+1, The dark mode looks very cool.
Best, Ron Matthias Pohl <matthias.p...@aiven.io.invalid> 于2023年7月20日周四 15:45写道： > I think Martijn and Markos brought up a few good points: > > - We shouldn't degrade the accessibility but ideally improve it as part of > the redesign. The current proposal doesn't look like we're doing changes in > a way that it lowers the accessibility (considering that the menu structure > stays the same and there are no plans to replace text with images). But > nonetheless, it would be good to have this topic explicitly covered in the > FLIP. > > - I see Markos' concern about the white vs black background (Flink > documentation vs Flink website): Does it make a big difference to change to > a white background design? The switch to dark mode could happen after a > similar (or the same) theme is supported by the documentation. Or are there > other reasons why the dark background is favorable? > > Best, > Matthias > > On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 12:28 PM Markos Sfikas > <markos.sfi...@aiven.io.invalid> wrote: > > > +1 Thanks for proposing this FLIP, Deepthi. > > > > The designs on FLIP-333 [1] look fresh and modern and I feel they achieve > > the goal in general. > > > > A couple of suggestions from my side could be the following: > > > > [a] Assuming that no changes are implemented to the Flink documentation, > I > > would like to see a visual with a 'white background' instead of the 'dark > > mode'. This is primarily for two reasons: Firstly, it provides a more > > consistent experience for the website visitor going from the home page to > > the documentation (instead of switching from dark to white mode on the > > website) and secondly, from an accessibility and inclusivity perspective > > that was mentioned earlier, we should give the option to either switch > > between dark and white mode or have something that is universally easy to > > read and consume (not everyone is comfortable reading white text on dark > > background). > > > > [b] Regarding structuring the home page, right now the Flink website has > > use cases blending with what seems to be Flink's 'technical > > characteristics' (i.e. the sections that talk about 'Guaranteed > > correctness', 'Layered APIs', 'Operational Focus', etc.). As someone new > to > > Flink and considering using the technology, I would like to understand > > firstly the use cases and secondly dive into the characteristics that > make > > Flink stand out. I would suggest having one 'Use Cases' section above the > > 'technical characteristics' to have a separation between the two and > easily > > navigate to the Flink use cases pages [2] directly from this section.\ > > > > Thank you > > Markos > > > > [1] > > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLINK/FLIP-333%3A+Redesign+Apache+Flink+website > > [2] https://flink.apache.org/use-cases/ > > > > On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 10:46 AM Martijn Visser < > martijnvis...@apache.org> > > wrote: > > > > > +0. I think it has to grow on me. A couple of things from my end: > > > > > > - Have we evaluated if these new designs are an improvement on W3C's > > > Accessibility, Usability & Inclusion? [1]. It is something that the ASF > > > rightfully emphasises. > > > - "there is general consensus in the community that the Flink > > documentation > > > is very well-organized and easily searchable." -> That's actually not > the > > > case, there are numerous FLIPs on this topic [2] [3] which haven't been > > > concluded/implemented. > > > - I don't think we should put the links to the Github repo and the blog > > > posts in the footer: these are some of the most read/visited links. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Martijn > > > > > > [1] > > https://www.w3.org/WAI/fundamentals/accessibility-usability-inclusion/ > > > [2] > > > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=127405685 > > > [3] > > > > > > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLINK/FLIP-42%3A+Rework+Flink+Documentation > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jul 17, 2023 at 2:31 PM Maximilian Michels <m...@apache.org> > > wrote: > > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jul 17, 2023 at 10:45 AM Chesnay Schepler < > ches...@apache.org> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > > > > > On 16/07/2023 08:10, Mohan, Deepthi wrote: > > > > > > @Chesnay > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for your feedback. > > > > > > > > > > > > An important takeaway from the previous discussion [1] and your > > > > feedback was to keep the design and text/diagram changes separate as > > each > > > > change for text and diagrams likely require deeper discussion. > > Therefore, > > > > as a first step I am proposing only UX changes with minimal text > > changes > > > > for the pages mentioned in the FLIP. > > > > > > > > > > > > The feedback we received from customers cover both aesthetics and > > > > functional aspects of the website. Note that most feedback is focused > > > only > > > > on the main Flink website [2]. > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) New customers who are considering Flink have said about the > > > website > > > > “there is a lot going on”, “looks too complicated”, “I am not sure > > *why* > > > I > > > > should use this" and similar feedback. The proposed redesign in this > > FLIP > > > > helps partially address this category of feedback, but we may need to > > > make > > > > the use cases and value proposition “pop” more than we have currently > > > > proposed in the redesign. I’d like to get the community’s thoughts on > > > this. > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) On the look and feel of the website, I’ve already shared > > feedback > > > > prior that I am repeating here: “like a wiki page thrown together by > > > > developers.” Customers also point out other related Apache project > > > > websites: [3] and [4] as having “modern” user design. The proposed > > > redesign > > > > in this FLIP will help address this feedback. Modernizing the look > and > > > feel > > > > of the website will appeal to customers who are used to what they > > > encounter > > > > on other contemporary websites. > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) New and existing Flink developers have said “I am not sure > what > > > the > > > > diagram is supposed to depict” - referencing the main diagram on [2] > > and > > > > have said that the website lacks useful graphics and colors. Apart > from > > > > removing the diagram on the main page [2], the current FLIP does > > propose > > > > major changes to diagrams in the rest of website and we can discuss > > them > > > > separately as they become available. I’d like to keep the FLIP > focused > > > only > > > > on the website redesign. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ultimately, to Chesnay’s point in the earlier discussion in [1], > I > > do > > > > not want to boil the ocean with all the changes at once. In this > FLIP, > > my > > > > proposal is to first work on the UX design as that gives us a good > > > starting > > > > point. We can use it as a framework to make iterative changes and > > > > enhancements to diagrams and the actual website content > incrementally. > > > > > > > > > > > > I’ve added a few more screenshots of additional pages to the FLIP > > > that > > > > will give you a clearer picture of the proposed changes for the main > > > page, > > > > What is Flink [Architecture, Applications, and Operations] pages. > > > > > > > > > > > > And finally, I am not proposing any tooling changes. > > > > > > > > > > > > [1] > > https://lists.apache.org/thread/c3pt00cf77lrtgt242p26lgp9l2z5yc8 > > > > > > [2]https://flink.apache.org/ > > > > > > [3] https://spark.apache.org/ > > > > > > [4] https://kafka.apache.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > > On 7/13/23, 6:25 AM, "Chesnay Schepler" <ches...@apache.org > > > <mailto: > > > > ches...@apache.org>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. > Do > > > > not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender > > and > > > > know the content is safe. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 13/07/2023 08:07, Mohan, Deepthi wrote: > > > > > >> However, even these developers when explicitly asked in our > > > > conversations often comment that the website could do with a redesign > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you go into more detail as to their specific concerns? Are > > there > > > > > > functional problems with the page, or is this just a matter of "I > > > don't > > > > > > like the way it looks"? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What had they trouble with? Which information was > > > > > > missing/unnecessary/too hard to find? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The FLIP states that "/we want to modernize the website so that > new > > > and > > > > > > existing users can easily find information to understand what > Flink > > > is, > > > > > > the primary use cases where Flink is useful, and clearly > understand > > > its > > > > > > value proposition/." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From the mock-ups I don't /really/ see how these stated goals > are > > > > > > achieved. It mostly looks like a fresh coat of paint, with a > > > compressed > > > > > > nav bar (which does reduce how much information and links we > throw > > at > > > > > > people at once (which isn't necessarily bad)). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you go into more detail w.r.t. to the proposed > > > > > > text/presentation/diagram changes? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I assume you are not proposing any tooling changes? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
