Janine,
Sure that's a good example. It works in other directions as well.
Muslims tend to have certain "demographics", especially if you are
talking about Muslims living in Western countries. I've definitely had
conversations where people talk about "Muslims" but it would be more
useful or relevant to think about race and class or political power.
(For example, the rioting which happened in France in the past year.
There is clearly a lot of anger among French Muslim community but it
had more to do with racism and poverty than religion)
-Gilberto
On 5/11/06, janine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Dear Gilberto,
I agree with you that religion can be used to get people fighting with one
another whereas it is actually about other issues.
For example, in my native country a person who said he is Muslim killed
another man with a knife because this other man made a film in which he
ridiculed Islam.
The issue is not ridiculing Islam. The issue is that the guy who did it, who
was of ethnic origin but was born and raised in Holland, felt he was
powerless and had less opportunities than his fellow men, that materialism
is winning and deprives people of spiritual food, and felt that western
influences are governing and exploiting the people in the country of his
ancestors, breaking down society there.
Just like racism, fundamentalism is based on fear and wanting to be in
control. No religion condones people killing one another like Theo van Gogh
was killed.
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-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gilberto Simpson
Sent: 11 May 2006 06:55
To: Baha'i Studies
Subject: Re: question about Islam
On 5/10/06, Iskandar Hai, M.D. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tue, 9 May 2006, Gilberto Simpson wrote:
> > On 5/9/06, Iskandar Hai, M.D. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > No, that kind of democracy is just ludicrous. Keep it to yourself and
> > > enjoy it when Shi`ah kills Sunni in Iraq and Sunnis kill Shi`ahs there
as
> > > they have done it since the 7th century. And all in the name of
religion.
Gilberto:
> > If this is a religious issue (and not a political issue or a
> > cultural issue) then why do Sunnis and Shias kill each other in
> > Iraq but not on the southside of Chicago?
I:
> What has that got to do with the issue. There does not have to be a global
> wafare and killing between Sunni and Shi`ah. The sectarian violence and
> hatred between the Shi`ah and the Sunni Muslims is definitely religious
> and goes back 1400 years.
Sometimes conflicts which are really about other things, *look*
religious, but in reality something else is going on. For example the
violence in Northern Ireland *looked* like it was about religion but
is really about land and economics. You could say similar things about
the violence in Palestine between Jews and Muslims.
> No, it's not cultural or political. I can't
> understand why you are dismissing and minimizing the lethality of
> religious sectarian violence between Shi`ah and Sunni Islam...
I'm not dismissing the lethality. People are definitely dying.
and trying to
> explain it away as a non-religious issue. There are a number of reasons
> why Shi`ah/Sunni killing doesn't occur in Chicago.
Like?
> > [..]
> > > > Iskandar:
> > > > > I'm not talking about metaphysical statements. I'm talking about
real
> > > > > concrete actions by Muslim leaders, scholars, jurists, etc.,
throughout history.
> >
> > > > Gilberto:
> > > > And people generally take on those violent actions because of their
> > > > motivations. That's the fundamental issue. Promoting unity doesn't
> > > > eliminate the problem. It just will tend to promote uniformity and
> > > > oppression on a larger scale.
> >
> > Iskandar:
> > > And where do their motivations come from?
> >
> > Gilberto:
> > Greed is a big part of it.
Iskandar:
> What has greed got to do with whether you believe Omar was a usurper or
> not. The root cause of the sectarian violence goes back to what happened
> after the Prophet Muhammad passed away and succession became an issue.
Gilberto:
No. That's just a superficial excuse. No two human beings are going to
be in perfect agreement about everything. Disagreement is a part of
life. It is a part of having your own unique mind. People will always
disagree. About religion. About politics. About literature. About
sports teams. Anything. But that doesn't mean they are going to fight
about their differences.
I"m sunni but I don't have any particular hatred for Shia. But I'm not
one. And that's as far as it goes. If sunnis and shias in the middle
east or in India are having trouble living peacefully together, it's
not because their religion tells them to go kill each other. How do I
know this? Because I have the same religion they do.
-G
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