[CODE4LIB] Fwd: [dariah-vcc1] WG: [dariah-info] [eudat-news] RDA Conference Invitation
Von: dariah-info-boun...@gwdg.de [dariah-info-boun...@gwdg.de] im Auftrag von Nagham Salman [nagham.sal...@bsc.es] Gesendet: Freitag, 18. Januar 2013 13:13 An: eudat-n...@postit.csc.fi Betreff: [dariah-info] [eudat-news] RDA Conference Invitation Dear colleagues, On behalf of Peter Wittenburg and Leif Laaksonen We are writing to invite you to attend the launch and first Plenary of the Research Data Alliance (rd-alliance.org), which will take place March 18-20, 2013 in Gothenburg, Sweden. The Research Data Alliance (RDA) is being formed as a global community-driven organization to accelerate data-driven innovation through research data sharing and exchange. Broad community engagement and targeted efforts are critical to the RDA's success and we invite you to participate actively in the RDA. Please join us for the 3 days with outstanding speakers, working sessions, active contributions, and community discussion at the RDA's launch and first Plenary. An invitation can be found on the rd-alliance.org website at http://rd-alliance.org/invitation and the link to registration is at http://rd-alliance.org/registration We look forward to your participation and hope to see you in Gothenburg! Leif Laaksonen Peter Wittenburg RDA/Europe WARNING / LEGAL TEXT: This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information which is privileged, confidential, proprietary, or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are strictly prohibited from disclosing, distributing, copying, or in any way using this message. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender and destroy and delete any copies you may have received. http://www.bsc.es/disclaimer
Re: [CODE4LIB] A gentle proposal: slim down zoia during the conference
While we're on this topic, can I also ask if it is the intention of someone to log and publicly post the channel logs? That will also tend to tamp down the more outlandish behavior. Peter -- Peter Murray Assistant Director, Technology Services Development LYRASIS peter.mur...@lyrasis.org +1 678-235-2955 1438 West Peachtree Street NW Suite 200 Atlanta, GA 30309 Toll Free: 800.999.8558 Fax: 404.892.7879 www.lyrasis.org LYRASIS: Great Libraries. Strong Communities. Innovative Answers.
Re: [CODE4LIB] Newberry Library tour
As a Newberry inmate, I've had it on my mental to-do list to look into the possibility of arranging something for C4L beyond the Thursday canned tour. Now that you've reminded me, I'd be happy to ask for you if you would like me to. I'm not sure what might be possible for seeing things behind the scenes, but I can try once more people chime in. BTW, there will also be an exhibit on display while C4L is here, of French Revolutionary pamphlets http://www.newberry.org/01282013-politics-piety-and-poison-french-pamphlets-1600-1800 Linda Ballinger On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 12:05 AM, William Denton w...@pobox.com wrote: I was in Chicago last year and went for a tour of the Newberry Library (www.newberry.org) and really enjoyed it. It's an old independent research library on Washington Square Park and it's beautiful. (If you read THE TIME TRAVELER'S WIFE [1], it's where Henry works. [2]) They have free tours on Thursdays at 3, but they request advance notice of groups. I'm happy to be in touch with them and try to arrange a Code4Lib group tour, and to wrangle the C4L people who might want to go. If there a just a few, that's no problem; if there are a lot, maybe we can arrange something special. Questions: Are any of you who are going to the conference interested in such a tour? Does that time suit? Would you be interested in going behind the scenes, if possible, and seeing their conservation room and so on? Bill [1] If you haven't read it, then it's a good one to read before visiting Chicago. [2] If you saw the movie, which is a poor substitute for the book, you didn't see the Newberry, because the movie was filmed in Toronto and two different libraries here were library doubles for it. -- William Denton Toronto, Canada http://www.miskatonic.org/
Re: [CODE4LIB] Newberry Library tour
On 18 January 2013, Linda Ballinger wrote: As a Newberry inmate, I've had it on my mental to-do list to look into the possibility of arranging something for C4L beyond the Thursday canned tour. Now that you've reminded me, I'd be happy to ask for you if you would like me to. I'm not sure what might be possible for seeing things behind the scenes, but I can try once more people chime in. That would be wonderful! Thanks. It didn't occur to me someone from the Newberry might be on the list. I think people would be especially interested in what's happening in Digital Initiatives and Conservation Services, plus learning about what C4L-type stuff is going on there. And perhaps seeing a treasure and getting to go down a floor on the caged staircase. Bill -- William Denton Toronto, Canada http://www.miskatonic.org/
Re: [CODE4LIB] A gentle proposal: slim down zoia during the conference
Bill, I realize that. That's opt-out, and anyone new to IRC is not going to know that. So I am asking for the opposite, which may not be a current feature of IRC, but that those who wish to see Zoia's replies (and who therefore know about Zoia) should opt-in. Another option is a separate channel for the conference, but that may seem new and foreign to everyone, not just to new users. kc On 1/17/13 9:50 PM, William Denton wrote: On 17 January 2013, Karen Coyle wrote: Is another possibility is for Zoia to be opt-in rather than opt-out? If you say /ignore zoia all your IRC client will ignore everything she says. You still see what other people say to her, which is a bit odd, but it really makes the channel a lot clearer. Bill -- Karen Coyle kco...@kcoyle.net http://kcoyle.net ph: 1-510-540-7596 m: 1-510-435-8234 skype: kcoylenet
[CODE4LIB] Zoia
... and BTW, if people see Zoia as a bit of a problem during the conference, doesn't that mean that Zoia is a bit of a problem all of the time? Is there a reason to be polite and inclusive during the conference but not every day? Could this have any relation to the felt need to create #libtechwomen? kc -- Karen Coyle kco...@kcoyle.net http://kcoyle.net ph: 1-510-540-7596 m: 1-510-435-8234 skype: kcoylenet
Re: [CODE4LIB] A gentle proposal: slim down zoia during the conference
Karen, I don't think there's any way we could do that. zoia is just another participant in the channel, just like you or I would be, so it's exactly like interacting with another person. And one thing that I think is *somewhat* important to note before we give zoia the bum's rush or something before the conference, it's worth pointing out that zoia (and zoia's predecessor, panizzi) predates the conference and, in fact, presented at the first one: http://www.wallandbinkley.com/quaedam/2006/02_16_panizzi-speaks.html I don't mind gagging some of the noisier plugins (or I really like the idea of a @timeout plugin that shuts people off from zoia for a specified time period), but zoia is a pretty central code4lib character. Also, we generally ritually clear the karma database at the very end of the conference, which would be weird if zoia wasn't invited. -Ross. On Jan 18, 2013, at 10:36 AM, Karen Coyle li...@kcoyle.net wrote: Bill, I realize that. That's opt-out, and anyone new to IRC is not going to know that. So I am asking for the opposite, which may not be a current feature of IRC, but that those who wish to see Zoia's replies (and who therefore know about Zoia) should opt-in. Another option is a separate channel for the conference, but that may seem new and foreign to everyone, not just to new users. kc On 1/17/13 9:50 PM, William Denton wrote: On 17 January 2013, Karen Coyle wrote: Is another possibility is for Zoia to be opt-in rather than opt-out? If you say /ignore zoia all your IRC client will ignore everything she says. You still see what other people say to her, which is a bit odd, but it really makes the channel a lot clearer. Bill -- Karen Coyle kco...@kcoyle.net http://kcoyle.net ph: 1-510-540-7596 m: 1-510-435-8234 skype: kcoylenet
Re: [CODE4LIB] A gentle proposal: slim down zoia during the conference
On 18 January 2013, Karen Coyle wrote: Bill, I realize that. That's opt-out, and anyone new to IRC is not going to know that. So I am asking for the opposite, which may not be a current feature of IRC, but that those who wish to see Zoia's replies (and who therefore know about Zoia) should opt-in. Aha, I see what you mean. I don't think there's a way to do that in IRC, but I might be wrong. Personally I'd be happy if zoia was restricted to a very minimal set of what she does now, or if most of her responses were msged and not in channel. Bill -- William Denton Toronto, Canada http://www.miskatonic.org/
Re: [CODE4LIB] A gentle proposal: slim down zoia during the conference
Just because zoia has always been there (or panizzi) doesn't mean zoia ought to be there going forward. Karen's point I think deserves consideration. If zoia is in violation of the Code of Conduct, then remedial action is warranted. I think in this case, rather then getting rid of the bot, we can just remove the offending plugins. /dev On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 10:49 AM, Ross Singer rossfsin...@gmail.com wrote: Karen, I don't think there's any way we could do that. zoia is just another participant in the channel, just like you or I would be, so it's exactly like interacting with another person. And one thing that I think is *somewhat* important to note before we give zoia the bum's rush or something before the conference, it's worth pointing out that zoia (and zoia's predecessor, panizzi) predates the conference and, in fact, presented at the first one: http://www.wallandbinkley.com/quaedam/2006/02_16_panizzi-speaks.html I don't mind gagging some of the noisier plugins (or I really like the idea of a @timeout plugin that shuts people off from zoia for a specified time period), but zoia is a pretty central code4lib character. Also, we generally ritually clear the karma database at the very end of the conference, which would be weird if zoia wasn't invited. -Ross. On Jan 18, 2013, at 10:36 AM, Karen Coyle li...@kcoyle.net wrote: Bill, I realize that. That's opt-out, and anyone new to IRC is not going to know that. So I am asking for the opposite, which may not be a current feature of IRC, but that those who wish to see Zoia's replies (and who therefore know about Zoia) should opt-in. Another option is a separate channel for the conference, but that may seem new and foreign to everyone, not just to new users. kc On 1/17/13 9:50 PM, William Denton wrote: On 17 January 2013, Karen Coyle wrote: Is another possibility is for Zoia to be opt-in rather than opt-out? If you say /ignore zoia all your IRC client will ignore everything she says. You still see what other people say to her, which is a bit odd, but it really makes the channel a lot clearer. Bill -- Karen Coyle kco...@kcoyle.net http://kcoyle.net ph: 1-510-540-7596 m: 1-510-435-8234 skype: kcoylenet -- Sent from my GMail account.
Re: [CODE4LIB] A gentle proposal: slim down zoia during the conference
On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 10:54 AM, Devon dec...@gmail.com wrote: If zoia is in violation of the Code of Conduct, then remedial action is warranted. I think in this case, rather then getting rid of the bot, we can just remove the offending plugins. +1
Re: [CODE4LIB] A gentle proposal: slim down zoia during the conference
On Jan 18, 2013, at 10:54 AM, Devon dec...@gmail.com wrote: Just because zoia has always been there (or panizzi) doesn't mean zoia ought to be there going forward. Karen's point I think deserves consideration. If zoia is in violation of the Code of Conduct, then remedial action is warranted. I think in this case, rather then getting rid of the bot, we can just remove the offending plugins. To be fair (and I haven't had my coffee, yet), this is what I meant (and I was in the middle of another email trying to explain this more). zoia is the product of nurture, not nature, so I agree. /zoia/ isn't the problem, because having a bot in an active channel with a (fairly) stable community is a useful addition. The offensive and/or annoying plugins don't serve any real purpose besides entertainment value. I would much rather cut them away (we've done it plenty of times in the past: jive, markov, etc.) then ditch the bot altogether. I guess that was what I was trying to get at. Focus on the messages rather than the messenger :) -Ross. /dev On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 10:49 AM, Ross Singer rossfsin...@gmail.com wrote: Karen, I don't think there's any way we could do that. zoia is just another participant in the channel, just like you or I would be, so it's exactly like interacting with another person. And one thing that I think is *somewhat* important to note before we give zoia the bum's rush or something before the conference, it's worth pointing out that zoia (and zoia's predecessor, panizzi) predates the conference and, in fact, presented at the first one: http://www.wallandbinkley.com/quaedam/2006/02_16_panizzi-speaks.html I don't mind gagging some of the noisier plugins (or I really like the idea of a @timeout plugin that shuts people off from zoia for a specified time period), but zoia is a pretty central code4lib character. Also, we generally ritually clear the karma database at the very end of the conference, which would be weird if zoia wasn't invited. -Ross. On Jan 18, 2013, at 10:36 AM, Karen Coyle li...@kcoyle.net wrote: Bill, I realize that. That's opt-out, and anyone new to IRC is not going to know that. So I am asking for the opposite, which may not be a current feature of IRC, but that those who wish to see Zoia's replies (and who therefore know about Zoia) should opt-in. Another option is a separate channel for the conference, but that may seem new and foreign to everyone, not just to new users. kc On 1/17/13 9:50 PM, William Denton wrote: On 17 January 2013, Karen Coyle wrote: Is another possibility is for Zoia to be opt-in rather than opt-out? If you say /ignore zoia all your IRC client will ignore everything she says. You still see what other people say to her, which is a bit odd, but it really makes the channel a lot clearer. Bill -- Karen Coyle kco...@kcoyle.net http://kcoyle.net ph: 1-510-540-7596 m: 1-510-435-8234 skype: kcoylenet -- Sent from my GMail account.
Re: [CODE4LIB] A gentle proposal: slim down zoia during the conference
On Jan 18, 2013, at 11:03 AM, Ross Singer rossfsin...@gmail.com wrote: The offensive and/or annoying plugins don't serve any real purpose besides entertainment value. I would much rather cut them away (we've done it plenty of times in the past: jive, markov, etc.) then ditch the bot altogether. s/then/than/ # coffee I need unit tests for my emails this morning, obviously. -Ross.
Re: [CODE4LIB] Zoia
On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 9:38 AM, Karen Coyle li...@kcoyle.net wrote: ... and BTW, if people see Zoia as a bit of a problem during the conference, doesn't that mean that Zoia is a bit of a problem all of the time? Is there a reason to be polite and inclusive during the conference but not every day? There's actually two different but closely related issues: 1) Plugins that generate a lot of information/responses which have been a problem as they can interrupt flow of questions/discussions during the conference. @blockparty lists what songs people are playing that have registered their irc nick scrobble. It produces a lot of lines and a couple of calls can cause people's screens to scroll-off. Not a problem with the normal traffic in the room, but when going from maybe 20/30 active participants to hundreds it can be an issue. There's probably some others like @google or @naf with a long response that could be disabled as well. @naf is a nice one for demonstrating zoia, but @marc is pretty compact and also wonderfully library-centric ;). 2) Plugins that are crude/offensive like @mf and the urban dictionary one. I think the thread kicked off with the first one, but I think it rapidly brought in the issue of the latter. I'm in agreement that the latter category probably should be just removed. The first category probably would be useful to disable during the conference but to have. Jon Gorman
Re: [CODE4LIB] A gentle proposal: slim down zoia during the conference
On Jan 18, 2013, at 10:58 AM, Kevin S. Clarke kscla...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 10:54 AM, Devon dec...@gmail.com wrote: If zoia is in violation of the Code of Conduct, then remedial action is warranted. I think in this case, rather then getting rid of the bot, we can just remove the offending plugins. +1 +1; zoia is an acquired taste. -- ELM
Re: [CODE4LIB] Zoia
Actually, I find the playing with Zoia itself offensive. As per my response to my own message. It objectifies women. Treats them as play-things. Makes me very uncomfortable. If we want to have an information bot, perhaps like the one used by W3C which takes minutes for meetings (Zakim, I believe it is), that seems reasonable. But to have a play-thing that is gendered is a really, really bad idea. In fact, to have a play-thing of any kind on the channel might not be a good idea. I know that some folks find it fun, but it is akin to the locker-room shenanigans (at least as I experience it), and it's a HUGE in-joke that makes it obvious to anyone new that they aren't in. kc On 1/18/13 8:20 AM, Jon Gorman wrote: On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 9:38 AM, Karen Coyle li...@kcoyle.net wrote: ... and BTW, if people see Zoia as a bit of a problem during the conference, doesn't that mean that Zoia is a bit of a problem all of the time? Is there a reason to be polite and inclusive during the conference but not every day? There's actually two different but closely related issues: 1) Plugins that generate a lot of information/responses which have been a problem as they can interrupt flow of questions/discussions during the conference. @blockparty lists what songs people are playing that have registered their irc nick scrobble. It produces a lot of lines and a couple of calls can cause people's screens to scroll-off. Not a problem with the normal traffic in the room, but when going from maybe 20/30 active participants to hundreds it can be an issue. There's probably some others like @google or @naf with a long response that could be disabled as well. @naf is a nice one for demonstrating zoia, but @marc is pretty compact and also wonderfully library-centric ;). 2) Plugins that are crude/offensive like @mf and the urban dictionary one. I think the thread kicked off with the first one, but I think it rapidly brought in the issue of the latter. I'm in agreement that the latter category probably should be just removed. The first category probably would be useful to disable during the conference but to have. Jon Gorman -- Karen Coyle kco...@kcoyle.net http://kcoyle.net ph: 1-510-540-7596 m: 1-510-435-8234 skype: kcoylenet
Re: [CODE4LIB] Zoia
On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 11:26 AM, Karen Coyle li...@kcoyle.net wrote: Actually, I find the playing with Zoia itself offensive. As per my response to my own message. It objectifies women. Treats them as play-things. Makes me very uncomfortable. I think you're reading too much into Zoia's gender here. As Ross said, the previous bot was named panizzi (Anthony Panizzi). The names have just been picked from famous library folks. I don't imagine anyone would have a problem finding a famous male librarian to rename the bot to, though. I don't think there is anything to read into the gender of the bot here. But to have a play-thing that is gendered is a really, really bad idea. In fact, to have a play-thing of any kind on the channel might not be a good idea. Would you object to a male name? I don't think playing with a bot is a bad thing. I've played with real people in the room in the same way. The nice thing about a bot is that you know you'll get a response (whereas rsinger might just ignore me). As I said, I think you're reading too much into the bot's gender in this case, but I can't imagine anyone would have qualms about renaming the bot to a male name. The name is pretty inconsequential; it was just meant as a tribute to famous folks in our field. Kevin
Re: [CODE4LIB] Zoia
On 13-01-18 10:26 AM, Karen Coyle li...@kcoyle.net wrote: Actually, I find the playing with Zoia itself offensive. As per my response to my own message. It objectifies women. Treats them as play-things. Makes me very uncomfortable. If we want to have an information bot, perhaps like the one used by W3C which takes minutes for meetings (Zakim, I believe it is), that seems reasonable. But to have a play-thing that is gendered is a really, really bad idea. I think you're reading too much into the zoia's (implicitly) gendered name. zoia's precursor, panizzi, was implicitly male but functioned in the same way zoia does. In fact, to have a play-thing of any kind on the channel might not be a good idea. I know that some folks find it fun, but it is akin to the locker-room shenanigans (at least as I experience it), and it's a HUGE in-joke that makes it obvious to anyone new that they aren't in. I would strongly disagree with this point. As a code4lib newbie a year ago, I found that zoia was a kind of participatory in-joke that made it *easier* for me to acclimatize to the culture of the room. I became comfortable more quickly thanks to zoia. And, as I've mentioned on IRC, I see zoia as being a manifestation of the code4lib spirit itself - a collaboratively-maintained collection of plugins by members of the community. Could the more offensive elements of zoia be reined in? Certainly. But I would find it very unfortunate to remove zoia altogether. Misty (As aLways, opinions are mine, not my employers', c.) On 1/18/13 8:20 AM, Jon Gorman wrote: On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 9:38 AM, Karen Coyle li...@kcoyle.net wrote: ... and BTW, if people see Zoia as a bit of a problem during the conference, doesn't that mean that Zoia is a bit of a problem all of the time? Is there a reason to be polite and inclusive during the conference but not every day? There's actually two different but closely related issues: 1) Plugins that generate a lot of information/responses which have been a problem as they can interrupt flow of questions/discussions during the conference. @blockparty lists what songs people are playing that have registered their irc nick scrobble. It produces a lot of lines and a couple of calls can cause people's screens to scroll-off. Not a problem with the normal traffic in the room, but when going from maybe 20/30 active participants to hundreds it can be an issue. There's probably some others like @google or @naf with a long response that could be disabled as well. @naf is a nice one for demonstrating zoia, but @marc is pretty compact and also wonderfully library-centric ;). 2) Plugins that are crude/offensive like @mf and the urban dictionary one. I think the thread kicked off with the first one, but I think it rapidly brought in the issue of the latter. I'm in agreement that the latter category probably should be just removed. The first category probably would be useful to disable during the conference but to have. Jon Gorman -- Karen Coyle kco...@kcoyle.net http://kcoyle.net ph: 1-510-540-7596 m: 1-510-435-8234 skype: kcoylenet
Re: [CODE4LIB] Zoia
Yes, I believe zoia was named as a tribute to Zoia Horn, FWIW. -Mike On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 11:40 AM, Kevin S. Clarke kscla...@gmail.comwrote: On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 11:26 AM, Karen Coyle li...@kcoyle.net wrote: Actually, I find the playing with Zoia itself offensive. As per my response to my own message. It objectifies women. Treats them as play-things. Makes me very uncomfortable. I think you're reading too much into Zoia's gender here. As Ross said, the previous bot was named panizzi (Anthony Panizzi). The names have just been picked from famous library folks. I don't imagine anyone would have a problem finding a famous male librarian to rename the bot to, though. I don't think there is anything to read into the gender of the bot here. But to have a play-thing that is gendered is a really, really bad idea. In fact, to have a play-thing of any kind on the channel might not be a good idea. Would you object to a male name? I don't think playing with a bot is a bad thing. I've played with real people in the room in the same way. The nice thing about a bot is that you know you'll get a response (whereas rsinger might just ignore me). As I said, I think you're reading too much into the bot's gender in this case, but I can't imagine anyone would have qualms about renaming the bot to a male name. The name is pretty inconsequential; it was just meant as a tribute to famous folks in our field. Kevin
Re: [CODE4LIB] Zoia
+1 On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 10:46 AM, Misty De Meo misty.de@museumforhumanrights.ca wrote: On 13-01-18 10:26 AM, Karen Coyle li...@kcoyle.net wrote: Actually, I find the playing with Zoia itself offensive. As per my response to my own message. It objectifies women. Treats them as play-things. Makes me very uncomfortable. If we want to have an information bot, perhaps like the one used by W3C which takes minutes for meetings (Zakim, I believe it is), that seems reasonable. But to have a play-thing that is gendered is a really, really bad idea. I think you're reading too much into the zoia's (implicitly) gendered name. zoia's precursor, panizzi, was implicitly male but functioned in the same way zoia does. In fact, to have a play-thing of any kind on the channel might not be a good idea. I know that some folks find it fun, but it is akin to the locker-room shenanigans (at least as I experience it), and it's a HUGE in-joke that makes it obvious to anyone new that they aren't in. I would strongly disagree with this point. As a code4lib newbie a year ago, I found that zoia was a kind of participatory in-joke that made it *easier* for me to acclimatize to the culture of the room. I became comfortable more quickly thanks to zoia. And, as I've mentioned on IRC, I see zoia as being a manifestation of the code4lib spirit itself - a collaboratively-maintained collection of plugins by members of the community. Could the more offensive elements of zoia be reined in? Certainly. But I would find it very unfortunate to remove zoia altogether. Misty (As aLways, opinions are mine, not my employers', c.) On 1/18/13 8:20 AM, Jon Gorman wrote: On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 9:38 AM, Karen Coyle li...@kcoyle.net wrote: ... and BTW, if people see Zoia as a bit of a problem during the conference, doesn't that mean that Zoia is a bit of a problem all of the time? Is there a reason to be polite and inclusive during the conference but not every day? There's actually two different but closely related issues: 1) Plugins that generate a lot of information/responses which have been a problem as they can interrupt flow of questions/discussions during the conference. @blockparty lists what songs people are playing that have registered their irc nick scrobble. It produces a lot of lines and a couple of calls can cause people's screens to scroll-off. Not a problem with the normal traffic in the room, but when going from maybe 20/30 active participants to hundreds it can be an issue. There's probably some others like @google or @naf with a long response that could be disabled as well. @naf is a nice one for demonstrating zoia, but @marc is pretty compact and also wonderfully library-centric ;). 2) Plugins that are crude/offensive like @mf and the urban dictionary one. I think the thread kicked off with the first one, but I think it rapidly brought in the issue of the latter. I'm in agreement that the latter category probably should be just removed. The first category probably would be useful to disable during the conference but to have. Jon Gorman -- Karen Coyle kco...@kcoyle.net http://kcoyle.net ph: 1-510-540-7596 m: 1-510-435-8234 skype: kcoylenet
Re: [CODE4LIB] Zoia
On 1/18/13 8:46 AM, Misty De Meo wrote I would strongly disagree with this point. As a code4lib newbie a year ago, I found that zoia was a kind of participatory in-joke that made it *easier* for me to acclimatize to the culture of the room. I became comfortable more quickly thanks to zoia. The c4l FAQ says, under ground rules: Be sensitive of the fact that cultures, opinions and ideas of what is funny or appropriate are different, and that text is a very poor medium for conveying humor. Not everyone has the same sense of humor, or finds the same things funny. So Zoia play may work for some, but may exclude others. kc And, as I've mentioned on IRC, I see zoia as being a manifestation of the code4lib spirit itself - a collaboratively-maintained collection of plugins by members of the community. Could the more offensive elements of zoia be reined in? Certainly. But I would find it very unfortunate to remove zoia altogether. Misty (As aLways, opinions are mine, not my employers', c.) On 1/18/13 8:20 AM, Jon Gorman wrote: On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 9:38 AM, Karen Coyle li...@kcoyle.net wrote: ... and BTW, if people see Zoia as a bit of a problem during the conference, doesn't that mean that Zoia is a bit of a problem all of the time? Is there a reason to be polite and inclusive during the conference but not every day? There's actually two different but closely related issues: 1) Plugins that generate a lot of information/responses which have been a problem as they can interrupt flow of questions/discussions during the conference. @blockparty lists what songs people are playing that have registered their irc nick scrobble. It produces a lot of lines and a couple of calls can cause people's screens to scroll-off. Not a problem with the normal traffic in the room, but when going from maybe 20/30 active participants to hundreds it can be an issue. There's probably some others like @google or @naf with a long response that could be disabled as well. @naf is a nice one for demonstrating zoia, but @marc is pretty compact and also wonderfully library-centric ;). 2) Plugins that are crude/offensive like @mf and the urban dictionary one. I think the thread kicked off with the first one, but I think it rapidly brought in the issue of the latter. I'm in agreement that the latter category probably should be just removed. The first category probably would be useful to disable during the conference but to have. Jon Gorman -- Karen Coyle kco...@kcoyle.net http://kcoyle.net ph: 1-510-540-7596 m: 1-510-435-8234 skype: kcoylenet -- Karen Coyle kco...@kcoyle.net http://kcoyle.net ph: 1-510-540-7596 m: 1-510-435-8234 skype: kcoylenet
Re: [CODE4LIB] Zoia
Salvete! Code4Lib's female bot Zoia beats Koha's male bot Wahanui any day of the week. I have to say, when I first saw this thread rev up, I thought Heavens! What are those ruffians teaching my darling girl?! I think I've witnessed irreverent quips from time to time, but I don't think I caught anything sexist from her. (Not that I'm always in Code4Lib or even there a lot.) My metric for coding and usability has ever been is task X easy enough for me to do it? In this case that would read: is teaching the bot a new trick, or unlearning an olde bad one, easy enough for me to do it? The answer in this case is a very easy yes. So that gives you an idea of comfort zone. :) I *think* (I'm being horrible and not checking) that she's a supybot, or in any case at least mostly observes that set of commands, so if you're curious, check this out: http://supybook.fealdia.org/devel/ Cause this is anarchy where we can just change the bot back to being civil, yes? Cheers, Brooke
Re: [CODE4LIB] Zoia
On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 11:46 AM, Michael J. Giarlo leftw...@alumni.rutgers.edu wrote: Yes, I believe zoia was named as a tribute to Zoia Horn, FWIW. I did name zoia as a tribute to Zoia Horn. My copy of *ZOIA! Memoirs of Zoia Horn, Battler for the People’s Right to Know* holds a special place on my bookshelf. I highly recommend it. That said, if it would help to make the bot less gendered I'm happy to rename it. I've also been working on a new IRC bot framework in node.js called n0d3 ( https://github.com/gsf/n0d3). I introduced emerac to #code4lib as a hubot a year or so ago, and was planning to reintroduce it as an n0d3 bot at some point. Could be a fun thing to work on at the conference.
Re: [CODE4LIB] Zoia
On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 12:17 PM, Gabriel Farrell gsf...@gmail.com wrote: I've also been working on a new IRC bot framework in node.js called n0d3 ( https://github.com/gsf/n0d3). ... How exactly do you pronounce that?
Re: [CODE4LIB] Zoia
You need a plugin to pronounce that. On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 12:21 PM, Andreas Orphanides akorp...@ncsu.eduwrote: On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 12:17 PM, Gabriel Farrell gsf...@gmail.com wrote: I've also been working on a new IRC bot framework in node.js called n0d3 ( https://github.com/gsf/n0d3). ... How exactly do you pronounce that?
Re: [CODE4LIB] Zoia
On Friday, January 18, 2013, Gabriel Farrell wrote: I've also been working on a new IRC bot framework in node.js called n0d3 ( https://github.com/gsf/n0d3). I introduced emerac to #code4lib as a hubot a year or so ago, and was planning to reintroduce it as an n0d3 bot at some point. Could be a fun thing to work on at the conference. As a recently self-diagnosed Never-Node, this makes me a bit uncomfortable. --jay
Re: [CODE4LIB] Zoia
FWIW, there are a few zoia commands I've noticed that could come across as sexist (especially if you see Zoia as being a female bot). I don't think they are used that frequently, but I have seen: @poledance (have zoia display a poledancer) @euph (have zoia respond in a euphemism) This isn't meant to spoil any of the fun of having zoia around. For the most part, I don't take offense to zoia. But, I do find zoia annoying / noisy (which is why I'm rarely in code4lib IRC). Though there are some useful / helpful zoia commands in there. I like Jon Gorman's suggestion of having a friendly, helpful bot and a wise-cracking one. That way, those of us annoyed by the ongoing wise-cracking can ignore it, while still having access to the helpful stuff. (And it may be easier to turn off the wise-cracking parts during the conference if desired.) - Tim On 1/18/2013 10:26 AM, Karen Coyle wrote: Actually, I find the playing with Zoia itself offensive. As per my response to my own message. It objectifies women. Treats them as play-things. Makes me very uncomfortable. If we want to have an information bot, perhaps like the one used by W3C which takes minutes for meetings (Zakim, I believe it is), that seems reasonable. But to have a play-thing that is gendered is a really, really bad idea. In fact, to have a play-thing of any kind on the channel might not be a good idea. I know that some folks find it fun, but it is akin to the locker-room shenanigans (at least as I experience it), and it's a HUGE in-joke that makes it obvious to anyone new that they aren't in. kc
Re: [CODE4LIB] Zoia
+1 for renaming @poledance to @rsinger. On Friday, January 18, 2013, Tim Donohue wrote: FWIW, there are a few zoia commands I've noticed that could come across as sexist (especially if you see Zoia as being a female bot). I don't think they are used that frequently, but I have seen: @poledance (have zoia display a poledancer) @euph (have zoia respond in a euphemism) This isn't meant to spoil any of the fun of having zoia around. For the most part, I don't take offense to zoia. But, I do find zoia annoying / noisy (which is why I'm rarely in code4lib IRC). Though there are some useful / helpful zoia commands in there. I like Jon Gorman's suggestion of having a friendly, helpful bot and a wise-cracking one. That way, those of us annoyed by the ongoing wise-cracking can ignore it, while still having access to the helpful stuff. (And it may be easier to turn off the wise-cracking parts during the conference if desired.) - Tim On 1/18/2013 10:26 AM, Karen Coyle wrote: Actually, I find the playing with Zoia itself offensive. As per my response to my own message. It objectifies women. Treats them as play-things. Makes me very uncomfortable. If we want to have an information bot, perhaps like the one used by W3C which takes minutes for meetings (Zakim, I believe it is), that seems reasonable. But to have a play-thing that is gendered is a really, really bad idea. In fact, to have a play-thing of any kind on the channel might not be a good idea. I know that some folks find it fun, but it is akin to the locker-room shenanigans (at least as I experience it), and it's a HUGE in-joke that makes it obvious to anyone new that they aren't in. kc
Re: [CODE4LIB] Zoia
It also sounds like our channel @helpers and the @help command could help by spreading the word about /ignore. If you like the #code4lib experience and find Zoia annoying, please do yourself a favor and /ignore zoia so you don't have to miss out. -Mike On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 12:48 PM, Jay Luker lb...@reallywow.com wrote: +1 for renaming @poledance to @rsinger. On Friday, January 18, 2013, Tim Donohue wrote: FWIW, there are a few zoia commands I've noticed that could come across as sexist (especially if you see Zoia as being a female bot). I don't think they are used that frequently, but I have seen: @poledance (have zoia display a poledancer) @euph (have zoia respond in a euphemism) This isn't meant to spoil any of the fun of having zoia around. For the most part, I don't take offense to zoia. But, I do find zoia annoying / noisy (which is why I'm rarely in code4lib IRC). Though there are some useful / helpful zoia commands in there. I like Jon Gorman's suggestion of having a friendly, helpful bot and a wise-cracking one. That way, those of us annoyed by the ongoing wise-cracking can ignore it, while still having access to the helpful stuff. (And it may be easier to turn off the wise-cracking parts during the conference if desired.) - Tim On 1/18/2013 10:26 AM, Karen Coyle wrote: Actually, I find the playing with Zoia itself offensive. As per my response to my own message. It objectifies women. Treats them as play-things. Makes me very uncomfortable. If we want to have an information bot, perhaps like the one used by W3C which takes minutes for meetings (Zakim, I believe it is), that seems reasonable. But to have a play-thing that is gendered is a really, really bad idea. In fact, to have a play-thing of any kind on the channel might not be a good idea. I know that some folks find it fun, but it is akin to the locker-room shenanigans (at least as I experience it), and it's a HUGE in-joke that makes it obvious to anyone new that they aren't in. kc
Re: [CODE4LIB] Zoia
I think there has been general consensus that there are some offensive plugins and that the bot should be held to the same level we expect from a person, but noone (yet) has stepped up to volunteer to go through all that's available and make an effort at cleaning things up. As we all know, things don't get done in Code4Lib without someone doing the work. Anyone want to step up and volunteer to go through what's there and take a stab at it? Even a first pass might advance us to the next level of discussion... or a list of plugins in question could be farmed out to individuals interested in making the changes? Kevin (taking a step backwards) On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Tim Donohue tdono...@duraspace.org wrote: FWIW, there are a few zoia commands I've noticed that could come across as sexist (especially if you see Zoia as being a female bot). I don't think they are used that frequently, but I have seen: @poledance (have zoia display a poledancer) @euph (have zoia respond in a euphemism) This isn't meant to spoil any of the fun of having zoia around. For the most part, I don't take offense to zoia. But, I do find zoia annoying / noisy (which is why I'm rarely in code4lib IRC). Though there are some useful / helpful zoia commands in there. I like Jon Gorman's suggestion of having a friendly, helpful bot and a wise-cracking one. That way, those of us annoyed by the ongoing wise-cracking can ignore it, while still having access to the helpful stuff. (And it may be easier to turn off the wise-cracking parts during the conference if desired.) - Tim On 1/18/2013 10:26 AM, Karen Coyle wrote: Actually, I find the playing with Zoia itself offensive. As per my response to my own message. It objectifies women. Treats them as play-things. Makes me very uncomfortable. If we want to have an information bot, perhaps like the one used by W3C which takes minutes for meetings (Zakim, I believe it is), that seems reasonable. But to have a play-thing that is gendered is a really, really bad idea. In fact, to have a play-thing of any kind on the channel might not be a good idea. I know that some folks find it fun, but it is akin to the locker-room shenanigans (at least as I experience it), and it's a HUGE in-joke that makes it obvious to anyone new that they aren't in. kc
Re: [CODE4LIB] OC/LC - Let There Be MARC
On 1/17/13 5:55 PM, Doran, Michael D wrote: Okay, I promise that this is my last take on the topic: [cid:image001.png@01CDF4D2.0B32A3B0] Yes that *is* Roy wailing on guitar. Full resolution available from here: http://rocky.uta.edu/doran/oclc/ Admittedly a crude job, but (like all my graphics) done entirely with SnagIt and PowerPoint, so no apologies. None needed! Mind if I use it in a presentation? -- Gary McGath, Professional Software Developer http://www.garymcgath.com
Re: [CODE4LIB] Zoia
On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 12:38 PM, Jay Luker lb...@reallywow.com wrote: On Friday, January 18, 2013, Gabriel Farrell wrote: I've also been working on a new IRC bot framework in node.js called n0d3 ( https://github.com/gsf/n0d3). I introduced emerac to #code4lib as a hubot a year or so ago, and was planning to reintroduce it as an n0d3 bot at some point. Could be a fun thing to work on at the conference. As a recently self-diagnosed Never-Node, this makes me a bit uncomfortable. Okay, maybe it's not a good idea for #code4lib then.
[CODE4LIB] Commercial announcement: Hosted connectors for search targets
Hey guys, I hope I'll be forgiven for making what is essentially a commercial post -- it is just that the subject matter is so much inspired by our work with library developers, I'd feel like a chump not to mention it. Apologies, then; I will keep it short. Basically, we've launched a service for libraries that are building portals, mashups, federation, metasearching, whatever needs access to remote discovery systems. It is designed to get around the hassle that 80% of the things that I usually want to search don't offer SRU, Z39.50, or even for that matter a private API. Our service basically exposes 'just about anything' that we can possibly get to. We make it available to your application through your choice of Z39.50 or SRU. We normalize query formats and record representations; we work with custom APIs, deal with broken SRU servers and half-broken Z39.50, we screen-scrape, we deal with authentication, etc. If we don't already have a connector, we'll make one at no extra charge; if it breaks later, we'll fix it. Feel free to contact me off-list if you're interested in trying it out. http://www.indexdata.com/masterkey-connect/ Cheers, --Sebastian -- Sebastian Hammer, Index Data qu...@indexdata.com www.indexdata.com
Re: [CODE4LIB] Commercial announcement: Hosted connectors for search targets
I've seen the inside of this tech, and I have to say it is really neat and useful. This is a nice tool to have in your toolbox if you want to build machine APIs to systems that don't have machine APIs: Wikipedia, arXiv, CiteSeer, etc. Peter /me was not paid for this endorsement. On Jan 18, 2013, at 1:48 PM, Sebastian Hammer qu...@indexdata.com wrote: Hey guys, I hope I'll be forgiven for making what is essentially a commercial post -- it is just that the subject matter is so much inspired by our work with library developers, I'd feel like a chump not to mention it. Apologies, then; I will keep it short. Basically, we've launched a service for libraries that are building portals, mashups, federation, metasearching, whatever needs access to remote discovery systems. It is designed to get around the hassle that 80% of the things that I usually want to search don't offer SRU, Z39.50, or even for that matter a private API. Our service basically exposes 'just about anything' that we can possibly get to. We make it available to your application through your choice of Z39.50 or SRU. We normalize query formats and record representations; we work with custom APIs, deal with broken SRU servers and half-broken Z39.50, we screen-scrape, we deal with authentication, etc. If we don't already have a connector, we'll make one at no extra charge; if it breaks later, we'll fix it. Feel free to contact me off-list if you're interested in trying it out. http://www.indexdata.com/masterkey-connect/ Cheers, --Sebastian -- Peter Murray Assistant Director, Technology Services Development LYRASIS peter.mur...@lyrasis.org +1 678-235-2955 1438 West Peachtree Street NW Suite 200 Atlanta, GA 30309 Toll Free: 800.999.8558 Fax: 404.892.7879 www.lyrasis.org LYRASIS: Great Libraries. Strong Communities. Innovative Answers.
Re: [CODE4LIB] Zoia
Is it the plugins themselves or the content? I suspect that some plugins lend themselves to more joking around and possible inappropriateness, but I'm not sure that it's plugin problem, perhaps its a user error. kc On 1/18/13 10:17 AM, Kevin S. Clarke wrote: I think there has been general consensus that there are some offensive plugins and that the bot should be held to the same level we expect from a person, but noone (yet) has stepped up to volunteer to go through all that's available and make an effort at cleaning things up. As we all know, things don't get done in Code4Lib without someone doing the work. Anyone want to step up and volunteer to go through what's there and take a stab at it? Even a first pass might advance us to the next level of discussion... or a list of plugins in question could be farmed out to individuals interested in making the changes? Kevin (taking a step backwards) On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Tim Donohue tdono...@duraspace.org wrote: FWIW, there are a few zoia commands I've noticed that could come across as sexist (especially if you see Zoia as being a female bot). I don't think they are used that frequently, but I have seen: @poledance (have zoia display a poledancer) @euph (have zoia respond in a euphemism) This isn't meant to spoil any of the fun of having zoia around. For the most part, I don't take offense to zoia. But, I do find zoia annoying / noisy (which is why I'm rarely in code4lib IRC). Though there are some useful / helpful zoia commands in there. I like Jon Gorman's suggestion of having a friendly, helpful bot and a wise-cracking one. That way, those of us annoyed by the ongoing wise-cracking can ignore it, while still having access to the helpful stuff. (And it may be easier to turn off the wise-cracking parts during the conference if desired.) - Tim On 1/18/2013 10:26 AM, Karen Coyle wrote: Actually, I find the playing with Zoia itself offensive. As per my response to my own message. It objectifies women. Treats them as play-things. Makes me very uncomfortable. If we want to have an information bot, perhaps like the one used by W3C which takes minutes for meetings (Zakim, I believe it is), that seems reasonable. But to have a play-thing that is gendered is a really, really bad idea. In fact, to have a play-thing of any kind on the channel might not be a good idea. I know that some folks find it fun, but it is akin to the locker-room shenanigans (at least as I experience it), and it's a HUGE in-joke that makes it obvious to anyone new that they aren't in. kc -- Karen Coyle kco...@kcoyle.net http://kcoyle.net ph: 1-510-540-7596 m: 1-510-435-8234 skype: kcoylenet
Re: [CODE4LIB] Zoia
On 1/18/13 10:38 AM, Karen Coyle li...@kcoyle.net wrote: ... and BTW, if people see Zoia as a bit of a problem during the conference, doesn't that mean that Zoia is a bit of a problem all of the time? Yes. Is there a reason to be polite and inclusive during the conference but not every day? No. Could this have any relation to the felt need to create #libtechwomen? Yes. I know these are rhetorical questions but each of them bears repeating. And to this last point, I would underscore that the need was first felt, then openly discussed in this channel and acted upon. Thank you for raising these questions - the earlier discussions about community dynamics were the elephant in the what about zoia room. Joe Montibello, MLIS Library Systems Manager Dartmouth College Library 603.646.9394 joseph.montibe...@dartmouth.edu
Re: [CODE4LIB] Zoia
FWIW, I am both an active #libtechwomen participant and someone who is so thoroughly charmed by zoia I am frequently bothered she isn't right there *in my real life*. (Yes, I have tried to issue zoia commands during face-to-face conversations with non-Code4Libbers.) I think a collaboratively maintained bot with a highly open ethos is always going to end up with some things that cross people's lines, and that's an opportunity to talk about those lines and rearticulate our group norms. And to that end, I'm in favor of weeding the collection of plugins, whether because of offensiveness or disuse. (Perhaps this would be a good use of github's issue tracker, too?) I also think some sort of 'what's zoia and how can you contribute' link would be useful in any welcome-newbie plugin; it did take me a while to figure out what was going on there. (Just as it took me the while to acquire the tastes for, say, coffee, bourbon, and blue cheese, tastes which I would now defend ferociously.) But not having zoia would make me sad. And defining zoia to be woman-unfriendly, when zoia-lovers and zoia-haters appear to span the gender spectrum and have a variety of reasons (both gendered and non) for their reactions, would make me sad too. @love zoia. Andromeda On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 10:38 AM, Karen Coyle li...@kcoyle.net wrote: ... and BTW, if people see Zoia as a bit of a problem during the conference, doesn't that mean that Zoia is a bit of a problem all of the time? Is there a reason to be polite and inclusive during the conference but not every day? Could this have any relation to the felt need to create #libtechwomen? kc -- Karen Coyle kco...@kcoyle.net http://kcoyle.net ph: 1-510-540-7596 m: 1-510-435-8234 skype: kcoylenet
[CODE4LIB] Job: Systems Support Specialist at North of Boston Library Exchange
Systems Support Specialist needed to participate in operation of servers, networks and software for the North Of Boston Library Exchange (NOBLE) in Danvers. Operate and update servers, troubleshoot issues, file bug reports, working with NOBLE staff, staff of other networks, system vendors and the open source community. NOBLE is an automated library network and technology partner for 28 public and academic libraries operating an open source Evergreen library management system as well as providing web hosting, email, a telecommunications network, downloadable ebooks and audiobooks, and digital repository service. Knowledge of Linux operating systems required. Familiarity with perl, PHP; relational databases (e.g., MySQL, PostgreSQL), web (e.g., HTTP, HTML, XML, CSS,), Javascript and programming concepts desirable. Knowledge and experience with software development, including version control, documentation, and sound security practices, computer applications in a library setting, web servers, and Apache experience with HTML5, WordPress, Evergreen a plus. Bachelor's degree or equivalent in Computer or Information Science or a related field and 1-3 years of increasingly responsible related experience optimal. Ability to work independently and with initiative as needed, and the ability to work collaboratively. Starting salary $52,100, with benefits package. Applications accepted until position is filled. To ensure consideration, applications should be submitted by February 7, 2013 to gag...@noblenet.org, attn. Systems Support search. Brought to you by code4lib jobs: http://jobs.code4lib.org/job/5667/
Re: [CODE4LIB] Zoia
On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 2:26 PM, Karen Coyle li...@kcoyle.net wrote: Is it the plugins themselves or the content? I suspect that some plugins lend themselves to more joking around and possible inappropriateness, but I'm not sure that it's plugin problem, perhaps its a user error. I seem to be in a talkative mood today. I'd like to make the distinction between @mf which will return the same result every time and @ana (an anagram plugin) which will sometimes return something offensive. When you use @mf you know you're doing something which some might find offensive. When you use @ana most of what you get isn't offensive (it is more of a case of bad luck when you get something that is... and people have dealt with this, in the past, in different ways; one of which is by decrementing the bot when something offensive is said (to express disagreement with the statement that their interaction produced)). On the first case, @mf... is it the plugin or is it the person? Yes, guns don't kill people... people kill people. That still doesn't stop me from wanting to pass gun laws though. In the case of @ana... that seems pretty clearly a plugin problem to me, and one that's fixable by changing the plugin. As always, just my two cents... Kevin
Re: [CODE4LIB] Zoia
On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 1:30 PM, Andromeda Yelton andromeda.yel...@gmail.com wrote: But not having zoia would make me sad. And defining zoia to be woman-unfriendly, when zoia-lovers and zoia-haters appear to span the gender spectrum and have a variety of reasons (both gendered and non) for their reactions, would make me sad too. @love zoia. +1 from a woman who's thoroughly amused by zoia more often than not
Re: [CODE4LIB] Zoia
Merged #4. --ay On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 2:52 PM, Nick Ruest rue...@gmail.com wrote: Starting the work. Remove poledance and euph: https://github.com/code4lib/** supybot-plugins/pull/4https://github.com/code4lib/supybot-plugins/pull/4 -nruest On 13-01-18 01:17 PM, Kevin S. Clarke wrote: I think there has been general consensus that there are some offensive plugins and that the bot should be held to the same level we expect from a person, but noone (yet) has stepped up to volunteer to go through all that's available and make an effort at cleaning things up. As we all know, things don't get done in Code4Lib without someone doing the work. Anyone want to step up and volunteer to go through what's there and take a stab at it? Even a first pass might advance us to the next level of discussion... or a list of plugins in question could be farmed out to individuals interested in making the changes? Kevin (taking a step backwards) On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Tim Donohue tdono...@duraspace.org wrote: FWIW, there are a few zoia commands I've noticed that could come across as sexist (especially if you see Zoia as being a female bot). I don't think they are used that frequently, but I have seen: @poledance (have zoia display a poledancer) @euph (have zoia respond in a euphemism) This isn't meant to spoil any of the fun of having zoia around. For the most part, I don't take offense to zoia. But, I do find zoia annoying / noisy (which is why I'm rarely in code4lib IRC). Though there are some useful / helpful zoia commands in there. I like Jon Gorman's suggestion of having a friendly, helpful bot and a wise-cracking one. That way, those of us annoyed by the ongoing wise-cracking can ignore it, while still having access to the helpful stuff. (And it may be easier to turn off the wise-cracking parts during the conference if desired.) - Tim On 1/18/2013 10:26 AM, Karen Coyle wrote: Actually, I find the playing with Zoia itself offensive. As per my response to my own message. It objectifies women. Treats them as play-things. Makes me very uncomfortable. If we want to have an information bot, perhaps like the one used by W3C which takes minutes for meetings (Zakim, I believe it is), that seems reasonable. But to have a play-thing that is gendered is a really, really bad idea. In fact, to have a play-thing of any kind on the channel might not be a good idea. I know that some folks find it fun, but it is akin to the locker-room shenanigans (at least as I experience it), and it's a HUGE in-joke that makes it obvious to anyone new that they aren't in. kc
Re: [CODE4LIB] Zoia
I'm looking at the supybot code in c4l's github and don't see @mf here in any of the three folders. Can you say what it does? Thanks, kc On 1/18/13 11:46 AM, Kevin S. Clarke wrote: On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 2:26 PM, Karen Coyle li...@kcoyle.net wrote: Is it the plugins themselves or the content? I suspect that some plugins lend themselves to more joking around and possible inappropriateness, but I'm not sure that it's plugin problem, perhaps its a user error. I seem to be in a talkative mood today. I'd like to make the distinction between @mf which will return the same result every time and @ana (an anagram plugin) which will sometimes return something offensive. When you use @mf you know you're doing something which some might find offensive. When you use @ana most of what you get isn't offensive (it is more of a case of bad luck when you get something that is... and people have dealt with this, in the past, in different ways; one of which is by decrementing the bot when something offensive is said (to express disagreement with the statement that their interaction produced)). On the first case, @mf... is it the plugin or is it the person? Yes, guns don't kill people... people kill people. That still doesn't stop me from wanting to pass gun laws though. In the case of @ana... that seems pretty clearly a plugin problem to me, and one that's fixable by changing the plugin. As always, just my two cents... Kevin -- Karen Coyle kco...@kcoyle.net http://kcoyle.net ph: 1-510-540-7596 m: 1-510-435-8234 skype: kcoylenet
Re: [CODE4LIB] Zoia
@mf just returns a large ASCII image of a hand flicking the bird (or what do the kids call it nowadays?) That is, sticking up its middle finger. Kevin On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 3:02 PM, Karen Coyle li...@kcoyle.net wrote: I'm looking at the supybot code in c4l's github and don't see @mf here in any of the three folders. Can you say what it does? Thanks, kc On 1/18/13 11:46 AM, Kevin S. Clarke wrote: On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 2:26 PM, Karen Coyle li...@kcoyle.net wrote: Is it the plugins themselves or the content? I suspect that some plugins lend themselves to more joking around and possible inappropriateness, but I'm not sure that it's plugin problem, perhaps its a user error. I seem to be in a talkative mood today. I'd like to make the distinction between @mf which will return the same result every time and @ana (an anagram plugin) which will sometimes return something offensive. When you use @mf you know you're doing something which some might find offensive. When you use @ana most of what you get isn't offensive (it is more of a case of bad luck when you get something that is... and people have dealt with this, in the past, in different ways; one of which is by decrementing the bot when something offensive is said (to express disagreement with the statement that their interaction produced)). On the first case, @mf... is it the plugin or is it the person? Yes, guns don't kill people... people kill people. That still doesn't stop me from wanting to pass gun laws though. In the case of @ana... that seems pretty clearly a plugin problem to me, and one that's fixable by changing the plugin. As always, just my two cents... Kevin -- Karen Coyle kco...@kcoyle.net http://kcoyle.net ph: 1-510-540-7596 m: 1-510-435-8234 skype: kcoylenet
Re: [CODE4LIB] Zoia
Have some more. https://github.com/code4lib/supybot-plugins/pull/5 -nruest On 13-01-18 02:56 PM, Andromeda Yelton wrote: Merged #4. --ay On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 2:52 PM, Nick Ruest rue...@gmail.com wrote: Starting the work. Remove poledance and euph: https://github.com/code4lib/** supybot-plugins/pull/4https://github.com/code4lib/supybot-plugins/pull/4 -nruest On 13-01-18 01:17 PM, Kevin S. Clarke wrote: I think there has been general consensus that there are some offensive plugins and that the bot should be held to the same level we expect from a person, but noone (yet) has stepped up to volunteer to go through all that's available and make an effort at cleaning things up. As we all know, things don't get done in Code4Lib without someone doing the work. Anyone want to step up and volunteer to go through what's there and take a stab at it? Even a first pass might advance us to the next level of discussion... or a list of plugins in question could be farmed out to individuals interested in making the changes? Kevin (taking a step backwards) On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Tim Donohue tdono...@duraspace.org wrote: FWIW, there are a few zoia commands I've noticed that could come across as sexist (especially if you see Zoia as being a female bot). I don't think they are used that frequently, but I have seen: @poledance (have zoia display a poledancer) @euph (have zoia respond in a euphemism) This isn't meant to spoil any of the fun of having zoia around. For the most part, I don't take offense to zoia. But, I do find zoia annoying / noisy (which is why I'm rarely in code4lib IRC). Though there are some useful / helpful zoia commands in there. I like Jon Gorman's suggestion of having a friendly, helpful bot and a wise-cracking one. That way, those of us annoyed by the ongoing wise-cracking can ignore it, while still having access to the helpful stuff. (And it may be easier to turn off the wise-cracking parts during the conference if desired.) - Tim On 1/18/2013 10:26 AM, Karen Coyle wrote: Actually, I find the playing with Zoia itself offensive. As per my response to my own message. It objectifies women. Treats them as play-things. Makes me very uncomfortable. If we want to have an information bot, perhaps like the one used by W3C which takes minutes for meetings (Zakim, I believe it is), that seems reasonable. But to have a play-thing that is gendered is a really, really bad idea. In fact, to have a play-thing of any kind on the channel might not be a good idea. I know that some folks find it fun, but it is akin to the locker-room shenanigans (at least as I experience it), and it's a HUGE in-joke that makes it obvious to anyone new that they aren't in. kc
[CODE4LIB] NISO Open Discovery Initiative - Survey report now available
(with apologies for cross-posting) The Open Discovery Initiative (ODI), a volunteer work group within the National Information Standards Organization (NISO), was formed to develop a recommended practice related to the index-based discovery services for libraries. The ODI aims to investigate and improve the ecosystem surrounding these discovery services, with a goal of broader participation of content providers and increased transparency to libraries. The ODI working group was formed in late 2011 and held its first meeting in January 2012. This fall, the ODI dispatched a survey of librarians, content providers, and discovery service providers to learn more about the current state of satisfaction with these new research tools and to measure the value of various requirements in cross-sector practice. The survey addressed current levels of scholarly metadata delivery / indexing, technical successes / opportunities in these data exchanges, and potential benefits of greater development / distribution of discovery tool usage data. A request to participate in the survey was sent to this mailing list. Many thanks for your input if you participated! *The report from this survey is now available via the NISO ODI page at ** http://www.niso.org/workrooms/odi/* http://www.niso.org/workrooms/odi/- please note that the full set of recommendations from the ODI Working Group is still underway and will be available in draft form for comment a few months from now. Survey findings and analysis are provided in detail in this report, which is organized by type of respondent. Each constituency was posed with a range of 5-15 questions on similar topics, customized to address the specific factors that characterize or impact each sector. It is important to note that not all questions were required for completion of the survey, so some items were left unanswered by some respondents. Following the survey exercise, the ODI will be tasked with developing recommendations for consideration by the wider NISO community. The conclusion of this survey report outlines those next steps in greater detail. If you are interested in keeping up to date with ODI, please sign up to our Interest mailing list: http://www.niso.org/lists/opendiscovery. Sincerely, ODI Working Group o...@niso.org -- Ken Varnum | Web Systems Manager | MLibrary - University of Michigan - Ann Arbor var...@umich.edu | @varnum | http://www.lib.umich.edu/users/varnum | 734-615-3287
Re: [CODE4LIB] Zoia
I personally regard the IRC channel as a particular flavor of c4l, rather than the primary flavor. For example, this discussion is happening on the mailing list and not in the IRC channel. I'd say IRC is one of the main flavors, but I'm not sure I would call anything primary. I really like zoia, and find the channel to be a very good complement to the conference. But I really don't hang out in IRC, and I think many people who read the mailing list and/or attend events don't either. Regarding people being comfortable with participating in the IRC channel, I think you can't please everyone. If you stop all the messing around with zoia because some people find it frivolous and irritating, then other people will think the channel has gotten too stuffy and serious. So I think it's important to keep focused on what is alienating to a large fraction of the community. -Esme -- Esme Cowles escow...@ucsd.edu Information wants to be anthropomorphized. -- /. sig On 01/18/2013, at 3:47 PM, Karen Coyle li...@kcoyle.net wrote: This would mean not seeing the c4l irc as a primary community space but as a particular flavor of the community space, and taking pains to make sure that c4l IRC is not billed as or treated as the main stage for c4l and those who do not hang out in the channel should not be viewed as non-participants in c4l (and I think they are not). However, by doing so we do lose the one central go-to place for quick questions when you're stuck in some technology nightmare. Some of that takes place on the list, but sometimes you want to find a real person and do a quick back-and-forth.
