Re: Next steps? (was Re: Is trinidad ready for graduation ?)
+1.. Thing to decide now is TLP or as subproject of MyFaces. Main thing is focus to decide on what to do : - People on MyFaces equally care about and work on Trinidad - People on Trinidad equally care about MyFaces MyFaces == the code base, not the TLP project. People working on Trinidad wouldn't necessarily be interested in working on the MyFaces code base. Giving oversight in an umbrella project will get harder and harder over time, which in the end does end up in a fragmented PMC. Which means that people on the PMC just have focus on eg MyFaces, tomahawk, Tobago or Trinidad. If you are a on the PMC you should care about all of these subprojects. In short : I favor TLP. Mvgr, Martin Matthias Wessendorf wrote: on our march reports, Jukka was asking: snip Things to do before graduation? /snip checking the checklist (briefly) it looks like we are set ... -M On 3/26/07, Matthias Wessendorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 3/19/07, Matthias Wessendorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Martin, your email states that this group should at least manage to get the release of the plugins out. I did. Currently this group is waiting for an approval to release the CORE as well. was approved and already released :-) One item, we need to check is Project ready to comply with ASF mirroring guidlines I will look at MyFaces, how we do it there, shouldn't be that big deal. posted to /www/people.apache.org/dis/incubator, as suggested here @GUMP: we use(d) continuum (was reseted currently) that should be ok?! What is your current thinking about this group? Start a vote? Fix the missing items? Wait for approval for CORE ? So, what is the next step ? A vote here on this list ? I think, we also need to run a vote on the MyFaces PMC, to accept Trinidad as one of their subprojects. I'll do that vote as well, when time comes ;-) -Matthias Thanks! Matthias On 2/10/07, Martin van den Bemt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In short : according to me they are.. Any feedback and additions appreciated.. On note : I like to see that at least the plugins get a release before we start a vote on dev (and I expressed below that you are targetting to have a release of core before leaving the incubator, although that could be a misunderstanding) If everyone agrees on dev, we start a vote on the incubator general list and after that on the MyFaces private list. Exit strategy probably needs to be discussed with the MyFaces crowd (like mailinglists) and they probably need to have votes on people on the trinidad ppmc list that are not yet on the MyFaces PMC (but that's up to the MyFaces PMC). I'll subscribe to the private myfaces list (in case you didn't know : I can as a member, which doesn't actually mean that I am on that PMC or have a binding vote there). The very long version : To determine if Trinidad is ready to leave the incubator I took http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Exiting+the+Incubator and tried to answer all the questions. The first 3 on that page are actually the last ones, since I am treating them more as general conclusions. Legal * All code ASL'ed Looking at https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/ADFFACES-355 it is solved. Most important is that before the release everything is ok, so that check needs to be done before a release (eg by using RAT, mojo.codehaus.org is working on a maven2 plugin atm). * No non ASL or ASL compatbile dependencies in the code base Don't see any problems here (just checked the deps in the poms). * License grant complete Yep * CLAs on file. Yep. Even people who submitted patches were asked to file a CLA. * Check of project name for trademark issues Was tried, but since no one as access to the trademark database, it has hard to determine. Meritocracy / Community * Demonstrate an active and diverse development community The community is very active, people send in patches that get applied, user community is a bit behind, but that should grow ones Trinidad is released. * The project is not highly dependent on any single contributor (there's at least 3 legally independent committers and there is no single company or entity that is vital to the success of the project) The main contributors are all employed by Oracle (based on the *commits* since end of December). These are matzew, jwaldman and awiner. gcrawford - Oracle jfallows- Not oracle anymore mmarinschek - Irian (?) slessard- DMR Consulting Inc (?) baranda - ? Mentors / champions craigmcc- Sun mvdb- Ordina (I don't count myself as a committer though) mgeiler - ? (not oracle afaik) Looking at the above list, it could mean a worry, which will be a lot less worry looking at the rest of the exit list. * The
Re: Next steps? (was Re: Is trinidad ready for graduation ?)
I'm in favor of MyFaces for Trinidad. I would like to see Trinidad as the basis for Tomahawk JSF 1.2. However, if there is no interest in merging Tomahawk and Trinidad, then going with a TLP would be better. Right now, Tobago is in the state you described below -- You're either using Tobago (and no other component set), or you're using Tomahawk and other component sets. It's next to impossible to have oversight over both projects since Tobago is mutually-exclusive of other component sets. At one point, the Tobago people were interested in making Tobago more compatible with Tomahawk and other component sets, but discussion on how that would happen ever materialized beyond my initial questions. On 4/7/07, Martin van den Bemt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: +1.. Thing to decide now is TLP or as subproject of MyFaces. Main thing is focus to decide on what to do : - People on MyFaces equally care about and work on Trinidad - People on Trinidad equally care about MyFaces MyFaces == the code base, not the TLP project. People working on Trinidad wouldn't necessarily be interested in working on the MyFaces code base. Giving oversight in an umbrella project will get harder and harder over time, which in the end does end up in a fragmented PMC. Which means that people on the PMC just have focus on eg MyFaces, tomahawk, Tobago or Trinidad. If you are a on the PMC you should care about all of these subprojects. In short : I favor TLP. Mvgr, Martin Matthias Wessendorf wrote: on our march reports, Jukka was asking: snip Things to do before graduation? /snip checking the checklist (briefly) it looks like we are set ... -M On 3/26/07, Matthias Wessendorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 3/19/07, Matthias Wessendorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Martin, your email states that this group should at least manage to get the release of the plugins out. I did. Currently this group is waiting for an approval to release the CORE as well. was approved and already released :-) One item, we need to check is Project ready to comply with ASF mirroring guidlines I will look at MyFaces, how we do it there, shouldn't be that big deal. posted to /www/people.apache.org/dis/incubator, as suggested here @GUMP: we use(d) continuum (was reseted currently) that should be ok?! What is your current thinking about this group? Start a vote? Fix the missing items? Wait for approval for CORE ? So, what is the next step ? A vote here on this list ? I think, we also need to run a vote on the MyFaces PMC, to accept Trinidad as one of their subprojects. I'll do that vote as well, when time comes ;-) -Matthias Thanks! Matthias On 2/10/07, Martin van den Bemt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In short : according to me they are.. Any feedback and additions appreciated.. On note : I like to see that at least the plugins get a release before we start a vote on dev (and I expressed below that you are targetting to have a release of core before leaving the incubator, although that could be a misunderstanding) If everyone agrees on dev, we start a vote on the incubator general list and after that on the MyFaces private list. Exit strategy probably needs to be discussed with the MyFaces crowd (like mailinglists) and they probably need to have votes on people on the trinidad ppmc list that are not yet on the MyFaces PMC (but that's up to the MyFaces PMC). I'll subscribe to the private myfaces list (in case you didn't know : I can as a member, which doesn't actually mean that I am on that PMC or have a binding vote there). The very long version : To determine if Trinidad is ready to leave the incubator I took http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Exiting+the+Incubator and tried to answer all the questions. The first 3 on that page are actually the last ones, since I am treating them more as general conclusions. Legal * All code ASL'ed Looking at https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/ADFFACES-355 it is solved. Most important is that before the release everything is ok, so that check needs to be done before a release (eg by using RAT, mojo.codehaus.org is working on a maven2 plugin atm). * No non ASL or ASL compatbile dependencies in the code base Don't see any problems here (just checked the deps in the poms). * License grant complete Yep * CLAs on file. Yep. Even people who submitted patches were asked to file a CLA. * Check of project name for trademark issues Was tried, but since no one as access to the trademark database, it has hard to determine. Meritocracy / Community * Demonstrate an active and diverse development community The community is very active, people send in patches that get applied, user community is a bit behind, but that should grow ones Trinidad is released. * The project is not highly
Re: Next steps? (was Re: Is trinidad ready for graduation ?)
Just a disclaimer : this is not an attack on you personally or a statement the the MyFaces Project is broken, just like to prevent that it becomes broken :) Mike Kienenberger wrote: I'm in favor of MyFaces for Trinidad. I would like to see Trinidad as the basis for Tomahawk JSF 1.2. So in this sense you are saying that we just incubated Tomahawk for JSF 1.2 ? When Trinidad becomes TLP it is for them to decide if they want that to happen (based on your proposal), if they go to the MyFaces TLP, it is not just their call. Which in the end (you gave an example of that) will end up in not a decision being made at all. If you think the Tomahawk developers / community have more in common than with the MyFaces developers, you should probably join Trinidad ;). Not the other way around.. However, if there is no interest in merging Tomahawk and Trinidad, then going with a TLP would be better. Even if there is interest, a TLP would not prevent a merge of the two, unless Trinidad doesn't want to or the MyFaces PMC doesn't want to. If all Tomahawk developers would like to merge with Trinidad and Trinidad wants to and the MyFaces PMC doesn't, there are other issues :) Right now, Tobago is in the state you described below -- You're either using Tobago (and no other component set), or you're using Tomahawk and other component sets. It's next to impossible to have oversight over both projects since Tobago is mutually-exclusive of other component sets. At one point, the Tobago people were interested in making Tobago more compatible with Tomahawk and other component sets, but discussion on how that would happen ever materialized beyond my initial questions. This is something that needs to be solved at MyFaces. If you wait too long, it cannot be fixed anymore (eg no one left to care about Tobago). Mvgr, Martin
Re: Next steps? (was Re: Is trinidad ready for graduation ?)
On 4/7/07, Mike Kienenberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm in favor of MyFaces for Trinidad. I would like to see Trinidad as the basis for Tomahawk JSF 1.2. However, if there is no interest in merging Tomahawk and Trinidad, then going with a TLP would be better. Right now, Tobago is in the state you described below -- You're either using Tobago (and no other component set), or you're using Tomahawk and other component sets. It's next to impossible to have oversight over both projects since Tobago is mutually-exclusive of other component sets. At one point, the Tobago people were interested in making Tobago more compatible with Tomahawk and other component sets, but discussion on how that would happen ever materialized beyond my initial questions. FWIW, I think Trinidad is more compatible with Tomahawk then Tobago is... they don't work perfectly together, but I'd very much like to see the incompatibilities resolved. Whether we should merge the components - I don't know. But I do think we could get some code sharing and common framework work applied. (State saving, skinning, and client-side validation come to mind). So, I'd prefer a subproject to a TLP. -- Adam On 4/7/07, Martin van den Bemt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: +1.. Thing to decide now is TLP or as subproject of MyFaces. Main thing is focus to decide on what to do : - People on MyFaces equally care about and work on Trinidad - People on Trinidad equally care about MyFaces MyFaces == the code base, not the TLP project. People working on Trinidad wouldn't necessarily be interested in working on the MyFaces code base. Giving oversight in an umbrella project will get harder and harder over time, which in the end does end up in a fragmented PMC. Which means that people on the PMC just have focus on eg MyFaces, tomahawk, Tobago or Trinidad. If you are a on the PMC you should care about all of these subprojects. In short : I favor TLP. Mvgr, Martin Matthias Wessendorf wrote: on our march reports, Jukka was asking: snip Things to do before graduation? /snip checking the checklist (briefly) it looks like we are set ... -M On 3/26/07, Matthias Wessendorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 3/19/07, Matthias Wessendorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Martin, your email states that this group should at least manage to get the release of the plugins out. I did. Currently this group is waiting for an approval to release the CORE as well. was approved and already released :-) One item, we need to check is Project ready to comply with ASF mirroring guidlines I will look at MyFaces, how we do it there, shouldn't be that big deal. posted to /www/people.apache.org/dis/incubator, as suggested here @GUMP: we use(d) continuum (was reseted currently) that should be ok?! What is your current thinking about this group? Start a vote? Fix the missing items? Wait for approval for CORE ? So, what is the next step ? A vote here on this list ? I think, we also need to run a vote on the MyFaces PMC, to accept Trinidad as one of their subprojects. I'll do that vote as well, when time comes ;-) -Matthias Thanks! Matthias On 2/10/07, Martin van den Bemt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In short : according to me they are.. Any feedback and additions appreciated.. On note : I like to see that at least the plugins get a release before we start a vote on dev (and I expressed below that you are targetting to have a release of core before leaving the incubator, although that could be a misunderstanding) If everyone agrees on dev, we start a vote on the incubator general list and after that on the MyFaces private list. Exit strategy probably needs to be discussed with the MyFaces crowd (like mailinglists) and they probably need to have votes on people on the trinidad ppmc list that are not yet on the MyFaces PMC (but that's up to the MyFaces PMC). I'll subscribe to the private myfaces list (in case you didn't know : I can as a member, which doesn't actually mean that I am on that PMC or have a binding vote there). The very long version : To determine if Trinidad is ready to leave the incubator I took http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Exiting+the+Incubator and tried to answer all the questions. The first 3 on that page are actually the last ones, since I am treating them more as general conclusions. Legal * All code ASL'ed Looking at https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/ADFFACES-355 it is solved. Most important is that before the release everything is ok, so that check needs to be done before a release (eg by using RAT, mojo.codehaus.org is working on a maven2 plugin atm). * No non ASL or ASL compatbile dependencies in the code base Don't see any problems here (just
