In fact, I think it was Grant (or maybe Sheldon Brown?) who turned me onto the idea that wide tires are great, especially when they're NOT knobby. For the past 15 years, it's been Panaracer Paselas for my road bike and Schwalbe Big Apple/Fat Frank for my commute/errand bike. The idea that there are noticeable gains to be had from tubeless or RH tires seems like pure hype to me, but I may be wrong. Certainly the Schwalbe tires are crazy heavy and that must affect my acceleration. But once I'm up to speed, I doubt it matters. -Wes
On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 8:41:57 AM UTC-7 Jeremy Till wrote: > I doubt that Grant was intentionally designing his bikes specifically to > handle better with knobbier tires. I think it's more a product of his own > views of how a bike should handle and the tires that were available/common > at the time he designed the bike. On the first point, he's written a few > times defending the virtues of geometric trail, perhaps as a response to > challenges from Jan-Heine-o-philes who wanted him to design a low trail > bike. On the second point, most of the tires we're discussing were nothing > but a twinkle in Jan Heine or Panaracer's eyes when the Rambouillet was > designed, and I think it probably handles best with 28-32mm road tires > because that was considered downright obese for a road bike at the time. > For the Clem, certainly that was designed closer to the contemporary golden > age of fat tires, but I still remember most of the prototypes wearing > something like a Schwalbe Big Ben, which has more of a blockier tread that > probably reduces pneumatic trail compared to something like an RH slick. > > Jeremy Till > Sacramento, CA > > On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 6:46:34 PM UTC-7 ted.l...@gmail.com wrote: > >> Jeremy, >> >> You make a good point about the geometric and pneumatic trail and the >> possibility that Grant designed his frames around a knobbier, more general >> purpose, tire thus building the frames with more geometric trail. I’d love >> to ask Grant that question to know if it was happy coincidence that they >> ended up that way or if the design choice was really that intentional. >> >> On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 4:22 PM Jeremy Till <jerem...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> On my Rivendells I've noticed that, irrespective of the surface I'm >>> riding on, I actually prefer the handling with larger knobby tires than >>> with larger slick tires. This is true on both my Clem H (2016, first-gen) >>> with 45-55mm tires and my Rambouillet (green, ~2006 as far as I can tell) >>> with 36-38mm tires. My explanation for this is that Grant tends to design >>> bikes with larger geometric trail. When you add in the pneumatic trail of >>> larger slick tires, the whole thing can feel harder to turn. Knobby tires >>> give you the same shock absorption while putting less rubber on the >>> pavement, thus reducing the pneumatic trail. Jan Heine has noted this >>> effect himself when comparing knobby and slick versions of his tires. >>> >>> My Rambouillet current wears RH (actually Compass, they're a few years >>> old) Steilacoom 700x38 knobbies. My Clem H has 29x2.2 Specialized Fast >>> Traks with the "Control" casing, which is an XC-oriented MTB tire with >>> relatively minimal knobs that rolls well on pavement. In my experience >>> there is no free lunch when it comes to supple casings and flats. Certainly >>> the ride is better with things like the RH standard casing but my rate of >>> flatting from glass and thorns goes up. Sealant and tubeless haven't been >>> the solution, in my experience, and I run both of my Rivendells with >>> tubes. >>> >>> Since Patrick was also mentioning them I will say that I've used both >>> the 700x42 and 700x38 versions of the Soma Supple Vitesse EX on my Long >>> Haul Trucker, which seems to handle better with large slicks than my >>> Rivendells. Those are good tires with an acceptable flat rate for me. I >>> also tried the 700x38 SL version on my Rambouillet and found that not only >>> did I not like the handling, but the flat rate was excessive for me. Note >>> that the only difference between the EX and SL Supple Vitesses is the >>> thickness of the tread, with the EX having thicker treads. Unlike RH and >>> other brands there is no difference in the casing between the lightweight >>> and longer wearing versions. I believe that the Shikiro is the same tread >>> as the Supple Vitesse EX with a heavier duty casing. >>> >>> Jeremy Till >>> Sacramento, CA >>> >>> On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 8:26:17 AM UTC-7 ted.l...@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>>> I’ve had tires on the brain this last week. I was thinking I might want >>>> to try something a little narrower on my Appaloosa so I’ve been a bit >>>> absorbed with that thought. >>>> >>>> At the moment I run the SimWorks Super Yummy tire with the black >>>> sidewall in 29x2.25”. I previously had their 26x2.25” tan wall tires on a >>>> 26” build and absolutely loved them on that bike. Unfortunately, in the >>>> larger size, with the sort of riding I do (spirited, urban, all-road) I >>>> find the tires sluggish and a bit unpredictable at times. Combined with >>>> the >>>> 25mm wide rim I use, the tires measure to close to 60mm wide. >>>> >>>> I was thinking about trying to find a tire with a more rounded profile >>>> and something that would be a bit narrower, somewhere in the 44-48mm range >>>> to start. >>>> >>>> I’ve been looking primarily at the Rene Herse tires. I have a friend >>>> who runs the Pumpkin Ridge (650x42) tire on his bike of a similar purpose >>>> and absolutely loves them. I’ve used the Naches Pass (26x1.8) on another >>>> build and also liked them a lot, but found that despite being the >>>> “endurance” casing, they were very prone to small punctures and didn’t >>>> handle the typical road debris around where I ride very well; this is one >>>> of the reasons I’ve typically stuck with knobbier tires. >>>> >>>> The ones on my short list are currently the Manatash Ridge (700x42) >>>> and Oracle Ridge (700x48) tires from RH. >>>> >>>> I’m curious to know and see what others on the list use and have liked. >>>> If you have pictures, I’d also love to see what they look like >>>> (particularly 42mm on frames like the Appaloosa). >>>> >>>> — Ted >>>> >>> -- >>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >>> >> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/bc2fcafe-d11b-4af1-a104-144e33a9c1c2n%40googlegroups.com >>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/bc2fcafe-d11b-4af1-a104-144e33a9c1c2n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 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