Why do those pioneers need a place outside of the ASF to do that? If they do need a place outside the ASF why does it need an Apache logo on it?
-----Original Message----- From: Lei Chang [mailto:chang.lei...@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 2:17 AM To: dev@community.apache.org Cc: nic...@hedhman.org Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community +1 for a formal community project in China. There are some experiences I can share when some apache committers in China are developing the community for Apache HAWQ (in incubation). A wechat group was created, and there are many people who are very active at ask questions and contributing ideas. This is a kind of very difficult to happen with some Chinese native guys discussing in English. There are about 5 million college graduates each year in China, and i think there is a great potential to increase the number of contributors from Apache community in China. Developing an Apache community in China needs some pioneers to get together, discuss, directs and organize the meetups, conferences. It would be very helpful to have a formal Apache community project set up to work on this. Cheers Lei On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 5:58 PM, Ted Liu <t...@microsoft.com> wrote: > Hi Niclas, > > It'd be appreciated an open and constructive discussion can be formed > at ASF instead of labeling or stereotyping. The ask of forming of a > community, group or alike in China comes from the grass-root idea and > action because there are strong demands here. Otherwise nobody would > care and nobody could be instructed or directed. That’s the reason why > a group of Chinese ASF members, PMC members, committers, contributors, > etc., want to work together voluntarily to change the status quo by > bridging the Chinese talents and good projects to/from ASF. The > motivation and enablement of the local community/group will be mainly > from the experienced Chinese ASF members, committers and contributors, > who people will trust, instead of any individual new to ASF. > > Talking about the language barrier, you should already know how > difficult it is to learn Chinese after living 4+ years in Shanghai. > One recent example is that literally no one from the Apache Fans > Wechat social group > (360 people now) responded to your proposal, in English, to hold a > technical meetup in Shanghai. Your ASF status and the fact of your > location in Shanghai do not automatically translate into trust and > effective communication to enable and motivate people's actions. The > wait of a good machine translation is an unknown that younger > generation contributors would not tolerate. > > The more challenging part is the culture differences where the sense > of community, governance, contribution and the Apache Way are still at > infant stage in China. There are more than enough good codes and > events (conferences, meetups, etc.) in China. The real blockers are > language and non-Apache-Way culture where the proposed China > community/group can contribute. > > > Ted > > -----Original Message----- > From: Niclas Hedhman [mailto:hedh...@gmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 3:02 PM > To: dev@community.apache.org > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache > China Community > > Ted, > 2 things... > > 1. There were Apache Roadshows in Shanghai in 2010 and 2011. > > 2. I am glad to see your enthusiasm of forming/creating organization. > But the ASF and many other open source projects are not > command&control driven top-down structures. So, there is very little > "need" for "creation of communities". They either form, or they don't. > > I was happy to see that the younger generation at the Roadshow in > Beijing grasped that idea very well, whereas the somewhat older > generation had a more top-down approach, of wanting to build it like a > company, like a government or a religious organization. I hope that > you can appreciate the difference and channel your enthusiasm slightly > differently. > > Like you, I think language barrier is currently a big barrier, but I > have first hand witnessed the improvements in online translation > services in the past few years. Enormous improvement. Perhaps we are > soon at a stage where this can be an additional tool to bridge this gap. > > My suggestions are towards localized meetups, where discussion, > hacking, presentations are conducted, by the participants, for the > participants, a peer-to-peer environment. Apache doesn't need to be > formally involved in this, but I am sure many Apache contributors > would be happy to participate, as peers, in such events/clubs. And I > am convinced this will spin off both projects as well as dieect contribution > to ASF and other projects. > > Be an igniter, not a driver. Ignite many small efforts, instead of > single big one. > > Keep up the positive work. > > Niclas > > On Nov 21, 2015 13:18, "Ted Liu" <t...@microsoft.com> wrote: > > > Hi Apache Community Development PMC, > > > > Wish to get some advices on how to form a community of Apache fans > > in China. Would a new China-specific project at the ComDev be possible? > > Please see the background and thoughts outlined below. > > > > Apache projects and technologies have been widely adopted in China, > > such as Alibaba, Tencent, many enterprises, academic and public services. > > However, there has been little engagement between ASF and > > communities and enterprises in China. We, at KAIYUANSHE > > (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.kaiyuanshe.o > > rg > > &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef4 > > 08 > > d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=c9Ihr4CJ2iFC > > sX > > asJ0NpZBeqxTGgpQ638b2fQFrfo1Y%3d< > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww. > > ka > > iyuanshe.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c23 > > 00 > > 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata= > > KN IsmJKqH2jG993HWWcVyKGZluqQVmuBHqxi7RC1YeM%3d>, the first > > ground-up open source alliance chartered to promote open source > > governance and technologies in China and Asia with over 50 community > > and enterprise members now) wish to bridge the gaps between the > > leading international > OSS communities, like ASF, and communities and enterprises in China. > The last Apache roadshow was on 2009 in Shanghai. We, KAIYUANSHE, > thought it'd be good to reboot the ASF engagement through another roadshow in > China. > > > > The Apache Roadshow 2015 - China with KAIYUANSHE was organized by > > KAIYUANSHE and successfully held on Oct. 24-25 in Beijing with ASF's > > community sponsorship and keynoters support, i.e. Brett Porter, > > David Nalley, Niclas Hedhman, J. Aaron Farr and Jason Dai. Please > > see more roadshow details here. > > > > - ASF "Foundation" blog > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.ap > > ac > > he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c23 > > 00 > > 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata= > > m1 ntBhqGqxvgjfBnautwrBf1oKnIc6dyi6j31fjP6xo%3d< > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.ap > > ac > > he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b > > 8a > > 314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata= > > BX 9JYQC1f13QXPZwKSGBm6%2bwC2D%2fn1%2bcOoq3rIQTwsw%3d > > > > > - @TheASF Twitter feed > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ftwi > > tt > > er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40 > > 06 > > 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86 > > f1 > > 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=qdet9%2bbJFQOho188838TnlA09W09ikWU37C > > Wt > > EOXwqg%3d< > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ftwi > > tt > > er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40 > > 06 > > 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86 > > f1 > > 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=l6exPHzOHmI56%2bicv2MCtaEPkCHpdC7CWhd > > X0 > > GFRwPs%3d > > > > > - annou...@apache.org<mailto:annou...@apache.org> (and archives) > > - ASF dedicated media/analyst list > > - > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fapac > > he > > .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c2300844 > > 57 > > b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=eH1M4 > > gu 2moPKLElh97xM7CgxgSEbM9O3JZDqk1AxfEU%3d< > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fapac > > he > > .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314 > > f8 > > 5dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=F1DdE > > AF N4EWnlKMlYZkPfa2izrtPwulToBHZcpf%2b0O4%3d> > > home page > > > > After the roadshow, we have received tremendous requests to form a > > China community to keep engaging with 5000+ audience who attended > > this roadshow and tens of thousands people who did not have time or > > were unaware of the events. So far, there already are many > > volunteers, including Apache members, PMC members, committers, > > contributors, developers and users, who are willing to join the > > China community steering committee and working groups to help grow > > the talents, projects and community in China and bridge between ASF > > and the fans in > China following the Apache way. > > > > Any feedback or advice on how to form a community of Apache fans in > > China or how to form a new China-specific project at the ComDev > > would be greatly appreciated. > > > > > > Ted Liu > > Co-organizer of the Apache Roadshow 2015 - China Co-founding member > > of KAIYUANSHE > > >
