Re: [agi] α, αGproton, Combinatorial Hierarchy, Computational Irreducibility and other things that just don't matter to reaching AGI

[Rob Freeman]

In the corporate training domain, you must have come across Edward de
Bono? I recall he also focuses on discontinuous change and novelty.

Certainly I would say there is broad scope for the application of,
broadly quantum flavoured, AI based insights about meaning in broader
society. Not just project management. But not knowing how your
"Essence" works, I can't comment how much that coincides with what I
see.

There's a lot of woo woo which surrounds quantum, so I try to use
analogies sparingly. But for ways to present it, you might look at Bob
Coecke's books. I believe he has invented a whole visual,
diagrammatic, system for talking about quantum systems. He is proud of
having used it to teach high school students. The best reference for
that might be his book "Picturing Quantum Processes".

Thanks for your interest in reading more about the solutions I see. I
guess I've been lazy in not putting out more formal presentations.
Most of what I have written has been fairly technical, and directed at
language modeling.

The best non-technical summary might be an essay I posted on substack, end '22:

https://robertjohnfreeman.substack.com/p/essay-response-to-question-which

That touches briefly on the broader social implications of subjective
truth, and how a subjective truth which is emergent of objective
structural principles, might provide a new objective social consensus.

On quantum indeterminacy emerging from the complexity of combinations
of perfectly classical and observable elements, I tried to present
myself in contrast to Bob Coecke's top-down quantum grammar approach,
on the Entangled Things podcast:

https://www.entangledthings.com/entangled-things-rob-freeman

You could look at my Facebook group, Oscillating Networks for AI.
Check out my Twitter, @rob_freeman.

Technically, the best summary is probably still my AGI-21
presentation. Here's the workshop version of that, with discussion at
the end:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiVet-b-NM8

On Fri, May 10, 2024 at 9:18 PM Quan Tesla  wrote:
>
> Rob.
>
> Thank you for being candid. My verbage isn't deliberate. I don't seek 
> traction, or funding for what I do. There's no real justification for your 
> mistrust.
>
> Perhaps, let me provide some professional background instead. As an 
> independent researcher, I follow scientific developments among multiple 
> domains, seeking coherence and sense-making for my own scientific endeavor, 
> spanning 25 years. AGI has been a keen interest of mine since 2013. For AGI, 
> I advocate pure machine consciousness, shying away from biotech approaches.
>
> My field of research interest stems from a previous career in cross-cultural 
> training, and the many challenges it presented in the 80's. As 
> designer/administrator/manager and trainer, one could say I fell in love with 
> optimal learning methodologies and associated technologies.
>
> Changing careers, I started in mainframe operating to advance to programming, 
> systems analysis and design, information and business engineering and 
> ultimately contracting consultant. My one, consistent research area remained 
> knowledge engineering, especialky tacit-knowledge engineering. Today, I 
> promote the idea for a campus specializing in quantum systems engineering. 
> I'm generally regarded as being a pracademic of sorts.
>
> Like many of us practitioners here, I too was fortunate to learn with a 
> number of founders and world-class methodologists.
>
> In 1998, my job in banking was researcher/architect to the board of a 5-bank 
> merger, today part of the Barclays Group. As futurist architect and peer 
> reviewer, I was introduced to quantum physics. Specifically, in context of 
> the discovery of the quark.
>
> I realized that future, exponential complexity was approaching, especially 
> for knowledge organizations. I researched possible solutions worldwide, but 
> found none at that time, which concerned me deeply.
>
> Industries seemed to be rushing into the digital revolution without a 
> rekiable, methodological management foundation in place. As architect, I had 
> nothing to offer as a useful, 10-year futures outlook either. I didn't feel 
> competent to be the person to address that apparent gap.
>
> A good colleague of mine was a proven IE methodologist and consultant to IBM 
> Head Office. I approached him twice with my concerns, asking him to adapt his 
> proven IE methodogy to address the advancing future. He didn't take my 
> concerns seriously at all.
>
> For the next year, the future seemed ever-more clearer to me, yet I couldn't 
> find anyone to develop a future aid for enterprises as a roadmap toolkit, or 
> a coping mechanism for a complex-adaptive reality.  The world was hung up on 
> UML and Object oriented technologies.
>
> In desperation, I decided how, even though I probably was less suitable for 
> the job, to develop the future toolkit I had the vision of.
>
> That start was 25 years ago. Today, I have a field tested, hand 

Re: [agi] Ruting Test of AGI

[Matt Mahoney]

An LLM has human like behavior.  Does it pass the Ruting test? How is this
different from the Turing test?

On Fri, May 10, 2024, 9:05 PM Keyvan M. Sadeghi 
wrote:

> The name is a joke, but the test itself is concise and simple, a true
> benchmark.
>
> > If you upload your code in a robot and 1 high IQ person confirms it has
> human-like behavior, you’ve passed the Ruting Test.
> *Artificial General Intelligence List *
> / AGI / see discussions  +
> participants  +
> delivery options 
> Permalink
> 
>

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Re: [agi] Ruting Test of AGI

[Keyvan M. Sadeghi]

High IQ is 145 to 159, according to Google.


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Re: [agi] Ruting Test of AGI

[Keyvan M. Sadeghi]

The name is a joke, but the test itself is concise and simple, a true
benchmark.

> If you upload your code in a robot and 1 high IQ person confirms it has
human-like behavior, you’ve passed the Ruting Test.

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Re: [agi] Ruting Test of AGI

[Keyvan M. Sadeghi]

>
> Ruting is an anagram of Turing?
>

Yeah, too lame? I’ve recently became a father, so I’m generating dad jokes
apparently 

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Re: [agi] Ruting Test of AGI

[Matt Mahoney]

Ruting is an anagram of Turing?

On Thu, May 9, 2024, 8:04 PM Keyvan M. Sadeghi 
wrote:

>
> https://www.linkedin.com/posts/keyvanmsadeghi_agi-activity-7194481824406908928-0ENT
> *Artificial General Intelligence List *
> / AGI / see discussions  +
> participants  +
> delivery options 
> Permalink
> 
>

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Re: [agi] α, αGproton, Combinatorial Hierarchy, Computational Irreducibility and other things that just don't matter to reaching AGI

[Quan Tesla]

Rob

Thank you for being candid. My verbage isn't deliberate. I don't seek
traction, or funding for what I do. There's no real justification for your
mistrust.

Perhaps, let me provide some professional background instead. As an
independent researcher, I follow scientific developments among multiple
domains, seeking coherence and sense-making for my own scientific endeavor,
spanning 25 years. AGI has been a keen interest of mine since 2013. For
AGI, I advocate pure machine consciousness, shying away from biotech
approaches.

My field of research interest stems from a previous career in
cross-cultural training, and the many challenges it presented in the 80's.
As designer/administrator/manager and trainer, one could say I fell in love
with optimal learning methodologies and associated technologies.

Changing careers, I started in mainframe operating to advance to
programming, systems analysis and design, information and business
engineering and ultimately contracting consultant. My one, consistent
research area remained knowledge engineering, especialky tacit-knowledge
engineering. Today, I promote the idea for a campus specializing in quantum
systems engineering. I'm generally regarded as being a pracademic of sorts.

Like many of us practitioners here, I too was fortunate to learn with a
number of founders and world-class methodologists.

In 1998, my job in banking was researcher/architect to the board of a
5-bank merger, today part of the Barclays Group. As futurist architect and
peer reviewer, I was introduced to quantum physics. Specifically, in
context of the discovery of the quark.

I realized that future, exponential complexity was approaching, especially
for knowledge organizations. I researched possible solutions worldwide, but
found none at that time, which concerned me deeply.

Industries seemed to be rushing into the digital revolution without a
rekiable, methodological management foundation in place. As architect, I
had nothing to offer as a useful, 10-year futures outlook either. I didn't
feel competent to be the person to address that apparent gap.

A good colleague of mine was a proven IE methodologist and consultant to
IBM Head Office. I approached him twice with my concerns, asking him to
adapt his proven IE methodogy to address the advancing future. He didn't
take my concerns seriously at all.

For the next year, the future seemed ever-more clearer to me, yet I
couldn't find anyone to develop a future aid for enterprises as a roadmap
toolkit, or a coping mechanism for a complex-adaptive reality.  The world
was hung up on UML and Object oriented technologies.

In desperation, I decided how, even though I probably was less suitable for
the job, to develop the future toolkit I had the vision of.

That start was 25 years ago. Today, I have a field tested, hand
methodology, which if I had to give it a name, I'd call it: "Essence".

As new science emerges, I update it with relevant algorithms and look for a
pro-bono project of sufficient complexity to test it on. E.g., I focused on
establishing a predictable baseline for rhe covid19 experience.

Furthermore, during the last 18 months, I assisted a visiobary in Cleveland
with converting his holistic, 4D diagrammatical representation into mature,
system models. Presently, he's still working on his lexicon.  That was in
support of their community based, Cleveland inner-city rejuvenation
project.

During that test, I added vector specification to the quantum-enabled
systems engineering method. That addition now offers deabstraction
management to X dimensions.

My research continues, my intent being to marry my methodolody with Feynman
diagrams and Haramein's latest unified field theory. My modest
contributions have been published independently, but as publications are,
my public-domain knowledge dates back to 10 years ago. Old stuff.

I do protect my personal IP. The investment was considerable. E g., for the
past 10 years I've been actively involved with informal, applied learning
with a retired prof at NCSU.

We grok the latest thinking and advances. In this manner, I discovered a
new pattern in nature, which we called the Po1 (the pattern of oneness).

This is a fractal-of-fractals pattern, which potentially holds great
promise for future society, inasmuch as helping to extract energy and
matter from space and distributing it around the globe, spacecraft, and
other planets.

Unfortunately, it also holds great promise for warcraft, which I'm
personally not interested in. This view has frustrated progress, as I
refuse to be drawn into speculations about neutron bombs.

As such, I don't discuss details of the Po1, or even write them down. I've
even "brain encrypted" them against remote viewing.

IMO, when I see the frustration on this group by supersmart,
exceptionally-talented, yet stubborn and sometimes short-sighted
individuals, I sometimes feel compelled to try and provide a nudge. Even
Ben can do with it. We all could. After all, we're 

Re: [agi] α, αGproton, Combinatorial Hierarchy, Computational Irreducibility and other things that just don't matter to reaching AGI

[stefan.reich.maker.of.eye via AGI]

On Friday, May 10, 2024, at 6:57 AM, Rob Freeman wrote:
> Quan. You may be talking sense, but you've got to tone down the
buzzwords by a whole bunch. It's suspicious when you jam so many in
together.
You put it very generously :D
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