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Dear Rich, I, too, remember our meeting fondly and
likewise hope that this finds you and your family well. Let me add as a prefatory note that I’m
sure some people are wondering about why we are discussing this in such detail
on Bahai Studies. However, I think it is important to get all this straight to
help us understand the decisions made by Shoghi Effendi as well as the conduct
of Baha’is in the Third Reich. I’m sorry for not communicating
clearly. Let me try and clarify what I meant to say. I did not say, or mean to imply that the
Nazi government was not “duly constituted” because (a) Hitler only
got 37% of the vote in refusal to have the Communists join an
anti-Nazi coalition which could have prevented Hitler from coming to power. We
too have minority governments in What specifically makes Hitler’s
government not “duly constituted” is the fraudulent election of
March 5, 1933. Just prior to March 5 Hitler set the Reichstag Fire (Feb. 27,
1933 as an excuse to suppress the Social Democrats and Communists during the
election. Moreover, he had no legitimate authority to ban all political demonstrations
except by the Nazis or to use the SA to intimidate and arrest members of rival
parties. Nor, of course, did he have authority to set the Reichstag Fire (Feb. 27,
1933)! You write: “He already had the
government, so it was legally constituted. That the fact that he started
breaking laws after this to shore up his power doesn't change that.” Ian: It’s more complicated than that. Hitler took power *legally* in January 30, 1933, but took
power *illegally* with election he
called (Feb. 1, 1933) for March 5, 1933. The election itself was not “duly constituted”
(as shown previously) nor was the post-election Reichstag since Social
Democrats and Communists were forcibly and illegally prevented from taking
their seats. The government was also not duly constituted because it used
strong-arm tactics to force other smaller parties to approve giving Hitler the “Enabling
Laws.” These laws existed in the Weimar Constitution but were not
legitimately obtained by Hitler. Thus, I think the claim that the Nazis
government after (and even starting with) the March 5, 1933 election was not “duly
constituted.” In a variety of ways, the Nazis met the
Guardian’s criteria for not being “duly constituted” and he
acted wisely in disbanding the German NSA instead of co-operating with them.
Defying Hitler in this way entailed considerable –but unavoidable - risk
for German Baha’is. I’d be curious to know how many of the
men went into the German Wehrmacht, which was the one place a person could be
beyond the reach of the Gestapo, the SA or the SS. Best wishes, Ian Kluge Thus, under He became chancelor because the Nazi's held the
majority of seats in the Reichstag and he was the only one who could pull it
off. You yourself said this was all legal under the Weimar Laws. Hitler them proceeded to take over *illegally.* The Nazi’s set the Reichstag Fire (Feb. 27,
1933), blamed it on the Communists and got Hindenburg to give Hitler emergency
governing powers with which he intimidated his political enemies.
He then had another ‘election’ and got 44% (still not
50% even at this point) of the vote, used the Brown Shirts to prevent
socialists and communists who had been elected from taking their seats and
pressured the other parties to pass the “Enabling Laws” that gave
him absolute dictatorial power. He already had the government, so it was legally
constituted. That the fact that he started breaking laws after this to shore up
his power doesn't change that.
This doesn’t look “duly elected” to me. Nor just. Not to me either, but my definition of just and duly
elected are a little diferrent. I have no love for the Nazis. Two uncles of
mine were executed by them in Thessalonika for being in the underground and I'm
damned proud of them. I was just commenting on the Guardians stance and that he
disbanded the community rather than obey the dictates of a government that fit
his criteria as legitimate if heinous. __________________________________________________
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- RE: Just governments... Ian Kluge
- Re: Just governments... Popeyesays
- RE: Just governments... Ian Kluge
- Re: Just governments... Popeyesays
- Re: Just governments... Rich Ater
