Re: [Ayatana] Fwd: Serious issues
Regarding the Launcher getting out of the way: I have resorted to completely turning off edge-reveal, which means I can't access the Launcher with mouse alone. I changed the F1 key to show the Launcher when pressed (default is Ctrl+F1 if memory serves me). So if I want to use the Launcher I HAVE to either press F1 or Super in order to reveal it. I just got sick of the Launcher always revealing when I didn't want it to. I found that I often (unconsciously) place my cursor along the left edge of the screen to get it out of the way when reading stuff on the screen. From: gespert...@gmail.com Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 19:54:09 -0300 To: isan...@gmail.com CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Ayatana] Fwd: Serious issues Last week I conducted a workshop on libre graphics tools in an important meeting here in Argentina. The attendees were people who don't use graphics programs regularly (and most of them don't use gnu/linux at all). We had Ubuntu 11.10 with Unity in the classroom's computers. Unity proved to be a negative experience for most of them. The ugliest experience was for people with 17 CRT monitors (some computers had them), where the global menu wasn't wide enough to display the menus. Launcher popping up everytime they wanted to use the main toolbox (GIMP and Inkscape) was another important issue. They also experienced problems with focus of applications. Sometimes GIMP lost focus and using the menu or switching apps with launcher required to make an extra click on GIMP's window. They were regular people using applications that are available in Ubuntu's software centre. They weren't a minority who needs to be productive with graphic design (as I do). Every single person trying to adjust a birthday photo with GIMP or trying to create a christmas card for their relatives with Inkscape will bump with these issues. What's the next excuse? That GIMP and Inkscape are broken for Unity and their developers should work something that wasn't an issue until Unity? Sorry if this seems like I'm trolling, but It's pretty frustrating to get always the same reply when somebody points out a real issue: unity works for the majority. If you can't use it, then you're part of a minority that should use anything else. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Fwd: Serious issues
I think dash should open in a separate dedicated window. I don't see the reason, when dash is called, why the top panel and the left launcher have to have the visual effect as it has now. I absolutely agree with your email. Launcher keep getting in the way even when it is not needed. To develop any consistent system one need to have, non contradicting, independent set of foundations. What I mean here, that first think canonical need to do is to make the foundations clear that it wants to built the unity on. If unity has to have launcher on the left then there should be well thought reasons for it. Because foundations has to be laid down very carefully as they are not often changeable. So, If there are enough reason to set that the launcher has to be on left a founding brick, we can proceed to think about a way to avoid it revelation unnecessarily. If we need to make Ubuntu popular, we need to pay attention to every tiny detail. Compromising and coming up crazy solutions of the problems is not going to help. We need to cross check our set foundations again and again. A consistent set of foundations is necessary for having a consistent system. For example, for mathematics to stand up as such a consistent system required a axiomatic set up as its foundations. I tried to think of ways to get rid of the problems that we face in unity but it becomes difficult for me as It is not clear to me, what the foundations are. On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 15:55, nick rundy nru...@hotmail.com wrote: Regarding the Launcher getting out of the way: I have resorted to completely turning off edge-reveal, which means I can't access the Launcher with mouse alone. I changed the F1 key to show the Launcher when pressed (default is Ctrl+F1 if memory serves me). So if I want to use the Launcher I HAVE to either press F1 or Super in order to reveal it. I just got sick of the Launcher always revealing when I didn't want it to. I found that I often (unconsciously) place my cursor along the left edge of the screen to get it out of the way when reading stuff on the screen. -- From: gespert...@gmail.com Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 19:54:09 -0300 To: isan...@gmail.com CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Ayatana] Fwd: Serious issues Last week I conducted a workshop on libre graphics tools in an important meeting here in Argentina. The attendees were people who don't use graphics programs regularly (and most of them don't use gnu/linux at all). We had Ubuntu 11.10 with Unity in the classroom's computers. Unity proved to be a negative experience for most of them. The ugliest experience was for people with 17 CRT monitors (some computers had them), where the global menu wasn't wide enough to display the menus. Launcher popping up everytime they wanted to use the main toolbox (GIMP and Inkscape) was another important issue. They also experienced problems with focus of applications. Sometimes GIMP lost focus and using the menu or switching apps with launcher required to make an extra click on GIMP's window. They were regular people using applications that are available in Ubuntu's software centre. They weren't a minority who needs to be productive with graphic design (as I do). Every single person trying to adjust a birthday photo with GIMP or trying to create a christmas card for their relatives with Inkscape will bump with these issues. What's the next excuse? That GIMP and Inkscape are broken for Unity and their developers should work something that wasn't an issue until Unity? Sorry if this seems like I'm trolling, but It's pretty frustrating to get always the same reply when somebody points out a real issue: unity works for the majority. If you can't use it, then you're part of a minority that should use anything else. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.netUnsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- सुनील राणा Unselfishness is more paying only people have not the patience to practice it. 'I love you' is a wrong sentence as where, there exist 'I' and 'you' love can not. Love is an attribute of the absolute. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https
Re: [Ayatana] Fwd: Serious issues
On 11/06/2011 10:11 PM, Remco wrote: For your use case the always-visible setting is probably the best. In graphics applications, the canvas area can never be large enough. There tend to be panels and bars for the huge number of tools and option, so there really is no space for a permanent Launcher. The Launcher also happens to be very colorful and busy-looking, making it a distraction that becomes especially annoying if you work on and have to judge graphics. The move the screen to the right behavior might be an acceptable solution, too. That would mean that the tool icon you aimed at moves away from the pointer. It would save you the time it takes to move the pointer back to the right to make the Launcher disappear, to then carefully go back left again to get to the icon without touching the edge. But this at the cost of a likely disorienting shift of almost the entire screen, while still not being able to just throw the mouse to hit an icon in minimum time. It really does come down to that the Launcher and often used target areas in application windows should not share a screen edge. -- Thorsten Wilms thorwil's design for free software: http://thorwil.wordpress.com/ ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Fwd: Serious issues
No. It comes down to meaning this group of users should set a different unhide behavior than the default. You can it such that the launcher will only unhide when you hit the corner, which is an acceptable solution for this use case. Ian Santopietro Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver. ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup? op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 Sent from my Android phone. Please excuse any errors or brevity. On Nov 7, 2011 1:16 AM, Thorsten Wilms t...@freenet.de wrote: On 11/06/2011 10:11 PM, Remco wrote: For your use case the always-visible setting is probably the best. In graphics applications, the canvas area can never be large enough. There tend to be panels and bars for the huge number of tools and option, so there really is no space for a permanent Launcher. The Launcher also happens to be very colorful and busy-looking, making it a distraction that becomes especially annoying if you work on and have to judge graphics. The move the screen to the right behavior might be an acceptable solution, too. That would mean that the tool icon you aimed at moves away from the pointer. It would save you the time it takes to move the pointer back to the right to make the Launcher disappear, to then carefully go back left again to get to the icon without touching the edge. But this at the cost of a likely disorienting shift of almost the entire screen, while still not being able to just throw the mouse to hit an icon in minimum time. It really does come down to that the Launcher and often used target areas in application windows should not share a screen edge. -- Thorsten Wilms thorwil's design for free software: http://thorwil.wordpress.com/ __**_ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/**ListHelphttps://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Fwd: Serious issues
On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 6:38 AM, Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com wrote: No. It comes down to meaning this group of users should set a different unhide behavior than the default. You can it such that the launcher will only unhide when you hit the corner, which is an acceptable solution for this use case. No offense, but this group?... where is the Unity in that? As Thorsten brought up, settings are handled via different apps... where is the Unity in that? Shouldn't a more sensible default or more easily accessible configuration be the goal? You know, a more unified solution. Since you said what I should do, I'll tell you what you should do. Please shorten your rather excessive 11 line signature from your mobile device (or add -- above your signature). You should do that as a courtesy to other people who are reading on mobile devices. Cheers, Josh ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Fwd: Serious issues
I was pointing out that this configuration is not suitable for every user, the Inkscape users acting as a prime example. It is nearly impossible to find a default configuration that will work well for everybody, and the current default setup works best for a majority of users. I'm not opposed to making configuration more accessible, but changing the default to make a minority of users happy is not an acceptable solution for anyone. I mentioned this because I felt these users had a valid complaint, and wanted to share a workaround for this complaint that they can do now. I apologize for trying to be helpful. On 11/07/2011 09:23 AM, Josh Andler wrote: On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 6:38 AM, Ian Santopietroisan...@gmail.com wrote: No. It comes down to meaning this group of users should set a different unhide behavior than the default. You can it such that the launcher will only unhide when you hit the corner, which is an acceptable solution for this use case. No offense, but this group?... where is the Unity in that? As Thorsten brought up, settings are handled via different apps... where is the Unity in that? Shouldn't a more sensible default or more easily accessible configuration be the goal? You know, a more unified solution. Since you said what I should do, I'll tell you what you should do. Please shorten your rather excessive 11 line signature from your mobile device (or add -- above your signature). You should do that as a courtesy to other people who are reading on mobile devices. Cheers, Josh -- -- Ian Santopietro Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver. ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup? op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Fwd: Serious issues
Last week I conducted a workshop on libre graphics tools in an important meeting here in Argentina. The attendees were people who don't use graphics programs regularly (and most of them don't use gnu/linux at all). We had Ubuntu 11.10 with Unity in the classroom's computers. Unity proved to be a negative experience for most of them. The ugliest experience was for people with 17 CRT monitors (some computers had them), where the global menu wasn't wide enough to display the menus. Launcher popping up everytime they wanted to use the main toolbox (GIMP and Inkscape) was another important issue. They also experienced problems with focus of applications. Sometimes GIMP lost focus and using the menu or switching apps with launcher required to make an extra click on GIMP's window. They were regular people using applications that are available in Ubuntu's software centre. They weren't a minority who needs to be productive with graphic design (as I do). Every single person trying to adjust a birthday photo with GIMP or trying to create a christmas card for their relatives with Inkscape will bump with these issues. What's the next excuse? That GIMP and Inkscape are broken for Unity and their developers should work something that wasn't an issue until Unity? Sorry if this seems like I'm trolling, but It's pretty frustrating to get always the same reply when somebody points out a real issue: unity works for the majority. If you can't use it, then you're part of a minority that should use anything else. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Fwd: Serious issues
On Mon 07 Nov 2011 03:54:09 PM MST, gespert...@gmail.com wrote: Last week I conducted a workshop on libre graphics tools in an important meeting here in Argentina. The attendees were people who don't use graphics programs regularly (and most of them don't use gnu/linux at all). We had Ubuntu 11.10 with Unity in the classroom's computers. Unity proved to be a negative experience for most of them. The ugliest experience was for people with 17 CRT monitors (some computers had them), where the global menu wasn't wide enough to display the menus. Launcher popping up everytime they wanted to use the main toolbox (GIMP and Inkscape) was another important issue. They also experienced problems with focus of applications. Sometimes GIMP lost focus and using the menu or switching apps with launcher required to make an extra click on GIMP's window. They were regular people using applications that are available in Ubuntu's software centre. They weren't a minority who needs to be productive with graphic design (as I do). Every single person trying to adjust a birthday photo with GIMP or trying to create a christmas card for their relatives with Inkscape will bump with these issues. What's the next excuse? That GIMP and Inkscape are broken for Unity and their developers should work something that wasn't an issue until Unity? Sorry if this seems like I'm trolling, but It's pretty frustrating to get always the same reply when somebody points out a real issue: unity works for the majority. If you can't use it, then you're part of a minority that should use anything else. I'm sorry, but I've simply never hit this issue outside of a web browser. I do some work in Inkscape, and a lot of pretty heavy work in Gimp. I haven't had any issues with the launcher in either of those applications. -- Ian Santopietro Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Fwd: Serious issues
I agree. people like that is pretty and that is great, they become curious. and for browsing the web is fine. but for getting anything done it can be harder and sadly many become frustrated and lose the interest. if ubuntu can fix the bugs for precise it will be awesome. the global needs *lots of work*: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/682788 and the launcher also needs more work too to really get out of the way. gnome-shell is worse at the moment, but is getting Tons of extensions so you can customize it exactly how you want or need it. Unity cant stay behind... From: gespert...@gmail.com Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 19:54:09 -0300 To: isan...@gmail.com CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Ayatana] Fwd: Serious issues Last week I conducted a workshop on libre graphics tools in an important meeting here in Argentina. The attendees were people who don't use graphics programs regularly (and most of them don't use gnu/linux at all). We had Ubuntu 11.10 with Unity in the classroom's computers. Unity proved to be a negative experience for most of them. The ugliest experience was for people with 17 CRT monitors (some computers had them), where the global menu wasn't wide enough to display the menus. Launcher popping up everytime they wanted to use the main toolbox (GIMP and Inkscape) was another important issue. They also experienced problems with focus of applications. Sometimes GIMP lost focus and using the menu or switching apps with launcher required to make an extra click on GIMP's window. They were regular people using applications that are available in Ubuntu's software centre. They weren't a minority who needs to be productive with graphic design (as I do). Every single person trying to adjust a birthday photo with GIMP or trying to create a christmas card for their relatives with Inkscape will bump with these issues. What's the next excuse? That GIMP and Inkscape are broken for Unity and their developers should work something that wasn't an issue until Unity? Sorry if this seems like I'm trolling, but It's pretty frustrating to get always the same reply when somebody points out a real issue: unity works for the majority. If you can't use it, then you're part of a minority that should use anything else. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Fwd: Serious issues
i use gimp fairly often and i've run into the focus problem... if one of gimps windows that isn't the image window that normally had the app menu on it is in focus then the gimp app menu won't show up. it acts as if the only gimp window is the one that would normally hold the app menu. luckily for me that even though i use gimp fairly often i don't use it for much other than small edits at the end of a digital painting workflow. gimp does have a lot of menus. i could understand how a smaller monitor without a higher resolution would not have enough space for everything in the global menu when the panel indicators are also using the same space. i could also understand how on those monitors that it would get a bit crowded when trying to maximize your image editing space and since the tools box is usually kept on the left side it would be easy to end up with a box of a lot of small tool buttons right along the left edge of the screen which would cause the same problems as the buttons of web browsers being right there by the left edge of the screen. inkscape would have the same launcher interference problems if maximized because it's got tools along the left side. the 17 inch monitors seem to be a bad fit but there should probably be something done about that as there are people and places using older monitors that don't have larger resolutions. i was still using a 19 CRT until this past august. until there's an actual fix there's an unofficial compiz plugin to let you move your launcher to the bottom. it makes the dash look a bit busted if it isn't maximized but if you'd rather have it at the bottom as a work around http://www.webupd8.org/2011/10/how-to-move-unity-launcher-to-bottom-of.html might be worth checking out. -- Josh Strawbridge ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Fwd: Serious issues
On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 22:00, Josh Andler scis...@gmail.com wrote: Ink scape! +10 As an inkscape developer who is bug testing all the time, I have to say that as frustrating it is for me, I can't imagine how frustrating it is for users trying to be productive (not that bug testing isn't being productive). I also hit this issue in GIMP and a handful of other apps. Having Unity block me on a regular basis is something that makes me consider switching desktop environments... I honestly like Unity for the most part but this is definitely a big source of aggravation for me. If the behavior isn't going to be changed, please make the location of the dock configurable. For your use case the always-visible setting is probably the best. I've used it from the start. As clever as the hiding behavior may be, it still overlaps with applications. The move the screen to the right behavior might be an acceptable solution, too. -- Remco ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Fwd: Serious issues
Ink scape! +10 As an inkscape developer who is bug testing all the time, I have to say that as frustrating it is for me, I can't imagine how frustrating it is for users trying to be productive (not that bug testing isn't being productive). I also hit this issue in GIMP and a handful of other apps. Having Unity block me on a regular basis is something that makes me consider switching desktop environments... I honestly like Unity for the most part but this is definitely a big source of aggravation for me. If the behavior isn't going to be changed, please make the location of the dock configurable. Cheers, Josh ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
