On the topic of social contracts and communities, I'd like to invite anyone who's interested to take a look at the draft version of the Code of Conduct for Wikimedia Technical Spaces - https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Code_of_conduct_for_technical_spaces/Draft. Any feedback is welcome on the talk page.
On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 1:11 PM, Moriel Schottlender <mor...@gmail.com> wrote: > moriel, i do not agree to the abstraction you introduce here. a >> community consists of persons afaik. it is a person which feels, not a >> community. if there is a rule for the community its purpose is to >> apply to a person part of the community. sarah sharp tried to make a >> rule "do not curse or go away". as linus torvalds curses from time to >> time it is not rocket science to understand that rule as: (1) linus >> please change and do not curse, or (2) linus please leave the >> community if you cannot stop cursing. >> > > I am simplifying the bottom line, because the bottom line is fairly simple. > > When a group of individuals form a community, they are no longer > completely individuals; they have set for themselves a social contract that > binds them. We can discuss the minutia of the social contract forever, of > course, as these arguments went for ages, from John Locke's extensive > individual liberties, to Hobbes' absolute authoritative rule, to Jean Jack > Rousseau's general will -- but that still leaves the conclusion the same: > What type of community do we *want* to have? > > I find it somewhat ironic that we are arguing for respecting an almost > absolute individual rights and liberties of people in the community who are > (sometimes self-professed) assholes and bully others, but we neglect the > individual rights and liberties of the people who are being bullied. The > entire point of having a *community* (rather than a disconnected grouping > of individuals) is to find the balance to give the liberties to its members > not on the expense of other members' liberties. > > And yet, it seems that in the arguments that are raised, the "sides" keep > being presented as the extreme choices, as if no other middle ground is > available. That is false, and we don't have to read historical > philosophical treatises to see that. > > The option is not to either "have liberty" or "be oppressed". That is a > strawman representation of our options. There are many more options, which > many governments and societies around the world adapt -- some more > successfully than others -- without crushing the individual rights of > people who don't seem to care about the individual rights of others. > > Sarah Sharp's leaving Linux' community is not about Linus Torvalds' > individual rights to be an asshole. He can continue being an asshole all he > wants, and he, I assume, knows the pros and cons of being an asshole in his > personal life. It's his right, and he deserves to make that personal choice. > > The community of people who gathered for a shared purpose, however, needs > to make a conscious, collective decision about the type of community they > care to have. That is the point of having a community in the first place. > > It is a very simple give and take, a simple mathematical consideration: > You get one thing on the expense of another, such is life. > *Which is why in life, most often, we look for middle ground rather than > extremes.* > > If the social contract the community agrees on implicitly or explicitly > results in making certain sub-groups marginalized, bullied and feel > unwelcome, then these groups will not stay as part of that community. > > If the community thinks this is a correct price to pay for absolute > liberties, then all the John Locke for it. > > If, however, we recognize that this price is too steep -- and that the > "corrective step" of "don't be a jerk to others" is acceptable -- then the > community should demonstrate it in its social contract and find the balance > between oppressing the bullies and supporting the bullied. > > I don't see what's so complicated in this concept, really. We're just > making it complicated by concentrating on the small details. > > So I will repeat my paragraph from my first email, the one that makes > everything really really simple: > > "If people don't think that having an abusive community is a problem, > then they should understand they are *losing* the people they are abusing, > and keeping the people who are abusing others. That means that we are not > keeping the good contributors and weeding out the lazy/bad contributors -- > it means we're keeping the jerks, whether they're effective contributors or > not, and weeding out the ones who give up and don't want to be abused, > whether they're awesome or not." > > > > >> >> >>> On Wed, Oct 7, 2015 at 12:44 PM, rupert THURNER >> >>> <rupert.thur...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>>> to let wikipedia NPOV also have a word, here what linus torvalds >> >>>> thought about it two years ago: >> >>>> http://marc.info/?l=linux-kernel&m=137392506516022&w=2 >> >>>> in a summary, torvalds argues that sarah sharp should accept that >> >>>> people are different and act different, she should not try to change >> >>>> linus torvalds. >> >>> >> >>>> > On Oct 7, 2015 6:44 AM, "Jason Radford" <jsradf...@uchicago.edu> >> >>>> > wrote: >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> I think folks here will understand this story. >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> http://sarah.thesharps.us/2015/10/05/closing-a-door/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Gendergap mailing list >> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org >> To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please >> visit: >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap >> > > > > -- > No trees were harmed in the creation of this post. > But billions of electrons, photons, and electromagnetic waves were > terribly inconvenienced during its transmission! > > _______________________________________________ > Gendergap mailing list > Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org > To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please > visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap >
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