+1 for JFDI I am generally not supportive of positive discrimination. But I recognize that I can afford not to be.
As Shane says it's irrelevant what I think unless I'm going to put effort into an alternative (remember a -1 around here means you object and will work on a better alternative). Feel free to force the naysayers to put effort into "fixing" what they consider to be broken about a positive discrimination approach. I say this, not just because it's the Apache Way, but also because of a day job experience... At work we had a period of what I consider positive discrimination. I was really pissed off at first. I felt it was holding me back (wrongly, but that's what it felt like). Guess what happened... I woke up one day and realized what I was experiencing was discrimination. Discrimination of the sort minorities at work were feeling. I felt there were barriers, even if they were only social ones that could be torn down wiith effort. That was one surprisingly effective lesson! Today at work every employee has a required D&I commitment. We get to choose what we do, but we have to show some effect in the industry. The change I've seen at work is amazing. My point is, I've learned that while I object to positive discrimination for (IMHO) really good reasons there are even better reasons why a period of it can help. I'm not going to (intentionally) actively discriminate for or against anyone. But I will protect your right, as an individual, to do so as long as you protect my right to help you achieve the right balance in our broader communities by stamping out the existence of any discrimination (positive or negative). Community over code Ross Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36> ________________________________ From: Shane Curcuru <a...@shanecurcuru.org> Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2019 8:43:08 AM To: dev@community.apache.org Subject: Building and Sustaining Inclusive Communities (was: on "meritocracy") Joan Touzet wrote on 3/30/19 12:52 AM: ...snip... > Precisely the point. I'm in favour of this, though I know others are > actively against it. I talked about this at length during my > ApacheCon 2018 talk, proposing options that are well thought-out and > fair, drawing from a wide variety of sources; I encourage you to > listen to the full recording and read my slides before passing > judgement. For the benefit of list readers: https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fspeakerdeck.com%2Fwohali%2Fbuilding-and-sustaining-inclusive-communities%3Fslide%3D10&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cda7e74db44914717e68b08d6b52670f4%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636895574032505781&sdata=1W5l6a9knggZlSKmHn1Hepx5p0edk1jIq0jlhNkTcNw%3D&reserved=0 https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ffeathercast.apache.org%2F2018%2F09%2F29%2Fbuilding-and-sustaining-inclusive-communities-joan-touzet%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cda7e74db44914717e68b08d6b52670f4%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636895574032505781&sdata=86hnw2%2B2jN5RZ2wMj78x7K%2BgX7vS5FZ2Yvgm%2B5%2B4X5s%3D&reserved=0 ...snip... > Again as Rich says, there's explicit approval to proceed with a D&I > initiative already, from both the Board and the President. People like > Naomi and I have been through the "prove it to me" request many times > over, and I'm tired of responding to this particular email. There's not even a need for explicit approval for volunteers here to spend their own time finding a space to work, and building Apache 2.0 licensed content anywhere on the ComDev website, at upcoming ApacheCons, or within their own Apache projects. I'm excited to see several dedicated people showing up in this thread, and once we have a new space for the ideas Naomi and Gris and others want to work on, I'll join. ---- But this thread does show an unfortunate classic meta-issue in many broad volunteer-run communities: people not actively working on a specific issue bringing sufficient tangential discussion, questions, and vague opposition to effectively kill new work on that issue. A situation that's happened to me personally with saddening regularity: I come up with a new idea to improve a process or document, and ask for feedback. Some of the feedback asks "why are we bothering with this" or "I think that's wrong because X", or merely asks clarifying questions / requests for more additional data, or or or... and often ends up being an endless game of "fetch me a rock". After attempting to answer a half-dozen of these questions - many tangential or merely expressing opposition *without providing useful alternatives*, I simply run out of volunteer energy and give up on the idea completely, and I find some other place to spend my time. The opposition of just a couple of people spending the time to keep asking for clarifications can often turn into a de facto veto for all sorts of new ideas. Apache communities work better when people who think a new idea is [dumb | annoying | not useful | whatever ] simply raise the general concern once, but otherwise get out of the way. We're all volunteers; we all have opinions; we all have things we want to work on in our different communities. We can respectfully say we don't like some new idea, but it's not up to any of us to stop other volunteers from doing that new idea that they're passionate about. Even better: when you don't like a new idea, come up with a better idea, and volunteer your own time in a new thread to productively work on it. ---- Bonus link, that I hadn't seen before but I really like the *explanations* behind this organization's social rules: https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.recurse.com%2Fsocial-rules&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cda7e74db44914717e68b08d6b52670f4%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636895574032505781&sdata=Xy5eCAcoRR02Gz%2BUZsb1emh%2Bb9CaUViHzhB%2FbSB8oho%3D&reserved=0 -- - Shane ComDev PMC & Member The Apache Software Foundation --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
