Show them some facts, Jay. Go to check some articles on the net from reliable websites such as ZDnet or (if damn lucky) MSN. That could work. Also, get a real evaluation of their needs and say: This is exactly what I've done and intend to extend the functionality of. The MS software apart from being expensive is not much expandable either. Since you develop it you are having an extra card - you adapt it better to the company needs. And, you'll have time for it since there would be less trouble with maintenance. A subsidiary of our company have passed through that once. They've been running a 400.000 pv/mon site on PHP/PostgreSQL. When, after some TV commercials and other ad campaigns the traffic increased to 3.5 millions pv/mon the server started going down each 5 hours. The response time became 8-15 seconds. I told them: upgrade your hardware, do load balancing, get the db off the web server to it's own, let us improve the PHP software and add some own caching systems, plus few more minimal improvements. Expenses would be up to $12-15k for the machines and faster hosting and $9 for our work on this all. Time - 21 day. You know what they did? They have paid way more money for couple of new servers and a useless Oracle database. Hired 3 Java programmers and two p/t guys who waited for these 'three genius' rewriting all the thing in Java (the job of p/t's consisted of just making sure the site goes down a bit less). Result? Yeah, it's running. They still are keeping the programmers busy improving the site. Now, after that lesson it is easier for me to talk about our own sites here. But at client sites it's hard to convince. I noticed that real-life examples and testimonials are often working. Cheers, Maxim Maletsky -----Original Message----- From: Jay Paulson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 2:30 PM To: pierre-yves; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PHP] Need open source community help! that's EXACTLY what i'm going to throw at them.. also for the money they are going to spend on the win2k and sql db etc.. they could hire someone part time to take some of this load off my back and then i could add all the features that this other company has.. i'll just have to talk to them.. :) thanks again for all your help! ----- Original Message ----- From: "pierre-yves" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 9:46 PM Subject: Re: [PHP] Need open source community help! > I was once in your situation, fortunately, my boss understood that it is > better to have an application that has less > features but never shuts down. The linux/php/mysql app was up for 283 days > when they review it. The full featured > NT/ASP/SQL 6.5 was shut down an average of 1 full day for every 3 weeks. The > reliability will win and make you happy > in the long run, it's too bad people realized this when they need to spend > to many evenings rebuilding the server from scratch! > > py > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jay Paulson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Michael Kimsal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: "php" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 6:14 PM > Subject: Re: [PHP] Need open source community help! > > > > Well I know they aren't going to want to spend $11k on all that new > stuff.. > > when what I have cost them nothing at all.. :) however, the company I'm > > talking to is willing to deal and since I work for 6 radio stations they > > would probably be willing to trade some advertisement on the air for their > > software and SQL 7 etc.. however, I don't know if my bosses would be > willing > > to do that since mine doesn't have as many features (but will in the > > future).. the big thing here is how much is it going to cost.. that's the > > bottom line.. I'll just have to talk to them but I did want to get the > input > > of the open source community first so I could have something to back up > why > > we could use what I have developed instead of the other company's > software. > > > > Thanks for all your help! > > Jay Paulson > > Internet Program Director > > LBJS > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Michael Kimsal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Jay Paulson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Cc: "php" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 4:54 PM > > Subject: Re: [PHP] Need open source community help! > > > > > > > Why would people move away from a package they paid for already? > > > Especially > > > if it's backed up by another company - I'm guessing there's probably > > > some maintenance > > > contracts they will be signing. > > > > > > I'd suggest you (Jay) look at some other OS projects which may be more > > > full-featured > > > already, and show those. Chris is right - it depends somewhat on a > > > timeline. But there's > > > going to have to be some custom work to get things "just right", OR they > > > will need to > > > adapt the business to the software, instead of the software to the > > > business. > > > (which costs more in the long run?) > > > > > > re: Windows - I think you're being a bit hard on it. As much as I > > > support Linux, etc., after > > > a few weeks of teething a Windows setup, we've had it up and running > > > without > > > any major incidents in over a year. (SQL7) > > > > > > re: featureset - what kind of features do you not have that this other > > > package has? > > > > > > Do you already have SQL7 in house? If not, you'll need to purchase > > > SQL2000, which > > > "seems" to be $5k. If you do named licensing, it may be a bit cheaper - > > > depends on your > > > company size. Plus the cost of the Win machine, if you don't already > > > have that. Figure > > > an extra $6k on top of the cost of the software. Is it worth $6k to > > > have something > > > next week, or can they wait another month while you feverishly add the > > > missing features - > > > "exactly to spec" - for a custom fit? > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------- > > > Michael Kimsal > > > http://www.tapinternet.com/php/ > > > PHP Training Courses > > > 734-480-9961 > > > > > > > > > > > > PHP List wrote: > > > > > > >IMO > > > >I would have to say it depends on the Timeline of your Boss. > > > >Releasing the app to the open source community would be great, the more > > > >there is, the more reason for people to stop using MS, but you can't > > demand > > > >a schedule of when new features will be added. > > > >You may have to go with the MS for now, and wait for your app to be > > > >developed with the new features, then convince your boss on moving to > > your > > > >software. You should be able to move all the data from one to the other > > > >without to much trouble. > > > > > > > >Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > -- > > PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > -- > PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
