As requested, here is a log of the discussion. ---- <micah> hello <matze> hi <Bryan> hey <micah> Matthias, this is one of my partners, Bryan.. the other is on his way <matze> alright <micah> any word on Martin? <matze> hmm, he said he would be here at 6pm jmz209 has joined #labyrinth <micah> and that's Jon, the other partner <matze> ok :) <jmz209> hello everyone <matze> hi Jon <micah> should we wait a bit more then? <micah> maybe brief introductions while we wait.. <matze> yes, we can give him another 5 minutes <micah> alright <micah> so where are you from Matthias <matze> I am from Karlsruhe, Germany <micah> nice; I'm from NY originally, but studying in Pennsylvania <matze> computer science I suppose? <micah> actually computer engineering, so hardware as well <jmz209> I'm studying here in Pennsylvania, US as well, though I'm also from here <jmz209> Computer Science and Business major here, though I'm mostly focuesed on software development <matze> I see <micah> do you happen to know Martin personally, or just through labyrinth <matze> just through labyrinth <matze> as I remember he became maintainer after don <matze> and two weeks later I started sending in some patches <micah> has don moved on then? <matze> I don't really know <micah> hmm, alright <matze> he is maintainer of yelp, the GNOME browser and seemed to be overloaded by work <matze> wrong window <micah> heh <micah> well, we have some questions about where labyrinth is coming from, and where you think it should go <matze> ok <matze> any specific ones? <micah> sure <micah> the most pressing being.. <micah> it seems like labyrinth wants to behave like tomboy <micah> in the sense that it runs in the tray and can be accessed quickly for short periods of time <matze> that's right <micah> can you explain the advantage you see with that model <matze> well, you already said it. making a mind map should take very minimal time <matze> the problem is, many people see labyrinth as tomboy-visualized <micah> hmm <matze> it is not. in fact it accompanies tomboy, and tomboy integration is high on the todo-list <micah> i agree that making a map should be quick and easy, but I'm not sure I see the value in the tomboy autosave model <micah> ok <matze> why not? <matze> it's quite handy <micah> tomboy is yes, because its all text.. sort of like jotting down on paper <matze> and it is centered on content not a document name someone has to come up with <micah> and maybe thats what labyrinth should be like <micah> but it gets awkward when you want to share maps <matze> that is true <matze> and that was one of my first patches: exporting maps <micah> and i find that may very well be the advantage to a visual map over text <matze> so, what would you propose? <micah> i'm playing devils advocate here, because i do think there is a ton of value in the tomboy model <micah> which can be awkward for new users <matze> that is true mascha has joined #labyrinth <micah> martin? <mascha> yes. hello all <matze> hi <micah> hi <jmz209> hello <micah> matze, the only other argument i see against running it as an applet would be frequency of use <micah> i love making mind maps, but i don't know if I'd want to leave it running in the background all the time <matze> actually labyrinth is not an applet <matze> it is supposed to become one <matze> but it isn't <micah> right <micah> so if it becomes one, do you see users starting it with their gnome session? <mascha1> I start it with my session. <matze> tough question <micah> how often do you create new maps mascha1 <mascha1> a minimum of one per month <micah> so does that warrant running it in the tray? <micah> and again, let me just say that I'm not against running it as an applet, i just think we need to make sure why it should be an applet <mascha1> Possibly not. Application starting is now easier with tools like gnome-do. <micah> yea, i use gnome-do; it's great <mascha1> A integration would make the tray unnecessary. <micah> integration with tomboy? <mascha1> No integration with gnome-do. How should a tomboy integration look like? <micah> not sure, but users have brought it up on the issues page <matze> yes <matze> http://code.google.com/p/labyrinth/issues/detail?id=77 <matze> that one struck my mind <micah> yeah, i was looking for that <micah> i have that mockup on my desktop actually <mascha1> But the problem is that tomboy is only text no graphic. <micah> i suppose integration would be limited to opening tomboy notes from thoughts, or thoughts from tomboy notes <mascha1> I do not see the benefits for me. For me would a integration with a desktop search engine better. Because I search with this and open the found map over this application. <mascha1> Like you can do with gnome-do. <micah> right <micah> i was just going to say that <Bryan> well changing it from an applet would also solve the window closing problem where closing the loader closes the map. <micah> you both know the code much better than we do; how hard would it be to remove the initial window and instead make a tray applet? <micah> and perhaps provide a search window that lets you filter through your maps? <mascha1> The tray already exists. <matze> yes some started working on it <micah> yeah, i saw that switch in the svn <mascha1> The source code needs imho a big refactoring (rewrite). <matze> indeed ;) <micah> yeah, we've had trouble walking through it <micah> but i don't know how committed you guys are for that kind of time <matze> well, at the moment I don't have that much time, maybe some hours per week <mascha> But the search would be easy because its only text files (xml). <mascha> @micah. What version of labyrinth do you use? <micah> for a while i used .4, but i've been playing with the latest svn <micah> so the labyrinth should definitely head in the applet direction then <matze> I don't really know <mascha> do you mean starting as applet by default? <micah> right <micah> would allow for better desktop integration, and moves beyond the open / save paradigm <matze> well there is no real open/save paradigm now too <micah> there is for most desktop apps.. it seem like labyrinth is in a funny position between a regular application, and an applet like tomboy <matze> yes <mascha> I am not sure because I startet working on labyrinth to fix bugs I had during use and I am done for now. If I can motivate myself to work on labyrinth any further then yes this would be a goal. <micah> and based on what i've heard, it seems like moving towards an applet is more in line with the original vision <micah> its too bad don isn't hear to tell us his original intentions <mascha> But a vision can change if the people behind the project change. ;-) <matze> he noticed some of his goals in a text file <micah> which file? <matze> http://code.google.com/p/labyrinth/source/browse/trunk/doc/TheFuture <matze> this one <mascha> In the last years my desktop usage changed very much to use the keyboard only and use gnome-do . <mascha> So for me the application goes in the direction for a better keyboard usage and gnome-do application. <matze> too bad I regularly change computers where I can't install custom applications <matze> keyboard is still a problem as well as a11y... :( <micah> okay <micah> we'll go over TheFuture document later as a group <micah> does labyrinth run on windows? <matze> yes, but I never verified it <micah> do either of you have thoughts on that? <mascha> Yes I thing so. <matze> what thoughts? <mascha> No because I do not use windows. <micah> does providing that support add any clutter to the code? <matze> a little bit <mascha> Yes. <matze> there are if platform == ... and so on <mascha> One thing is gconf. <Bryan> i wiill be back in about 5 min need to change rooms. <mascha> We use it for storage of config values. <micah> it seems to us that windows has its share of mind mapping tools, and trying to stretch labyrinth to be cross platform isn't worth it <mascha> gtk is natively available for a lot of platforms (including windows) python too <matze> most mind mapping applications I encountered so far are too heavy weight for my mind. so I think a lean app like labyrinth fits windows too <micah> would it require extra support to run in the windows tray as opposed to the gnome? <matze> I don't know <mascha1> So we are cross platform like we can. But I anything about why gconf aren't working there. <mascha1> But I didn't know anything about why gconf aren't working there. <mascha1> We need more input from windows users. <micah> it seems to me that a windows port should come after a polished product <micah> the fact is, the Gnome desktop needs this, not windows <micah> gnome users only real alternative seems to be freemind <jmz209> unfortunately I have to bail out for now, but thank you all for your time, and I left my additional thoughts with Micah <micah> which is Java i believe <micah> take care jmz209 jmz209 has quit <micah> well that side, we should discuss some other things <micah> one of the things that has come up on the issues page that we feel labyrinth lacks is auto alignment of thoughts <micah> which harkins back to what mascha1 said about using a keyboard instead of a mouse <mascha1> what mean harkins? <matze> this shouldn't be a big deal imho <micah> gets back to <micah> i see you've added auto alignment options <micah> manual* <matze> no that's manual alignment <micah> sorry <micah> by definition, a mind map is different from a concept map by the fact that it maintains a single root node <matze> yes <micah> we think that as you add thoughts, labyrinth should space out thoughts to make the map neat without user intervention <micah> how valuable is being able to freely place nodes? <matze> I don't want to be restricted by a program <matze> we thought about adding two modes: auto-layout and free layout <micah> yeah <micah> how about alternative views? <micah> for auto formatting <matze> which should look like? <micah> a few examples would be.. <micah> root node in the center, children on the left and right only <micah> root at the top, children below <matze> hmm ok <micah> or root on the bottom, children above, like a tree <micah> when you say you don't want to be restricted by the program.. would you feel restricted if you could change the order after labyrinth placed the node? <matze> I don't really know <matze> the problem is, that I don't restrict myself on paper too <matze> I just draw the map and fill out spaces <micah> right <mascha> this sounds good to me <micah> but if labyrinth placed them so it was easiest to read, you wouldn't spend time placing them <micah> which makes for faster map creation <matze> yes thats right <micah> which justifies labyrinth as an applet <micah> a quick to use program <matze> sorry but I have to leave now <micah> alright, that's fine <micah> thank you so much <matze> if you could send the log to the list, it would be great <micah> we'll keep in touch as we go <micah> surely <matze> ok, thanks <matze> see you <micah> alright, thanks again matze has quit <micah> alright, thanks mascha - we'll keep in touch <mascha> thank you <mascha> bye <micah> see you later ----
On Nov 10, 2:35 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > On Sun, 9 Nov 2008 15:00:07 -0800 (PST) > > Micah Micah wrote: > > The old site says :"We can also (sometimes) be found on IRC > on > > irc.gimp.org, in #labyrinth." I figure we could just use > > that. > > 6pm GMT is ok for me. Lets try this channel. > But it > is possible that I am not reachable because I have problems with my > network connection and to fix it is out of my sphere of influence. > > Bye, > martin. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Labyrinth Discussion" group. To post to this group, send email to labyrinth-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/labyrinth-devel?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
