François,
thanks for starting this initiative. Personally, I don't think it's
necessarily harmful for the project to add such a new page, however, I
share the same concerns others raised already.
I understand your motivation that people had issues finding commercial
support, but I am not sure we can address this issue that way. I am also
"worried" (for the lack of a better word) that the page might become
long an unwieldy. In the end, any freelancer/consultant offering Kafka
services would be able to get on the page, so we might get hundreds of
entries, what also makes it impossible for users to find what they are
looking for. Also, the services of different companies might vary
drastically; should users read all these descriptions? I can also
imagine that some companies offer their services only in some
countries/regions making it even harder for user to find what they are
looking for?
Overall, it sounds more like a search optimization problem, and thus it
seems out-of-scope what we can solve. As I said, I am not strictly
against it, but I just don't see much value either.
-Matthias
On 1/11/24 12:55 PM, Francois Papon wrote:
Hi Justine,
You're right, Kafka is a part of my business (training, consulting,
architecture design, sla...) and most of the time, users/customers said
that it was hard for them to find a commercial support (in France for my
case) after searching on the Kafka website (Google didn't help them).
As an ASF member and PMC of several ASF projects, I know that this kind
of page exist so this is why I made this proposal for the Kafka project
because I really think that it can help users.
As you suggest, I can submit a PR to be added on the "powered by" page.
Thanks,
François
On 11/01/2024 21:00, Justine Olshan wrote:
Hey François,
My point was that the companies on that page use kafka as part of their
business. If you use Kafka as part of your business feel free to submit a
PR to be added.
I second Chris's point that other projects are not enough to require
Kafka
having such a support page.
Justine
On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 11:57 AM Chris Egerton <fearthecel...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Hi François,
Is it an official policy of the ASF that projects provide a listing of
commercial support options for themselves? I understand that other
projects
have chosen to provide one, but this doesn't necessarily imply that all
projects should do the same, and I can't say I find this point very
convincing as a rebuttal to some of the good-faith concerns raised by
the
PMC and members of the community so far. However, if there's an official
ASF stance on this topic, then I acknowledge that Apache Kafka should
align
with it.
Best,
Chris
On Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 14:50 fpapon <fpa...@apache.org> wrote:
Hi Justine,
I'm not sure to see the difference between "happy users" and vendors
that advertise their products in some of the company list in the
"powered by" page.
Btw, my initial purpose of my proposal was to help user to find support
for production stuff rather than searching in google.
I don't think this is a bad thing because this is something that
already
exist in many ASF projects like:
https://hop.apache.org/community/commercial/
https://struts.apache.org/commercial-support.html
https://directory.apache.org/commercial-support.html
https://tomee.apache.org/commercial-support.html
https://plc4x.apache.org/users/commercial-support.html
https://camel.apache.org/community/support/
https://openmeetings.apache.org/commercial-support.html
https://guacamole.apache.org/support/
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/HADOOP2/Distributions+and+Commercial+Support
https://activemq.apache.org/supporthttps://karaf.apache.org/community.html
https://netbeans.apache.org/front/main/help/commercial-support/
https://royale.apache.org/royale-commercial-support/
https://karaf.apache.org/community.html
As I understand for now, the channel for users to find production
support is:
- The mailing list (u...@kafka.apache.org / dev@kafka.apache.org)
- The official #kafka ASF Slack channel (may be we can add it on the
website because I didn't find it in the website =>
https://kafka.apache.org/contact)
- Search in google for commercial support only
I can update my PR to mention only the 3 points above for the "get
support" page if people think that having a support page make sense.
regards,
François
On 11/01/2024 19:34, Justine Olshan wrote:
I think there is a difference between the "Powered by" page and a page
for
vendors to advertise their products and services.
The idea is that the companies on that page are "powered by" Kafka.
They
serve as examples of happy users of Kafka.
I don't think it is meant only as a place just for those companies to
advertise.
I'm a little confused by
In this case, I'm ok to say that the commercial support section in
the
"Get support" is no need as we can use this page.
If you plan to submit for this page, please include a description on
how
your company uses Kafka.
I'm happy to hear other folks' opinions on this page as well.
Thanks,
Justine
On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 8:57 AM fpapon <fpa...@apache.org> wrote:
Hi,
About the vendors list and neutrality, what is the policy of the
"Powered by" page?
https://kafka.apache.org/powered-by
We can see company with logo, some are talking about their product
(Agoora), some are offering services (Instaclustr, Aiven), and we can
also see some that just put their logo and a link to their website
without any explanation (GoldmanSachs).
So as I understand and after reading the text in the footer of this
page, every company can add themselves by providing a PR right?
"Want to appear on this page?
Submit a pull request or send a quick description of your
organization
and usage to the mailing list and we'll add you."
In this case, I'm ok to say that the commercial support section in
the
"Get support" is no need as we can use this page.
regards,
François
On 10/01/2024 19:03, Kenneth Eversole wrote:
I agree with Divji here and to be more pointed. I worry that if
we go
down
the path of adding vendors to a list it comes off as supporting
their
product, not to mention could be a huge security risk for novice
users. I
would rather this be a callout to other purely open source tooling,
such
as
cruise control.
Divji brings up good question
1. What value does additional of this page bring to the users of
Apache
Kafka?
I think the community would be a better service to have a more
synchronous
line of communication such as Slack/Discord and we call that out
here.
It
would be more inline with other major open source projects.
---
Kenneth Eversole
On Wed, Jan 10, 2024 at 10:30 AM Divij Vaidya <
divijvaidy...@gmail.com
wrote:
I don't see a need for this. What additional information does this
provide
over what can be found via a quick google search?
My primary concern is that we are getting in the business of
listing
vendors in the project site which brings it's own complications
without
adding much additional value for users. In the spirit of being
vendor
neutral, I would try to avoid this as much as possible.
So, my question to you is:
1. What value does additional of this page bring to the users of
Apache
Kafka?
2. When a new PR is submitted to add a vendor, what criteria do we
have
to
decide whether to add them or not? If we keep a blanket criteria of
accepting all PRs, then we may end up in a situation where the
llink
redirects to a phishing page or nefarious website. Hence, we might
have
to
at least perform some basic due diligence which adds overhead to
the
resources of the community.
--
Divij Vaidya
On Wed, Jan 10, 2024 at 5:00 PM fpapon <fpa...@apache.org> wrote:
Hi,
After starting a first thread on this topic (
https://lists.apache.org/thread/kkox33rhtjcdr5zztq3lzj7c5s7k9wsr),
I
would like to propose a PR:
https://github.com/apache/kafka-site/pull/577
The purpose of this proposal is to help users to find support for
sla,
training, consulting...whatever that is not provide by the
community
as,
like we can already see in many ASF projects, no commercial
support
is
provided by the foundation. I think it could help with the
adoption
and
the
growth of the project because the users
need commercial support for production issues.
If the community is agree about this idea and want to move
forward, I
just
add one company in the PR but everybody can add some by
providing a
new
PR
to complete the list. If people want me to add other you can reply
to
this
thread because it will be better to have several company at the
first
publication of the page.
Just provide the company-name and a short description of the
service
offer
around Apache Kafka. The information must be factual and
informational
in
nature and not be a marketing statement.
regards,
François
--
--
François
--
--
François
