Re: Proof of Prophet
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
All of your texts come from Promulgation, which is pilgrim's notes.
In some cases there are Persian notes of the same texts which are
authentic: if you track these down I think it likely that you will
find there is a translation problem: ummah and mellat refer to a
religious community, not a nation-state.
I think there is an implicit condition in this criteria of
prophethood: the Manifestation unites and benefits those who accept
him. Obviously he does not unite those who reject him! Compare to
Hitler (who gets an unreasonable amount of quotage in internet
traffic !): he led those who accepted him to ruin
~sen
...
I was reading parts of 'Abdu'l-Baha's talks regarding what proves
whether a person is a Prophet/Manifestation of God. It looks to me
that if the same criteria are applied to the Bab and Baha'u'llah
they wouldn't classify as Manifestations of God.
Consider the passages below:
It is evident that the divine Prophets
have appeared in the world to establish love and agreement among
mankind. They
have been the Shepherds and not the wolves. The Shepherd comes forth
to gather
and lead his flock and not to disperse them by creating strife.
Every divine
Shepherd has assembled a flock which had formerly been scattered.
Among the
Shepherds was Moses. At a time when the tribes of Israel were
wandering and
dispersed, He assembled, united and educated them to higher degrees
of capacity
and progress until they passed out of the wilderness of discipline
into the
holy land of possession. He transformed their degradation into
glory, changed
their poverty into wealth and replaced their vices by virtues until
they rose
to such a zenith that the splendor of the sovereignty of Solomon was
made
possible, and the fame of their civilization extended to the East
and the West.
It is evident, therefore, that Moses was a divine Shepherd, for He
gathered the
tribes of Israel
together and united them in the power and strength of a great
nationhood.
('Abdu'l-Bahá, Promulgation,
pp.116-17)
...religion must be conducive to love and
unity among mankind; for if it be the cause of enmity and strife,
the absence
of religion is preferable. When Moses appeared, the tribes of Israel
were in
a state of disunion as captives of the Pharaohs. Moses gathered them
together,
and the divine law established fellowship among them. They became as
one
people, united, consolidated, after which they were rescued from
bondage. They
passed into the promised land, advanced in all degrees, developed
sciences and
arts, progressed in material affairs, increased in divine or
spiritual
civilization until their nation rose to its zenith in the
sovereignty of
Solomon. It is evident, therefore, that religion is the cause of
unity,
fellowship and progress among mankind. ('Abdu'l-Bahá, Promulgation,
p. 128)
The work of the shepherd is to bring
together the scattered sheep. If he disperses the united flock, he
is not the
shepherd. As the Prophets fulfilled Their mission in this respect,
They are the
true Shepherds. When Moses appeared, the Israelitish people were
disorganized.
Enmity and discord increased their disunion. With divine power He
assembled and
united this scattered flock, placed within their hearts the pearl of
love,
freed them from captivity and led them out of Egypt
into the Holy Land. They made wonderful
progress in sciences and arts. Bonds of social and national strength
cemented
them. Their progress in human virtues was so rapid and wonderful
that they rose
to the zenith of the Solomonic sovereignty. Could it be said that
Moses was not
a real Shepherd and that He did not gather these scattered people
together?
('Abdu'l-Bahá, Promulgation p. 162)
According
to the argumentation here, a Prophet must unite the people and bring
prosperity
to the nation. That Moses did so is taken as a proof of His
Prophethood. Applying this to the Bab and Baha'u'llah, how do they
classify as Prophets? Neither united the nation or increased its
material prosperity, quite the opposite. Iran is in a terrible
state long after both died. There are early Prophets mentioned in
the Iqan who Baha'u'llah says no one listened to. Since they
achieved nothing, how are they Prophets? If the religion of God is
supposed to cause unity and if it brings enmity and strife no
religion is preferable then what was the point of the Baha'i
Revelation? So that centuries later unity might come about?
'Abdu'l-Baha talks only of unity created by the Manifestation at the
time. Moses is said to have brought unity to a nation during His
lifetime, whereas Iran got worse during the lifetimes of the Bab and
Baha'u'llah.
Baha'i belief is that the Mosaic Revelation prepared people for
Jesus. But applying the below passage to Jesus seems to disqualify
Him as a Manifestation:
Among the holy, divine Manifestations of
God
Proof of Prophet
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
I was reading parts of 'Abdu'l-Baha's talks regarding what proves whether a
person is a Prophet/Manifestation of God. It looks to me that if the same
criteria are applied to the Bab and Baha'u'llah they wouldn't classify as
Manifestations of God.
Consider the passages below:
It is evident that the divine Prophets
have appeared in the world to establish love and agreement among mankind. They
have been the Shepherds and not the wolves. The Shepherd comes forth to gather
and lead his flock and not to disperse them by creating strife. Every divine
Shepherd has assembled a flock which had formerly been scattered. Among the
Shepherds was Moses. At a time when the tribes of Israel were wandering and
dispersed, He assembled, united and educated them to higher degrees of capacity
and progress until they passed out of the wilderness of discipline into the
holy land of possession. He transformed their degradation into glory, changed
their poverty into wealth and replaced their vices by virtues until they rose
to such a zenith that the splendor of the sovereignty of Solomon was made
possible, and the fame of their civilization extended to the East and the West.
It is evident, therefore, that Moses was a divine Shepherd, for He gathered the
tribes of Israel
together and united them in the power and strength of a great nationhood.
('Abdu'l-Bahá, Promulgation,
pp.116-17)
...religion must be conducive to love and
unity among mankind; for if it be the cause of enmity and strife, the absence
of religion is preferable. When Moses appeared, the tribes of Israel were in
a state of disunion as captives of the Pharaohs. Moses gathered them together,
and the divine law established fellowship among them. They became as one
people, united, consolidated, after which they were rescued from bondage. They
passed into the promised land, advanced in all degrees, developed sciences and
arts, progressed in material affairs, increased in divine or spiritual
civilization until their nation rose to its zenith in the sovereignty of
Solomon. It is evident, therefore, that religion is the cause of unity,
fellowship and progress among mankind. ('Abdu'l-Bahá, Promulgation, p. 128)
The work of the shepherd is to bring
together the scattered sheep. If he disperses the united flock, he is not the
shepherd. As the Prophets fulfilled Their mission in this respect, They are the
true Shepherds. When Moses appeared, the Israelitish people were disorganized.
Enmity and discord increased their disunion. With divine power He assembled and
united this scattered flock, placed within their hearts the pearl of love,
freed them from captivity and led them out of Egypt
into the Holy Land. They made wonderful
progress in sciences and arts. Bonds of social and national strength cemented
them. Their progress in human virtues was so rapid and wonderful that they rose
to the zenith of the Solomonic sovereignty. Could it be said that Moses was not
a real Shepherd and that He did not gather these scattered people together?
('Abdu'l-Bahá, Promulgation p. 162)
According
to the argumentation here, a Prophet must unite the people and bring prosperity
to the nation. That Moses did so is taken as a proof of His Prophethood.
Applying this to the Bab and Baha'u'llah, how do they classify as Prophets?
Neither united the nation or increased its material prosperity, quite the
opposite. Iran is in a terrible state long after both died. There are early
Prophets mentioned in the Iqan who Baha'u'llah says no one listened to. Since
they achieved nothing, how are they Prophets? If the religion of God is
supposed to cause unity and if it brings enmity and strife no religion is
preferable then what was the point of the Baha'i Revelation? So that centuries
later unity might come about? 'Abdu'l-Baha talks only of unity created by the
Manifestation at the time. Moses is said to have brought unity to a nation
during His lifetime, whereas Iran got worse during the lifetimes of the Bab and
Baha'u'llah.
Baha'i belief is that the Mosaic Revelation prepared people for Jesus. But
applying the below passage to Jesus seems to disqualify Him as a Manifestation:
Among the holy, divine Manifestations of
God was Moses. The sending of Prophets has ever been for the training of
humanity. They are the first Educators and Trainers. If Moses has developed the
body politic, there is no doubt that He was a true Teacher and Educator. This
will be proof and evidence that He was a Prophet. We shall consider how He was
sent to the children of Israel
when they were in the abyss of despair, in the lowest degree of ignorance and
heedlessness, degraded and under conditions of bondage. Moses rescued these
degraded people of Israel
from that state of bondage. He raised them from that condition of ignorance,
saved them from barbarism and led them into the Holy Land.
He educated them, endowed them with sagacious instincts, made them worthy and
honorable.
