In message http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist/m43290.html Dear Gilberto you make several points. This servant, again in the spirit of amity and affectionate dialogue will remember! And number them and make some replies. Please God you will look at them with a kindly gaze. Gilberto: Point 1] But Muslims aren't just resting with a part. Remember, we agreed. ...
[khazeh replying lovingly]: when I said “part of it” the “it” referred to the Baha’u’llah Passage that you appear to like. And by part I mean your appreciation of the first part of the three verse passage quoted at the end of this letter again [fully!] Gilberto Simpson Point 2] ALL that is vouchsafed to Baháu'lláh was indeed Mentioned before to Muhammad. ALL of it. There is nothing missing. [khazeh humbly]. There is naught missing but the rest of the verse from the Iqtidaaraat is not looked at by your good self so far. Gilberto Simpson Point 3] And in the Quran it says: We did not leave anything out of this Book, then all will be gathered before their Lord [for judgement]. (6:38) [khazeh kindly]. We did not leave anything out. Yes certainly dear brother. But using the same logic, the exact syllogism, the Jews said that the Holy Qur’an affirms most strongly that their Book [the Old Testament/the Tenakh/the Torah] had EVERYTHING COMPLETELY _ NOTHING WAS LEFT OUT OF THE TORAH. Therefore a fortiori [as they say in logic] people should stay with the Torah because the Qur’an affirms it was all there before. 006.154 YUSUFALI: Moreover, We gave Moses the Book, completing (Our favour) to those who would do right, AND EXPLAINING ALL THINGS IN DETAIL,- and a guide and a mercy, that they might believe in the meeting with their Lord. PICKTHAL: Again, We gave the Scripture unto Moses, COMPLETE for him who would do good, AN EXPLANATION OF ALL THINGS, A GUIDANCE AND A MERCY, that they might believe in the meeting with their Lord. SHAKIR: Again, WE GAVE THE BOOK TO MUSA TO COMPLETE (OUR BLESSINGS) ON HIM WHO WOULD DO GOOD (TO OTHERS), and making plain all things and a guidance and a mercy, so that they should believe in the meeting of their Lord. 154. Thumma atayna Moosa alkitaba tamaman AAala allathee ahsana watafseelan likulli shay-in wahudan warahmatan So the Text of the Qur’an says the Book of Moses was TAMAAM complete [nothing left out]. It repeats again in the same verse : The Book of Moses was TAFSEELAN LIKULLI SHA’IN = AN EXPLANATION OF ALL THINGS So this servant would say by this logic of quoting 6:38 they would go on to say look: we have priority and Our Book is complete. and so on… Remember dearest I am not arguing. I am just offering what I think are true insights … Gilberto Simpson Point 4] Maybe it's just me, but from my perspective, humanity's biggest problem isn't ignorance as much as forgetfulness. As human beings, to a large degree I think we know what we ought to be doing. We know we shouldn't steal and murder. We know we shouldn't exploit and take advantage of other people. We know we should try to get along better with our fellow man. We know we should be more generous and fight less. We know we shouldn't lie. What we need is to figure out how to do the things we already know we are supposed to be doing. And I'm not persuaded that we need a new revelation in order to accomplish that. http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist/m43290.html [khazeh] in reply to Point 4. The latest Revelation confirms the ethics of the past the reminding that the Comforter was to accomplish. I am a Bahai so with great affection, from my perspective [as you kindly mentioned your perspective above] this applies: Namely: ****Does not the very operation of the world-unifying forces that are at work in this age necessitate that He Who is the Bearer of the Message of God [Baha’u’llah] in this day should not only REAFFIRM that self-same exalted standard of individual conduct inculcated by the Prophets gone before Him, but embody in His appeal, to all governments and peoples, THE ESSENTIALS OF THAT SOCIAL CODE, THAT DIVINE ECONOMY, which must guide humanity's concerted efforts in establishing that all-embracing federation which is to signalize the advent of the Kingdom of God on this earth? (The Writings)**** Again in http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist/m43290.html you say Gilberto Point 5] *there are plenty of materials by Muslim awliya which give out details, and explanations, and go into the topics of the Quran with more and more depth.** [khazeh] replies lovingly: You seem to have a high regard for the Muslim Awliya [Saints/Holy Ones/Plural of Wali]. This is wonderful. But let me share with you something from one of these Awliyaas. Some would say the Noblest Highest Khaatam al Awliyaa [the Seal of all the Awliya] namely Ibn ‘Arabi. I have here on the shelf all his books have read them since 30 years. In his biggest book Futuuh.aat in the Chapter 366 He says: **after the disciples of the Mahdi are slain [martyred] Waah.idun minhum [One of them] yanzilu fee marj e ‘Akka One of them will arrive/descend to the precincts of ‘Akka [Acre]. Therein will be the “ma’dubat il Ilaahiyya” Therein will be the Divine Banquet unto which will be invited all birds, all animals, all kinds and kindreds*** Now I swear by the Revealer of the Holy Qur’an. When I first read this in a book written 800 years ago [by Ibn ‘Arabi] of course I wept tears of joy and knew that that Wali [Ibn ‘Arabi] was referring to the Coming of Baha’u’llah [Who arose to champion the Cause of the Bab [Mahdi] and Who came to ‘Akka [as a Prisoner and an Exile of the Ottoman Government of Sultan ‘Abdul ‘Aziz in August 1868 [derided, scorned, mocked, and hurt beyond imagination on the way to His Incarceration [with no verdure etc that I brought to your kind attention before]. In another section of His book he says the duration of the Mahdi’s Reign will be nine years. My humble point is that even the awliyaa spoke beautifully of this Day. I do not know what else to say but to give you my warmest greetings khazeh To say that the Holy Qur'an is totally divine revelation does not entail that it is the totality of Revelation Just as in the Christolgy I studied for many years to say that Jesus Christ is "totus Deus does not entail that He was totum Dei" . If the peoples of the world were to attain to the [Maqs.ud] purpose [aim, intention] of God they would not become veiled in the times of the Manifestation [z.uhur]. Thus although they recited the Book of God for years they did not attain a letter [h.arf] of its meanings [ma'aani].Thus... If it be said that all things [kull] were hidden and concealed [mastuur wa maknuun] in the Book of God, and, further, that in the Manifestation of the Point of Bayan [may the spirit of all being be His sacrifice!] the countenances of meanings [ma'aani] heretofore hidden in the chambers of divine Words [kalimaat] came forth from behind veils then this utterance is the indubitable truth [h.aqqun laa rayba fihi]. On the other hand If it be stated that in the past the meanings were mentioned in summary [ijmaal= abstract, summary, abridged, synopsis] and it is NOW that the Interpreter [mubayyin] and Expounder [mufas.s.il] has come this utterance is also true and no doubt attacheth thereunto. Finally if it be said that all that has appeared [z.aahir] in this New Wondrous Manifestation has not been there before [na-buudeh] and everything is a new [badee'] creation, this manner of utterance is also correct and accurate [sah.eeh. wa tamaam] for if the One True God [glorified be His Remembrance [Dhikr] speaks a Word- a Word which all peoples have been speaking from time immemorial nevertheless that Word is NEW were ye to ponder this theme in depth [tatafakkarun] ... Baha'u'llah Alwah-i-H.ad.rat-e-Baha'u'llah shaamil-e-Iqtidarat [Bombay 1893] pages 86-87. (provisional by this evanescent one) __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
