>>Re-read his example. He encodes the data in PHP. But decodes the data in >>SQL. So, if you echo the SQL statement, you would see a base64 encoded >>string that SQL then decodes.
Got it this time! Up until reading your reply, I was reading Alex's example with my pseudo-code glasses. I did not realize that the decoding was being done by SQL! I though it was still in PHP. And that's where I got confused with the hey why not string casting it then and got into what's the difference situation. But, you were laser sharp on that! Thanks a bunch! >> as to the other issue, the one with utf-8 and mb_detect_encoding, not >> working for it - cause there are ways of getting around. I still don't get >> it. First q comes to mind, why the heck use mb_detect_encoding then if it >> can be hacked around? see what I'm saying. but i don't want to go off on a >> tangent.. all i'm trying to do is to safely protect myself from a possible >> sql injection by using the available filters and sanitizations and >> techniques but without the PDO. That's the requirement. No PDO. From the >> earlier recommendations, I understand PDO is the way to go - cause it >> effectively separates the sql code from the user input to make sure user >> input does not get executed.. that explanation ... i get that... no problems >> there... yes, do use PDO... but my question is not what's the safest way in >> general?. But rather, what's the safest way without the PDO? Without the >> PDO, it seems like b64'ing it will do the job! And since the data will be >> stored as clear text, the searches against that data will also work too. I >> can take this implementation and build my library function based on that - >> instead of making it 1- first check if the in user string is in utf-8, 2- reject the input if not in utf-8 3- accept the input if utf-8 and apply the applicable filters to it starting with filter_sanitize_string 4- and on top of that, also mysql_real_escape it but from what i understand, you guys are saying just don't do this, because it may be overcome and that's not because of the fact filter_sanitize_string or mysql_real_escape_string is not effective, but because of the fact that there is NO WAY to reliably detect whether the incoming user input is in utf-8 or not. On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 9:14 AM, Jim Lucas <li...@cmsws.com> wrote: > On 01/26/2012 06:46 AM, Haluk Karamete wrote: >> >> when we do b64e and then back b64d, you are saying. we get the org >> input all as clear text but this time as a string. because it is now a >> string, "(which by definition can not be executed)" >> >> what's the difference between b64e+b64d vs (string) casting then? if >> you were to cast the original input into string using (string), >> wouldn't you be in the same shoes? > > > Re-read his example. He encodes the data in PHP. But decodes the data in > SQL. So, if you echo the SQL statement, you would see a base64 encoded > string that SQL then decodes. > > >> >> also on another note, if you know the userinput is in UTF-8, ( you >> verify that by running mb_detect_encoding($str, 'UTF-8', true); ), is >> there a situation where you think mysql_real_escape_string would fail >> in SQLINjection against string based user input ? The reason I ask >> this about specifically for strings is because it is fairly easy to >> validate againsts integers,floats,booleans using the built in >> validation filters.... my biggest issue is on strings... >> >> also what do you think about filter_sanitize_string. > > > read this: > > http://www.php.net/manual/en/filter.filters.sanitize.php > > Then read this: > > http://www.php.net/manual/en/filter.filters.flags.php > > It seems to me that filter_sanitize_string does not deal with anything other > then ASCII. > > YMMV > > >> >> and finally, where do you think PHP community plus Rasmus is having a >> hard time implementing what you have in mind - that is a one liner >> that will do the inline string interpolation you are talking about.. >> what's the issue that it hasn't been done before? >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 1:45 PM, Alex Nikitin<niks...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> You don't need to store it in the database as b64, just undo the >>> encoding into your inputs >>> >>> for the purpose of the explanation, this is language independent >>> >>> b64e - encoding function >>> b64d - decoding function >>> >>> >>> pseudo code >>> >>> given: >>> bad_num = ') union select * from foo --' >>> bad_str = "" >>> good_num = 123456 >>> good_str = "some searchable text" >>> >>> the b64 way: >>> bad_num=b64e(bad_num) >>> ... >>> good_str=b64e(good_str) >>> >>> >>> inserts: >>> query("insert into foo (num, str) values (b64d(\""+bad_num+"\"), >>> b64d(\""+bad_str+"\"))"); >>> query("insert into foo (num, str) values (b64d(\""+good_num+"\"), >>> b64d(\""+good_str+"\"))"); >>> >>> Can you see that this will safely insert clear text into the database? >>> This is because when you convert anything from b64, it will return >>> from the function as a string and will not be executed as code... >>> >>> >>> Now let's try a search: >>> bad_num= '1 or 2 not like 5' >>> bad_str = "' or \"40oz\" like \"40oz\"" >>> >>> again we: >>> bad_num=b64e(bad_num) >>> bad_str=b64e(bad_str) >>> >>> then we can do a full text search: >>> query("select * from foo where match(str) >>> against(b64d(\""+bad_str+"\"))") >>> or even a number search >>> query("select * from foo where num=b64d(\""+bad_num+"\")") >>> >>> again this is possible because no matter what you put in bad num, it >>> will never be able to make post b64e bad_num look like code, just >>> looks like junk, until b64d converts it to a string (which by >>> definition can not be executed) >>> >>> make sense now? >>> >>> >>> by check i mean, run utf8_decode for example... >>> >>> >>> Problem is, that i can tell you how to write the most secure code, but >>> if it's hard, or worse yet creates more problems than it solves >>> (seemingly), nobody other than a few individuals with some passion for >>> security will ever find the code useful. We need to fix this on the >>> language level, then we can go around and tell programmers how to do >>> it right. I mean imagine telling a programmer, that something that >>> takes them 2 lines of code now, can be done much more securely in 5-7, >>> and it creates code that doesn't read linearly... Most programmers >>> will just ignore you. I want to say, "hey programmer, what you do in 2 >>> lines of code, you can do in 1 and make it impossible to inject into", >>> then, then people will listen, maybe... This is where inline string >>> interpolation syntax comes in, but it is not implemented in any >>> programming languages, sadly actually. This is what i want to talk to >>> Rasmus about. >> >> > > > -- > Jim Lucas > > http://www.cmsws.com/ > http://www.cmsws.com/examples/ > http://www.bendsource.com/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
