Sorry, not 5 mm, the usual ~2mm Shimano spacer. Actually I think it's a 9 speed spacer.
On Tue, Oct 17, 2023 at 11:09 PM Bill Lindsay <tapebu...@gmail.com> wrote: > Patrick Moore claims to have a 5mm spacer + a 3/32" cog on a hub. > Assuming his story is accurate, that's a stack up of 7.38mm > > Wesley said "put another cog on there", to which Patrick Moore said there > would be no room for the chain. > > 8-speed Shimano cassette cogs are 1.8mm thick, and the right spacer > between Shimano 8-speed cassette cogs is 3.0mm in thickness. So, if your > stack up was COG+SPACER+COG then that would add up to 1.8mm + 3.0mm + 1.8mm > = 6.6mm. That's a shorter stack up than what you have, and would have a > spacing between cogs that you know works. What's the problem? Would the > "inner" cog run up against the spokes or something? It sounds to me like > you have ample room to try two cogs plus a spacer and see what you think. > You frequently describe your box full of all generations of 7, 8, 9, 10 > speed cassette cogs and spacers. Give it a go! > > Bill Lindsay > El Cerrito, CA > > On Tuesday, October 17, 2023 at 4:09:12 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote: > >> I could indeed get a second cog into the place of the spacer but .... >> there'd be no room for the chain. >> >> No, good thought, but you'd need 5 mm more of space for: big cog + >> spacer + small cog; then lockring. As it is, the big cog and small cog >> would have to butt up against each other; no room for chain. >> >> On Tue, Oct 17, 2023 at 4:18 PM Wesley <brooks...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Ah. Can you not remove the 5mm spacer? That should be enough room for a >>> second cog, IMO. >>> -W >>> >>> On Tuesday, October 17, 2023 at 3:02:19 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote: >>> >>>> Not mine, said by seller to be a 2012 model. I have a 5 mm spacer, then >>>> the 3/32" cog, and then the lockring threads. >>>> >>>> Good to know that the caliper (again, list, almost vertically atop the >>>> rotor at top dead center, but actually offset a cm or two forward) can >>>> accommodate a bit of fore/aft axle movement. >>>> >>>> On Tue, Oct 17, 2023 at 3:56 PM Wesley <brooks...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hey Patrick, >>>>> My recollection of my monocog was that the freehub had room for three >>>>> cogs. I think there were spacers on the hub that covered up most of the >>>>> free hub - remove the locking and you can do adjust the spacers as >>>>> necessary. If yours is the same, then you could just keep that wheel and >>>>> put the additional cogs onto it. >>>>> >>>>> And, in case I wasn't clear in my earlier response, I think there is >>>>> plenty of adjustment room in the disc brakes to accommodate the rear axle >>>>> being adjusted in the dropout. >>>>> -Wes >>>>> >>>>> On Tuesday, October 17, 2023 at 10:44:19 AM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> That's interesting, and after blundering into a few search result >>>>>> pages about money markets and currency conversion I got: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.monebikes.com/read-me/ >>>>>> >>>>>> But he says nothing about adjustable chainstays, >>>>>> >>>>>> Still, he does talk about weird possibilities like 3" tires and drop >>>>>> bars, so I must investigate. >>>>>> >>>>>> Really, though, to conclude this question, it seems that I can either >>>>>> have a very simple bike with disc brakes as long as it's a single speed, >>>>>> or >>>>>> I can accommodate 2 cogs using some niche, complex technology. I think >>>>>> I'll >>>>>> either settle for a fixed drivetrain (no rear brake, no problem) or get >>>>>> off >>>>>> and walk. Rear rim brake not option since I want to use disc rims. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Oct 17, 2023 at 8:44 AM Coal Bee Rye Anne < >>>>>> lionsrug...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I have no personal experience with single speed disc nor >>>>>>> Rocker/Slider or any of the existing dropout configurations being >>>>>>> discussed >>>>>>> other than keeping a mental catalogue and casual interest of such >>>>>>> things as >>>>>>> I discover them... but what about telescoping chainstays? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I recall seeing a few interesting options including a build that >>>>>>> Rick Hunter did with a bottom bracket positioned wingnut to adjust chain >>>>>>> tension with a form of telescoping chainstay (I forget what that >>>>>>> particular >>>>>>> bike or design was referred to but I think it had a rigid fork, 26+ >>>>>>> tires, >>>>>>> disc brakes, upright riser Hunter bars, and a cow pattern custom frame >>>>>>> bag... in case that helps ID it or dig something up for further review >>>>>>> from >>>>>>> the interwebs!) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Another is the design currently used by Cjell Mone of Mone Bikes >>>>>>> referred to as the Mone Changer. I couldn't find an actual page >>>>>>> discussing >>>>>>> or highlighting the chainstay design itself but believe he builds them >>>>>>> into >>>>>>> various frames as requested. Here's a snippet from the FAQ page on his >>>>>>> site. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> How do I work them Monē Changer dropouts? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - Remember, there are 5 (not 4, don't forget the caliper adaptor >>>>>>> ones) bolts to loosen. To lengthen, sit on the saddle and hold the rear >>>>>>> brake, give a couple gentle bounces...that should do it. To shorten, get >>>>>>> your chain started on your single speed cog and chainring and pedal it >>>>>>> around. straighten the tire in the chainstays and tighten 6 bolts. If >>>>>>> you're running gears your penance is putting the bike in the stand, >>>>>>> throwing a foot on the BB and pulling the rim to the front. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Since you are going the custom route for this hypothetical bike I >>>>>>> figured I'd add these possibilities to the mix : ) >>>>>>> On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 6:12:06 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thinking out loud; help me clarify my thoughts. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think of devising a Monocog replacement, with 622X76/29X3" >>>>>>>> wheels, but instead of a mono cog, with a duo cog. This hypothetical >>>>>>>> bike >>>>>>>> would have disc brakes. I don't want to use a chain tensioner, and I >>>>>>>> prefer >>>>>>>> to take advantage of the greater gear ratio differences between cogs of >>>>>>>> different sizes compared to rings with the same tooth differences, and >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> the consequent smaller axle movement required to adjust chain slack, >>>>>>>> so the >>>>>>>> multiple cogs would be in the back and not on the crank. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On my beloved 1999 Joe Starck Riv Road Custom fixie I use a 17/19 >>>>>>>> Dingle on a Phil hub with a QR axle; it's very easy to stop, flip the >>>>>>>> QR >>>>>>>> lever, move the chain, align the wheel, and tighten the QR. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That's what I imagine for the Monocog replacement. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 1. Disc brakes. But this bike would have disc brakes. I'd probably >>>>>>>> not need more than a 2-t cog difference, but will your typical >>>>>>>> caliper/rotor setup accept the 1/4" axle movement? (1/8" of axle >>>>>>>> movement >>>>>>>> is required -- so they say; I've never measured it and take it on >>>>>>>> faith -- >>>>>>>> to accomodate a 1 tooth sprocket difference.) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 2. Two cogs. How to get 2 cogs onto a suitable "ss" hub with a >>>>>>>> freewheel. The DIngle isn't made anymore and in any event wasn't made >>>>>>>> -- am >>>>>>>> I right? -- with 2-teeth gaps. The Monocog has a freehub designed to >>>>>>>> take 1 >>>>>>>> single Shimano-spline-type cog; there's no room for a second cog. >>>>>>>> >>>What >>>>>>>> options does one have to get 2 cogs with a 2-tooth difference onto a >>>>>>>> hub >>>>>>>> suitable for a QR axle? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I realize that I could just use an old 7 speed Shimano freehub, and >>>>>>>> I might end up doing that, but I'd prefer to have a hub that does not >>>>>>>> require a wide stack of spacers. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 3. Axle type and dropouts/trackends/thru-axle holes. I know that >>>>>>>> long forward-facing horizontal dropouts, a QR axle, and a hub with 2 >>>>>>>> cogs >>>>>>>> on 1 side allows very easy manual shifting, as this sort of shifting >>>>>>>> goes. >>>>>>>> I am also pretty sure that a good builder can use 135 mm OL spacing and >>>>>>>> still give me the stay clearance I need for true 3" tires, so I'm >>>>>>>> inclined >>>>>>>> to stick with this very old-fashioned wheel attachment method. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> But if there are other wheel attachment methods that allow you to >>>>>>>> easily move the chain from one cog to another, I'd be interested to >>>>>>>> learn >>>>>>>> about them. Sliding dropouts? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Are there any other things to consider ? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks, Patrick Moore, who had a nice ride to church and back today >>>>>>>> on a pretty Fall day riding the Monocog with 72 mm tires and a single >>>>>>>> 65" >>>>>>>> gear despite the bosque trail sand and the rear tire knobs occasionally >>>>>>>> "whisping" on the chainstays (I fixed seatstay clearance with a >>>>>>>> hammer). >>>>>>>> The Silca Impero with Campy head and the Road-style BB7s pulled by >>>>>>>> non-aero >>>>>>>> DC levers are ironic but in fact work very well. When braking from the >>>>>>>> hoods you simply pull from a bit lower down on the lever; and the >>>>>>>> Impero's >>>>>>>> fat barrel moves lots of air fast into low pressure tires; 13 psi this >>>>>>>> morning and it could have been lower. >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> Patrick Moore >>>>>>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other >>>>>>>> writing services. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *When thou didst not, savage,* >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *Know thine own meaning, but wouldst gabble like* >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *A thing most brutish, I endowed thy purposes* >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *With words that made them known.* >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/a991d3aa-5236-4990-a1a1-65528196c0b9n%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/a991d3aa-5236-4990-a1a1-65528196c0b9n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> Patrick Moore >>>>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum >>>>>> >>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> >>>>>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other >>>>>> writing services. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> >>>>>> *When thou didst not, savage,* >>>>>> >>>>>> *Know thine own meaning, but wouldst gabble like* >>>>>> >>>>>> *A thing most brutish, I endowed thy purposes* >>>>>> >>>>>> *With words that made them known.* >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/fe30b462-2932-4edb-b589-9237af7776f9n%40googlegroups.com >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/fe30b462-2932-4edb-b589-9237af7776f9n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> Patrick Moore >>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum >>>> >>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing >>>> services. >>>> >>>> >>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> *When thou didst not, savage,* >>>> >>>> *Know thine own meaning, but wouldst gabble like* >>>> >>>> *A thing most brutish, I endowed thy purposes* >>>> >>>> *With words that made them known.* >>>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >>> >> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/544a96ac-802f-4dd5-9c4a-03f355575611n%40googlegroups.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/544a96ac-802f-4dd5-9c4a-03f355575611n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> >> >> -- >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Patrick Moore >> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing >> services. >> >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> *When thou didst not, savage,* >> >> *Know thine own meaning, but wouldst gabble like* >> >> *A thing most brutish, I endowed thy purposes* >> >> *With words that made them known.* >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/e104df99-c827-4ec0-ae0e-055b55f1ead0n%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/e104df99-c827-4ec0-ae0e-055b55f1ead0n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing services. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- *When thou didst not, savage,* *Know thine own meaning, but wouldst gabble like* *A thing most brutish, I endowed thy purposes* *With words that made them known.* -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 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