Hello Brolin, I showed your post to a few geek girls and asked them what advice they would give. I'm CC'ing the list with their (edited) responses because I have a hunch that there are more "Brolins" out there.
Ben _______________________________________________ Overall, my advice isn't profound - but simple. I would recommend he think about what things he likes that he can share with others. Surely there is some activity/event/gathering that he feels comfortable in - and surely there must be girls there. I am always amazed at the meetups that exist for all kinds of unusual interests. Generally, I feel (and have seen others) find it easiest to meet new people and open up when there is common ground. Amy __________________________________________________ I don't think I have any advice that is worth passing along to Brolin. He has Asperger's and will struggle with social interactions. It's not hopeless for him, but he needs to find a way to meet other women who have similar struggles as him. He needs to find someone who understands and admires his attention to details, for example. I think he probably already knows this, so I wouldn't have any new or different advice for him, unfortunately. I hope he is in therapy for his Asperger's and can learn to live on his own!! (That's step one. Girls and dating come after that.) I have a lot of sympathy for those on the autism spectrum because of my niece. Social interactions are so hard for them! Mary Beth __________________________________________________ [Commentary by Ben: I agree with MB that Brolin needs to find someone who admires the traits he has, but I don't think that it will necessarily be someone with similar struggles. It could be someone complementary, someone who will balance him. I know a few geek guys who have found that their soul mate is a spiritual, intuitive, earth-mother-type, well grounded in her body and emotions.] __________________________________________________ Wow. Two thoughts come to mind: 1) It sounds like he has no in-person friends. I think that you need to get the hang of friendship before you can have a romantic relationship. Also, once you have friends, some of them know geekgirls, and you can meet them that way. He might have good luck with local gaming groups or conventions (Comicon, Defcon, PAX, JavaOne...). 2) I'm not sure how well his Asperger's is being treated. That's going to be a prerequisite for a relationship, like hygiene. If he's always feeling overwhelmed and unable to make choices, there might be a medication that could help. Good luck to him. I realize it must have been very difficult for him to ask for help, and I hope he continues to try. Jina __________________________________________________ After reading Jina's email, it occurred to me that you probably could craft a nice email to him with some friendly advice. He definitely needs to be in treatment for his Asperger's. After a brief search on the internet, I found www.grasp.org which is geared towards adults on the autism spectrum. This site could help him find therapists or others who can help him. By sending his long email, Brolin has indicated that he needs help and that his life is not what he wants it to be. Getting treatment can help him live on his own and feel better about himself. And, getting better connected with support groups and adult autism networks, he might be able to meet a girl whom he could date. But, it's one step at a time for him. Treatment and support groups first, girls second. :) Mary Beth __________________________________________________ Hi Brolin, My friend Ben forwarded my your post, and I have many thoughts about it. Some are in direct response to questions you pose, and some are responses to what I perceive as the underlying context. If my perceptions are wrong, I apologize. Hopefully some of what I say will be useful to you. As a woman with a background in philosophy and computer science, I can definitely say that there are women who relate to your interests and personality. I am older than you, but there are women your age who love xkcd, and share your other interests as well. Are there as many women as there are men who overlap closely with your description? Unlikely, but that's not a problem. A good relationship is one where each person "gets" the other enough to appreciate them and relate to them, but where they can also learn from their partner's different interests and ways of thinking. So how do you meet women with whom you may be compatible? Well, it's a question of luck, but only in the sense that you make your own luck. On any given occasion when you try to meet someone, it may well not pan out, but the point is to increase the frequency of such encounters. Joining local groups which interest you, and attending local events is a good way to start. Online dating sites may be worth exploring as well, especially if you feel more comfortable expressing yourself via the keyboard. Of course, sooner or later you need to meet people face-to-face. In your post you said, "I am too shy and self-conscious in public." I suggest that instead you say (and think), "I am shy and self-conscious in public.", or "I would like to work on becoming less shy and self-conscious in public." It's just a statement of how you perceive your internal state when you are engaged in public interactions. It makes it more difficult to pursue interactions, but it does not make it impossible. When we think or know that we are strong in some areas and weak in others, it is tempting to go with our strengths and avoid our weaknesses. That tends to just aggravate our weaknesses. We do not have to be great at something in order to participate. I have a friend who is 5'4" and loves playing basketball. She's never going to be the best, she's never going to dunk, but that doesn't mean that she doesn't get to play the game. Almost everyone experiences some shyness and self-consciousness with public social interactions, it comes with the territory. I recognize that severe shyness feels different than mild shyness and that it is unpleasant and difficult. My point is, it is not insurmountable. Moreover, some shyness and social discomfort can be a good thing. People who seem very confident and smooth usually come off as suspicious. In my experience, people with decent bullshit detectors have no interest in people who are smooth. Rather, they are attracted to people who are genuine. I would also suggest reading one or two of the books produced by John Gottman's group at the University of Washington. Unlike many books on relationships and communication, their books are actually based on well designed empirical studies. They provide many important insights on how to communicate effectively in all sorts of relationships. I like your use of the phrase "priority inversion". I've often suffered from that myself, and know lots of other people who do as well. When it comes to taking care of yourself (exercising, eating well, getting good sleep, getting out and meeting people), success has almost nothing to do with willpower. Rather, it's all about establishing habits. Good habits take conscious decision making out of the process, because conscious decision making is where we tend to get overwhelmed and undermined. When establishing a new habit, keep it small at the beginning. For the first couple of weeks, it's not about seeing how much you can do, it's about ingraining the habit. Think it would be no problem to start walking a mile a day? Commit to walking around the block for two weeks. Want to eat better? Don't make it dependent on doing a ton of research first -- begin by making one small change that you already know you should make. Research in parallel as you continue to make changes. Oh, and I love computers as much as anyone, but I've never seen anyone who ends up being happy when they spend nearly all their time in front of one. Give yourself a break. Take care of yourself. Think about getting a massage once in a while -- human touch can be very restorative and grounding. Seriously consider meditating. Meditation has been shown to have many benefits, from improving mood to improving focus. Five minutes a day could make a big difference. Some of my suggestions may seem random, but I hope at least some of it is relevant. I wish you the best of luck! Melissa __________________________________________________ Summary. There's a lot of good advice there, but, if I may take the liberty of mangling the geek girls' words, I think the major points are: Treatment first, girls second. Practice friendships. Join a meetup within your comfort zone. The more social interactions you have, the greater your chance of success. Fight priority inversion with habits. Network with other autism spectrum adults, e.g., grasp.org. Look for someone who likes you, not is exactly like you. (To which I add, Sometimes men are from Vulcan and women are from Betazed.) Read John Gottman's books. Ground yourself with meditation and human physical touch. --Ben On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 1:12 PM, Brolin Empey <bro...@brolin.be> wrote: > Hello list, > > Like most of the members of this list (AFAICT from the first names I > recognise as sex/gender-specific), I am male. I am 22 and still live with > my parents. I have never lived away from my parents. I am planning to hire > a support worker to help me live away from my parents (I have another > meeting later today) because I continue to indefinitely defer trying to live > away from my parents. I named my form of procrastination “priority > inversion” because what is, in practical terms, my lowest priority, becomes > my highest priority. For example, I choose to spend my free time playing > with my computers, including my FreeRunner, instead of learning about human > biology and/or nutrition, which will affect me every day of my life, and at > least trying to live away from my parents. When I say I play with my > computers, I do not mean gaming: I almost never play games anymore. Even > when I decide I want to play a game again, I spend all of my time reading > about games, viewing screenshots and videos, and trying to decide which of > the endless games I should play (or rather, obtain if I do not already have > a copy and make work on my PC) instead of actually playing a game. I feel > like I am always overwhelmed and/or overloaded with information and > stimulation in the Too Much Information Age. I always feel like the NET > Effect is that there is Never Enough Time because time flies faster than > ever because I am always overthinking, overwhelmed with overchoice, etc. I > recognise my mind is a word and pattern recognition engine, which is > constantly adding new stimulations/experiences to its database. I have > Asperger’s Syndrome, but can function much better, at least in terms of > interacting with people in person, than when I was in high school, for > example. I used to often feel like I had social anxiety disorder because I > would get so anxious and/or worried even when calling someone on the phone > (on my parents’s landline because I did not have a cell phone until 2008) > that I could not speak clearly enough for the person on the other end to > understand me, so I would always have to repeat myself at least once for > every turn of the conversation. I am a purist and have been called the most > pedantic person in the world by Jamie Zawinski, of Lucid Emacs/XEmacs and > Netscape/Mozilla fame. :) Imprecise usage and redundancy bothers me even if > know what is meant from the context. For example, I am bothered by people > mentioning a “standard” transmission in a vehicle (it is a manual > transmission. Standard depends on the vehicle. Automatic is standard for > some vehicles.), calling an LCD monitor (a flat panel) a “flat screen” > (high-end CRTs have flat glass too!), common redundancies, such as PIN > number, ATM machine, LCD display, people who assume all cars use crappy > gasoline engines and use fuel-specific terms, such as gas station (it is a > service station), gas tank (it is a fuel tank), gas pedal (it is an > accellerator), gas pump (I have used a diesel pump at Shell that told me to > “select octane” instead of “select ctane” (sp?) or “select fuel grade”. My > car has a diesel, not gasoline, engine. I have been highly influenced by my > father, Brian Empey. Brian is a Professional Engineer (Electrical > Engineering). He founded Technical Solutions Inc. (Techsol) in 1996 with > his second wife (my step-mom), Karen Empey (nee Schellenberg). Techsol is > an embedded computer hardware company specialising in Linux on ARM > architecture. I am very fortunate to be able to work at Techsol. I am a > Linux + Windows System Administrator/Web master/IT person/general computer > person. I think my responsibiles are more important than my title(s). I > know I am very dependent on my parents, but at least I own my own car (which > I bought from my dad), have a Class 7 driver’s licence (the Novice stage of > the Graduated Licensing Program in British Columbia, Canada. I live in the > Lower Mainland of British Columbia, Canada), my own credit union account, > debit (Interac) card, MasterCard credit card, personal cheques (not > checks!), which I almost never use (I think I have written a total of 3 > cheques in my life), cell phones (Nokia 6103b + FreeRunner), PayPal account, > domain names (brolin.be + others), Virtual Private Server (VPS), which hosts > my personal Web site, PCs and peripherals, far too many original/boxed PC > games, which I almost never play anymore, bicycle, ... I am definitely a > relatively rich/wealthy person in Canada and extremely wealthy compared to > less fortunate people in both developed and developing countries. I know I > should not complain because I am very fortunate; I know my life could > always be much worse, even if I lack much first-hand experience of how much > worse it could be. > > Anyway, enough rambling. I need to finally address the Subject of this > message (I hope at least 1 person actually read this far!). How/where can I > meet a female companion in person with similar interests and personality? > Someone who can appreciate my word associations, puns, sexual innuendo, > jokes, purism, etc.? Someone who can relate to and understand the computer > humour in xkcd comics (I do not understand a lot of the math used in xkcd, > but I still know relatively more about math than non-technical people > because of my interest in computing and computer programming), someone who > analyses everything as much as I do, someone who is interested by books such > as Consciousness Explained by Daniel C. Dennet, (personal) computing > history, computer art scenes such as the demoscene, The Scene (warez groups, > etc. even though I no longer use much unlicensed software because I prefer > to support Free Software projects instead of using unlicensed proprietary > software), computer music (module music, chiptunes). > > I have a tendency to isolate myself from face-to-face contact with my peers, > even though I know meeting people requires being in the same place as them. > I have few friends (well, at least peers) I know in person. I choose to > spend most of my free time at home, either alone or with my parents, instead > of trying to meet new people in person. I am too shy and self-conscious in > public. > > Can anyone relate to me? What should I do? I know I have volunteered a lot > of personal information in this post, but much of it is already publicly > accessible for those who know my real/legal name and know how to use tools > such as Google Search. I have been considering writing a post like this for > months (maybe already >1 year), but I ended up stopping writing early > because I felt uncomfortable about volunteering so much personal > information. What do I have to lose, though? I need to stop being so > self-conscious. > > Why are most of the peers with whom I can relate well male? Do females have > the same problem? Are there even any females reading this? :) > > Thank you for reading this far! > > Brolin :) > > PS: As you can probably tell, I prefer to write properly (with correct > grammar, spelling, punctuation, capitalisation, typographical quotation > marks and em dashes instead of ASCII typewriter quotation marks and ASCII > approximations of em dashes, etc.), even in informal contexts and for SMS. > I also prefer to say SMS instead of “text message”, but you could probably > have guessed that from my previous examples of my purism. I also prefer > logical, simple, and unambiguous ISO 8601 (e.g., today is 2009-09-10 13:37 > ;)) international standard date and time notation, especially instead of the > illogical 12h time notation, which many people insist on using in fuzzy > and/or ambiguous ways, such as “quarter to one” instead of “12:45” (24h). I > know HH:MM (00:00 – 23:59) can be interpreted as ambiguous 12h when the hour > is <= 12, but I do not like to use HHMM (without the separator (the colon)) > because I prefer to separate the components of the time of day. I > originally used an ASCII minus character (‘-’) as a range separator, but I > decided I should use gucharmap to copy and paste a proper en dash because > otherwise I would be hypocritical for using proper em dashes but using an > ASCII approximation instead of a proper en dash because I am too lazy to use > gucharmap. (fail) > > PPS: As you may have noticed, I use the same convention as the C programming > language for usage of single and double quotation marks. C uses only ASCII > characters, though; I use both ASCII and Unicode (yes, I know Unicode > includes ASCII) for e.g., typographical quotation marks and dashes. > > PPPS: I also highly prefer communities such as this mailing list, where > posters use their real/legal names and are consequently accountable for > their actions (messages) and write properly instead of e.g., Web bulletin > boards frequented by the ADD (Attention Deficit Disorder), “tl; dr” (“too > long; didn’t read”) crowd, most of whom use nicknames instead of their > real/legal names. > > -- > Sometimes I forget how to do small talk: <http://xkcd.com/222/> > > “If you have to ask why, you’re not a member of the intended audience.” — > Bob Zimbinski, <http://webpages.mr.net/bobz/ttyquake/> > > _______________________________________________ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community