But Gilberto,
As Baha'is, we recognize the Firm Handle ("urvat'ul vuthgha") of the Word of God, "the unerring balance." This is not something that can be "solved" outside of that, is it? If that were the case, then why would Baha'u'llah establish unerring proofs? Or am I looking at this from a position of "faith and not reason," again?
Barmak
Gilberto Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Gilberto Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 5/6/05, Sandra Chamberlain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:__________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
> Gilberto: <> Just in general, it seems very hard to get around
> the issue. Anytime you take a religious group and you want to
> define it, by definition that means setting limits as to who
> is in, and who is out. And unless you simply accept everyone
> who self-identifies, it seems like you would invariably (even
> if only implicitly) set up some criteria and draw the line in
> a way which excludes at least somebody from the group. <>
> Dear Gilberto,
> I would agree with you, that there are limitations placed on
> "membership" - similar restrictions apply if you are buying a
> condo or joining a golf club. Membership implies a
> willingness to work within a prescribed framework.
> Agree also, that there are individu! als who self-identify with
> a particular belief or group. I was a self-identified Baha'i
> for a period of several months before I was willing/confident
> enough to make a committment to the organizational framework.
> It's the choice of the individual to be included or not.
In the case of a club, there are often very specific and concrete
indicators which clearly identify you as a member (e.g. they don't
call security when you are on the premises for instance).
But in the case of belief systems things are less clear. For example,
Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons say they are Christian but they have
SEVERAL beliefs which go against at least some people's definitions of
Christianity. So if you are part of a group with millions of members
but your claim to a particular identity might not be recognized, what
does that mean? Whose definition do you follow?
So for example, I realize and appreciate (really I do) that from your
perspective the issue of who is or isn't Bahai is rather clear. But
there are also other people claiming to be Bahai who don't necessarily
meet your criteria. So implicitly or explicitly, you are choosing for
them (over their objections) that they are not Bahai.
Peace
GIlberto
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