Hello Helge, I have completely rewritten the man pages for cron in Docbook XML format, which allows us to use Docbook's markup to declare the role of words more precisely.
One casuality is that your bug report will no longer remain valid, and that there will be more to do for translators probably. However Docbook XML sources should be more stable in the future, and I checked thoroughly than the generated man pages contain the same paragraphs as previously, albeit with different indentations, and also different emphasis schemes. The next package upload will close the present bug report, please feel free to reopen it. Best regards, Georges. Helge Kreutzmann a écrit : > Hello Georges, > Am Mon, Mar 04, 2024 at 11:47:03AM +0100 schrieb Georges Khaznadar: > > Helge Kreutzmann a écrit : > > > > > > > Secondly we translators see the manpages in the neutral po format, > > > > > i.e. converted and harmonized, but not the original source (be it man, > > > > > groff, xml or other). So we cannot provide a true patch (where > > > > > possible), but only an approximation which you need to convert into > > > > > your source format. > > > > > > > > The original format for Debian's manpages regarding cron is groff. > > > > Would the translators' work become easier if the manpages were rewritten > > in some higher-level language than groff? I must admit that I am not at > > ease with groff sources, and that I use weird hacks when modifying such > > or such part of a manpage when some feature of cron or crontab is > > changed. > > Simple answer: No. > > In the end, man pages are transformed into groff and this is what we > get, and our toolchain po4a handles it quite nicely. Actually, > translators do not see groff at all, but some pseudo language they are > familiar with. (Thats why I had to double check my groff proposals, I > hardly see groff except when i discuss the issues in the man pages of > groff themselves …) > > > The source in groff format often contains very short lines, where more > > context would be necessary to grasp the sense. > > > > So, please tell me whether it would be useful to rewrite the three > > manpages in XML format? > > From my POV it is not necessary. As said earlier, I think the context > is sufficient, translators can always build the entire (translated) > file to check and shorter paragraphs are easier to handle and reuse. > > > This would mean writing sensible paragraphs, with lines of seventy or > > more characters, containing simple text and elements marked by tags like > > <command></command> or <replaceable class="option"></replaceable>, which > > convey more sense than the bare bold/italics directives available in > > groff. > > In the end, this is up to you and we translators follow suite. Please > note, howver, that not all translations are maintained. Currently we > have (partial) translations for ko, fr, pl, fi, ro, de and id. There > are no active translators for ko, fi and id, and I'm not sure how fast > the translators for fr and pl will pick it up. > > So from my POV I would suggest to keep them as is, unless the pain is > really large or you intend to add/update lots of content. > > > > That's usual, but po4a transforms this in a more friendly format for > > > us translators. > > > > Here is what I understood so far, from the first e-mail you sent me > > yesterday, and from the enlightenments provided by the second one: > > > > Each report chunk is divided in two parts, a list of issues and a > > context string, which I describe below in some wild meta-language > > using square brackets: > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Man page: [source file] > > Issue #n: [incorrect format] → [fixed format] > > ... > > > > "[some context, extracted by po4a from the source file]" > > "..." > > -- > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Please can you confirm or infirm that the interpretation above can be > > trusted? > > Yes, this is 100% correct. > > > > I think most of the report boils down that you update the patches by > > > using .B instead of .I or sometimes .BI > > > > This is a particular consequence of a more general guideline, to follow > > recommendations provided by `man man-pages`. I would feel more at ease > > if this compliance was ensured by an automated process fed by a source > > file with high-level syntactic markup. > > Yes, I see your point. And if you were to write this from scratch, I > would suggest doing so. > > > > P.S. And since there is probably little changes in cron nowadays, most > > > likely few if none further reports from my side… > > > > I began to maintain cron two years ago, and lowered the bug report count > > by approximately one half (regarding reports in bugs.debian.org). Some > > reports entailed creating new features, and modifying the manuals > > accordingly. I fear that the fifty remaining bug reports will slowly, > > but surely involve future changes in man pages, so rewriting them in a > > high-level language would probably make future changes more consistent. > > Ok, I see. Then my points from above a moot, if changes are planned or > underway at many places. > > Thanks for handling cron without a responsive upstream! > > > Please can you consider this proposition? I would rewrite an XML source > > for the manpage crontab.1, and send it; then you run your tools > > (probably po4a), and send me a feedback to tell me whether I introduced > > more inconsistencies than the count of fixes. > > No need to do so. Once you have the man pages ready (and I mean the > man pages, not the XML sources) simply ship them. Of course, if you > want I can quickly glance over them to fix obvious oversights, for > this I don't need to involve po4a at all. > > However, please note that I'm rather busy with real life atm, at least > through easter. I might perform quick checks if time permits, but > larger issues need to be postponed. > > Greetings > > Helge > > -- > Dr. Helge Kreutzmann deb...@helgefjell.de > Dipl.-Phys. http://www.helgefjell.de/debian.php > 64bit GNU powered gpg signed mail preferred > Help keep free software "libre": http://www.ffii.de/ -- Georges KHAZNADAR et Jocelyne FOURNIER 22 rue des mouettes, 59240 Dunkerque France. Téléphone +33 (0)3 28 29 17 70
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