Re: Debian default desktop environment

This one time, at band camp, Thomas Goirand said: > Then, maybe a GR for deciding which DE should be the default could be > considered. It's not like the init system: I think every DD has enough > knowledge to decide, especially because this is a very subjective choice > with tastes and habits invo

Re: Debian default desktop environment

John Holland dijo [Fri, Apr 04, 2014 at 07:27:11PM -0400]: > How about something completely different: Enlinghtenment? > > No, I'm not kidding If we are offering users something different, we should go for technical excellence. And I have never seen a group where tiling window managers ar

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On 04/04/2014 10:42 PM, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: > On Fri, Apr 04, 2014 at 02:52:41PM +0100, Jonathan Dowland wrote: >> We go over the same ground over and over. I'm increasingly in favour of *no* >> default. You must pick one from a list on install. Randomize the list if >> necessary. > > And ca

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On 04/04/2014 09:55 PM, Undefined User wrote: > 2014-04-04 10:52 GMT-03:00 Jonathan Dowland >: > > We go over the same ground over and over. I'm increasingly in favour > of *no* > default. You must pick one from a list on install. Randomize the list if > ne

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On Sat, Apr 05, 2014 at 12:36:30AM +0100, Philip Hands wrote: > Undefined User writes: > > > 2014-04-04 19:52 GMT-03:00 Philip Hands : > > > >> pointless discussion > > > > First of all, great attitude, my friend. It seems like you are a very > > reasonable person. Second, pointless discussion? S

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On Sat, Apr 05, 2014 at 12:32:45AM +0100, Roger Lynn wrote: > On 04/04/14 00:50, Stephen Allen wrote: > > On Fri, Apr 04, 2014 at 08:18:41AM +1100, Dmitry Smirnov wrote: > >> I think Xfce is much better *default* desktop environment (DE) than Gnome. > >> > >> As KDE fan I do not like Gnome. Those

Re: shebang (was Re: systemd - some more considerations)

Hi, Thorsten Glaser: > tglase@tglase:~ $ cat x > #?/usr/bin/python > import sys > print sys.version > tglase@tglase:~ $ ls -l x > -rwxr-xr-x 1 tglase tglase 47 Apr 4 12:54 x > tglase@tglase:~ $ ./x > import.im6: unable to grab mouse ': Resource temporarily unavailable @ > error/xwindow.c/XSelect

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On 04/04/14 00:50, Stephen Allen wrote: > On Fri, Apr 04, 2014 at 08:18:41AM +1100, Dmitry Smirnov wrote: >> I think Xfce is much better *default* desktop environment (DE) than Gnome. >> >> As KDE fan I do not like Gnome. Those who forget to choose DE in installer >> (just like I did more than on

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On Fri, Apr 04, 2014 at 23:52 +0100, Philip Hands wrote: > Wolodja Wentland writes: > ... > > One thing I dislike about switching the default DE is that it puts a lot of > > people active in support in a position in which they might not actually be > > as > > familiar with the DE they will end up

Re: Debian default desktop environment

2014-04-04 20:36 GMT-03:00 Philip Hands : > As for my grumpy tone, I apologise for that -- it probably comes from > the several voluminous threads on debian-devel recently spouting drivel > about systemd which I may have unfairly associated with this thread. > Philip, I would like to thank you fo

Re: Debian default desktop environment

Undefined User writes: > 2014-04-04 19:52 GMT-03:00 Philip Hands : > >> pointless discussion > > First of all, great attitude, my friend. It seems like you are a very > reasonable person. Second, pointless discussion? So all these people here > are just wasting time? Well... What can I say? That'

Re: Debian default desktop environment

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 How about something completely different: Enlinghtenment? No, I'm not kidding -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTPz/PAAoJEPCIPbSVUc8t+JMH/j+XBHlroA4pXgEFtzWl2FuI Ah18G6h5kbdqNQgEabwX/sQDCY15ThxM/W

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On 04/04/14 21:38, Marc Haber wrote: > On Fri, 04 Apr 2014 10:28:26 -0700, Russ Allbery > wrote: >> Sune Vuorela writes: >> >>> Part of me wants to have KDE Plasma Desktop as the default workspace, >>> because it is completely awesome. >> >>> Other parts of me is happy that it is not the default

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On 05/04/14 00:52, Philip Hands wrote: > Anyway, to return to the main point, I do wonder why nobody has bothered > to mention that the reason for the switch was that Gnome no longer fits > on CD#1. If that were true, we could surely fix it. If it were true. Emilio -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to

Re: Debian default desktop environment

2014-04-04 19:52 GMT-03:00 Philip Hands : > pointless discussion First of all, great attitude, my friend. It seems like you are a very reasonable person. Second, pointless discussion? So all these people here are just wasting time? Well... What can I say? That's your point of view and I have to

Re: Debian default desktop environment

Wolodja Wentland writes: ... > One thing I dislike about switching the default DE is that it puts a lot of > people active in support in a position in which they might not actually be as > familiar with the DE they will end up supporting most frequently simply by > having learned a different "defa

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On Fri, Apr 04, 2014 at 16:19 +0100, Jonathan Dowland wrote: > On Fri, Apr 04, 2014 at 04:42:19PM +0200, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: > > And can I pass my granddad's phone call on to you when he is stuck > > choosing among names that are absolutely obscure to him like "GNOME", > > "Xfce", and "KDE"?

Re: Deprecating/removing racoon/ipsec-tools from Debian GNU/Linux and racoon from Debian/kfreebsd

On Fri, Apr 04, 2014 at 12:59:35PM +1300, Matt Grant wrote: > Systemd package support is the thing that pushed me over the edge about > this. There are no systemd unit files at all for ipsec-tools/racoon > that I know of. Please advise me otherwise, and I will look at putting > them in the current

Re: Bug#743656: ITP: memoizable -- A gem that offers Memoization is an optimization that saves the return value of a method so it doesn't need to be re-computed every time that method is called.

Control: reassign -1 wnpp On Vi, 04 apr 14, 23:25:42, Danial Jose wrote: > package: memoizable > Severity: wishlist > Owner: 'Danial José' > > *Package Name : memoizable > Version : 0.3.2 > Upstream Author : Dan Kubb, Erik Michaels-Ober (Author name/s of the Gem). > *URL : https://github.com/

Re: Debian default desktop environment

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 04/04/2014 03:39 PM, Marc Haber wrote: > On Fri, 04 Apr 2014 10:04:37 -0400, The Wanderer > wrote: > >> (Depending on context, of course; in a Web forum where the message >> being replied to is probably still visible when reading the reply, >>

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On Fri, 04 Apr 2014 10:04:37 -0400, The Wanderer wrote: >(Depending on context, of course; in a Web forum where the message being >replied to is probably still visible when reading the reply, quoting >would be inapproriate. But we're talking about E-mail here.) And e-mail threading wasn't invente

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On Fri, 04 Apr 2014 10:28:26 -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: >Sune Vuorela writes: > >> Part of me wants to have KDE Plasma Desktop as the default workspace, >> because it is completely awesome. > >> Other parts of me is happy that it is not the default because then we >> don't have all sorts of weird

Re: Debian default desktop environment

El 03/04/14 22:15, Norbert Preining escribió: > On Thu, 03 Apr 2014, Stephen Allen wrote: >> Like the OP - I didn't like Gnome-Shell at first, but after giving it a >> month I really started enjoying it. It's also mature and being worked on >> extensively. Not something one can say about Xfce4 at t

Re: Debian default desktop environment

Hi, On Freitag, 4. April 2014, Russ Allbery wrote: > We should change the default desktop environment with each release so that > each maintenance team gets to share in the fun! It's like a giant hazing > ritual. :) wow, the quality of debian-devel has really degraded. Russ starts trolling...

Re: Debian default desktop environment

2014-04-04 14:46 GMT-03:00 Amy Rice : > Is it a bad idea in the end not to include a desktop at all, > and the user can install one at their own discretion? The Debian Installer lets you choose if you want to install a desktop environment or not. By default it comes checked (so it will be instal

Re: Debian default desktop environment

Is it a bad idea in the end not to include a desktop at all, and the user can install one at their own discretion? On 4/4/2014 8:55 AM, Undefined User wrote: > Perfect solution. > > Debian installer should provide you information about desktop > environments and let the user choose it. > > > 2014-

Re: Debian default desktop environment

Sune Vuorela writes: > Part of me wants to have KDE Plasma Desktop as the default workspace, > because it is completely awesome. > Other parts of me is happy that it is not the default because then we > don't have all sorts of weird wishes about "oh noes. networkmanager" or > "Please use this no

Re: Debian default desktop environment

previously on this list people contributed: >> Why then install an alternative at all. Experienced users install what >> they want anyways. The DEs working best for "unexperienced" users would >> be the DEs that do much work themselves, Xfce allows more options and choice by default on a cd and u

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On 04.04.2014 17:15, Hashem Nasarat wrote: > On the other hand, experienced users are familiar enough to install > whichever environment they wish. Perhaps a compromise is to have GNOME > the default and then XFCE as a bare-bones GUI or something. Why then install an alternative at all. Experience

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On Fri, Apr 04, 2014 at 04:42:19PM +0200, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: > And can I pass my granddad's phone call on to you when he is stuck > choosing among names that are absolutely obscure to him like "GNOME", > "Xfce", and "KDE"? No, just say pick a random one. Surely they'll all be entirely appro

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On 04/04/2014 10:36 AM, Stephan Seitz wrote: > On Fri, Apr 04, 2014 at 04:13:27PM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote: >> Le vendredi 04 avril 2014 à 15:25 +0200, Stephan Seitz a écrit : >>> and modern hardware. >> This is no longer a requirement in jessie, at least on x86 where >> llvmpipe is now accept

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On 2014-04-03, Dmitry Smirnov wrote: > As KDE fan I do not like Gnome. Those who forget to choose DE in instal= > ler=20 Part of me wants to have KDE Plasma Desktop as the default workspace, because it is completely awesome. Other parts of me is happy that it is not the default because then we d

getting rid of md5 hashes

Hi, as I've just been affected by "#700266 fetchmail: --sslfingerprint uses MD5" I wonder if someone is tracking all the bugs related to using md5 hashes kind of like how we track bugs in software not supporting ipv6. User debian-secur...@lists.debian.org Usertag 700266 md5 maybe? cheers,

Re: Debian default desktop environment

2014-04-04 11:04 GMT-03:00 The Wanderer : > Actually, for all that top-posting is a sin, failing to quote at all > when replying is AFAIK generally considered even worse... > > (Depending on context, of course; in a Web forum where the message being > replied to is probably still visible when read

Re: Debian default desktop environment

2014-04-04 11:42 GMT-03:00 Stefano Zacchiroli : > And can I pass my granddad's phone call on to you when he is stuck > choosing among names that are absolutely obscure to him like "GNOME", > "Xfce", and "KDE"? > Not giving the user a taste of the options, well... Yes, I agree, it's pretty hard to

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On Fri, Apr 04, 2014 at 02:52:41PM +0100, Jonathan Dowland wrote: > We go over the same ground over and over. I'm increasingly in favour of *no* > default. You must pick one from a list on install. Randomize the list if > necessary. And can I pass my granddad's phone call on to you when he is stuc

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On Fri, Apr 04, 2014 at 04:13:27PM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote: Le vendredi 04 avril 2014 à 15:25 +0200, Stephan Seitz a écrit : and modern hardware. This is no longer a requirement in jessie, at least on x86 where llvmpipe is now accepted as a GL engine. Ah, thank you. The default deskto

Re: Debian default desktop environment

Le vendredi 04 avril 2014 à 15:25 +0200, Stephan Seitz a écrit : > As far as I understand Gnome3 needs more resources than XFCE This is mostly irrelevant. The resources consumed by the desktop are negligible compared to applications. As soon as you start a browser with a few tabs on non-trivial

Re: Debian default desktop environment

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 04/04/2014 09:57 AM, Undefined User wrote: > Sorry for not deleting the reply text over my last e-mail. Actually, for all that top-posting is a sin, failing to quote at all when replying is AFAIK generally considered even worse... (Depending on

Re: Debian default desktop environment

Sorry for not deleting the reply text over my last e-mail.

Re: Debian default desktop environment

Perfect solution. Debian installer should provide you information about desktop environments and let the user choose it. 2014-04-04 10:52 GMT-03:00 Jonathan Dowland : > We go over the same ground over and over. I'm increasingly in favour of > *no* > default. You must pick one from a list on ins

Re: Debian default desktop environment

We go over the same ground over and over. I'm increasingly in favour of *no* default. You must pick one from a list on install. Randomize the list if necessary. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.de

Re: Debian default desktop environment

[Please don't top post on this mailing list.] On Fri, Apr 04, 2014 at 10:03:46AM -0300, Undefined User wrote: > Well, it's almost impossible to avoid personal judgments on this matter. > This involves personal taste. But when talking about "new users" or > "not-that-advanced users", I'm really sug

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On Fri, Apr 04, 2014 at 10:03:46AM -0300, Undefined User wrote: This involves personal taste. But when talking about "new users" or "not-that-advanced users", I'm really suggesting Gnome 3 to be the choice of the project. But what are your definitions of „new users”? Someone who has never used

Re: Debian default desktop environment

previously on this list Undefined User contributed: > It's not about Gnome, Xfce or whatever desktop environment being focused > only on touchscreen devices or identical to a mobile platform (that would > be terrible for everyone), but at least something that doesn't make people > think that Debia

Re: Debian default desktop environment

Well, it's almost impossible to avoid personal judgments on this matter. This involves personal taste. But when talking about "new users" or "not-that-advanced users", I'm really suggesting Gnome 3 to be the choice of the project. I know that its size is bigger than Xfce and it takes more resource

Re: shebang (was Re: systemd - some more considerations)

On Fri, Apr 04, 2014 at 02:04:32PM +0200, Salvo Tomaselli wrote: > > > Sure. I’ve patched mksh > > > > mksh doesn't count as a reference. > Did you even read before replying? He patched it to use #? Instead of #! that > was using. > He was sure about it being there because he had patched it to b

Re: shebang

On Fri, Apr 04, 2014 at 02:00:46PM +0200, Thorsten Glaser wrote: > > I'm interested where POSIX says what you are sure it says (that the > > shell is responsible for evaluating #!). > > I said the shell is supposed to, and suggested to search POSIX, but > I wasn’t sure that it was POSIX standardis

Re: shebang (was Re: systemd - some more considerations)

In data venerdì 04 aprile 2014 17.38.12, Andrey Rahmatullin ha scritto: > > Sure. I’ve patched mksh > > mksh doesn't count as a reference. Did you even read before replying? He patched it to use #? Instead of #! that was using. He was sure about it being there because he had patched it to behave

Re: shebang (was Re: systemd - some more considerations)

* Thorsten Glaser , 2014-04-04, 12:58: Try duckduckgoïng instead ☻ or searching POSIX, or something. SUSv4 “helpfully” says: If the first line of a file of shell commands starts with the characters "#!", the results are unspecified. -- Jakub Wilk -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-r

Re: shebang

On Fri, 4 Apr 2014, Ansgar Burchardt wrote: > I'm interested where POSIX says what you are sure it says (that the > shell is responsible for evaluating #!). I said the shell is supposed to, and suggested to search POSIX, but I wasn’t sure that it was POSIX standardised, and never said so. As you

Re: shebang (was Re: systemd - some more considerations)

Hi, Thorsten Glaser writes: > On Fri, 4 Apr 2014, Chow Loong Jin wrote: > >> Are you sure about this? > > Yes. > >> Some references would be helpful. I can't seem to find anything on this >> through > > Sure. I’ve patched mksh to use “#?” ipv “#!” as shebang, to > simulate a kernel not supportin

Re: shebang (was Re: systemd - some more considerations)

On Fri, Apr 04, 2014 at 12:58:23PM +0200, Thorsten Glaser wrote: > > Are you sure about this? > > Yes. > > > Some references would be helpful. I can't seem to find anything on this > > through > > Sure. I’ve patched mksh mksh doesn't count as a reference. > > some cursory googling. > Try duck

shebang (was Re: systemd - some more considerations)

On Fri, 4 Apr 2014, Chow Loong Jin wrote: > Are you sure about this? Yes. > Some references would be helpful. I can't seem to find anything on this > through Sure. I’ve patched mksh to use “#?” ipv “#!” as shebang, to simulate a kernel not supporting the shebang: Index: exec.c ===

Re: systemd - some more considerations

In other news for Fri, Apr 04, 2014 at 05:24:50PM +0800, Chow Loong Jin has been seen typing: > On Fri, Apr 04, 2014 at 08:27:01AM +, Thorsten Glaser wrote: > > Chow Loong Jin debian.org> writes: > > Yes, and /bin/sh is supposed to parse the shebang and call out to > > the interpreter. AFAIC

Re: systemd - some more considerations

Chow Loong Jin wrote... > Some references would be helpful. I can't seem to find anything on this > through > some cursory googling. Perl scripts, when installed by ExtUtils::MakeMaker or similar, do have | eval 'exec /usr/bin/perl -S $0 ${1+"$@"}' | if 0; # not running under some shell i

Re: systemd - some more considerations

On Fri, Apr 04, 2014 at 08:27:01AM +, Thorsten Glaser wrote: > > For the record, there's CONFIG_BINFMT_SCRIPT, which when disabled, causes > all > > #! scripts to be run under /bin/sh unconditionally. > > > > *everything* runs under /bin/sh, including Perl, Python, and Bash scripts. > > Yes,

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On Fri, Apr 04, 2014 at 08:18:41AM +1100, Dmitry Smirnov wrote: > On Thu, 3 Apr 2014 14:16:15 Undefined User wrote: > > The problem is that right now Debian project is changing its default > > desktop environment, and I think that this is not a good move. Of course, > > it all depends on where the

Re: systemd - some more considerations

On Fri, Apr 04, 2014 at 08:27:01AM +, Thorsten Glaser wrote: > Chow Loong Jin debian.org> writes: > > > For the record, there's CONFIG_BINFMT_SCRIPT, which when disabled, causes > all > > #! scripts to be run under /bin/sh unconditionally. > > > > *everything* runs under /bin/sh, including P

Re: systemd - some more considerations

Chow Loong Jin debian.org> writes: > For the record, there's CONFIG_BINFMT_SCRIPT, which when disabled, causes all > #! scripts to be run under /bin/sh unconditionally. > > *everything* runs under /bin/sh, including Perl, Python, and Bash scripts. Yes, and /bin/sh is supposed to parse the sheba