On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 03:02:13PM +0400, vita...@yourcmc.ru wrote:
> >QR codes is optional
> >Built-in HTTP server is optional
> >
> >Binary logging - yeah, it logs stuff. Calling logging
> >functionality in a
> >program which is meant to log things is a bit much.
>
> It's not just "calling logging functionality", it's "running an own
> logging daemon" that supports a lot of other things. "calling
> logging functionality" is syslog(3) or maybe even printf(3) :))) and
> it should be enough for software that just "logs stuff". :)
But all those other things are optional.
You mention e.g. "maybe even printf(3)": Loads of desktop software
prints error output. Which is then pretty hidden from any user. Unless
you know about ~/.xsession-errors and the various other files. The
journal allows (with some work) to log this output and identify which
application generated those messages and do this quickly. This across
desktops, without duplicating code across desktops.
So you could have a GUI which shows you the warnings/errors/etc of
"Firefox" / Iceweasel. Without having to know what firefox-bin and so on
means.
> >You cannot separate it, if you look at status output of a service it'll
> >use the journal to give you useful output. Splitting things has
> >sideeffects. If the gain is uncertain of vague ("I don't like it" /
> >"UNIX philosophy"), then IMO time to trust the package maintainer.
>
> Of course it has side effects! That's why people call it monolithic
> and that's why it needs some decoupling. Do you agree that a modular
> program is generally better than a non-modular one?
That's very vague statement to make. It is never "modular" is better or
worse than "non-modular". E.g. Linux kernel is monolithic, micro kernel
might be more modular. Practically: Linux has modules.
Other example:
$ wget http://packages.debian.org/wheezy/amd64/coreutils/filelist -O- | grep
bin -c
102
This "coreutils" package has 102 binaries. Is it modular? According to
you, no! Try splitting this up into subpackages. What is the gain?
> And it seems I'm not the only one who doesn't like it! And I'm sure
> that at least 50% of swear words addressed to systemd could be
> stopped at once if the journal was made ALSO optional. So why not
> just do it?...
People will not like and complain no matter. It is better to make
informed judgements than to respond purely on emotional responses.
Making a journal optional has a tradeoff. It's not free. Try splitting
coreutils up into 5 separate subpackages to get an impression of such
tradeoffs.
--
Regards,
Olav
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