[Aptitude-devel] Bug#819943: really should add an unforbid-version command

[積丹尼 Dan Jacobson]

> "MAFM" == Manuel A Fernandez Montecelo  
> writes:

MAFM> spend more time on re-reading the whole 3 paragraphs of documentation of
MAFM> this feature and see how they make sense.

Yes but most people take a quick look at the part of man pages they need
to check. Anyways as a long time reader of Risks Digest...

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[Aptitude-devel] Bug#819943: really should add an unforbid-version command

[Manuel A. Fernandez Montecelo]

Control: tags -1 + wontfix
Control: close -1


2016-04-06 01:07 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson:

I see. Please add the @()@:

  To revert the action, "aptitude install " will remove the
  ban. To remove the forbidden version without installing the
  candidate version, the current @(installed, not candidate)@
  version should be appended: "install =".

else people will think you mean Debian's current version, not my
computer's current version. Thanks.



2016-04-07 11:18 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson:

reopen 819943
retitle say "currently installed version" else means "Debian's current version"
thanks

How about:

To revert the action, "aptitude install " will remove the ban.
To remove the forbidden version setting without installing the candidate
version, the currently installed version should be appended: "install
=".



Given that the terms "current" and "candidate" related to versions of
packages are core concepts of apt and aptitude and are referred as such
everywhere in the interfaces and documentation, and that you've been
using them for many years, I would have hoped that you'd get
familiarised with them by now.

Besides, these are the paragraphs that you want to change:

 "By default, aptitude will select the forbidden version to be the one
 which the package would normally be upgraded (the candidate
 version). This may be overridden by appending “=” to the
 package name: for instance, “aptitude forbid-version
 vim=1.2.3.broken-4”.

 To revert the action, “aptitude install ” will remove the
 ban. To remove the forbidden version without installing the candidate
 version, the current version should be appended: “install
 =”."

Look at the explanation of "(the candidate version)" in the first
paragraph, and the contrast beteween "candidate" and "current" of the
second one.

With the context, it's pretty clear that "current" can only possibly be
the currently installed version of the package.  Adding "installed", as
you suggest in the latest spin to this bug report, is not going to make
it any clearer when reading the description of "forbid-version" as a
whole.

Instead of highlighting the fact of "current" being ambigous when you
remove the context, as you do in the latest messages, perhaps you should
spend more time on re-reading the whole 3 paragraphs of documentation of
this feature and see how they make sense.


PS: I already asked you to making maintainers spend so much time on
   petty bugs which seem to be only important or documentation
   unintelligible to you.  In particular, please stop reopening when I
   already made clear that I will not make any change related to this.


Cheers.
--
Manuel A. Fernandez Montecelo 

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[Aptitude-devel] Bug#819943: really should add an unforbid-version command

[積丹尼 Dan Jacobson]

I see. Please add the @()@:

   To revert the action, "aptitude install " will remove the
   ban. To remove the forbidden version without installing the
   candidate version, the current @(installed, not candidate)@
   version should be appended: "install =".

else people will think you mean Debian's current version, not my
computer's current version. Thanks.

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[Aptitude-devel] Bug#819943: really should add an unforbid-version command

[Manuel A. Fernandez Montecelo]

2016-04-05 04:09 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson:

So indeed in the man page

  To remove the forbidden version without installing the
  candidate version, the current version should be appended: "install
  =".


is utterly totally wrong. Please remove it.



 # aptitude search --disable-columns -F '%c%a%M %p %v %V' debian-keyring
 i  debian-keyring 2016.01.20 2016.03.22

 # aptitude forbid-version debian-keyring=2016.03.22
 No packages will be installed, upgraded, or removed.
 0 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 185 not upgraded.
 Need to get 0 B of archives. After unpacking 0 B will be used.

 # aptitude search --disable-columns -F '%c%a%M %p %v %V' debian-keyring
 iF debian-keyring 2016.01.20 2016.03.22

 # aptitude install debian-keyring=2016.01.20
 debian-keyring is already installed at the requested version (2016.01.20)
 debian-keyring is already installed at the requested version (2016.01.20)
 No packages will be installed, upgraded, or removed.
 0 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 184 not upgraded.
 Need to get 0 B of archives. After unpacking 0 B will be used.
 Current status: 185 (+1) upgradable.

 # aptitude search --disable-columns -F '%c%a%M %p %v %V' debian-keyring
 i  debian-keyring 2016.01.20 2016.03.22

Q.E.D.

I.e., works as intended and documented.



set debian-reference-en
aptitude forbid-version $@
aptitude search $@ #shows F
aptitude install $@=2.59 # abort with n, we don't want to install it.
aptitude search $@ #still F


Exactly, because by saying "n" you didn't complete the action to "remove
the forbid on that version".

Installing a version that it's already installed is harmless, so you
don't need to say no.

So again it works as expected and documented.  You wouldn't want the
state modified if you reply "no" to a question to modify the state, that
would be a much more serious bug.



Please change it to

  Currently there is no way to remove the forbidden version without 
installing the
  candidate version.

Or better

  Currently there is no way to remove the forbidden version NOTATION 
without installing the
  candidate version.


Nope.


Also, more in general, it would be useful if you stop reporting
duplicate bugs reported only weeks ago (often by you, e.g. 773023 and
804103) or looking for unexisting problems, then discussing to death and
looking for further things to modify in the same bug report so they can
never be closed.

That keeps maintainers wasting time chasing and handling bug reports
rather than working on more important problems, and wasting time
repeating again and again the reasons why they don't want to change
things that you suggest.

If the reason why you don't try to avoid duplicate bugs is
"but... but... there are too many!", consider whether your actions
submitting dozens of inane bugs or duplicates to aptitude without
searching for them is contributing to piling lots of bugs that then are
difficult to triage and search; or if they are of any benefit to the
advancement of aptitude as a whole to deal with these inane and
duplicate reports rather than working on more important issues.


Cheers.
--
Manuel A. Fernandez Montecelo 

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[Aptitude-devel] Bug#819943: really should add an unforbid-version command

[積丹尼 Dan Jacobson]

So indeed in the man page

   To remove the forbidden version without installing the
   candidate version, the current version should be appended: "install
   =".


is utterly totally wrong. Please remove it.

set debian-reference-en
aptitude forbid-version $@
aptitude search $@ #shows F
aptitude install $@=2.59 # abort with n, we don't want to install it.
aptitude search $@ #still F

Note I use Aptitude::CmdLine::Always-Prompt "true";

Please change it to

   Currently there is no way to remove the forbidden version without 
installing the
   candidate version.

Or better

   Currently there is no way to remove the forbidden version NOTATION 
without installing the
   candidate version.

Yes I know about hold.

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[Aptitude-devel] Bug#819943: really should add an unforbid-version command

[積丹尼 Dan Jacobson]

Package: aptitude
Version: 0.7.8-1

Today I will inspect the how hard it is to just simple reverse the action of
# aptitude forbid-version somepackage
so we are back to the state before we did it.

The man page says

   To revert the action, "aptitude install " will remove the
   ban. To remove the forbidden version without installing the
   candidate version, the current version should be appended: "install
   =".

Well I think you really should an unforbid-version command.

With no = then it should clear the forbidden version of that package(s).

Also the man page should say if only one version can be forbidden or
more.

Also one thinks I could just use forbid-version=0 to clear it, but that
is not a current version of that package.

And
# aptitude forbid-version package1 package2 package3 ... package20
will require an enormous amount of work to reverse, digging up each
version number...

OK, let's try
# aptitude install xserver-xorg-video-cirrus=1:1.5.3-1+b1

We will very likely encounter some
"The following actions will resolve these dependencies:

  Remove the following packages:"
questions which we will very probably answer "n", never reaching the
point where supposedly the forbid-version will be erased without
installing the package before quitting!

And, when you think about it
# aptitude install xserver-xorg-video-cirrus=
means the same as
# aptitude install xserver-xorg-video-cirrus
so if one didn't want to install the package one would answer "n" when
asked so never reaching the step where ... anyway one big no-op and the
forbid-version stays.

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