Hi Wayne, I think I have been sending from the wrong email address or not replying all, but I did not intend for any of my messages to be off list. Just clearing up for the rest of everyone.
If you aim on having this done before the next stable release, I am comfortable with where we are. Nightlies are nightlies, and will have bugs. I'll set the environment variables, for now, in my nightlies, and will include a note in the README so users who need different options have a signpost aiming at what they need to do. I am glad this work is coming. Thanks! It will be helpful for the users and packagers! Adam Wolf Cofounder and Engineer W&L On Jan 8, 2015 10:42 AM, "Wayne Stambaugh" <stambau...@gmail.com> wrote: > On 1/8/2015 11:23 AM, Adam Wolf wrote: > > Wonderful! > > > > Any sort of ETA on this work? Is it something I can help out on, or is > > it really nitty gritty and needs someone who is really familiar with the > > internals? > > Your going to have to be pretty comfortable with the internals to write > this code. You will also have to understand how to save settings in > kicad_common since many of these settings will apply to multiple apps. > I probably wont get started until after FOSDEM since I still have a > presentation to finish along with the usual patch testing and > committing. I definitely would like to have it done before the next > stable release so users who make the change from the current stable > release wont suffer the same grief as the users who like to bleed on the > edge. > > > > > > Adam Wolf > > Cofounder and Engineer > > W&L > > > > On Jan 8, 2015 10:06 AM, "Wayne Stambaugh" <stambau...@gmail.com > > <mailto:stambau...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > On 1/8/2015 10:40 AM, Adam Wolf wrote: > > > Hi Wayne, > > > > > > Thank you for wearing all those hats! It makes you a pleasure to > > work with. > > > > Your welcome. That's what makes working on KiCad challenging. I am > a > > user, developer, and packager trying to satisfy all of those > > requirements on three separate platforms each with their own set of > ever > > changing quirks. I'm not sure anyone can fully wrap their head > around > > all of it. I know I can't. > > > > > > > > I am not familiar with the path dialog work. From what I can > > infer, it > > > sounds great--even better than default environment variable values > is > > > something users can see and modify without restarting Kicad. > > > > This work is aimed squarely at the user. The current design > resolved an > > ongoing library issue but created a headache for the user in that it > > introduced the concept of environment variables. The goal with the > path > > dialog is to come up with default settings that work in most cases > and > > shield the user from having to learn how to set environment > variables. > > Once this work is complete, there should be no reason for user's to > set > > environment variables at the system level unless they have specific > > configuration requirements. > > > > > > > > If we have a solid plan going forward for this, I feel even better > > about > > > putting a custom patch for the environment variable in the mac > > > nightlies, in the interest of serving users and not delaying the > > > nightlies release any sooner. As soon as the path dialog stuff is > > ready, > > > we can pull the custom patch and provide a transition for users if > > > needed. (I don't expect there would be...) > > > > Setting the environment variable on OSX may or may not be desirable > > depending on the user's preferences. Please note that once an > > environment variable is set at the system or user level, the new code > > will ignore the user's KiCad setting. > > > > > > > > Currently, any custom patches are listed in the README > automatically. > > > > > > I would not feel as good about putting custom patches in for the > > > upcoming stable release. > > > > > > Bernhard, folks, what do you think? Is this a reasonable option? > > > > > > Adam Wolf > > > > > > Cofounder and Engineer > > > > > > W&L > > > > > > On Jan 8, 2015 9:15 AM, "Wayne Stambaugh" <stambau...@gmail.com > > <mailto:stambau...@gmail.com> > > > <mailto:stambau...@gmail.com <mailto:stambau...@gmail.com>>> > wrote: > > > > > > On 1/8/2015 9:43 AM, Adam Wolf wrote: > > > > Hi Wayne, > > > > > > > > When dealing with Kicad's internals, I often have the > > perspective of a > > > > packager, and sometimes that makes me have weird ideas. > > > > > > As a developer, packager, and user I have the same issues. > > What is good > > > for development purposes is not always the best for packaging > > or use and > > > vice-versa. Finding a good balance is more difficult than one > > would > > > think. > > > > > > > > > > > I remember the search path discussions and the issues where > > it was > > > > impossible to tell which footprint got picked. I don't want > > to bring > > > > that back. > > > > > > > > Right now, KISYS3DMOD has a default value defined in code if > the > > > > environment variable isn't set. What about if there is a > > default > > > value > > > > for all of the standard environment variables? > > > > > > > > I'm not sure what everyone else thinks, but defining those > > default > > > > values in CMake might actually be a good idea--then > > packagers can > > > modify > > > > them without patching, but it wouldn't be a problem either > > if we just > > > > split it up into Lin/Win/OSX sections in the code. > > > > > > I plan on setting the default paths and environment variables > > as part of > > > the path dialog work. I will most likely use the paths > > generated by > > > CMake as the defaults. This should work in most cases and > > will work in > > > every case when `cmake install` is used to install kicad. The > > only > > > place I see an issue is the windows installer. By default > > cmake sets > > > the install path on windows to c:\Program Files\kicad or > > c:\Program > > > Files (x86)\kicad. If the user chooses to change the install > > path, the > > > default path settings would be wrong. There are several ways > > around > > > this that are very windows specific and each having it's own > > set of > > > issues. > > > > > > > > > > > Adam Wolf > > > > Cofounder and Engineer > > > > W&L > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 7:44 AM, Wayne Stambaugh > > > <stambau...@gmail.com <mailto:stambau...@gmail.com> > > <mailto:stambau...@gmail.com <mailto:stambau...@gmail.com>> > > > > <mailto:stambau...@gmail.com <mailto:stambau...@gmail.com> > > <mailto:stambau...@gmail.com <mailto:stambau...@gmail.com>>>> wrote: > > > > > > > > Fully defined paths can be used in the fp-lib-table if > > that is > > > your > > > > preference. Environment variable substitution is > optional. > > > You are > > > > free to use any environment variable you want. KISYSMOD > is > > > merely the > > > > variable name used for the default footprint library > > path. I use > > > > KILCLMOD to point to the path of my custom footprint > > > libraries. I set > > > > these paths to the same disk partition and and path in > both > > > windows and > > > > linux so I'm always using the same footprint libraries > > when I'm > > > > developing on either platform. > > > > > > > > On 1/8/2015 8:33 AM, Adam Wolf wrote: > > > > > Maybe. For KISYSMOD, I am not sure if it is used > anywhere > > > in the source. > > > > > > > > > > I do not think your work around would work for > KISYS3DMOD, > > > though. > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 8, 2015 7:29 AM, "Miguel Ángel Ajo" > > > <majop...@redhat.com <mailto:majop...@redhat.com> > > <mailto:majop...@redhat.com <mailto:majop...@redhat.com>> > > > <mailto:majop...@redhat.com <mailto:majop...@redhat.com> > > <mailto:majop...@redhat.com <mailto:majop...@redhat.com>>> > > > > > <mailto:majop...@redhat.com > > <mailto:majop...@redhat.com> <mailto:majop...@redhat.com > > <mailto:majop...@redhat.com>> > > > <mailto:majop...@redhat.com <mailto:majop...@redhat.com> > > <mailto:majop...@redhat.com <mailto:majop...@redhat.com>>>>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Can’t users just change that reference to their > > own path > > > on their > > > > > own fp-lib-table > > > > > instead of the ENV var reference if they don’t > > want the > > > system modules? > > > > > > > > > > That would be reasonable enough to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Miguel Ángel Ajo > > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, 8 de January de 2015 at 13:53, Adam > > Wolf wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> I hear what you're saying. > > > > >> > > > > >> I don't really like the idea of using environment > > > variables to > > > > >> drive the behavior of GUI programs, especially in > OS > > > X. They're > > > > >> tricky in OS X, and they're hard to explain to a > > lot of > > > users. > > > > >> > > > > >> Fixing this through changing the behavior of how > > > KISYSMOD and > > > > >> probably the other environment variables work in > > Kicad > > > is probably > > > > >> a fair bit of work, at least a week or two--when > you > > > include > > > > >> developer discussion, regression testing on other > > > platforms, stuff > > > > >> like that, probably even longer. > > > > >> > > > > >> I'm not 100% happy about it, but would something > like > > > this be an > > > > >> OK stopgap measure while we figure out the right > > thing > > > moving > > > > >> forward? I am fine only putting this patch in my > > builds. > > > > >> > > > > >> Adam Wolf > > > > >> Cofounder and Engineer > > > > >> Wayne and Layne > > > > >> > > > > >> On Jan 8, 2015 6:26 AM, "Bernhard Stegmaier" > > > > >> <stegma...@sw-systems.de > > <mailto:stegma...@sw-systems.de> > > > <mailto:stegma...@sw-systems.de > > <mailto:stegma...@sw-systems.de>> <mailto:stegma...@sw-systems.de > > <mailto:stegma...@sw-systems.de> > > > <mailto:stegma...@sw-systems.de <mailto: > stegma...@sw-systems.de>>> > > > > <mailto:stegma...@sw-systems.de > > <mailto:stegma...@sw-systems.de> > > > <mailto:stegma...@sw-systems.de > > <mailto:stegma...@sw-systems.de>> <mailto:stegma...@sw-systems.de > > <mailto:stegma...@sw-systems.de> > > > <mailto:stegma...@sw-systems.de > > <mailto:stegma...@sw-systems.de>>>>> > > > > wrote: > > > > >>> __ > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Hi Adam, hi all, > > > > >>> > > > > >>> that IMHO could be problematic (depends on what > > you intend > > > > to have). > > > > >>> > > > > >>> For a single-user environment this might be OK, > > but it > > > then > > > > >>> forces modules to be in a machine specific folder > > > common to all > > > > >>> users. In a multi-user environment you probably > > might not > > > > want to > > > > >>> have that. And, I never read somewhere that you > can > > > override > > > > this > > > > >>> setting of the bundle somehow, so this could be > > a once > > > and for > > > > >>> all decision (as long as you don't fiddle around > > with the > > > > >>> Info.plist) and you wouldn't need an environment > > > variable at > > > > all... > > > > >>> Further, I think I tried once to use "~" or > > "$HOME" in > > > > Info.plist > > > > >>> but it doesn't expand such variables. So, you > > obviously > > > > can't set > > > > >>> the path to something in user home with this > method. > > > > >>> Last, I don't know if always any (non-root) user > is > > > allowed to > > > > >>> write into /Library/Application Support/kicad? > > > > >>> > > > > >>> In my opinion, the old concept of search paths > > did fit > > > such > > > > >>> hardcoded paths much better than it is currently > > with > > > > environment > > > > >>> variables. If environment variables are too hard > to > > > set, then > > > > >>> probably a configuration setting directly from > some > > > "Settings" > > > > >>> menu would be better. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> My opionion: I wouldn't want to have it that > > way, but > > > since I am > > > > >>> the only one using KiCad on my machines I can > also > > > live with > > > > some > > > > >>> links pushing things into the spot I want to > > have it. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> This altogether is somewhat inconsistent, because > > > eeschema will > > > > >>> *always* look in <base>/library with <base> > > being (in that > > > > order): > > > > >>> * $KICAD > > > > >>> * ~/Library/Application Support > > > > >>> * /Library/Application Support > > > > >>> * <kicad.app>/Contents/SharedSupport > > > > >>> > > > > >>> So, if the path should be fixed for pcbnew, I > > would at > > > least > > > > >>> expect eeschema to behave the same way (i.e., > > removing > > > all the > > > > >>> other paths and also pointing it to the one > global > > > > >>> /Library/Application/Support/kicad/library). > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Regards, > > > > >>> Bernhard > > > > >>> > > > > >>> PS: > > > > >>> > > > > >>> I just had a brief look at the Apple docs and > > did see here > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/General/Reference/InfoPlistKeyReference/Articles/LaunchServicesKeys.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/20001431-106825 > > > > >>> > > > > >>> that obviously the environment set in the > Info-plist > > > is only > > > > >>> valid when launching via an icon, but not via > > > command-line: > > > > >>> <<< > > > > >>> These environment variables are set only for > > apps launched > > > > >>> through Launch Services. If you run your > executable > > > directly > > > > from > > > > >>> the command line, these environment variables > > are not set. > > > > >>> >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> So, another issue that already now with the > KIGITHUB > > > variable > > > > >>> might lead to confusion... > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> On 2015-01-08 06:52, Adam Wolf wrote: > > > > >>> > > > > >>>> Hi folks, > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> As you may know, it's harder than it seems to > > set an > > > > environment > > > > >>>> variable on a bundle in OS X as a user. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> I have a patch here for the OS X bundle that > sets > > > KISYSMOD to > > > > >>>> /Library/Application Support/kicad/modules > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Please let me know if there are any questions or > > > comments. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Thanks! > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Adam Wolf > > > > >>>> Cofounder and Engineer > > > > >>>> W&L > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> 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