Re: [OSGeo Oceania] [OSGeo-Conf] Oceania TGP Application

[Darrell Fuhriman]

If there's room in the budget for it, then I'm a +1. I'd love to support
people in the global south to be involved.


On Fri, Oct 14, 2022 at 9:11 PM Luca Delucchi  wrote:

> On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 at 23:25, Alex Leith  wrote:
> >
> > Hi Folks
> >
>
> Dear Alex,
> I'm not part of conference committee yet but,
>
> >
> > To support this program, we are requesting support from the OSGeo Travel
> Grant Fund in the amount of USD$3,500.
> >
>
> looking at the 2022 budget [0] it seems the conference committee has
> 5000$ to spend (since 1 were requested by FOSS4G 2022).  I support
> your request.
>
> > We are pleased to confirm we are prepared to more than match OSGeo's
> contribution with our own funds. OSGeo Oceania has already approved a cash
> contribution of AUD$5000 (approximately USD$3500) and we also hope that
> OSGeo's contribution will act as a 'seed' for other funders, such as NGOs
> and government grants.
> >
> > There is more information available in this document:
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1DYf-nTKN1NI5kAOlZHuLX1hQ750W_b_1/edit#
> (also attached as a PDF for posterity).
> >
> > I look forward to hearing from you.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
>
> [0] https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/OSGeo_Budget_2022
>
> --
> ciao
> Luca
>
> www.lucadelu.org
> ___
> Conference_dev mailing list
> conference_...@lists.osgeo.org
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
>
___
Oceania mailing list
Oceania@lists.osgeo.org
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] OSGeo is becoming irrelevant. Here's why. Let's fix it.

[Darrell Fuhriman]

This is a perfect example.

All of those are great and wonderful things! The community does great and 
wonderful things. That’ s not my point.

My point is, those activities would happen even if the OSGeo Foundation 
disappeared. I’m not questioning whether we have a large and vibrant community, 
we do. And we still would.

My local chapter existed before it was an OSGeo chapter, and we would keep on 
having meetings and doing fun and exciting things even without the OSGeo 
Foundation.

Put another way: The OSGeo Foundation needs the Open Source Geospatial 
community, but does the Open Source Geospatial community need the OSGeo 
Foundation? I don’t see that it does.

Darrell




> On Sep 26, 2015, at 05:29, Just van den Broecke  wrote:
> 
> Dear Milo,
> 
> That you agree Darrel's statements is your opinion and fine in any open 
> discussion.
> 
> I react here on your phrase: '"empty talkers" from my country run for charter 
> membership'.
> 
> We have 9 Charter Members from the Netherlands, including me. I know each of 
> them, and IMO they are far from "empty talkers". They all spend long 
> voluntary hours in an array of activities that support OSGeo's global and 
> OSGeo.nl local mission and FOSS in general. To name a few:
> Sebastiaan Couwenberg (2015) spends ample time in Debian packaging
> Barend Köbben (2012) helping/speaking at FOSS4G, org academic track
> We all know what Jeroen and Bart have accomplished. I could go on. Not all 
> charter members need to make software, some make things happen like 
> organizing local OSGeo.nl events and acting in the LOC for the upcoming 
> FOSS4G in Bonn.
> 
> So I hope your "empty talkers" phrase came out of a sudden impulse, that we 
> all have from time to time. I had to react to clarify some things. Best,
> 
> Just van den Broecke
> Secretary OSGeo.nl Foundation
> 
> 
> On 26-09-15 00:12, Milo van der Linden wrote:
>> Being a "don't talk, act" member since 2008, entrepreneur and former
>> chairman of a couple of local initiatives, I strongly agree.
>> 
>> Seeing all the "empty talkers" from my country run for charter
>> membership and still not having geoserver, which is the most mature open
>> geospatial product I can think of pas incubation made me completely lose
>> interest in OSGeo.
>> 
>> I am disappointed, a little frustrated and plotting a business course
>> that values open source and open knowledge. OSGeo or any in-crowd will
>> have no part in my future.
>> 
>> Thank you for your honest and to the point analyses.
>> 
>> Milo
>> 

___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

[OSGeo-Discuss] OSGeo is becoming irrelevant. Here's why. Let's fix it.

[Darrell Fuhriman]

The recent discussion on the board list 
 that came 
out of the question of the 2014 videos has got me thinking about a few things 
again, and I want to try to get them out there.

Grab a mug of your favorite liquid and hunker down, because I put some time and 
effort into this, and your own well considered reply is appreciated.

Keep in mind that all of these comments are coming from my personal 
perspective, which, like everyone’s, is an incomplete picture of the whole. 
Much of what I’m going to say has been rolling around my head for a while, so 
I’m just going to put it out there.

I will start with a provocative thesis:

OSGeo lacks visionary unified leadership and without it will become irrelevant.

Of course, making such a claim requires support. So let me break down the 
statement. 

“Visionary leadership” is really two things, “vision” and “leadership.” I will 
address each in turn.

OSGeo lacks vision

I looked at the list of “Goals” for OSGeo 
. I wonder: when was the 
last time these goals were evaluated for both success and relevancy?

Here is my own opinion of success of some of  these goals. (In the interest of 
brevity, I haven’t tried to tackle everything. That’s left as an exercise to 
the reader.)

Example 1

To provide resources for foundation projects - eg. infrastructure, funding, 
legal.

Allow me to break each of those examples down.
Infrastructure

It’s true that OSGeo provides some infrastructure, such as Trac instance, 
Mailman, SVN repos. If the budget is to be believed, we pay some $3,500/yr to 
OSUOSL for said infrastructure. I wonder if such a service is necessary, 
however. Issue tracking and source control are much better provided by Github, 
which is free for organization such as ours.
I say this because a) that’s money that could be better spent elsewhere and b) 
supporting these services burns precious volunteer time (more on that below).
There are clear cost savings available, which are not taken advantage of. For 
example, OSGeo could be hosting FOSS4G infrastructure: conference websites and 
registration, a central location for conference videos (regardless of 
platform/provider). This neglect is especially galling given that FOSS4G is 
OSGeo’s sole source of income.

Funding

OSGeo does not fund projects. It has provided some funds to pay for Code 
Sprints — $15k in 2014 according to the budget 
.

Legal

I see nothing that has been done on this front recently. Please feel free to 
correct me.

Conclusion

OSGeo, where it actually does what it claims, has not adapted in ways that 
could save money.

 My grade: D

Example 2

To promote freely available geodata - free software is useless without data.

The geodata working group is dead. As near as I can tell by perusing the 
mailing list archives, and the wiki, there has been no meaningful activity in 
the past two years (maybe more).

My grade: F

Example 3

To promote the use of open source software in the geospatial industry (not just 
foundation software) - eg. PR, training, outreach.

The Board of Directors 
 page 
says:
Packaging and Marketing

OSGeo’s marketing effort has primarily been focused around the packaging and 
documentation efforts of OSGeo-Live, and to a lesser extend[sic], osgeo4w. […] 
It has been entirely driven by volunteer labour, with 140 OSGeo-Live 
volunteers, and printing costs have been covered by local events or sponsors. 
In the last couple of years, OSGeo has covered local chapter expenses required 
to purchase non-consumable items for conference booths (such as a retractable 
banner). In moving forward, OSGeo hope to extend marketing reach by providing 
co-contributions toward printing costs of consumable items at conferences, such 
as toward OSGeo-Live DVDs.

Local Chapters

Much of OSGeo’s marketing initiates are applied at the local level. In many 
cases, this is best supported through as little as an email list and wiki page. 
OSGeo also supports local chapters by offering to pay for an Exhibition starter 
pack for local chapters. Local chapters are also usually the coordinators of 
conferences and related events, as mentioned above.

Exhibition starter packs almost never happen; OSGeo-Live explicitly gets no 
support; and OSGeo struggles to staff a booth at its own conference to say 
nothing of any other conferences.

Note: Local chapters certainly do do marketing and outreach, but these efforts 
are essentially unsupported by the OSGeo Foundation. In fact, this goal and the 
Board of Directors webpage seem to be explicitly contradictory. 

My grade: F.

Commentary

I could go on with my own personal evaluations, but I’m not sure that’s 
necessary. The only place I see that OSGeo has unquestionably succeeded in the 
past few years is the final 

[OSGeo-Discuss] Question(s) for board candidates

[Darrell Fuhriman]

I have a set of inter-related questions for board candidates.

1) What do you see as OSGeo’s purpose today?
1a) What is OSGeo doing today that it shouldn’t be doing?

2) What do you see as OSGeo’s purpose in five years?
2a) What should OSGeo be doing in five years that it *isn’t* doing today?

3) How do we get from (1) to (2)?
3a) How can you help that?

Darrell


___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

Re: [Talk-us] NAIP US Aerial Imagery

[Darrell Fuhriman]

I’ve used the NAIP imagery to confirm the existence/absence of something, since 
it’s often more recent than the BING imagery.

I had used the WMS servers in JOSM, but having specific access to just that 
dataset would be handy.

Darrell


 On Aug 12, 2015, at 14:01, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Last I checked the latest and greatest NAIP is included in the USGS's large 
 scale imagery layer, which is tiled and cached on the OSM US tile server.
 
 I don't have a layer specific to the latest NAIP-only imagery, though. Is 
 that something you're interested in?
 
 On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 11:56 AM, Mike N nice...@att.net 
 mailto:nice...@att.net wrote:
 Does anyone know about current NAIP aerial imagery?  SC 2015 imagery has been 
 acquired and can be viewed, but the page no longer lists WMS as a format -
 
 http://gis.apfo.usda.gov/arcgis/rest/services/NAIP/South_Carolina_2015_1m/ImageServer
  
 http://gis.apfo.usda.gov/arcgis/rest/services/NAIP/South_Carolina_2015_1m/ImageServer
 
   SC 2013 WMS imagery has already been removed.   Does this mean that NAIP 
 will be removing WMS from future services and will only support JSON and 
 SOAP?   (which I cannot get JOSM to accept).
 
 
 ___
 Talk-us mailing list
 Talk-us@openstreetmap.org mailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us 
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
 
 ___
 Talk-us mailing list
 Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [OSGeo-Conf] Code of Conduct in Real Case

[Darrell Fuhriman]

 On Jun 24, 2015, at 20:35, Darrell Fuhriman darr...@garnix.org wrote:
 
 This is false. Simply false. If people are abused out of a line of work until 
 they quit, that’s not “women choosing other jobs” anymore than me walking 
 into your house, punching you in the face until you leave then claiming “He 
 abandoned it” means it’s not my fault.

BTW, I want to draw attention to the fact that this isn’t news. We’ve known 
this for a long time (the research below is from 2008), The problem is staring 
us the face, and a tremendous number of people in our community remain in 
denial about it. 

Please read:

https://hbr.org/2008/06/stopping-the-exodus-of-women-in-science 
https://hbr.org/2008/06/stopping-the-exodus-of-women-in-science
http://documents.library.nsf.gov/edocs/HD6060-.A84-2008-PDF-Athena-factor-Reversing-the-brain-drain-in-science,-engineering,-and-technology.pdf
 
http://documents.library.nsf.gov/edocs/HD6060-.A84-2008-PDF-Athena-factor-Reversing-the-brain-drain-in-science,-engineering,-and-technology.pdf

Key quotes:

“Our research findings show that on the lower rungs of corporate career 
ladders, fully 41% of highly qualified scientists, engineers, and technologists 
are women. But the dropout rates are huge: Over time 52% of these talented 
women quit their jobs.
[…]
So why do women leave science, engineering, and technology careers The answer 
comes in five parts. First and foremost, the hostility of the workplace culture 
drives them out. If machismo is on the run in most U.S. corporate settings, 
then this is its Alamo—a last holdout of redoubled intensity.”

I realize this study is US focused, but I’ve seen nothing to indicate that the 
US is any way an outlier in these matters.

Darrell


___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [OSGeo-Conf] Code of Conduct in Real Case

[Darrell Fuhriman]

 On Jun 24, 2015, at 23:26, clem...@igonet.fr wrote:
 
 Why don't the women take the place and the power by themselves?

Why don’t the poor take from the rich? Why don’t the weak take from the strong? 
Why don’t the slaves take over the master’s house?

The question should answer itself.

Darrell





___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [OSGeo-Conf] Code of Conduct in Real Case

[Darrell Fuhriman]

I’m not sure who the “we” you are referring to here is, but it certainly does 
not include me.

I am absolutely, 100%, interested in having more women become engaged in FOSS4G.

Please don’t make such sweeping generalizations.

We are a broad community, a global community, but we are not truly reflective 
of the whole world. We are largely white men from wealthy countries.

I *want* people engaged and passionate about FOSS4G. And that means making sure 
have a community where *everyone* feels welcome.  If our FOSS4G community does 
not reflect the entire world, then we are failing to engage all people, or 
worse, chasing some of them away.

A CoC is not a sign that we are dying, a CoC is a sign that we acknowledge that 
we are insufficiently inclusive, and that we as a community will not stand for 
that. It’s a sign that says “We do not want behaviors that drive people away, 
behaviors that make our community *smaller*. We are a welcoming community and 
we want *you* to be part of it.”Is a CoC sufficient to create that community? 
Absolutely not, but it’s a step forwards. A flag in the ground — a flag that 
says, “We welcome you!”

If we’re afraid of that, then we truly are a dying community, and one that 
deserves to meet its quiet, irrelevant end.

Darrell


 We are not interested in more women to become engaged in FOSS4G. We are 
 interested in people engaged and passionate about FOSS4G. We don't care about 
 the sex, the colour, the religious or the operating system. Why are we 
 interested specifically in more women?
 
 There is a large and growing business behind FOSS4G, which is an huge 
 accomplishment of FOSS4G, that we should care and maintain. It is ok to have 
 some grey people with a strange piece of cloth knotted at the throat 
 attending FOSS4G and moving around.

___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [OSGeo-Conf] Code of Conduct in Real Case

[Darrell Fuhriman]

 I don’t think the reason why OSGeo has not so many women are caused by 
 lacking of CoC in OSGeo. According to the statistics National Centre for 
 Education Statistics[0], women have outnumbered men in American colleges for 
 last 35 years.

Great. Why are so few of them in positions of power? Why aren’t  a majority of 
our CEOs women? Why aren’t a majority of our biologists women? Why aren’t a 
majority of our legislators women? We can come up with all sorts of excuses to 
dance around the problem, because we’d rather go through mental contortions 
than admit the obvious: sexism in ubiquitous . (For a related discussion, I 
recommend the book “Racism without Racists” which thoroughly examines how a lot 
of people who don’t think of themselves as racist actually take part in 
behaviors and support structures that are in fact, racist.)

 However women just selected another jobs rather than programming or 
 geospatial. It’s not our fault. I couldn’t recall any decisive moment that 
 lacking of CoC in OSGeo excluded participation of female except recent 
 comments from Kate. 

This is false. Simply false. If people are abused out of a line of work until 
they quit, that’s not “women choosing other jobs” anymore than me walking into 
your house, punching you in the face until you leave then claiming “He 
abandoned it” means it’s not my fault.

It *is* our fault. It’s systemic and it’s pernicious.

And honestly, it doesn’t take much looking to find stories of women who have 
left technical fields because they’re tired of the abuse. But the reality is 
most of them quietly leave, so when people say, “I can’t recall a time that 
happened…” it’s not because it doesn’t happen, it’s because those people aren’t 
paying attention.

 It’s very similar in Korea as well. More than 45% of college students are 
 female. However they *DO* select another jobs instead of selecting 
 programming or geospatial. That’s why only around 10% are female in Korean 
 Chapter. It’s not because lacking of CoC. 

Are you sure? I mean this seriously. Do you have evidence for that, or are you 
just assuming? I’m not fetishizing the CoC itself, obviously having a CoC 
doesn’t magically make an open community, but it’s a symbol that the community 
does take inclusivity seriously.

 If we want to be a broad community, a global community, also truly 
 reflective of the whole world, we’d better discuss how to effectively engage 
 other members from 3rd countries or developing countries. Do you know people 
 in Asia outnumber the other part of the world? Frankly to say I haven’t seen 
 any much effort from OSGeo to try to engage members from developing 
 countries. Ah.. we have travel grants once a year.  
 

You will not get an argument for me. I’ve been arguing for a long time that 
there needs to be concerted and honest outreach to the rest of the world.  So 
far the OSGeo model has been “build it and they they will come” (to use a 
Hollywood reference). This is, of course, hogwash. I’ve had a number of 
conversations about how OSGeo should be sponsoring workshops around world. 
Spending the money produced by FOSS4G to put on “FOSS4G East Africa” even if it 
loses money. I want there to be FOSS4G Ouagadougou, FOSS4G Kuala Lampur, FOSS4G 
Vietnam, FOSS4G Uruguay.

That’s the world I want.

 You said, If our FOSS4G community does not reflect the entire world, then we 
 are failing to engage all people, or worse, chasing some of them away.” 
 Great! And then what is the real relation between your phrase and CoC. Do you 
 really believe that imposing CoC automatically make OSGeo more welcomed 
 organisation to 3rd countries or developing countries members? 

No, of course not. CoC’s aren’t magic, but they’re a statement of belief in 
higher ideal.


 I feel that CoC is for white women in advanced countries. I know I might be 
 wrong. However whenever we talk about CoC, it’s all about sexy image or 
 something like that. It’s not about how to engage 2/3 of world population. 
 

Well, with the exception of the “white” part, I actually mostly agree with this 
(ignoring the status of minorities, which are common in the advanced world). 
However, I would also point out that women, globally, are 51% of the 
population. Why *not* make them feel safer?

But if the argument is essentially, “we’re not making better for everyone, then 
what’s the point of doing it for some” then I reject that. Because again, this 
is merely a step, and every journey requires many steps.

So my question to you is this: if a CoC is insufficient for building a globally 
diverse community (which I agree it is), in what way is it actively harmful to 
that cause? Would *not* having a CoC further the goals of creating a better 
community? If so, how?

Darrell


___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

Re: [Talk-us] a plea to armchair mappers

[Darrell Fuhriman]

Another useful tool might be to have a repository of local imagery servers that 
can automatically become available when in an appropriate area.

For instance, I use the 2014 NAIP imagery via a WMS server in JOSM. It’s only 
1m resolution, but it’s great for double checking that nothing has changed.

At smaller zoom levels, that might actually be a preferable default to always 
using bing, and having the imagery change, combined with imagery dates, draws 
attention to the fact that things might not always be current.

d.





 On Jun 11, 2015, at 07:54, Bryan Housel br...@7thposition.com wrote:
 
 There is an open item in iD to display the date of the aerial imagery 
 alongside the attribution message.  We actually don’t get this from most tile 
 providers, but we can get it from Bing in the response header.
 
 Would definitely welcome a pull request if someone wants to take a shot at 
 implementing this.
 https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/2492 
 https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/2492
 
 Thanks, Bryan
 
 
 
 On Jun 11, 2015, at 10:05 AM, Kam, Kristen krist...@telenav.com 
 mailto:krist...@telenav.com wrote:
 
 We need to make it more easier to load up-to-date imagery to  our OSM 
 editing applications. And I think something easy as publicizing the date of 
 the imagery collection would get folks to do a double take before using 
 older imagery.
 
 Kristen
 
 Sent from OWA on Android
 
 From: Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net mailto:rwe...@averillpark.net
 Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 6:42:29 AM
 To: Talk Openstreetmap; Help for newbie mappers
 Subject: [Talk-us] a plea to armchair mappers
 
 please, please when doing the armchair mapping thing, be aware
 that aerial imagery may be several years out of date.
 
 yesterday i discovered that a highway reconfiguration i'd mapped
 in Rensselaer, NY had been realigned with the out-of-date bing
 aerial imagery. i was able to locate my GPX tracks and put it back,
 but i still had to revisit the site to re-verify some connecting roads.
 
 i had even put a README tag on the roads warning that the
 imagery was out of date, but the armchair mapper didn't bother
 to, you know, read the README.
 
 i don't object to careful armchair mapping, i do it myself, but
 you need to keep in mind that the imagery available may a number
 of years old. i can name a number of highways in the Capital District
 of NY where the imagery is old and the highways have been realigned
 and/or reconfigured.  this will be true in many places. if you see a
 mismatch, it would be a good idea to look at the history and try to
 contact the the mapper responsible for the mismatch first.
 
 thanks,
   richard
 
 --
 rwe...@averillpark.net mailto:rwe...@averillpark.net
 Averill Park Networking - GIS  IT Consulting
 OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux
 Java - Web Applications - Search
 
 
 
 ___
 Talk-us mailing list
 Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
 
 ___
 Talk-us mailing list
 Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] a plea to armchair mappers

[Darrell Fuhriman]

Shouldn’t be too hard to add this: https://github.com/rjhale1971/NAIP_WMS 
https://github.com/rjhale1971/NAIP_WMS

Unfortunately, the WMS server seems to be misbehaving right now. I sent a note 
to what I hope are the right people about that.

d.



 On Jun 11, 2015, at 08:43, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Such a thing exists and is here: 
 https://github.com/osmlab/editor-imagery-index 
 https://github.com/osmlab/editor-imagery-index
 
 It is used by iD and Potlatch, with JOSM output available but not installed 
 by default.
 I'm happy to help anyone add their imagery.
 
 On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 11:36 AM, Darrell Fuhriman darr...@garnix.org 
 mailto:darr...@garnix.org wrote:
 Another useful tool might be to have a repository of local imagery servers 
 that can automatically become available when in an appropriate area.
 
 For instance, I use the 2014 NAIP imagery via a WMS server in JOSM. It’s only 
 1m resolution, but it’s great for double checking that nothing has changed.
 
 At smaller zoom levels, that might actually be a preferable default to always 
 using bing, and having the imagery change, combined with imagery dates, draws 
 attention to the fact that things might not always be current.
 
 d.
 
 
 
 
 
 On Jun 11, 2015, at 07:54, Bryan Housel br...@7thposition.com 
 mailto:br...@7thposition.com wrote:
 
 There is an open item in iD to display the date of the aerial imagery 
 alongside the attribution message.  We actually don’t get this from most 
 tile providers, but we can get it from Bing in the response header.
 
 Would definitely welcome a pull request if someone wants to take a shot at 
 implementing this.
 https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/2492 
 https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/2492
 
 Thanks, Bryan
 
 
 
 On Jun 11, 2015, at 10:05 AM, Kam, Kristen krist...@telenav.com 
 mailto:krist...@telenav.com wrote:
 
 We need to make it more easier to load up-to-date imagery to  our OSM 
 editing applications. And I think something easy as publicizing the date of 
 the imagery collection would get folks to do a double take before using 
 older imagery.
 
 Kristen
 
 Sent from OWA on Android
 
 From: Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net mailto:rwe...@averillpark.net
 Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 6:42:29 AM
 To: Talk Openstreetmap; Help for newbie mappers
 Subject: [Talk-us] a plea to armchair mappers
 
 please, please when doing the armchair mapping thing, be aware
 that aerial imagery may be several years out of date.
 
 yesterday i discovered that a highway reconfiguration i'd mapped
 in Rensselaer, NY had been realigned with the out-of-date bing
 aerial imagery. i was able to locate my GPX tracks and put it back,
 but i still had to revisit the site to re-verify some connecting roads.
 
 i had even put a README tag on the roads warning that the
 imagery was out of date, but the armchair mapper didn't bother
 to, you know, read the README.
 
 i don't object to careful armchair mapping, i do it myself, but
 you need to keep in mind that the imagery available may a number
 of years old. i can name a number of highways in the Capital District
 of NY where the imagery is old and the highways have been realigned
 and/or reconfigured.  this will be true in many places. if you see a
 mismatch, it would be a good idea to look at the history and try to
 contact the the mapper responsible for the mismatch first.
 
 thanks,
   richard
 
 --
 rwe...@averillpark.net mailto:rwe...@averillpark.net
 Averill Park Networking - GIS  IT Consulting
 OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux
 Java - Web Applications - Search
 
 
 
 ___
 Talk-us mailing list
 Talk-us@openstreetmap.org mailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us 
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
 
 ___
 Talk-us mailing list
 Talk-us@openstreetmap.org mailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us 
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
 
 
 ___
 Talk-us mailing list
 Talk-us@openstreetmap.org mailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us 
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
 
 

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] a plea to armchair mappers

[Darrell Fuhriman]

Yes, it has. I was using it not all that long ago.

I’m sure it’s just a temporary outage.

d.


 On Jun 11, 2015, at 10:59, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net wrote:
 
 On 6/11/15 1:27 PM, Darrell Fuhriman wrote:
 Shouldn’t be too hard to add this: https://github.com/rjhale1971/NAIP_WMS 
 https://github.com/rjhale1971/NAIP_WMS
 
 Unfortunately, the WMS server seems to be misbehaving right now. I sent a 
 note to what I hope are the right people about that.
 
 i had found Randy's page back when Darrell brought it up, and
 verified that 2013 NYS imagery was available from NAIP that
 clearly showed the road reconfiguration that's missing from Bing.
 so the NAIP stuff has been seen working recently.
 
 richard
 -- 
 rwe...@averillpark.net mailto:rwe...@averillpark.net
  Averill Park Networking - GIS  IT Consulting
  OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux
  Java - Web Applications - Search
 ___
 Talk-us mailing list
 Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] tools for processing old TIGER/Line files?

[Darrell Fuhriman]

OGR should be able to. http://www.gdal.org/drv_tiger.html

Keep in mind the 1992 files in particular are very poor quality (which, BTW, 
shouldn’t be taken as the census doing a poor job, but rather that 
high-accuracy was not a design criteria for that era. The point was to be good 
enough for census takers, not for navigation or high accuracy maps).

d.

 On Jun 10, 2015, at 17:39, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net wrote:
 
 does anyone know of any tools that can process these old
 files (1992, 2006) into a more modern format?
 
 i have a couple of things i'd like to inspect the old TIGER
 files for.
 
 thanks,
   richard
 
 -- 
 rwe...@averillpark.net
 Averill Park Networking - GIS  IT Consulting
 OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux
 Java - Web Applications - Search
 
 
 ___
 Talk-us mailing list
 Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us


___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] A note about bags and security at SOTM-US

[Darrell Fuhriman]

 
 maximum size for all bags as:
 14 (35cm) wide x 13 (33cm) high x 4 (10cm) deep
 
 That is *TINY*! I mean even most Hello Kitty backpacks for children
 are 16 tall.


This is slightly larger than my messenger bag (or a briefcase), which I don't 
consider to be tiny. I can comfortably fit a laptop, a book, a notepad, plus 
various sundries with room to spare.

Maybe I'm crazy, but that seems wholly adequate for a day at a conference.

d. 
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Facts about the world

[Darrell Fuhriman]

TIGER is much older than reasonably portable GPS units. It was originally 
developed for the 1990 Census, which means work began much earlier than that. 
In 1990, handheld GPS units were not even available to the military.

Much of the original data was traced from paper maps (which is also true of a 
great deal of GIS data in use today).

They have an ongoing project to update the data in cooperation with local 
governments, but those entities are often resource constrained themselves. It 
would be great if we could share OSM data with them all, but of course we can't.

d. 



 On Apr 4, 2015, at 13:30, Mike N nice...@att.net wrote:
 
 On 4/4/2015 1:04 PM, Minh Nguyen wrote:
 I wonder if it was even about the resolution in some counties. It's as
 if the data was traced off a cartogram, or maybe reconstructed from a
 table of intersections.
 
 Or recorded with a GPS back in the days when the signal was scrambled, that 
 is with the deliberate random error measured by non-military grade GPS 
 receivers.
 
 
 ___
 Talk-us mailing list
 Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Facts about the world

[Darrell Fuhriman]

 So I think the issue of long term data maintenance is a separate issue from 
 that of imports though imported data may spotlight the issue more.

Agreed. Data maintenance is a much duller task than adding new data, and that’s 
going to be an issue anywhere and has nothing to do with the origin of the 
data. Many of the common imports (buildings and addresses) are quite slow to 
change anyway, so ongoing maintenance becomes a different kind of beast.

Anyway, there are reason why there are companies whose business is keeping 
business listings up to date — because it’s hard, tedious work.

On that note, I actually sent this as a feature suggestion to the Pushpin 
developers a while back, but I think it’s a concept that could be extended to 
any OSM data, especially now that most of us are carrying around smartphones. 
The idea is make data currency checking as painless as possible. I wrote it 
with POI data in mind, but it could be extended to other data types as well, 
with varying scheduling based on how often the data is likely to change (i.e. 
streets and buildings don’t change that often, businesses do).

d.

===
I was thinking that it would be helpful  to add some geofencing to the Pushpin 
app, so that if you come near a POI you can be asked to check if it's current. 
It could work something like:

Establish geofence for each POIs that has not been updated/verified in some 
interval (let's say 6 months + some random interval, so as to avoid someone 
getting pinged for every POI on the street if they happen to walk down the 
street six months after someone else did).

When user comes near such a geofence, they get a notification and a few options 
to verify. 

For example, let's say Joe's Coffee hasn't been verified for 9 months. When I 
walk past it, I get a notification that says:

Hey, you're right near Joe's Coffee, at 123 Main Street. Would you like to 
verify its information is current?

And it presents me the options:

• Not right now
  - I no longer get notified for Joe's Coffee for some period of time (say, a 
week, or until it's verified by someone else)

• Yes, it's current
 - POI is flagged as current in OSM, app says Thanks! and the geofence is 
removed

• Yes, it's current, but let me change/add to the info
- Takes me to the update screen, I make changes, POI is flagged as verified in 
OSM, app says Thanks! and the geofence is removed

• No, it's out of date
- User is prompted:
   - Let me update it (update as above)
   - It's gone, just delete it
   - It's gone, but let me replace it with what is here now

I think you guys get the idea.
===





___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Facts about the world

[Darrell Fuhriman]

My god, this is arrogant.

Crap like this is the #1 reason I’m not an OSMF member.

If this is what counts as the “OSM community” – I want no part of it.

d.

On Apr 3, 2015, at 17:53, Paul Norman penor...@mac.com wrote:

 On 4/3/2015 11:19 AM, Martijn van Exel wrote:
 Perhaps we, as the U.S. chapter, play a role in creating or sustaining these 
 false assumptions?
 
 Yes. To substantiate this, I looked at communications from the US chapter
 
 I looked through the current board term and the previous board term.
 
 In the current board term I counted 15 blog posts. The breakdown of these is
]
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Imports] Importing names of homeowners : Nepal Red Cross

[Darrell Fuhriman]

Gotta agree. Privacy issues aside, I don’t think it’s appropriate to OSM.

I don’t think a full revert is necessary if we can remove the offending tags.

d.


On Feb 18, 2015, at 14:19, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net wrote:

 On 2/18/15 4:05 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote:
 Hi,
 
 On 02/18/2015 08:07 PM, Bryce Nesbitt wrote:
 I noticed an import today that brings up some issues and a general
 principle.
 Unsure if it is an import at all. Surely the addition of personal data
 would violate data protection rules in European countries. I have added
 a note to the changeset asking what this is about. If this cannot be
 cleared up then I'm leaning towards a revert on data protection grounds.
 
 i don't think this kind of data belongs in OSM at all.
 
 richard
 
 -- 
 rwe...@averillpark.net
 Averill Park Networking - GIS  IT Consulting
 OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux
 Java - Web Applications - Search
 
 
 ___
 Imports mailing list
 Imports@openstreetmap.org
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports


___
Imports mailing list
Imports@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports

Re: [Talk-us] Tagging addresses on area's

[Darrell Fuhriman]

It seems to be addr:unit, though it’s not widely used. It’s what I’ve been 
using, though.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:addr:unit

d.


On Feb 3, 2015, at 12:28, Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote:

 What's the correct tag for unit number, anyway?  This is driving me insane 
 since it's making it impossible to complete mapping the caravan site I live 
 in to a level of completeness that you can navigate by without trying to find 
 the unit numbers (which, stupidly, are all on the utility pedestals at the 
 back of the space, instead of by the roadside where they're not blocked by 
 slideouts routinely)
 

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Routing on Ferries

[Darrell Fuhriman]

GTFS works fine for ferries already. Many do publish the data. 

d. 

 On Jan 1, 2015, at 10:55, Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us wrote:
 
 
 I agree. However, it would be nice to have it show the route. Somehow we can 
 route via bus using GTFS. I wonder if ferry routes have a similar spec?
 
 

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Rail westerly

[Darrell Fuhriman]

Yes, WGS84 because that’s what’s used by GPS (which was, after all, the 
original data source for OSM). 

Of course, then there’s the question of *which* WGS84 definition we’re talking 
about. You actually can’t assumed that current definitions of WGS84 and NAD83 
are 1m difference.  You can dip your toe into the complexity here: 
http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/CORS/Articles/WGS84NAD83.pdf

Also note, that the satellite photography used for a great deal of OSM mapping 
has much less than 1m accuracy, and as you note, unless you’re using expensive 
GPS, you’re not likely to get 1m accuracy anyway.

Relatedly, I’m curious if anyone has used one of these guys: 
http://gps.dualav.com/explore-by-lifestyle/outdoors/

d.

On Dec 31, 2014, at 13:56, Dave Mansfield mansfie...@chartermi.net wrote:

 
 That brings up a good question. What datum is used by OSM? I would assume 
 it's WGS 84. NAD 83 is within about a meter of WGS 84. That’s closer than the 
 GPS units most of us have so would not cause much of an error if any. NAD 27 
 on the other hand could be off by as much as 180 meters.
 
 Dave
 
 -Original Message-
 From: stevea [mailto:stevea...@softworkers.com] 
 Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2014 2:24 PM
 To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org
 Cc: imports...@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Rail westerly
 
 I examine these in JOSM right now.  First they need to be unzipped, and it 
 looks like the (provided on that web page) PRJ file to change from WGS 84 
 (default) to either NAD 27 or 83 projection is required. 
 I haven't done that to these data in the instant case, but I've fiddled these 
 before and I think it is doable.
 
 SteveA
 California
 
 ___
 Talk-us mailing list
 Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
 
 
 ___
 Talk-us mailing list
 Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us


___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] NAD 27 data to OSM's native WGS 84 data

[Darrell Fuhriman]

 
 Any magic incantation that will just do this (for shapefile data) is 
 appreciated.  I don't know if copy-pasting the above string into a .prj in 
 the shapefile folder will direct JOSM (via Shapefile plug-in) to adjust the 
 data to WGS 84, or if something different is required.  It is even possible 
 that clicking on JOSM's alert button of Yes is all that is required, but 
 I'm not sure.  Thank you in advance.
 

Well, just clicking “Yes” will definitely not work, since JOSM won’t know what 
to convert from.

I don’t know if JOSM doesn’t reprojection. But if you want to just do it before 
loading the data into JOSM and you have OGR/GDAL installed:

ogr2ogr -s_srs EPSG:4267 -t_srs EPSG:4326  output.shp input.shp


d.

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Imports] Portland, OR building and address import

[Darrell Fuhriman]

  What are people who are hand-editing addresses doing?  What's the
  best practice in manual mapping?  (You should follow suit.)

Well, it seems that addr:unit is is the preferred tag. In my limited 
experience, it seems to be more popular with businesses than with residential 
buildings. That makes perfect sense, and is a good thing to have for POIs, 
business listings, etc.. It’s arguably less valuable for many residential 
purposes, though the one you describe is a good example of where it is valuable.

In our Phase 1, we are intentionally not handling the multiple-building, 
multiple-address per parcel case. Where we do have unit addresses, they’re most 
likely to be in residential towers, etc.

The phase 2 (3?), multiple address, multiple building case will be much of more 
a manual process “identify and manually assign” than a semi-automated one.

 What does your data look like in particular cases, especially ones that
 might match my last question?


There is no one answer to that, a lot of it seems to depend on the government 
agent providing the data to Metro. In some cases address points with units seem 
to correspond quite closely to physical location (typical in the city of 
Portland). In others, there might just be 100+ address points at the centroid 
of the parcel, regardless of the number of units or buildings (in Clackamas 
county). 

That’s partially why we’re intending to make that process much more manual. 
(I’m looking forward to the weekend bike ride/address mapping/brew pub visiting 
parties.)


Darrell


___
Imports mailing list
Imports@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports

[Imports] Portland, OR building and address import

[Darrell Fuhriman]

PDX-OSGEO is pleased to announce our intent to import the Portland, Oregon area 
building footprints and addresses into OpenStreetMap.

Following the Import Guidelines, we believe our next step is to contact this 
list. We have previously forward our plan to the imports-us list, and discussed 
it in a BoF at the SoTM.us in Washington, DC.

We’re looking forward to beginning the import soon, pending feedback.

I’ll be speaking at the RLIS Subscriber meeting on December 10th, and would 
love to be able to give everyone a firm timeline so we can recruit volunteers 
for our training sessions (probably beginning after the new year).

The detailed proposal is here: 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Portland,_OR_Bldg_import, and you can find 
the code to prepare the data for import here: 
https://github.com/pdxosgeo/pdxbldgimport .

You can read prior discussion on the imports-us list here: 
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/imports-us/2014-November/thread.html

The major component left to do is to write contributor instructions.

Brief Summary

Data are provided by Metro, the Portland regional planning authority. These 
Metro (RLIS) datasets are made available under ODbL, see:

http://www.oregonmetro.gov/sites/default/files/Open_Database_and_Content_Licenses.pdf.

Moreover, one of the reasons why Metro staff chose this license was to help 
make it compatible with OSM imports and to continue building a well-established 
relationship with OpenStreetMap.

Most buildings footprints are LIDAR derived, and of extremely high quality.

The datasets:

- Building Footprints:

http://rlisdiscovery.oregonmetro.gov/?action=viewDetaillayerID=2406

- Address points:

http://rlisdiscovery.oregonmetro.gov/?action=viewDetaillayerID=656

While PDX-OSGEO is organizing the import, it is a joint effort of PDXOSGEO, 
MaptimePDX, City of Portland staff, Metro GIS staff, and other local OSM 
contributors.

Your feedback is welcome and encouraged!

Darrell___
Imports mailing list
Imports@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports

Re: [Imports] Portland, OR building and address import

[Darrell Fuhriman]

That’s covered in the documentation. :) In short, our initial plan is to not 
modify existing building footprints. There’s code in the repo for adding 
addresses to buildings that are missing them, but that is more of a phase 2 
item.

As of a couple weeks ago, OSM has 19,370 buildings in the metro area, about 
8000 have address tags on them. There are an additional 1300 address points.

Our first-pass import will add an additional ~570k buildings, ~510k of which 
have addresses. Not all buildings have them, such a detached garages, barns, 
etc. Some have more, so the total  number of addresses imported will actually 
be ~561k. We also have enough data to be able to easily add address tags to 
about 4000 extant buildings. I’m sure we could get the balance of untagged 
buildings without too much work.

One open question for me, which we I would appreciate guidance on, is whether 
or not to import address points for each unit number in a building, where we 
have them. Right now, we are not planning to, but it would be easy to change 
things to add them.

Darrell


On Dec 3, 2014, at 14:15, Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote:

 I'm not 100% sure how much address data there is, but I'm aware that there's 
 a substantial number of building footprints in place already.  Curious how 
 this is going to be conflated with existing data (though, given the 
 relatively high quality of previous RLIS imports, this is largely a secondary 
 concern).


___
Imports mailing list
Imports@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports

Re: [Imports-us] Portland Metro Area Building Import

[Darrell Fuhriman]

To be fair, the question was intended to be rhetorical. I’m certainly in no 
position to be making agreements on behalf of Metro. My point is that it’s 
absurd to expect of others that they not conform to the same license you demand 
they to conform to. If Metro is willing to adopt the ODBL, explicitly to be 
able to do two-way sharing with OSM, then the license is working exactly as 
intended. (I say this as someone who generally thinks share-alike is 
counter-productive.)

That being said, I’ve been saying for years that there should exist a mechanism 
for having exactly these kinds of limited-scope exceptions as a middle-ground 
between the pro/anti-ODBL camps. I even brought it up during the licensing BOF 
at the last SotM.us, but no one seemed particularly interested in the idea 
then. Glad to hear somebody else in a better position is thinking along the 
same lines.

Anyway, this isn’t really the right forum this discussion and it’s quickly 
diverging far from the matter at hand, which based on Paul’s e-mail, I consider 
resolved.

d.


On Dec 2, 2014, at 11:00, Alex Barth a...@mapbox.com wrote:

 
 On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 2:12 AM, Darrell Fuhriman darr...@garnix.org wrote:
 would OSM return the favor and offer Metro permission to use OSM data in the 
 same fashion inside the Metro area?
 
 The outgoing LWG chairman Mike Collinson has stated at State of the Map EU in 
 Karlsruhe earlier this year that such an exception is in principle possible. 
 I think that'd be interesting to pursue.
 

___
Imports-us mailing list
Imports-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports-us

Re: [diversity-talk] Neurodiversity and CoC

[Darrell Fuhriman]

Thanks for your thoughtful words, Alan.

Yes, I and Alyssa are the moderators.

I’m afraid I’m still getting caught up. (Haven’t even had coffee yet!) I saw 
the first couple of e-mails in the thread last night, but no more until this 
morning, and I’m afraid I don’t know what “other thread” people are referring 
to.

Hopefully everyone can take a deep breath, and step away from the keyboard for 
a bit. If necessary, I can enforce that by fiat (at least for this list), but 
I’d rather not have to do that.

I agree that “something” needs to be done, but I’m not sure what the right 
“something” is. I hope you will all forgive me if I take a bit of time this 
morning to read the stream of emails carefully and think about it (and drink my 
coffee!).

I would welcome off-list comments.

Darrell

On Dec 2, 2014, at 03:55, Alan McConchie alan.mcconc...@gmail.com wrote:

 Thanks to Tom, Mele, and Kai (in the parallel thread) for your very reasoned 
 and calming words here. Normally I try to keep my mouth shut when things get 
 heated on the mailing lists, since yet another voice usually doesn't help 
 things. But on the other hand, if all of us who are repelled by the tone of 
 the mailing lists keep our mouths shut, then nothing will improve. 
 
 I will try not to weigh in too much on the content of the debate regarding 
 neurodiversity. I already know a quite a bit about the topic, but I am 
 educating myself further, especially WRT how people with traumatic brain 
 injuries (TBIs) are included (or not) under the umbrella of the 
 neurodivergent. To a lay person, it certainly sounds like people coping with 
 TBIs would be included in a term like neurodiverse or neurodivergent, but 
 as I read up on the topic, it appears that those terms have a clear and 
 specific meaning among the individuals who identify as such, and that this 
 specific meaning does not include TBIs. If I imagine things from the point of 
 view of someone who identifies as neurodivergent, I can understand why that 
 is the case, and I can see how misuse of that term could be offensive. But I 
 think Alyssa's comment was an honest mistake.
 
 It's not my job to tell someone else that they shouldn't be offended, and I 
 am wary of going too far into tone policing, but on the other hand the very 
 first point in our proposed CoC is be nice. I wish that Alyssa's 
 well-meaning but incorrect use of the term neurodiverse had been used as a 
 teachable moment to help us make this forum more welcoming, instead of being 
 met with an angry response from Serge that has now alienated many more people 
 than Alyssa's original email did (at least judging from public responses here 
 and on twitter). 
 
 I hope we can all agree that we want our community to be welcoming to people 
 with TBIs, as well as to the neurodivergent, and we need to figure out the 
 correct terminology to welcome both these groups without offending anyone. 
 Perhaps that's another issue for the CoC?
 
 However, I think the tone of the emails on this list still need to be dealt 
 with. If we can't create a welcoming space on this mailing list, then how can 
 we have any hope of success in the rest of OSM? However, I see a few 
 complications dealing with this particular incident:
 
 1. Is this a first offense, or worse? Here I'm speaking both about Alyssa's 
 offensive comment and Serge's excessive response. I'm not a part of the local 
 New York City OSM community, but I am aware that there have been long-running 
 disagreements between Alyssa and Serge, thus making it hard to determine what 
 constitutes a first offense here. In fact, the very first month of this list 
 included a couple of threads regarding some unspecified incident in the NYC 
 community [1]. I don't know enough details, but it seems we are beyond the 
 first offense for one or both parties.
 
 2. Another complication: Randal made a plea to the list administrators to 
 remove Serge from the list because of his email. It appears that Alyssa 
 herself is one of the list administrators, along with Darrell Fuhriman 
 (please correct me if I'm wrong). What do we do in the case where one of the 
 list administrators is one of the people involved in a flame war? Can Alyssa 
 recuse herself from any administrative tasks regarding this event, so we can 
 be sure that any decisions (such as formal warnings or ejection from the 
 list) are made as impartially as possible by Darrell only? I think it's 
 important we (as a list) handle this as transparently and impersonally as 
 possible.
 
 Alan
 
 [1] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/diversity-talk/2013-June/

___
diversity-talk mailing list
diversity-talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/diversity-talk

Re: [Imports-us] Portland Metro Area Building Import

[Darrell Fuhriman]

I'll write a longer email in the morning, but my question is this: would OSM 
return the favor and offer Metro permission to use OSM data in the same fashion 
inside the Metro area?

Or is what's good for the goose not good for the gander?

d. 


 On Dec 1, 2014, at 22:45, Alex Barth a...@mapbox.com wrote:
 
 Public domain or if that's a no go for some reason, a specific permission in 
 an email to use the data in osm under the contributor terms. I could help 
 draft the latter.
 
 On Tuesday, December 2, 2014, Melelani Sax-Barnett saxb...@gmail.com wrote:
 So, Metro just went through a lot of work to change their license to the 
 only thing they thought was guaranteed to work with OSM, can we please get 
 some specific suggestions we can give them for what to use instead?
 
 Thanks,
 Mele
 On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 10:24 PM Alex Barth a...@mapbox.com wrote:
 
 On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 10:45 AM, Darrell Fuhriman darr...@garnix.org 
 wrote:
  1. The main thing that gives me some pause is the data being available
  under the ODbL.
 
 While the irony of this is not lost on me, I’m not sure that it’s our 
 responsibility to worry about theoretical changes. If, at a future date, 
 OSMF decides to make OSM incompatible with itself, that’s their problem. 
 We’re working in the world that actually exists, and the license is 
 compatible with OSM. Plus Metro is explicit about wanting their data in 
 OSM, and has a long history of improving OSM, and thus is likely to 
 accommodate future changes.
 
 
 Agreed w/ Serge's point. We shouldn't import any share alike data as this 
 makes OSM beholden to a licensing concept that doesn't work for data. IMO 
 this is not compatible with the contributor terms reserving the right to 
 change OSM's license to another open license that may or may not be share 
 alike. Especially if Metro is happy with data being used in OSM it'll be 
 great to get it in a non-share alike license. One head ache less when we'll 
 change the license ;)
 ___
 Imports-us mailing list
 Imports-us@openstreetmap.org
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports-us
___
Imports-us mailing list
Imports-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports-us

Re: [Talk-us] New I.D Feature

[Darrell Fuhriman]

That's a rather extreme definition of third party data and cumbersome for 
that matter. 

d. 

 On Nov 6, 2014, at 20:32, Shawn K. Quinn skqu...@rushpost.com wrote:
 
 On Fri, 2014-11-07 at 04:17 +, Elliott Plack wrote:
 Before the state showed up in iD, I had assumed someone could just
 easily derive the US state from the postal code.
 
 Usually, yes, but that introduces a dependence on third party data
 (USPS) that really should not be there. That, and it can be cumbersome.
 
 -- 
 Shawn K. Quinn skqu...@rushpost.com
 
 
 ___
 Talk-us mailing list
 Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [diversity-talk] OSM code of conduct: starting points

[Darrell Fuhriman]

A few quick comments (more thoughtful ones hopefully to follow).

 1. Whereas the Code of Conduct presumes that most behavior is done
 with full knowledge and intent, we cannot really assume that. We can't
 assume that if someone is behaving in a way that we dislike, that it
 must be purposeful.

Absolutely not. One of the points of the Code of Conduct is to draw attention 
to behaviors that people may not realize are distasteful to others.

 2. We can't assume that in all cases, someone is able to modify some
 behavior just because they're aware of it.

But then we need to ask if we actually want those people included. If one’s 
person behavior is chasing away multiple people, do we just accept it 
regardless of if they’re able to help themselves or not?

 A mailing list can allow someone to be moderated, whereas you can't
 moderate someone at an event.

Of course you can, you just do it differently. You can ask someone to leave for 
example, and in severe or repeat-offender cases, make it clear that they are no 
longer welcome at this or at future events.

 5. We must also allow for cultural differences.
 
 What is acceptable and normal in San Fransisco is going to be
 different from what's normal and acceptable in Jakarta. We need to
 allow for tweaks and changes to reflect local culture and mores.

Some, but “cultural differences” cannot be used to excuse certain behaviors.  
Many cultures are deeply sexist, should we just automatically accept sexism? I 
think not.

Darrell



___
diversity-talk mailing list
diversity-talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/diversity-talk

Re: [Talk-us] Statistics of board candidate edits

[Darrell Fuhriman]

 the  qualifications of someone on the board which sets direction for the
 local chapter, it is certainly useful to their experience as an OSM
 contributor in the US.
 
 Past a certain level of experience, the numbers lose value, but I wouldn't
 consider someone with only a few edits per year a good choice who would
 understand what's required to get the US map up to the level of those in
 countries with similar demographics.


I couldn’t disagree with this statement more. This is a simplistic, naïve, and 
exclusive definition of “understanding” that devalues other types of knowledge 
and contributions.

The OSM.us webpage says:

We support the OpenStreetMap project in the United States through education, 
fostering awareness, ensuring broad availability of data, continuous quality 
improvement, and an active community.”

and

We support OpenStreetMap by holding annual conferences, providing community 
resources, building partnerships, and by spreading the word.”

Nowhere in there does it say “making lots of edits”.

I can think of any number of skills that would be more valuable to the board in 
particular than skill in editing.

1) Fundraising
2) Community Outreach
3) Running Workshops
4) Conference Organizing
5) Grant Writing
6) Marketing
7) Volunteer Recruiting  Organizing

I could think of more.

In fact, I can’t think of a reason where number of edits made by a board member 
matters matters one iota.

Darrell___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Statistics of board candidate edits

[Darrell Fuhriman]

On Oct 3, 2014, at 08:28, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote:

  It is just one lens through which one might view the candidates.

Sure, I get that. I’m just saying it’s at best a meaningless lens, and a 
misleading one at worst.

 Darrell, you say that you can’t think of a reason where number of
 edits made by a board member matters matters one iota. I believe that
 Paul addresses that directly in his statement, When considering the
 qualifications of someone on the board which sets direction for the
 local chapter, it is certainly useful to their experience as an OSM
 contributor in the US.”

Yes, he does, but I’m saying Paul’s wrong. There are many, many ways that 
someone could be experienced with OSM and a valuable contributor while never 
having made a single edit. I don’t see number of edits to be useful in the 
least, especially since it’s measuring something irrelevant to what a board 
member is actually expected to do.  See, for instance, Martijn’s excellent 
outline: 
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us/2014-September/013612.html

I don’t see anything in that description that required editing experience. 
(Relatedly, I’d be curious to see some of the TODO lists, but the github repo 
seems to be private.)

Darrell


___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

[Talk-us] Questions for board nominees

[Darrell Fuhriman]

I’d be curious if the board nominees could answer a few questions.

1) What do you think the OSM.us organization does well?
2) Where do you think it “needs improvement?

3) What are two initiatives you’d like to the board to undertake during your 
tenure?
3a) How can you contribute to those?
3b) How would you measure their success?

Darrell


___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

[OSGeo-Discuss] Fixing FOSS4G (was: Hacking OSGeo)

[Darrell Fuhriman]

FWIW, what I want to ensure happens is that the issue of partnering with 
LocationTech does not get conflated with fixing how FOSS4G is managed.

What is clear is that things cannot continue to go on as they have, especially 
if OSGeo is serious about expanding FOSS4G, both in size and scope. I believe 
the organization it at a cross-roads with FOSS4G, and it’s a choice between 
expanding the conference with the help of a professional, or letting the 
conference stagnate (and hence OSGeo stagnate). It is simply as large as it can 
get under the current structure. And given that there’s already been one flame 
out, arguably already too big. 

Unless things change, and change soon, there will be another failure like 
Bejing. It’s that simple. It’s past time to grow up and start acting like the 
conference(s) are OSGeo’s lifeline — which they are.

Though one proposed path to adulthood for FOSS4G involves LocationTech, it’s 
not the only possible solution.

I see three ways to do this, each with advantages and disadvantages:

1) Contract an outside PCO on an ongoing basis
2) Hire a staff person to be the organizer
3) Partner with LocationTech

I’ll address each of these in turn :

1) Contract an outside PCO

This is the easiest thing to do. In fact, and this is very important to 
understand: OSGeo already hires an outside PCO, they just do so from scratch on 
an annual basis, in the most inefficient way possible.

If you want the really easy way out, hire the one we used this year. They did a 
good job at a reasonable price. They were already discussing with the Korea 
team about continuing the contract with them.

If you want to be more formal, solicit bids and choose one that way.

However you choose, choose with the assumption that the contract is an ongoing 
one as long as both parties are satisfied.

Disadvantages:
The only real objection I’ve heard to doing it this way is that it’s good to 
have someone with local knowledge. My response is that this is simply false. In 
fact, we chose our PCO in part based on that assumption. We were wrong. Heck, 
one of them even commented to me that it was a nice change to do a conference 
in Portland, since they hadn’t done so in years.
Some lack of flexibility: if OSGeo wants to expand the role (see below), then 
it requires a renegotiation of the contract, and a general PCO may not be the 
right choice for that role.
Advantages:
Institutional knowledge. The conference knowledge carries on in the 
organization, and is hopefully not entirely imbued in one person. 
Simplicity. We’re already doing it — just poorly.

2) Hire a staff person to be the organizer

This is more risk, but also offers more potential.

Advantages:

Having a staff person allow OSGeo to be more flexible in organizing 
conferences. Is there a budding regional conference that needs some assistance? 
We can help with that. Would OSGeo like to foster growth in regions without a 
local FOSS4G event? OSGeo can do that. 

Disadvantages:

You would only have one staff person, which means more risk of losing 
institutional knowledge if that person leaves.
Potential for no being seen as less of/no longer a volunteer led organization. 
(Personally, I think this fear is overwrought, but that doesn’t make it any 
less real. OSGeo already outsources jobs which its membership isn't qualified 
to do, for instance lawyers, accountants, and yes even PCOs.)
Hiring is hard, and takes time, especially to find a good autonomous person to 
take on this role

3) Partner with LocationTech

Obviously in the current context, this is a loaded proposition. I appreciate 
that there’s fear of take over or of “losing” FOSS4G and its income. I believe 
that can be allayed with a properly written contract. There seems to be a lot 
of speculation about what a partnership means, and not a lot of facts. 

I see this partnership as starting with LocationTech serving as a PCO and 
nothing more.  If both parties later want to expand that relationship, that can 
be done, but start with the PCO and treat it as no different than the proposal 
in (1).

Advantages:
LocationTech works in the same space, has contacts, and the Eclipse Foundation 
already runs conferences
Potential for future, deepened partnerships
Disadvantages:
LocationTech works in the same space, has contacts, and the Eclipse Foundation 
already runs conferences, so there’s a potential for conflicts of interest
If it doesn’t work out for whatever reason, future partnership opportunities 
might be lost

===

Those are a few of my many thoughts on the topic, and on my thoughts for the 
future of OSGeo, but I think it’s important to stay focused on bite-sized 
chunks for right now. If possible, let’s try to keep this (sub-)thread focused 
on the issue of FOSS4G and not on the larger questions about OSGeo.

Darrell


On Sep 16, 2014, at 07:38, Jeff McKenna jmcke...@gatewaygeomatics.com wrote:

 Hello everyone,
 
 To clarify publicly, I have no problem with LocationTech, and in 

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Hacking OSGeo

[Darrell Fuhriman]

The video under question is here: https://vimeo.com/106232256

We’ve got about 50% of the videos up, but the remainder will have to wait a 
week since we’ve hit our weekly upload limits on vimeo.

Darrell

On Sep 15, 2014, at 13:37, Kristin Bott bo...@reed.edu wrote:

 Kathleen Danielson's talk can be found here: 
 http://kathleen.getcourse.com/embed.html?course=74708aa8-d180-4482-bdff-da740e27eec9#/
 
 Recorded sessions aren't up yet, but I know Darrell is working on it.
 
 -k.bott
 
 On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Jody Garnett jody.garn...@gmail.com wrote:
 Crap - I guess this means I better set up another incubation committee 
 meeting :)
 
 There was a great talk at foss4g about burnout (anyone got a link?). I always 
 try and respect the volunteers I am working with ...
 
 Rant: Please remember that YOU are a volunteer you are working with, respect 
 your time appropriately.
 --
 Jody
 
 Jody Garnett
 
 On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 2:07 PM, Jeff McKenna jmcke...@gatewaygeomatics.com 
 wrote:
 Jody, your response is perfect.  I do get upset too often (or actually, I 
 take quite a lot, but eventually am set off).  I apologize for this, I will 
 try to be better.  I am slowly improving.  But I could be better.
 
 To get myself back on track, I decided a few minutes ago (mentioned on the 
 Board list) by doing some little things for OSGeo right now.  And you'll be 
 happy to hear that one of them is Incubation-related: give a push with the 
 pycsw team for the next steps (code review etc), as I am their mentor.
 
 Thanks again for being the voice of reason Jody.  Let's all do as Jody says, 
 and I am sure these tricky points will work themselves out.
 
 -jeff
 
 
 
 On 2014-09-15 4:57 PM, Jody Garnett wrote:
 Well I don't like you get upset Jeff, you are correct that patches
 speak louder than emails.
 
 If I could put a plug in for the incubation committee - we would really
 love some more volunteers. We have a couple projects waiting to get in
 and all we need is a mentor to be a friendly voice/email contact.
 
 The stuff we do at OSGeo can be very intimidating (starting a steering
 committee - gasp!) or require sensitivity (trade mark conflict). Having
 a mentor to email or Skype can be of great assistance.
 --
 Jody Garnett
 
 On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:02 PM, Jeff McKenna
 jmcke...@gatewaygeomatics.com mailto:jmcke...@gatewaygeomatics.com
 wrote:
 
 Why is there this sudden need to point out things like this?  This
 is the part that makes my heart drop.  (and the underlying meaning
 of the subject of this email) Instead of pointing out issues, maybe
 those making these noises can spend that time on the marketing
 committee, or tackling on the membership issue.
 
 I personally have no problem with LocationTech, in fact I agree they
 play a very important role for businesses.  I do have a problem
 however with pointing out problems with OSGeo and our baby, FOSS4G;
 instead of pointing out problems, I feel those same people could be
 diving into helping OSGeo grow and pick up the ball themselves.
 
 -jeff
 
 
 
 
 
 On 2014-09-15 2:56 PM, Bart van den Eijnden wrote:
 
 Why is this not true? I think you are misinterpreting here Jeff.
 
 Membership in OSGeo is a single person. Yes this person can
 belong to a company or run their own company, but membership is
 still personal.
 
 Bart
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On 15 sep. 2014, at 19:45, Jeff McKenna
 jmcke...@gatewaygeomatics.com
 mailto:jmcke...@gatewaygeomatics.com__ wrote:
 
 On 2014-09-15 1:22 PM, Daniel Morissette wrote:
 the members in OSGeo are individuals and the members in
 Eclipse/LocationTech are businesses
 
 
 
 Daniel this statement is not true, regarding OSGeo.  OSGeo
 members are made up of all walks of life, and many are
 running private businesses all around the world.  I have
 visited their organizations/offices myself in my FOSS4G
 travels throughout the years.
 
 However I cannot change how you feel.
 
 This part is unfortunate, these strong statements made
 publicly, which I feel are made to divide our community.
 
 Let me reinforce: our OSGeo community and our FOSS4G events
 (of all sizes) are geared for everyone and anyone, with no
 sole focus on one type of community.  And as the President
 of OSGeo, I am happy to represent all of the members, of any
 kind :)
 
 -jeff
 
 
 ___
 Discuss mailing list
 Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
 http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
 
 
 ___
 Discuss mailing list
 Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
 http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
 
 
 
 -- 
 Kristin Bott 
 

[OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G Early Bird Discount ends soon

[Darrell Fuhriman]

Just a quick reminder that the FOSS4G early bird discount ends on June 15th at 
11:59 GMT-7. Get registered now!

And when you register, don’t forget to donate to our travel grant fund to help 
strengthen the diversity of the conference. 

Darrell

___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

Re: [Talk-us] USBRS WikiProject seeks volunteer mappers

[Darrell Fuhriman]

I’ve always thought the “signage” thing was a little absurd anyway — as if the 
signs are somehow the official documentation and not a reflection of the 
official documentation. Yet somehow, using the official documentation becomes 
an import. That makes no sense to me.

Darrell


 Steve wasn't talking about proposed routes at all: USBRs 1, 10, 36, 37, and 
 50 are officially approved routes. There's nothing to open, though the 
 signage situation varies from state to state. AASHTO designation doesn't come 
 with a deadline for signage, but the state DOTs didn't go through the trouble 
 of getting local and national approval just to sit on these designations. And 
 when the signs do go up, we can be assured that they'll go up along the 
 officially approved routes.


___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

[OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G Update: Keynotes, Travel Grants, Volunteer Discounts

[Darrell Fuhriman]

** Two new keynote speakers added to 2014 lineup


We are delighted to announce Sarah Novotny of NGINX and Al Shaw of ProPublica 
as keynote speakers for FOSS4G 2014. They join Mike Bostock of the New York 
Times in this year's lineup.

Novotny is a technical evangelist and community manager for NGINX, founder of 
Blue Gecko, and is currently a program chair for O’Reilly Media’s OSCON. Shaw 
is a news applications developer at ProPublica and the creator of an award 
winning series of interactive maps documenting FEMA's response to Hurricane 
Sandy.


** Travel Grant Program


To make sure that as many deserving people as possible can attend FOSS4G, we 
have created a travel grant program with funds to help cover registration, 
lodging, and travel costs. If you are excited about open source geospatial work 
but have economic barriers to attendance, we strongly encourage you to apply. 
Applications are due May 30th, and awardees will be notified mid-June.

Our travel grants are community funded; your donations help bring more of your 
colleagues to the conference. Consider an additional donation when you register 
for the conference or as a stand-alone contribution. If every attendee gave 
just $20, we could bring an additional 20 people to the conference.


** Volunteer Discounts


We will also have a limited number of volunteer positions available; in 
exchange for a full day of work, volunteers will be eligible for a discounted 
rate of $125. Students will be given preference for these volunteer positions 
until July 1st. More details on the volunteer program and travel grants.


** Important Conference Dates


See the full calendar (https://2014.foss4g.org/about/calendar/) for more 
details.
* June 15th: Early bird registration ends
* Sept 8th-9th: Workshops
* Sept 10th-12th: Main Conference
* Sept 13th: Code Sprint

___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

Re: [Talk-us] Why we really don't get new users

[Darrell Fuhriman]

I made exactly this point a while back on the diversity-talk list.

The consequence of this is that by self-limiting *who* the mappers are, we also 
limit the types of things that will ever appear on the map.

It’s even evident in your statement This map geek and his son?” — a point that 
well made by Alyssa Wright in her discussion at SotM of the gendered nature of 
OSM data.

Plus, most (all?) of the tools assume you might want to edit anything and 
everything on the map. Most people probably don’t, and seeing streets and ways 
and relations when all you really wanted to do was add your child’s school, or 
the new bike path for them to get school is going to be an immediate turn off.

That being said, things like PushPin and iD have gone a long way to lowering 
the barrier to entry, but it’s still pretty damn substantial.

Darrell


On Mar 17, 2014, at 5:13 PM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote:

 On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 11:17 AM, o...@charles.derkarl.org wrote:
 
 I'm going to just point out the elephant in the room here. I don't think any
 normal user cares about the license at all. I think the actual reason its hard
 to get new mappers, especially those that are not nerdy and obsessive like
 myself is that *the ontology sucks*. There, I said it, so you don't have to.
 
 I think the real reason is that there's just one model: mapping as an end to 
 itself.
 Just look at the outreach material: it talks about mapping as an end, and 
 encourages
 people to get involved in this nebulous thing called mapping, as if that was 
 enough.
 
 Map geeks?  Check.
 This map geek and his son? Check.
 Other people?  Hmm.
 
 How about map all the pubs in your area?  Or Find the world's best map of 
 hiking trails
 and help keep the map strong by editing if needed?  Or contribute to the 
 world's
 best map of speed cameras?  Or Map free library locations (e.g. 
 http://littlefreelibrary.org/ and clones)?
 
 Maybe the pool of obsessive mappers is drawing thin.
 The pool of pub enthusiasts, however, is as strong as ever.
 ___
 Talk-us mailing list
 Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

[OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G Workshop Proposal Reminder and Opening Keynote Announcement

[Darrell Fuhriman]

A few updates to round out your week.

** Opening Keynote Speaker


We are pleased to announce that Mike Bostock (http://bost.ocks.org/mike/) will 
be featured as the opening keynote speaker for FOSS4G 2014.

Bostock designs interactive graphics for The New York Times. He is also the 
author of D3.js (http://d3js.org) , a popular open-source library for 
visualizing data using web standards, and TopoJSON 
(https://github.com/mbostock/topojson) , an extension to GeoJSON that encodes 
topology.

D3.js is one of the most exciting visualization technologies to appear 
recently, and we're very excited to have Mike at FOSS4G. You can see some of 
his work at his website (http://bost.ocks.org/mike/) and be sure to check out 
his numerous elegant D3.js examples at http://bl.ocks.org/mbostock.


** Workshop Proposal Reminder

Workshop Proposals are due March 15th, just a couple of days away. We've had 
lots of great submissions, but would love to have yours, too. Workshops are 
always very popular, and are a great way to introduce people to your work. No 
project or idea is too small to be worth submitting.

Read the Call for Workshops 
(https://2014.foss4g.org/calls-for-papers/workshop-proposals/)  or go right to 
the submission page (https://2014.foss4g.org/submit-workshop/) .


** Upcoming Dates


Workshop Proposals Due - March 15th
Registration Begins - April 1st
Academic Track Papers Due - April 15th
Presentation Submissions Due - April 15th
Workshops - Sept 8th-9th
Main Conference - Sept 10th-12th
Code Sprint - Sept 13th





smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] MS Geospatial programs focused on FOSS4G

[Darrell Fuhriman]

It doesn't focus exclusively on FOSS4G (no sane program would), but the  Penn 
State program makes fairly extensive use of FOSS tools, especially in the 
programming classes.

Darrell


On Dec 6, 2013, at 07:54, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote:

 Dear everyone,
 
 A couple of colleagues are asking me this.  Are there any
 MS/scholarship GIS programs that focuses on the use of FOSS4G?
 
 -- 
 cheers,
 maning
 --
 Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden
 wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/
 blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
 --
 ___
 Discuss mailing list
 Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
 http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4G 2013 Nottingham archiving

[Darrell Fuhriman]

The Cookbook,  Lessons Learned, and the recent 2013 summary have been  the most 
valuable for us.

The archive may have some value as a historical artifact, but that kind of 
higher level stuff is far more valuable. The day to day discussion threads 
simply do not matter.

And I'm with Steven, wikis suck as a project management tool. At best they're 
good as somewhat organized record of what was done (e.g. meeting notes). For 
actually getting work done, there are far better tools out there.

Darrell


On Dec 5, 2013, at 03:04, Steven Feldman shfeld...@gmail.com wrote:

 Jeff
 
 You have raised the topic of our use of basecamp several times. I believe the 
 LOC has the right and the need to choose the internal comms tool that works 
 best for it. We chose basecamp and it worked well for us, much much better 
 than dysfunctional mailing lists or a wiki. Those who follow on can make 
 their own choices.
 
 Re the archiving of logo file, discussions etc. We have committed to doing 
 this and will deliver in a way that may be useful to others although I doubt 
 that Portland or anyone following will ever look at this stuff, I know we 
 never looked in the SVN at previous years' archives



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

[OSGeo-Discuss] Suggest a keynote/invited talk speaker for FOSS4G 2014

[Darrell Fuhriman]

Greetings denizens of osgeo-discuss,

I hope you're having a great fall. 

We here on the FOSS4G 2014 Committee are looking for a few good women (or men) 
to speak in our invited speaker slots. We know who we know, but the collective 
knowledge of community is so much broader. We need you to let us know who you 
know!

Have you seen someone give a great talk, and think they deserve a bigger 
audience? Is there an unsung hero, who deserves a platform to talk about their 
work? Or is there someone you'd just really like to see speak? Don't assume we 
already know about them – unless it's Paul Ramsey. We know who he is. You can 
even suggest yourself! (Unless you're Paul Ramsey.)

Take 30 seconds and tell us about her (or him)! 

We've created form to track your suggestions:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1uhZR4hW7h43c8cQq1_eY2-lhfbCj8M14gn_0x7D9VuE/viewform

We look forward to hearing your ideas.

Darrell Fuhriman
Organizing Committee Chair, FOSS4G 2014


smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

Re: [Talk-us] scanned USGS Topo Layer?

[Darrell Fuhriman]

Yes, exactly.

I know we're all obsessed with computers and stuff, but those guys were damn 
good at what they did, and shouldn't be underestimated. (Whether the maps are 
at an appropriate scale is a different issue.)

But there's very little, if any, effort in keeping the quads up to date 
anymore. All the effort is focused on the national atlas.

Darrell


On Dec 2, 2013, at 10:02, Apollinaris Schoell ascho...@gmail.com wrote:

 as far as I have seen topo maps they are all from the 70’s or older. usually 
 the accuracy is pretty good where things haven’t changed  since. 
 
 
 
 On Dec 2, 2013, at 9:37 AM, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net wrote:
 
 On 12/2/13 10:01 AM, Richard Welty wrote:
 
 i guess what it comes down to is that the USGS quads are good
 for topo data but otherwise they're basically historic documents.
 and it turns out the quad that i was interested in, Bash Bish Falls
 on the western CT/MA border, dates from 1958. so the USGS quad
 layer is good for topo and historic info, but it is most assuredly
 not even close to current.
 
 richard
 
 ___
 Talk-us mailing list
 Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
 
 
 ___
 Talk-us mailing list
 Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] scanned USGS Topo Layer?

[Darrell Fuhriman]

Exactly my point. Just printed versions of the national atlas data.

d.

On Dec 2, 2013, at 13:18, Jeffrey Ollie j...@ocjtech.us wrote:

 On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 12:11 PM, Darrell Fuhriman darr...@garnix.org wrote:
 
 Yes, exactly.
 
 I know we're all obsessed with computers and stuff, but those guys were damn 
 good at what they did, and shouldn't be underestimated. (Whether the maps 
 are at an appropriate scale is a different issue.)
 
 But there's very little, if any, effort in keeping the quads up to date 
 anymore. All the effort is focused on the national atlas.
 
 http://www.directionsmag.com/articles/us-topo-a-new-national-map-series/178707
 
 -- 
 Jeff Ollie



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] NC-SC Border survey

[Darrell Fuhriman]

They aren't changing the border, they're finding it. 

d. 

 On Nov 13, 2013, at 4:56, Kevin Kenny kken...@nycap.rr.com wrote:
 
 On 11/13/2013 07:12 AM, Mike N wrote:
 As Richard mentioned, the next best source of data will be TIGER 2013, or 
 those rare counties who have open, OSM compatible open data policies.
 The Constitution also requires that any change to a state line requires an 
 act of Congress.
 
 Good luck getting our current Congress to agree on anything. (If the D's are 
 for it, the R's must be against it, and vice versa.)
 
 -- 
 73 de ke9tv/2, Kevin
 
 
 ___
 Talk-us mailing list
 Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Locations for State of the Map US 2014

[Darrell Fuhriman]

Having recently visited St Louis, I think that would be a great location. 
Inexpensive, well connected by air, and with several charming, walkable 
neighborhoods. Plus there are a number of Universities that might have 
inexpensive facilities. 

I would prefer that to expensive cities like Chicago and especially DC. And 
since I think a lot of people, like me, pay to attend out of their own pocket, 
cheap lodging is a big plus. (SF was a great conference, but brutal on the 
pocketbook). 

d. 



 On Nov 13, 2013, at 5:48, Eric Theise ericthe...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 No question DC could host SotM US in style, but I'd be thrilled to see
 it move to the heartland. Too big of a stretch for it to be in
 Chicago?
 
 Eric
 
 On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 5:41 AM, Jeffrey Johnson ortel...@gmail.com wrote:
 Ok well don't let me get in your way! DC is always just a pretty easy
 default location and Boundless (OpenGeo) has organized conferences there
 before with MapBox. Happy to help if we can.
 
 On Nov 13, 2013, at 5:37, Kathleen Danielson kathleen.daniel...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
 If we're going to be getting proposals from folks, I think I'd like to see
 that within a week, so 11/20 at the latest. We're moving very quickly on our
 end to come up with viable solutions, so I don't want to delay. I hope you
 understand!
 
 
 On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 8:31 AM, Jeffrey Johnson ortel...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Ok, let me ask a few folks what they think, including Bonnie, and I'll get
 back to the list. What are the preferred dates?
 
 On Nov 13, 2013, at 5:29, Kathleen Danielson
 kathleen.daniel...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Hi Jeff,
 
 If you or someone at Boundless (or someone else in DC) would like to put
 together a proposal for DC, those of us on the board would be happy to read
 it! What we need in a proposal can be found here:
 http://openstreetmap.us/2013/09/call-for-locations-sotm-us/
 
 We'll need a very quick turnaround, but let us know if you start working
 on a proposal and we'll give you a sense of our timeline.
 
 Thanks!
 Kathleen
 
 
 On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 8:23 AM, Jeffrey Johnson ortel...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
 What about DC that time of year? I'd really like to see more cooperation
 among USG agencies using and contributing to OSM and that may be a great
 time/place to kick that off. I'm sure Bonnie et al wouldn't object ;) I
 believe my employer (boundless) would be willing to help organize if it was
 close to home.
 
 On Nov 13, 2013, at 5:14, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Hi Jeff,
 
 We didn't receive any location proposals, so we're working on locations
 and will announce when we have something set up.
 
 Since the global SotM event is usually held in the second half of the
 year we've moved the time frame for SotM US up to Spring so that it's not
 too close to the global event. This puts us in March-May and FOSS4G is in
 September. Also, we've already had a SotM in Portland and while it was
 pretty darn great, we're trying to spread the love to other cities, too.
 
 -Ian
 
 On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 12:21 AM, Jeffrey Johnson ortel...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
 According to the CfP, the decision should have been made by the end of
 last month. Anyone have any idea where the decision making progress is at?
 Also curious why it couldn't be held in the fall in conjunction with 
 FOSS4G
 in Portland? Haven't heard much of anything on the global event either at
 this point.
 
 Thanks in advance!
 
 Jeff
 
 On Friday, September 13, 2013, Bonnie Bogle wrote:
 
 Hi everyone,
 The call for locations for State of the Map US 2014 is open! Find out
 all about it on the openstreetmap.us blog:
 
 http://openstreetmap.us/2013/09/call-for-locations-sotm-us/
 
 State of the Map US is a great opportunity to bring US and
 international mappers together with folks from government, business,
 nonprofit, education, and more. It's about coming together and discussing
 the future of OpenStreetMap, and about bringing OpenStreetMap to a wider
 audience to grow it in numbers and diversity. This coming year we're 
 aiming
 for a Spring date in March through May.
 
 We look forward to your submissions!
 
 Cheers,
 Bonnie
 
 
 ___
 Talk-us mailing list
 Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
 
 
 ___
 Talk-us mailing list
 Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
 
 ___
 Talk-us mailing list
 Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Locations for State of the Map US 2014

[Darrell Fuhriman]

On Nov 12, 2013, at 10:21 PM, Jeffrey Johnson ortel...@gmail.com wrote:

  Also curious why it couldn't be held in the fall in conjunction with FOSS4G 
 in Portland? Haven't heard much of anything on the global event either at 
 this point.
 

If by global event you mean FOSS4G and not SOTM, rest assured we're cranking 
away on getting things ready. There should be some exciting announcements in 
the near future.

Darrell



___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Locations for State of the Map US 2014

[Darrell Fuhriman]

 I meant the more 'global' SotM, not sure what the plan is for that in
 the fall. Its been very close to FOSS4G for the last several
 iterations, and wondering if that will be the case again in portland?

No one from SOTM has been in contact with us about it. We're certainly happy to 
help to the extent we can, if that's what the organizers want to do.

I don't know if any of the organizers on this list or not.

Darrell




smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Locations for State of the Map US 2014

[Darrell Fuhriman]

 
 at's right and we're very close to nailing down NYC or Chicago. We're about 
 to hear back final numbers from a series of venues we've researched and 
 reached out to. This will allow us to come up with a final budget and a 
 decision on where to do SOTM-US in 2014. I'd love to keep focused on closing 
 this down for 2014 in one of those two cities.


Ugh. Well, I guess we know who has an expense account. 

Of those two, Chicago is preferable for being merely expensive as opposed to 
Are you f-ing kidding me expensive.

d.



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Imports-us] Request from OSM US Import Committee

[Darrell Fuhriman]

I'm not sure what's being asked for here. Something about wikis and templates, 
and wouldn't it be nice if it were better on mobile.

Perhaps you could be more clear about what you're asking for help with, and 
maybe provide examples so people can get a handle on the scale of what you're 
asking for.

Darrell

On Nov 12, 2013, at 05:34, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote:

 Folks,
 
 At last night's meeting, we discussed the issues we have around
 understanding our import catalog. The wiki contains a category for
 imports, but the pages within it are difficult to parse and when
 something changes, they must be changed manually everywhere.
 
 Paul brought up how the iOS software page is generated automatically
 from a bot which gathers data from the wiki and then collects it on
 one page.
 
 Due to the importance of imports, we would like the same thing.
 
 What's stopping us is resources. None of those in attendance last
 night (myself, Paul Norman, Clifford Snow, Jason Remillard, or Rich
 Welty) have the time to create a template and then modify the existing
 pages to that template.
 
 We decided that we would ask the community for help in this. We are
 asking the US Import mailing list first, but also asking the board, in
 case they have resources they could dedicate to this effort, which we
 hope will be a large step forward in helping reform the chaos around
 imports in OpenStreetMap.
 
 Thank you,
 
 - Serge
 
 ___
 Imports-us mailing list
 Imports-us@openstreetmap.org
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports-us



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
___
Imports-us mailing list
Imports-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports-us

Re: [Talk-us] Battle Grid new improved

[Darrell Fuhriman]

 Unfortunately the Census is often wrong. I hope they are paying attention to 
 the work we are doing.

Too bad they're forbidden from incorporating it directly from OSM. :-|

d.



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Imports-us] OSM US Import Document Draft

[Darrell Fuhriman]

On Nov 4, 2013, at 16:52, Brian H Wilson br...@wildsong.biz wrote:

 
 I think this cannot be answered wholesale. It is for the OSM community
 to reach out to others - GIS community or elsewhere
 
 What is this OSM community you keep talking about?

To my mind, the OSM Community is anyone who wants to be part of it. The OSM 
Community and GIS Community is a false dichotomy.

At best, one should say OSM community members who come from a GIS background.

There's no sense creating a division where there needn't be one.

 The only people I know of locally (rural Oregon) who are more than vaguely 
 interested in OSM are GIS professionals. Most people here think maps are 
 paper things that come from AAA.
 
 If you want OSM to succeed outside cities then you need to refine your 
 thinking and your tactics.

This is part of why the diversity-talk mailing list was created – as an 
explicit acknowledgement that the OSM Community is not an inclusive as it 
should be, claims to be, or aspires to be. You should join us!   
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/diversity-talk

Darrell



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
___
Imports-us mailing list
Imports-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports-us

Re: [Talk-us] GNIS tag removal proposal

[Darrell Fuhriman]

On Aug 21, 2013, at 10:19, Apollinaris Schoell ascho...@gmail.com wrote:

 The ele tag is of unknown accuracy. It can be off by much more for mountains. 
 This is the case when it's a real steep cliff between the sampling of NED 
 data. found one peak where it was off by 300ft this is simply wrong and not 
 useful. 
 

I'm hesitant to simply remove everything simply because some are inaccurate. 
I'd prefer to find a way to fix the incorrect ones.

Darrell



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] GNIS tag removal proposal

[Darrell Fuhriman]

On Aug 21, 2013, at 10:38, Steven Johnson sejohns...@gmail.com wrote:

 I am strenuously in favor of keeping whichever feature ID enables us to know 
 the lineage and provenance of the GNIS point. That bit of metadata can be 
 useful for downstream uses. 

I agree. While I know some are not fans of the various feature ids that many 
imports have, I think they're valuable, and would lean to keeping them where 
possible.

Darrell




smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Imports-us] NJ Landuse import (NJ2002LULC)

[Darrell Fuhriman]

 
 The 2012 Land Use is not yet available but it is in process and the
 estimated delivery date that I've received from our state GIO is mid-2014.
 I would be more than happy to work with other interested mappers on the
 2007 land use data and develop a plan to replace the existing 2002 data
 with the 2012 once it is available.


This would seem to me to be the best option, though I think it would be good to 
first do a bulk edit that changes landuse=scrub to natural=scrub.

Working through this list to make the updates happen will avoid some of the 
issues those arose with the 2002 data.  If we can do it in a way that is 
automatable for the 2007 data, that would probably translate relatively easily 
into the 2012 data when it comes out.

I would think it would be easy enough to do an extract and compare of the data 
currently in OSM with the 2007 data and the 2007 CIR photos and Bing imagery  
to see if there are areas that require manual attention.

Darrell



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
___
Imports-us mailing list
Imports-us@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports-us

Re: [Imports-us] NJ Landuse import (NJ2002LULC)

[Darrell Fuhriman]

I won't argue with your first two points, however...


 3. The import is wrong in a number of places
 
 I don't know if it's because the import is old, but the data is simply
 wrong in many areas.


Based on what? It's great to declare it's simply wrong but there should be a 
little bit more justification than that. Many areas? How many? How much of the 
total area do these simply wrong areas entail? Why are they simply wrong? 
And further, why is it being wrong in a number of places justification for 
removing everything in its entirety?


 4. I disagree with many areas' subjective data
 
 One of my bigger frustrations with this import is that I simply
 disagree with some of the classifications, especially scrub, and
 this is very typical of landuse classifications- they're highly
 subjective.

Totally disagree. Subjective is not the same as something I disagree with.

Scrub/Shrub is fairly well defined classification (albeit, one of the less 
clear ones), with a body of scholarly literature behind it. They have been 
defined, and photo-identified by trained experts, and often rely on data that 
may not be available in visible photos (soil types, historical use records, 
infrared bands), or obvious without training (vegetation types).

While I won't argue that these are 100% objective (simply because I doubt 
there is any such thing), subjective is not the same as wrong, and there are 
often good reasons to trust one person's subjective opinion over another's.


 I think that unlike the TIGER work that's being proposed, this import
 is not really fixable. In order to fix it, the relations and their
 component ways would basically need to be reconstructed. The work
 would be huge and so complex I don't think that it would be doable
 without some serious software engineering.

I'm skeptical of this statement, though I will admit to not having looked 
closely at the data.

 So my proposal is to remove this import entirely.

My preference is to fix, rather than to remove.

Darrell



___
Imports-us mailing list
Imports-us@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports-us

Re: [Talk-us] Chapter Board Elections

[Darrell Fuhriman]

 
 We have more voting members than ever before (thanks in part to the 
 membership drives around the previous SOTM US conferences) so the upcoming 
 elections should be interesting and important!

How does one check their membership status?  I can't find it anywhere, and I 
can't remember if I'm current...

d.



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] what do we mean by geocoding?

[Darrell Fuhriman]

 
 Part of the reason that the USPS disavows a geographic boundary for ZIP Codes 
 is that they often keep residential delivery and commercial delivery and 
 high-rise delivery (having apts or suites) separate even when they are next 
 to each other on the street.  This can be confusing if you assume a 
 geographic basis for ZIP Codes.
 
 Carl.

I've always thought the best way to think of it is that ZIP codes are built 
from delivery routes. In essence they are linear features. 

My favorite example is that many National Parks have a DC ZIP code, despite 
being.. well… a long way from DC, because mail is routed through the National 
Park Service headquarters.

d.






smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Removing US Bicycle Route tags

[Darrell Fuhriman]

Well then, we can use them to hide the parking lot symbols in DC. 

d. 

On Jun 14, 2013, at 15:11, alyssa wright alyssapwri...@gmail.com wrote:

 Don't knock the unicorn viewing sites. They are everywhere.  
 
 On Jun 14, 2013, at 5:55 PM, Darrell Fuhriman darr...@garnix.org wrote:
 
 Please for the love of god, I see no one here in favor of it but you. They 
 are imaginary, let's delete them and move on. 
 
 They have no more place in OSM than unicorn viewing locations and alien 
 landing sites. 
 
 d. 
 
 On Jun 14, 2013, at 14:43, Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote:
 
 Again, I'm still not hearing a suggestion that would keep this valuable 
 information in OSM, or a compelling reason not to keep it.  We do map 
 proposed routes, we don't map for the renderer.  It still sounds like the  
 core issue is some proposals are mapped more specifically than they are on 
 paper.  I don't think this is an insurmountable problem to fix within the 
 boundaries of not tagging for the renderer.  With that in mind, I would 
 love to hear ideas how to tackle the proposed corridor issue so that they 
 may be more properly mapped, not outright excluded over cyclemap rendering 
 issues.
 
 On Jun 9, 2013 7:25 AM, KerryIrons irons54vor...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
 Paul,
 
  
 
 You explicitly said that putting 50 mile wide corridors on OSM “would be 
 an important advocacy tool.”
 
  
 
 That does not sound at all like “mapping reality.”
 
  
 
 I spend hundreds of hours a year on the phone, corresponding, and 
 attending meetings to make the USBR a reality.  I’ve personally been 
 involved in getting over 2,000 miles of USBRs approved.  Don’t give me 
 stuff about being obtuse and saying the USBRS is a pipe dream.  Personal 
 insults are not the path forward.
 
  
 
 Kerry Irons
 
  
 
  
 
 From: Paul Johnson [mailto:ba...@ursamundi.org] 
 Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2013 11:24 PM
 To: OpenStreetMap talk-us list
 Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Removing US Bicycle Route tags
 
  
 
  
 
 On Sat, Jun 8, 2013 at 3:18 PM, KerryIrons irons54vor...@sbcglobal.net 
 wrote:
 
 So Paul, what you really want is advocacy mapping.  Not mapping reality 
 but mapping what you want to have.  It comes as a great surprise to me 
 that this is what OSM is all about.  Do you think this is the consensus of 
 the OSM community?  I thought OSM’s goal was to “accurately describe the 
 world” but you are saying it is also advocacy.
 
 
 No, that's not what I'm advocating, and honestly, the way you're 
 approaching this now, I really have to be wondering if you're being 
 deliberately obtuse.  Because if that's actually where you're coming from, 
 you're essentially saying that the USBR system is a pipe dream.  I'm not 
 ready to buy that argument because the premise is fundamentally flawed on 
 a level amounting to argumentum ad absurdum.
 
 ___
 Talk-us mailing list
 Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
 ___
 Talk-us mailing list
 Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Neighborhoods / Zillow

[Darrell Fuhriman]

But how would such a thing be tagged?


For instance, here in Portland, we have defined neighborhoods, which have 
neighborhood associations, and a city bureau (the Office of Neighborhood 
Involvement) dedicated to working with those organizations. They are, in a very 
real, if not technically legal sense, administrative units of the City.

There is often good correlation between perceived/colloquial neighborhood, and 
the boundaries defined by the ONI, but not always.

So is there a need to distinguish in tags perceived neighborhoods and 
administrative defined ones? And, if we insist on being able to ground truth 
something, do perceived neighborhoods even belong anywhere in OSM? (For the 
record, I think the ground truth requirement to be quite often untenable…)

d.


On Jun 11, 2013, at 12:57, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org wrote:

 Yea, I think this is where sources like Geonames and Zillow, which are built 
 (to an extent) based on actual perceived names rather than official ones, 
 could be so valuable - and why GNIS populated places are detrimental to OSM 
 map quality, at least in many urban areas.
 
 



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Neighborhoods / Zillow

[Darrell Fuhriman]

 
 One last thought. nextdoor.com is attempting to build on the concept of 
 neighborhoods.  I wonder if we could partner with them to get more help 
 identifying their neighborhoods. Similar to Steve Coast's app that asked 
 people to pick the front door of a house. Imagine if we had a bunch of people 
 point to and name what they considered was their neighborhood. 

You'd end up with this:

http://bostonography.com/images/misc/neighborhoods_labeled.jpg

Discussed here:

http://bostonography.com/2012/wanted-your-map-of-boston-neighborhoods/

d.



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [lopsa-discuss] Great Interview Questions

[Darrell Fuhriman]

On May 9, 2013, at 15:54, Nathan Hruby nhr...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 3 and 4 are particularly pernicious as they reinforce the dominant position 
 of the interviewer, which again is not a good place to put an interviewee 
 (or establish in a workplace).
 
 5) These people are horrible, I don't want this job anymore.
[…]
 trapped.  After the Gotcha moment and a good round of laughs I
 realized these were not the people I wanted to work with.
 
 Remember, the candidate is interviewing you, too.


+1 – I actually think this kind of insensitivity to people and to power 
dynamics is pervasive in our industry, and is one of the reasons our industry 
as a whole has such a shameful (and self-reinforcing) gender imbalance.

Darrell



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.lopsa.org
https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators
 http://lopsa.org/

Re: [Talk-us] Examples Gov using OSM

[Darrell Fuhriman]

The National Park Service. Mamata Akella talked about it at sotm.us, and she 
has a few blog posts on it, too:  
http://www.nps.gov/npmap/blog/introducing-park-tiles.html

d.


On Mar 26, 2013, at 06:50, Steven Johnson sejohns...@gmail.com wrote:

 
 I think Alex' inquiry was meant the other way round. That is, governments 
 using OSM data for whatever purpose. The example I'm most familiar with is 
 TriMet in Portland, OR, which uses OSM as a basemap for their TripPlanner. 
 [1] Are there other examples?
 
 [1]  http://trimet.org/go/cgi-bin/plantrip.cgi
 
 -- SEJ
 -- twitter: @geomantic
 -- skype: sejohnson8
 
 Wretches, utter wretches, keep your hands from beans. -Empedocles
 



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] 8 locations for spring editathon, where is yours?

[Darrell Fuhriman]

I just made the reservation. Portland is on for the 20th, 12:00-17:00 at the 
Lucky Lab Brewery, 915 SE Hawthorne. 

More details to follow. 

d. 

On Mar 26, 2013, at 17:58, Alex Barth a...@openstreetmap.us wrote:

 Ian Dees just added Chicago as city number 8 on our list for the spring 
 #editathon:
 
 http://www.openstreetmap.us/2013/03/april-spring-editathon/
 
 LA, Philadelphia, San Antonio, San Diego, Boston, Portland, San Francisco, 
 [your city here] = what about you?
 
 Let's grow this!
 
 -- 
 Alex Barth
 Secretary
 OpenStreetMap United States Inc.
 ___
 Talk-us mailing list
 Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [lopsa-discuss] Ideal router recommendation for a small/medium office?

[Darrell Fuhriman]

I use the community version of Vyatta across three sites, and it's been really 
stable. We have static VPNs between the three sites, and mobile users on two of 
those. Failover links are supported (and work, I've used 'em).

We use the native VPN clients on Windows and Mac and have it authenticating via 
radius to AD.

That being said, I wish it had a few more security features like better IPS - 
they had snort, but removed it, and some of the NGFW stuff, and a socks proxy 
would be nice as well.

It does seem the small-medium business with security needs is very poorly 
served by vendors. Bruce Schneier quotes Mark Rothman  
(http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2013/02/all_those_compa.html)

Back when I was on the vendor side, I'd joke about how 800 security companies 
chased 1,000 customers -- meaning most of the effort was focus on the 1,000 
largest customers in the world. But I wasn't joking. Every VP of sales talks 
about how it takes the same amount of work to sell to a Fortune-class 
enterprise as it does to sell into the midmarket. They aren't wrong, and it 
leaves a huge gap in the applicable solutions for the midmarket.

Actually, I'd like to start a discussion about that. Maybe I'll open another 
thread.

d.



On Mar 18, 2013, at 10:49, Morgan Blackthorne stormeri...@gmail.com wrote:

 We have around 40 or so users (looking to expand to more but not above 100 
 any time soon). Right now we've got a Netgear UCS device which we got because 
 we wanted something with integrated IPSec VPN. Except that Netgear's 
 implementation isn't exactly standard and you can't use it with the native 
 OSX/Windows clients, you have to use Netgear's client (or the company they 
 bought it from), which bypasses the original goal of being able to set it up 
 natively.



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.lopsa.org
https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators
 http://lopsa.org/

[lopsa-discuss] Small Business Network Security (was: Ideal router recommendation for a small/medium office?)

[Darrell Fuhriman]

Referencing my post in the thread I just hijacked, I said:

It does seem the small-medium business with security needs is very poorly 
served by vendors. Bruce Schneier quotes Mark Rothman  
(http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2013/02/all_those_compa.html)

Back when I was on the vendor side, I'd joke about how 800 security companies 
chased 1,000 customers -- meaning most of the effort was focus on the 1,000 
largest customers in the world. But I wasn't joking. Every VP of sales talks 
about how it takes the same amount of work to sell to a Fortune-class 
enterprise as it does to sell into the midmarket. They aren't wrong, and it 
leaves a huge gap in the applicable solutions for the midmarket.

Personally, I feel like I've run into this pretty hard. We're a small company 
(~30 now, hopefully more soon), but because of our industry — finance — our 
security requirements are getting stronger, or perhaps I should say, I believe 
our threats are likely to grow more sophisticated as we grow.

I feel like a company our size is not well served by the vendors – they're by 
and large targeting performance *and* features, whereas I need features, but 
not necessarily performance. It makes no difference to me if your product can 
push 1Gbps or 200Gbps – I'm on a 10Mbps link. Even low-end security appliances 
often inch up into the tens of thousands of dollars, which is just unrealistic 
for a company our size (which has three sites to manage, despite being a fairly 
low number of employees). Not to mention it seems that anything rack mountable 
instantly doubles in price. :)

We don't have the resources for a dedicated security person, but I'd like 
something that can enable relatively sophisticated network security.

Anyway, maybe I'm being whiny, but I do feel a bit like I'm being left out a 
little bit. I'd love to hear suggestions from other folks.

d.



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.lopsa.org
https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators
 http://lopsa.org/

Re: Stupid Language Designer Tricks

[Darrell Fuhriman]

Well, while we're ranting about stupid language design desisions...

I would like to dish out a special platter of hate for Puppet.

Well, not a programming language per se.

But Puppet is special in that it's intended to be a *descriptive* language.
So you describe how your servers are to be configured.


Ugh… let's not even talk about the broken-ass scoping and inheritance rules. (Which they are slowly improving, but ugh.) Oh and the false is a boolean if it's internal, but a string of it's from facter. That caused no end of confusion when if $var was continually evaluating as true, even though it was clearly defined as false, I mean false. 


I'm personally of the opinion that they should abandon the custom DSL in favor 
of a pure ruby implementation, but I seem to be on the losing end of that 
argument.

d.

Re: [lopsa-tech] 120v single-phase, 208v split-phase and three-phase in the data center.

[Darrell Fuhriman]

 utilizing less storage elements, and producing less waste.  That is true.
 Or you can just design a smarter A2D power supply, which efficiently uses
 the 120V single phase power.


I continue to wonder why more data centers don't use -48V DC distribution.

Darrell
___
Tech mailing list
Tech@lists.lopsa.org
https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech
This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators
 http://lopsa.org/

Re: [Puppet Users] Does Node Inheritance work for people?

[Darrell Fuhriman]

[Following up a little late]

 Is anyone using node inheritance and happy with how it works? If so, can you 
 describe your setup briefly? 

I make very limited use of node inheritance. I use

node basenode {
  include $operatingsystem
 [other stuff I want absolutely everywhere]
}

node default inherits basenode{}

node X inherits basenode {
  [more stuff]
}


I have little to add that the others haven't said, except to emphasize that the 
whole puppet inheritance model is broken.

I'm increasingly of the opinion that, were I designing puppet 3, I would 
completely ditch the custom syntax in favor of a more straight-up ruby DSL and 
take advantage of ruby inheritance abilities.

Darrell





-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
Puppet Users group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en.

Re: [Puppet Users] Re: What is the best practice to clean up installed components on a node?

[Darrell Fuhriman]

 
 Puppet does not keep track of the state before applying a resource.
 Even if Puppet *did* track prior state, there would still be an issue
 of choosing which of possibly many prior states to revert to.

I'm not asking puppet to know what to do, which I agree is ridiculous. I'm 
saying that if and only if I've defined X::disabled, automatically run it on 
every host which does not include X. If X::disabled isn't defined, then don't 
do anything.  Probably a better way to think of it instead of X::disabled is 
that for ever class X there is an implicitly defined not-X class, which is 
empty until I define it. For example:

class webserver {
package {apache: ensure = installed}
service {apache: ensure = running}
}
class !webserver {
package {apache: ensure = absent}
}
class dnsserver {
[...]
}

node foo {
 include webserver
}
node bar {
 include dnsserver
}

On node bar, !webserver would get executed, but because I haven't defined 
!dnsserver, node foo wouldn't do anything related to dnsserver.

 As it is now, one still has to go through and add X::disabled to every host, 
 which is largely defeating the purpose of having a X::disabled class in the 
 first place. (That purpose, for those not paying attention, is to make sure 
 that things are in a known state, including services *not* running where 
 they shouldn't be.)
 
 
 I disagree.  The purpose of having an X::disabled is to define what
 exactly you do want when you explicitly want to exclude X.  Which
 nodes should have that state ensured is an entirely separate (and not
 clear-cut) question.  Unmanaged may not be the state you want for
 certain resources, but it is not inherently undesirable for all
 resources.


I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. It is perfectly reasonable 
to want to ensure that things which aren't webservers are, in fact, not running 
as webservers, If I want to leave a particular resource unmanaged, then just 
don't put anything in the !X class (or the X class, for that matter).  Maybe we 
have different approaches to how we manage resources, but I genuinely can't 
think of an example of where you would want some hosts to be X, some to be !X, 
and some to be unknown, which is kind of what I think you're saying here, 
because I can't think of anyway that unmanaged doesn't mean unknown.

Darrell

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
Puppet Users group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en.

Re: [Puppet Users] Re: What is the best practice to clean up installed components on a node?

[Darrell Fuhriman]

 
 That still isn't sensible.  It simply is not safe to assume that the
 absence of class X in a node's catalog is a signal that X::disabled
 should be included in that catalog.  For instance, suppose I have a
 pair X, X::disabled of classes specific to OS X.  I don't want *either
 one* on my CentOS boxes.

Fair enough.  I habitually write classes with something like:
class foo {
case $operatingsystem {
default: { fail (X is not implemented for $operatingsystem) }
centos {[...]}
darwin: {[...]}
   }
  []
}

So your scenario wouldn't affect me anyway. But I'm anal-rententive that way. I 
can't imagine why you *wouldn't* do that if you're going to be running on more 
than one platform.

I actually wish puppet had a 'confine' parameter for classes like it does for 
custom facts. It would make it easier to avoid shooting yourself in the foot.

  class foo {
confine $kernel = ['Linux', 'Darwin']
  }

Anyway, it's a problem, yes, but not an insurmountable one.


 Consider also what happens when X, Y, X::disabled, and Y::disabled all
 exist, and Y::disabled includes X. Suppose that after Puppet's initial
 pass to choose which classes to include, it sees that neither X nor Y
 is included, so it adds X::disabled and Y::disabled.  But Y::disabled
 includes X, so X::disabled shouldn't be included after all!  Or should
 it?

Well, in that situation the right answer would be that only X is included. How 
much work that is to implement in the current puppet parser, I have no idea. 
But that's irrelevant to the question at hand.

Plus, why the hell would anyone want to do that? If you put includes into your 
!X classes, you've clearly failed to understand the concept and should be taken 
far away from any keyboards and put into a systems administration re-education 
camp. I'd go so far as to say that any !X class could not include another class 
at all. (And obviously !X classes could not be included explicitly anywhere, 
since that's also fundamentally missing the point.)

 
  Maybe we have different approaches to how we manage resources, but I 
 genuinely can't think of an example of where you would want some hosts to be 
 X, some to be !X, and some to be unknown, which is kind of what I think 
 you're saying here, because I can't think of anyway that unmanaged doesn't 
 mean unknown.
 
 
 [...] Dev and test boxes present a wide
 variety of examples where looser management of some resources may be
 desired than for production boxes.


*shudder*  Down that path lies madness, if you ask me.  To my mind, either 
something's managed or it isn't – there is no alternative that doesn't end in 
tears. But again, these things are easily solved by saying something like:

class !foo {
  case $environment {
default: { #do nothing }
   production: { # do stuff }
  }
}

Because then at least you're forced to be explicit about what your management 
policy is, even if that policy is we let dev machines do whatever they want to 
service foo.

But that's because I want the puppet configs to be the first (and ideally only) 
place I need to go to find out what a given system's state is. That's why I 
automate in the first place. It's also the basis for my wanting a !X class – 
because currently I have no easy way of knowing if node Y is running a 
webserver or not without logging into it and checking. If I had a !webserver 
class, I could feel confident that node Y is not a webserver just by looking at 
the puppet configs.

That's good for security, good for auditing, good for performance, and good for 
piece of mind. :)

Darrell

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
Puppet Users group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en.

Re: [Puppet Users] Re: What is the best practice to clean up installed components on a node?

[Darrell Fuhriman]

I've always thought there should be an implicit X::disabled class that gets 
included for every host where X isn't included.

Then if I create said class, it gets automatically executed on all hosts that 
don't include X. As it is now, one still has to go through and add X::disabled 
to every host, which is largely defeating the purpose of having a X::disabled 
class in the first place. (That purpose, for those not paying attention, is to 
make sure that things are in a known state, including services *not* running 
where they shouldn't be.)

d.



 Create a class called sg_node::disabled that inherits sg_node and
 overrides all of it's resources to undo them.  This usually means
 setting 'ensure =absent' (or 'undef' if applicable) for most
 resources.  For execs, I usually set 'unless = true.'
 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
Puppet Users group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en.

Re: [Puppet Users] Re: wrong nodes.pp being accessed by the client

[Darrell Fuhriman]

No, you're right, at least as far as I've been able to tell – though I 
certainly may have overlooked something.

The puppetmaster only gets the configs from one environment, so you're stuck 
using that. There are other consequences as well, such as defined resources 
using the definition in the server's environment. Some of this is design, and 
some is from bugs: http://projects.puppetlabs.com/issues/4409

It is, to my mind, a pretty serious deficiency – one makes safely testing 
significant changes much harder. It's enough of a pain that I've considered 
running a separate puppet master just for serving the testing environment.

d.

On Jul 13, 2011, at 11:43, newguy wrote:

 I got the solution as I realize that puppet server needs to have only
 one nodes.pp for every environment and as client with different
 environments connect puppet looks for their module paths and install
 the respective packages, all the node entries irrespective of the
 environment they are attached to goes in the /etc/puppet/manifests/
 nodes.pp.
 
 Please correct me if I am wrong.
 
 On Jul 13, 11:18 am, newguy aimanparv...@gmail.com wrote:
 I have two development environments, main and development and  my
 puppet.conf looks like this:
 
 [main]
 logdir=/var/log/puppet
 vardir=/var/lib/puppet
 ssldir=/var/lib/puppet/ssl
 rundir=/var/run/puppet
 factpath=$vardir/lib/facter
 pluginsync=false
 templatedir=$confdir/templates
 prerun_command=/etc/puppet/etckeeper-commit-pre
 postrun_command=/etc/puppet/etckeeper-commit-post
 
 [development]
 modulepath = /etc/puppet/environments/development/modules
 manifests=/etc/puppet/environments/development/manifests/site.pp
 
 I have made nodes.pp for both environments.
 
 now when I execute the following on the client:
 puppetd --test --verbose --environment development
 it access the nodes.pp in the /etc/puppet/manifests rather than going
 to /etc/puppet/environments/development/manifests/nodes.pp
 
 In my site.pp stored at /etc/puppet/environments/development/manifests/
 site.pp I have the following:
 import 'nodes.pp'
 
 How should I make puppet access the correct nodes.pp???
 
 -- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 Puppet Users group.
 To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com.
 To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
 puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 For more options, visit this group at 
 http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
Puppet Users group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en.

Re: [lopsa-tech] NetApp confusion

[Darrell Fuhriman]

 
 I have very low expectations for VARs.  Most generally are a pass
 through to the larger company, taking a cut of the profit in exchange
 for doing some of the sales footwork for the vendor.

I always figured the purpose of a VAR was to decode the vendor's pricing 
structure.

Darrell

___
Tech mailing list
Tech@lists.lopsa.org
https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech
This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators
 http://lopsa.org/

Re: [lopsa-tech] Recommend a virtual hosting provider in AU?

[Darrell Fuhriman]

 geographic restriction. Is it because of concern about the network latency, 
 or 
 legality (e.g.: the data has to be hosted in Australia), or other reasons?

Right now, mostly A, but there's a good chance of B in the medium term, as well 
but also because Australia is where the client and the audience are located.

I guess I should add that I don't have my heart set on a VM over a dedicated 
server, but it's probably easier and cheaper to get redundancy for a single 
machine from a VM provider than it is to do the necessary redundancy ourselves. 
On the other hand, I've never been to Australia, so maybe a dedicated config is 
a good option. ;)

Darrell

___
Tech mailing list
Tech@lists.lopsa.org
https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech
This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators
 http://lopsa.org/

Re: Exchange Content Mangling

[Darrell Fuhriman]

 I am in Exchange training as we speak.  Yesterday the instructor was
 aghast: Who still supports IMAP?

This is so not the kind of thing I needed to see my first day back from 
vacation. The head-desk induced bruises on my forehead and finally all cleared 
up.

And now they're back...

d.

Re: [lopsa-discuss] 30% Apple

[Darrell Fuhriman]

On Feb 17, 2011, at 12:22, Ed wrote:

 and to agree not to sell their books anywhere else for a lower price
 is illegal restaint of trade and will get you busted by the feds (when
 they are doing their jobs)


OK, at the risk of adding to an already long thread, this is patently false, 
and is in fact a standard part of many wholesale contracts, though it's usually 
framed as If you sell the product at a lower price to anyone else, you have to 
give me the same price. Of course, it's likely only the big retailers that can 
successfully demand such a clause. But restraint of trade it isn't.

Darrell

___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.lopsa.org
https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators
 http://lopsa.org/

Re: This is why I gave up on Linux desktops

[Darrell Fuhriman]

 The most recent is Apple's scheme for preventing accidental engagement of 
 Caps Lock mode:  It doesn't engage unless you hold the key down for about a 
 quarter second -- longer than it takes me to hit it on purpose -- and this 
 behavior is IIRC wired into the keyboard and can't be disabled.  I can 
 understand not

Hmm... given that my recent vintage (1 yr) MacBook Pro (and even more recent 
iMac) quite happily has Caps Lock remapped to something useful (i.e. ctrl) 
without any delay makes me think this isn't in hardware.

 they *still* prefer to compromise than risk upsetting people over the loss of 
 the Caps Lock key.  Though apparently the numeric keypad is dispensable.

One down, one to go. I practically started weeping for joy when I could finally 
get a selection of keyboards without number pads. I could probably count on two 
hands the number of times I've used the number pad in decades of computer use. 
I can't imagine how many unnecessary miles I've had to move my hand to get to 
my mouse over those same decades. 

Darrell

Re: presented without comment

[Darrell Fuhriman]

 Asked why the problem had not been fixed, Mr. Killion said, “Believe
 me, if there’s a way to do it, we’d do it. Maybe there’s a way out
 there we don’t know about.”

When I got to this part of this article, I just about threw my laptop against 
the wall. Either Mr. Killion is a bald-faced liar and should be fired, or is so 
grossly incompetent that he should be fired.

But given the point of the article, I think the entire company should be fired.

Darrell

Re: If you knew what I wanted to do, why didn't you just do it?

[Darrell Fuhriman]

 This is not a court, it is a mob.

Less an angry mob and more a sullen, depressed, resigned to their fate kind of 
mob. 

Wait, doesn't that also describe zombies?

Darrell

Re: Obligatory hate on the hates-software web archive

[Darrell Fuhriman]

 Okay, you make a fair case for including a parenthetical (Sent from my phone 
 -- pardon my brevity) or such, specifically in those cases that call for it 
 -- if I take the time to tap out a full response, or my answer was short 
 anyway, then such a note is superfluous.

Plus, brevity is not a bad thing. To wit, the famous aphorism Please forgive 
the length of this letter, I did not have time to make it shorter.

What people are really apologizing for is sloppiness, not brevity – or at least 
that's what they *should* be apologizing for. But that's also true of most 
e-mails composed at a proper keyboard as well.

 But there is more than an iota of difference between Sent from my phone and 
 Sent from my iPhone.  The latter strikes me as bragging, or even 
 proselytizing.  It 

And can get you into hot water, as a friend of mine discovered when he got an 
enraged phone call (well, eventually, he's far too high up to have gotten it 
directly) from a Verizon executive who had just sent an e-mail to her 
co-workers with that particular message automatically included. Oops.

d.

[lopsa-discuss] How to interview a desktop support/junior SA person?

[Darrell Fuhriman]

Being a small company recently merged with an equally small company (ours is 
software development.. theirs is decidedly not), I find myself in the position 
of being a Senior SA and the sole full time IT person the company. We're hiring 
somone to unburden me and to support  a growing non-tech staff, so I need to 
give tech interview a person whose job is probably 75% Desktop Support (~2/3 
Mac and 1/3 Windows for about 40 users)  and 25% very Junior SA (think SAGE 
Level 1-2).  (As a bonus, this person will be working in a different city from 
me.)

Here's the problem: I am an ignoramus about desktop support and desktop support 
issues, but since I'm the least unqualified person in the company, it's my job 
to do the tech interview.

I feel confident I can assess the quality of the answers, but I'm not really 
sure what to ask. So I'm humbly looking for suggestions about how you would go 
about interviewing a person for such a position.

Thanks in advance,

Darrell


___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lopsa.org
http://lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators
 http://lopsa.org/

Re: [lopsa-tech] Event management

[Darrell Fuhriman]

 Years ago I used http://123signup.com/ and found it worked well. It
 was designed to handle huge, huge, huge conferences.  You might
 contact them to see if it has the features you need.

There's also: OpenConferenceWare: http://github.com/igal/openconferenceware


d.

___
Tech mailing list
Tech@lopsa.org
http://lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech
This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators
 http://lopsa.org/

[Geoserver-devel] [jira] Created: (GEOS-3668) typo messed up getlegendgraphic url

[Darrell Fuhriman (JIRA)]

typo messed up getlegendgraphic url
---

 Key: GEOS-3668
 URL: http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/GEOS-3668
 Project: GeoServer
  Issue Type: Bug
  Components: WMS
Affects Versions: 2.0.0
 Environment: WAR File
Reporter: Darrell Fuhriman
Assignee: Andrea Aime
Priority: Minor



When constructing the GetLegendGraphic URL, height is mis-spelled as heigth

Bug is in of geoserver/wms/responses/helpers/WMSCapsTransformer.java and was 
introduced by
changeset 13321


-- 
This message is automatically generated by JIRA.
-
If you think it was sent incorrectly contact one of the administrators: 
http://jira.codehaus.org/secure/Administrators.jspa
-
For more information on JIRA, see: http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira



--
Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day 
trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on 
what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
___
Geoserver-devel mailing list
Geoserver-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geoserver-devel

Re: leading zeroes..

[Darrell Fuhriman]

In French villages, addresses are just the name of the recipient and  
the

village (and any wider-area information). No street or house names or
numbers.


In Ghana - at least in Accra - an address might be:

First Floor, No. 231 Bari House
Flat Top Junction,
Off Achimota-Lapaz Rd.

Which seems fairly reasonable until you realize that Bari House has no  
sign naming it as such, Flat Top Junction is a name known only to  
locals, and Achimota-Lapaz Rd is several miles long.


But even that address is more detailed than most... it would be not  
uncommon to just have a landmark.


On X road, near Alliance Français

Now, that being said, AFAICT, everyone uses PO Boxes to get mail – but  
I wonder how FedEx et. al do it – and to bring it back to hate- 
software - how badly their website screws it up.  The only times I've  
had to FedEx something to Accra, it was to someone at the University,  
which is relatively painless as these things go.


d.

Re: leading zeroes..

[Darrell Fuhriman]

House numbers with leading zeros? Intriguing, I've never seen that.


We have a whole section of town (Portland, OR) with them[1]...  I  
actually pity the post office, who must inevitably deal with people  
(and software made by said people) who think that sort of thing isn't  
possible and remove them. There are also places, somewhere in rural  
Michigan, IIRC, that include letters as an integral part of the house  
number.


The people who screw this up include Google and other companies that  
produce maps and thus should know better...


d.

[1] this describes it well: 
http://zehnkatzen.blogspot.com/2005/07/geography-address-nerd-on-zero-hundred.html

Re: leading zeroes..

[Darrell Fuhriman]

Combining a few replies into one...

Benjamin Reed wrote:

My dad's house is in the county in Wisconsin and it uses  
coordinates, even.


The format is W ### S  __ Drive.


That's pretty much all of Utah (although the creation of more  
curvilinear suburban streets in recent decades messes it up somewhat).  
Typically Main St runs N-S and Center St runs E-W, and everything is  
measured from those, so 345 E 100 N, etc..


Abigail wrote:

I often get the impression such maps know the house numbers at the  
ends, and
at key intersections, and the other numbers are found by  
interpolation.


That's pretty much exactly it... although, at least in the US, it's  
not the actual house numbers that are known, just the range. There is  
no central repository of addresses, as such.  The database would look  
something like


street_name left_side_start right_side_start left_side_end  
right_side_end

21ST AVE31003101 3198  3199

Well, in proper geocoding tools[1], the street components are broken  
into smaller components. In Portland, we have quite short blocks, so  
even though the range on a street segment may run from 3100-3199, the  
last house on the block may only be 3140.


Peter da Silva wrote:

My brother once tried to explain the address numbering system in  
Japan to me, when he was living in Tokyo. I'm not sure if I ever  
understood it.




Most of Japan isn't much different than anywhere in the US or Europe  
(IIRC). Except Tokyo. Most streets in Tokyo don't have names.  
Addresses are just nested geographies. So an address like  1-2-3  
Nishi-Shinjuku, Shinjuku-Ku, Tokyo means: In Tokyo, in the Shinjuku  
Ward, in the Nishi(West)-Shinjuku section, in the 1st Chome  
(district), on the second block, the 3rd building.


Of course, where the building is in the Chome is somewhat arbitrary,  
but adjacent numbers are usually physically adjacent. The ordering of  
the buildings on the block, however, is numbered by the order in which  
the buildings were built – so practically speaking, you have to walk  
around the block until you find the building - and sometimes Chomes  
have their own names not just a number, but the nested hierarchy still  
works.


Suffice it say, pretty much every taxi in Tokyo has very detailed maps  
in their GPS unit.


Geez, when did I become such an addressing nerd...

d.
[1] Such as this one: http://github.com/darrell/tiger_geocoder  :)

Re: leading zeroes..

[Darrell Fuhriman]

=01234


Tough to do if you're coming from a CSV

d.

Re: leading zeroes..

[Darrell Fuhriman]

That is what you puts in your CSV if you wants Excel to understand  
what

you meant.


Yes, but if *I* had made the CSV, it wouldn't be a problem.  :-P  The  
hate is in not letting me define what the column is *before* I import  
it. Access, for instance, is not so presumptive (shockingly, since  
Access is so awful is so many other ways) - so I know MS knows *how*  
to do that... but then I've long said that MS seems to actively fight  
against letting the clue escape...


d.

leading zeroes..

[Darrell Fuhriman]

I got an e-mail from the Economist today, saying they were moving some  
of their online content back behind the subscriber firewall, but since  
I was a print subscriber, I just needed to go and click this link and  
enter the code they included in the email thusly:


Customer reference number: 1234567


So that's what I do. And I get this message:

Please check that 1234567 is your Customer Reference Number.
If it is incorrect please resubmit it.
Your Customer Reference Number is 8 digits. Please refer to your most  
recent copy of The Economist to see it on your mailing label beginning  
with 0 (zero).
If your Customer Reference Number does not match this format or is not  
validated please contact our subscription helpdesk.


Sure enough, I go back, add a zero and it works properly. I wonder if  
contacting their subscription help desk and telling them their  
programmers are idiots would accomplish anything.


And don't even get me started on software stripping leading zeroes  
from addresses (house numbers or zipcodes can have leading zeroes, you  
morons.)  Never, ever, load address data into excel.


d.

Re: [OpenLayers-Users] Getting featurecollection from GeoJSON?

[Darrell Fuhriman]

On Oct 2, 2009, at 14:00, Christian Schanz wrote:

 Hello,

 I need a function that returns a featurecollection which is created
 from a GeoJSON.
 So I think that I need to do something like the following:

I do this (uses prototype.js):
var vector_layer = new OpenLayers.Layer.Vector('A Layer',{
 sphericalMercator: true,
   });
new Ajax.Request(YOUR_URL_HERE, {
   onSuccess: function(response){
 route_json= new OpenLayers.Format.GeoJSON()
 vector_layer.addFeatures(route_json.read(response.responseText));
 }
   }
);


However, for some reason it's not actually displaying on the map, even  
though
map.zoomToExtent(vector_layer.getDataExtent()) zooms to where the  
layer *should* be.


 And as a second question: Should my GeoJSON generating server insert a
 mime-type at the beginning of the
 response or is this not needed?

Shouldn't be needed.

d.

___
Users mailing list
Users@openlayers.org
http://openlayers.org/mailman/listinfo/users

[Puppet Users] 0.25.x upgrade gives Parameter notify failed

[Darrell Fuhriman]

In testing the move to 0.25 (tried with both 0.25.0 and 0.25.1rc1),  
I'm now getting the following error, seemingly everywhere that notify/ 
require is used:

For example:

err: Could not run Puppet configuration client: Parameter notify  
failed: No title provided and title '{title=smb,  
type=Service, builtin_type=nil}' is not a valid resource  
reference

or

err: Could not run Puppet configuration client: Parameter require  
failed: No title provided and title '{title=/var/tmp/gwc,  
type=File, builtin_type=nil}' is not a valid resource reference

There's nothing particularly interesting about the manifests that I  
can see.

Any ideas?


class samba::server {
 case $operatingsystem {
 centos: {
 $sambadir = '/etc/samba'
 package { 'samba':
 ensure = installed,
 }
 service { 'smb':
 ensure = running,
 hasrestart = true,
 hasstatus = true,
 enable = true
 }
 }
 }

 remotefile { ${sambadir}/smb.conf:
 source = 'samba/smb.conf',
 mode = 0444,
 notify = Service[smb],
 }
}
---
class geoserver::server {
   file {'/var/lib/geoserver':
 ensure = directory,
 mode = 0775,
 owner = tomcat,
 group = tomcat
   }

   file {'/var/lib/geoserver/gwc-conf':
 ensure = directory,
 mode = 0775,
 owner = tomcat,
 group = tomcat,
 require = File['/var/lib/geoserver'],
   }

   # cache location
   file {'/var/lib/geoserver/gwc':
 ensure = '/var/tmp/gwc',
 require = [File['/var/tmp/gwc'],File['/var/lib/geoserver']],
   }
   file {'/var/tmp/gwc':
 ensure = directory,
 mode = 0775,
 owner = tomcat,
 group = tomcat
   }
}



--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
Puppet Users group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[Puppet Users] Re: 0.25.x upgrade gives Parameter notify failed

[Darrell Fuhriman]

On Sep 29, 2009, at 10:25, Darrell Fuhriman wrote:

 In testing the move to 0.25 (tried with both 0.25.0 and 0.25.1rc1),  
 I'm now getting the following error, seemingly everywhere that  
 notify/require is used:

As an additional piece of info, 0.24.8 client continue to function as  
normal, even though the server is 0.25.1rc1

really scratching my head now..

d.


--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
Puppet Users group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

[Puppet Users] Re: 0.25.x upgrade gives Parameter notify failed

[Darrell Fuhriman]

 Is it that you're using Service[smb] rather than Service['smb'] ?

I thought of that, but that doesn't seem to matter - the other example  
I give uses single quotes everywhere, and other failures are similar.

d.


--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
Puppet Users group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

Re: iTunes + iPod Shuffle

[Darrell Fuhriman]

Then I found the magic tickbox. If you click on the iPod and then  
click the 'settings' tab, there's a 'Convert higher bit rate songs  
to 128 kbps AAC' option. My music is now copying.


Just to add hate, that option is only arbitrarily available - some  
models you can have it (such as the shuffle and my old Motorola SLVR),  
and some you can't - seeming everything else.  I would love to be able  
to check that box for my iPhone, but I can't. I have most of my music  
in lossless format, so I have to choose between manually converting,  
then copying, then deleting or sucking up all the space on my iPhone.



d.

[Puppet-dev] Re: Managing switches, routers and other embedded devices

[Darrell Fuhriman]

 particular cisco switches and routers.  Since I don't know of any  
 way to run the puppet client on a switch or router I have started  
 building and intermediary daemon which would receive configuration  
 files from puppet and then push those configurations out to the  
 devices and retain any fluctuating data in the router's  
 configuration(like time modifications).

I take advantage of the fact that you can tell the routers/switches  
via SNMP to reload.

   remotefile { '/tftpboot/router-confg':
 source = 'routers/router-confg',
 mode = 0444,
 notify = Exec[router-load-config],
 }
 exec { 'router-load-config':
 refreshonly = true,
 command = '/usr/bin/snmpset  -t60 -v 1 -c private  
router.example.com  .1.3.6.1.4.1.9.2.1.53.192.168.0.14 s router-confg',
 logoutput = on_failure,
 notify = Exec[router-save-config],
 }
 exec { 'router-save-config':
 refreshonly = true,
 command = '/usr/bin/snmpset  -t60 -v 1 -c private  
router.example.com .1.3.6.1.4.1.9.2.1.54.0 i 1',
 logoutput = on_failure,
 }


--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
Puppet Developers group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-dev@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
puppet-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-dev?hl=en
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---

Re: OO has it too (was: Excel.)

[Darrell Fuhriman]

OO improves, but up until today my more complicated graphs never came
out as expected in OO



Ooo... for real graph pain, try Numbers. Very limited graphing  
options, and actually creating a graph causes the program to use all  
of your CPU for... well.. long enough that you say fuck it and go do  
it in Excel anyway.


Darrell

Re: Thanks a lot, Sun

[Darrell Fuhriman]

Our entire infrastructure as a society has moved to digital storage,  
and

yet we don't have backups that would last for more than a few decades.



I seem to recall a few years ago seeing a documentary that showed how  
the Library of Congress records all their audio recordings onto vinyl.  
IIRC, they were shown copying a Nine Inch Nails album onto 78RPM  
vinyl. The volume of discs that implies is staggering...


Of course, they probably don't do that anymore -- probably because  
Congress ordered them to be more efficient or something and cut  
funding...


Darrell

perl and line endings...

[Darrell Fuhriman]

I know, hating perl -- fish in a barrel. I've been doing a lot more  
stuff in ruby lately, but I still like perl for a few things.  In this  
case, I had a file which had some spurious carriage returns, which I  
needed to remove so postgres wouldn't complain about them. As it  
happens, the carriage returns are also followed by a newline.


This should be a quick one liner:

perl -i.bak -ne 's/\r\n//;print' filename

So I run it, and now I have a file with no line endings, carriage  
return or otherwise.


That's strange. So I look at it with good old 'od -c' -- sure enough,  
no other carriage returns than the ones I'm trying to remove,  
everything else is terminated only with newlines.


So:

perl -i.bak -ne 's/\r{1}\n{1}//;print' filename

And that works. I hate software that tries to be too clever,  
especially in ways where the clever answer is only likely to be right  
at best a plurality of the time.


ARRRG

d.