Re: GSoC 2008
Niluge KiWi wrote: With the two accelerometers in the FreeRunner, I think we can recognise lots of gestures, not only simple ones like a click (which is already recognised by the accelerometers used in the FreeRunner). The main difficulty is probably to extract the useful data from the gestures noise : calibration may take time. The goal is to have an almost pre-calibrated library (an idea from the wish-list in the Wiki is to allow the user to record its own gestures, but I think it's not easy to do it simple for the end-user). Good idea, but consider to store calibration data separately. This will made the library more general. You want reuse it in other devices. So the recorded gestures. The accelerometers could provide not only small gestures recognition (like the ones listed on the Wiki: up-side-down, shaking, flipping, ...), but full 3D-space positioning from a start position (when the software is started). So long, and thank for all the fish. Evgeny. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 850MHz or 900MHz? ATT or TMobile?
On Sun, 2008-03-23 at 00:50 -0700, Lowell Higley wrote: I bought a tri-band phone while I lived in Europe. It is 900Mhz/1900Mhz. I had no problems with it on T-Mobile's USA network while I was their customer. I tend to buy my phones is Asia or Europe because they are unlocked and usually not crippled. T-Mobile in particular likes to artificially limit their phones. For example, they will limit SMS messages to say 30 characters when that is not the technological limit. My theory is they do this to increase the number text messages sent so they can get you to buy a more expensive SMS plan or charge you the 10 cents per message overage charge. Sounds like you got a raw deal. I'd have quit too if my T-mobile experience was like that. I've been a T-mobile customer since they were VoiceStream and I've had no problems. I stopped buying phones from T-Mo directly many years ago (Back when consumer phones were switching from B/W to color) and instead I have bought my last couple of phones from eBay, unlocked. I've had no problems using them with my SIM card. T-Mo's website doesn't recognize my phone when I login, but I know a compatible model (Same OS, same QWERTY keyboard) so I override it and everything mostly works for me (Some of their T-Zones website features don't seem to want to work, but I stopped caring about those when I found free equivalents online). I'm anxious to try GPRS on a FreeRunner. I hope the 2.5G will be faster and more capable than the radio that's in my current phone. I've never seen T-mo artificially limit phones; not like I've seen Verizon do it. All my texts have been sent as 160-chars-per and my phone automatically reassembles the ones that get split, so any 30-char limit isn't a feature of the network. I haven't actually had to call T-mo customer service in several years. I get signal pretty much everywhere I want it and where I don't, there's generally a localized reason that everyone else is subject to. -KW ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GSoC 2008
On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:02:34 +0100 Niluge KiWi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I'm a student in the french engineer school ENSIMAG, and I would like to work for OpenMoko during the Google Summer of Code. I'm interested in the accelerometers features [1]: Recognising gestures is a really important part of the interface between the user and the phone. With the two accelerometers in the FreeRunner, I think we can recognise lots of gestures, not only simple ones like a click (which is already recognised by the accelerometers used in the FreeRunner). The main difficulty is probably to extract the useful data from the gestures noise : calibration may take time. The goal is to have an almost pre-calibrated library (an idea from the wish-list in the Wiki is to allow the user to record its own gestures, but I think it's not easy to do it simple for the end-user). The accelerometers could provide not only small gestures recognition (like the ones listed on the Wiki: up-side-down, shaking, flipping, ...), but full 3D-space positioning from a start position (when the software is started). Then we can imagine lots of uses of the library : improvements in the control of the phone, programs specially created to use such control(little games for examples). The accelerometers gestures could be combined with the touchscreen for a better use. For example, the gesture navigation can be activated only when pressing the screen: if we are viewing a large picture, zoomed in, we could move through it by moving the phone, but we don't want it moves all the time. Other examples given on the Wiki [2] could be implemented by using the library. I looked at the driver for the accelerometers, and it seems it's not yet working. I don't think I'm able to work on the driver, so I hope it will work this summer. Who would need multitouch when we have this? Sounds great to me. -- Ewan Marshall (ewanm89/Cap_J_L_Picard on irc) http://ewanm89.co.uk/ Geek by nature, Linux by choice. signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Price of the Freerunner spare parts
Hi Steve, There is a different between countries. It's a legal (rules and regulations) issue. in my county you can not seal a devises without the ability to seal spare parts. The regulator must to make sure that you have the ability to support the costumers (include hardware maintenance and support) its mean that any distributor / reseller need to hold a spare parts in stock (or to make sure that he have a continuous supply of spare parts) for 3 years after the date the costumer buy a device . - doron steve wrote: I thought about spare parts a while back. The Issue is this. 1. WHAT do I stock ( which parts) 2. How Many do I stock? 3. How do I sell them to you? 4. What will it cost? 5. how do you get them? I suppose I could Offer component kits for sale. That would be the quickest thing for me to do. Sell the whole bag of parts; fix it your self. or build a business around this service. Let me think about it. Throw rotten fruit at this idea if you like. Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of joerg Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 8:44 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Price of the Freerunner spare parts Am So 23. März 2008 schrieb Sean Moss-Pultz: We will have our own hub in the EU. Neos will move directly from our factory to that hub. What's about availability and pricing of spare parts like LCM, battery, housing? Will there be any repair service? cheers jOERG ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- http://www.ofek.biz P Save a tree...please don't print this e-mail ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GSoC 2008
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: Niluge KiWi wrote: With the two accelerometers in the FreeRunner, I think we can recognise lots of gestures, not only simple ones like a click (which is already recognised by the accelerometers used in the FreeRunner). The main difficulty is probably to extract the useful data from the gestures noise : calibration may take time. The goal is to have an almost pre-calibrated library (an idea from the wish-list in the Wiki is to allow the user to record its own gestures, but I think it's not easy to do it simple for the end-user). Good idea, but consider to store calibration data separately. This will made the library more general. You want reuse it in other devices. So the recorded gestures. There's another constraint on this, in the future a very weak 16-bit MPU may have the duty to interpret the sensor data into gestures. Whatever we do for Freerunner and get it right, it would be perfect to port it to this proposed future sensor management MPU. It means that a perfect solution is predicated around - 16 bit integer arithmetic -- ha no float is too easy - per-sample short processing rather than large batching - multiply is expensive (but hey shifting is cheap :-) ) The raw accelerometer data is predicated around byte data for X Y Z per sample per motion sensor. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH6LgHOjLpvpq7dMoRArXRAJ942L+fzsXHq+SYmbufUKHLR17vbQCeOe0B SVs4RTB7dHTX3n+TyLxjsAQ= =+SMU -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GSoC 2008
Am Di 25. März 2008 schrieb Andy Green: [...] It means that a perfect solution is predicated around - 16 bit integer arithmetic -- ha no float is too easy - per-sample short processing rather than large batching - multiply is expensive (but hey shifting is cheap :-) ) Divide? Hey, for normalizing vector direction of gestures to different orientation of NEO, we will need trigonometric calculations, no? Anyway, it shouldn't be much harder than trainable OCR of PALM (Tealscript?), and i think we can compare the power of PalmCPU to that of MPU. If anything else fails, MPU has to buffer the G-meter data, and recognition of the actual gesture has to be done on main CPU. (no real option) jOERG ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
gsoc 2008 moblog
Hello OpenMoko communtiy! I'm a student from Sweden and I'm interested in the moblog idea on google summer of code page on the wiki. Does this idea include coding on the server side or is there already a moblog that you should already code a client for? Also how hard is it to learn to make applications in Java Me if you only are familiar Java SE? /David Laurell a student from sweden ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
video/graphics on GTA02
I was going through the hardware specs of the GTA02 once again and was wondering about the possible performance improvements because of the faster processor and the smedia graphics chip. I had three specific questions - 1) will 30 fps VGA res playback be possible? 2) will it be possible to have 2d transition effects (like MAC OS/ Vista) be possible on the GUI without noticiable wait times. 3) Is any form of 3D acceleration support possible in the future for games? I feel that the VGA screen is the feature distinguisher that the FreeRunner has and the graphics should make full use of it. Rakshat ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: video/graphics on GTA02
rakshat hooja wrote: 1) will 30 fps VGA res playback be possible? 2) will it be possible to have 2d transition effects (like MAC OS/ Vista) be possible on the GUI without noticiable wait times. 3) Is any form of 3D acceleration support possible in the future for games? I had those questions too, I think that when 3D specs of the Glamo chip will be available, it will be possible to make some 3D-accelerated tasks, but I've no idea about the performances of this chip. Anyway I don't think it's so great... More than games I'd be intrested on some (simple) compositor-based effects, but of course I'd like to have also 3D games :P (think to Neverball used with accelerometers!!!). I'm waiting for more informations... Bye! -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: video/graphics on GTA02
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: rakshat hooja wrote: The answer to all these is with more work (and not with landscape rotation :-)) ) 1) will 30 fps VGA res playback be possible? There is an MP4 decoder in hardware in the Glamo, we didn't target it yet. It says it can do 30fps CIF and 20fps VGA, no code for it, not tested, etc, but presumably it works. There is a special case considering SD interface on Glamo (which we do support) where the CPU only has to manage block level info from Glamo SD - - Glamo memory - Glamo MP4 decoder and it is almost all done outside the CPU (audio excepted). 2) will it be possible to have 2d transition effects (like MAC OS/ Vista) be possible on the GUI without noticiable wait times. 3) Is any form of 3D acceleration support possible in the future for games? There is a hardware 3D unit on the Glamo, the main constraint is it can only address 512 x 512. Otherwise it has lighting and textures and so on and can do some kind of games. I had those questions too, I think that when 3D specs of the Glamo chip will be available, it will be possible to make some 3D-accelerated tasks, but I've no idea about the performances of this chip. Anyway I don't think it's so great... Right, but because it is local to the glamo where the memory is, it is possible it can surprise us a bit. Currently the Glamo data is under NDA, if anyone with experience on this end is interested to write the driver support they should definitely let us know. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH6QInOjLpvpq7dMoRAm4NAJ92ETj9KX1rr2px/shUyRqiPXvKZQCcDIn7 t2mUbSO5yvOLxvdbPQFjugI= =p4Bn -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: video/graphics on GTA02
Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote: I had those questions too, I think that when 3D specs of the Glamo chip will be available, it will be possible to make some 3D-accelerated tasks, but I've no idea about the performances of this chip. Anyway I don't think it's so great... Looking at the smedia develpers page [1] there are two examples of 3D games that, I hope, should work on glamo chips. They're not so simple, and... One of these is Neverball itself :P. Anyway I think that the 3D support of the chip has not started yet (does it need some Mesa hack, isn't it?!) so maybe we've to wait some time for it (what about developing this durning GSoC!?). Bye [1] http://www.smediatech.com/developer.htm -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: video/graphics on GTA02
What about a mod for dvb-h receiver? Via usb? A driver for external usb device would be feasible. http://www.teamcast.com/en/maj-e/c2a2i12376/products/demodulators/dvb-h-portable-demodulator.htm Matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marco Trevisan (Treviño) Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 9:58 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: video/graphics on GTA02 Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote: I had those questions too, I think that when 3D specs of the Glamo chip will be available, it will be possible to make some 3D-accelerated tasks, but I've no idea about the performances of this chip. Anyway I don't think it's so great... Looking at the smedia develpers page [1] there are two examples of 3D games that, I hope, should work on glamo chips. They're not so simple, and... One of these is Neverball itself :P. Anyway I think that the 3D support of the chip has not started yet (does it need some Mesa hack, isn't it?!) so maybe we've to wait some time for it (what about developing this durning GSoC!?). Bye [1] http://www.smediatech.com/developer.htm -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: video/graphics on GTA02
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: What about a mod for dvb-h receiver? Via usb? A driver for external usb device would be feasible. http://www.teamcast.com/en/maj-e/c2a2i12376/products/demodulators/dvb-h-portable-demodulator.htm Yes this is not impossible, after some ferreting around I see that the datarate is 1 -2 Mbps, it can work with 12Mbps USB host if the DVB-H chipset will support that (I guess it should). The extent to which we can cope with decoding and displaying any MPEG2 data we get in realtime I am less sure about. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH6Qu3OjLpvpq7dMoRArCKAJ9tO6qttbcwmrcQugXB5IJDLsSdCgCgi5Pn QtP3qcAVt0Dx6GYwxjPU6xY= =UM65 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GSoC 2008
Somebody in the thread at some point said: The raw accelerometer data is predicated around byte data for X Y Z per sample per motion sensor. Ultimately the gesture recognition action is about eating 200 3-byte packets of data a second and issuing only one or two bytes per second about any gesture that was seen. The Spec document for the accelerometers says the refresh rate can be chosen: 100Hz, or 400Hz. The three values are stored as 2's complement number in one byte for each axis. Somebody in the thread at some point said: Or a rotating shake with axis long side: it looks completely different when device is upright, 45°, or flat (in fact this gesture isn't detectable at all in upright position, in the first place). Only correct way is to calculate real heading and velocity vector of device, as accurate as possible. Then accumulate a route, and this route you may compare to a set of templates for best match (after transforming for size and orientation). All this is very low accuracy, so 16bit integer and sine-tables will do easily, but i don't think it will become much cheaper than this. That is, if the gestures are more complex than just one sharp shake 2 gentle shakes etc. With the two accelerometers, we can calculate the position(and the velocity) of the two accelerometers from a start point (position and velocity). But this is not enough to have the position of the whole phone in the space : we don't know the rotation movement along the axis defined by the two accelerometers. I didn't managed to open and view the FreeRunner hardware source files(the software seems to be closed source and not free), so I don't know the position of the two accelerometers on the phone, but I hope they are well placed (so that we don't really need the unknown angle). ( I also tried to see the chips on the motherboard shots available on the wiki, but didn't found them...) As we know that the relative position of the two accelerometers is fixed, it could help to detect calculation errors, and maybe correct them (a little...). Regarding the work on a MPU, if I've understood what I've read on the mailing list archives, it's still just and idea, and the FreeRunner wont have one, am I right? For the GSoC, I think working on a simple library which uses the CPU would be already a good thing. (but we can work with the idea in mind that the code will need to be ported for a MPU). The library could provide two things : * the recognition of typical gestures * the position and velocity evolutions in time I don't know yet if it is necessary or not to calculate the latter to obtain the first :it probably depends on the complexity of the gestures to recognize, so we could divide the gestures in two groups : the simples ones, like a fast acceleration in any direction, and more complex ones: a Pi/2 rotation (landscape mode). We should also use the click and double click recognition(in each axis) already provided by the chip itself because it needs no cpu at all. The hardware also provide a free-fall detection. If we could build such a library, it could allow to create so many things ( the gestures for an easier interface, and the position and velocity for games, but not only ). ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GSoC 2008
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: Somebody in the thread at some point said: The raw accelerometer data is predicated around byte data for X Y Z per sample per motion sensor. Ultimately the gesture recognition action is about eating 200 3-byte packets of data a second and issuing only one or two bytes per second about any gesture that was seen. The Spec document for the accelerometers says the refresh rate can be chosen: 100Hz, or 400Hz. The three values are stored as 2's complement number in one byte for each axis. Yes. In GTA02 the sensors are serviced by the CPU by separate interrupts, so we have to eat the power consumption of 200 interrupts/sec... I figure 800 interrupts/sec might be a bit much. So currently it works at 100Hz. Maybe it means higher frequency subtleties are lost, I guess we can find out. Somebody in the thread at some point said: Or a rotating shake with axis long side: it looks completely different when device is upright, 45°, or flat (in fact this gesture isn't detectable at all in upright position, in the first place). Only correct way is to calculate real heading and velocity vector of device, as accurate as possible. Then accumulate a route, and this route you may ... With the two accelerometers, we can calculate the position(and the velocity) of the two accelerometers from a start point (position and velocity). But this is not enough to have the position of the whole phone in the space : we don't know the rotation movement along the axis defined by the two accelerometers. ... As we know that the relative position of the two accelerometers is fixed, it could help to detect calculation errors, and maybe correct them (a little...). The deal is they are place like this / -- top accel at 45 degree angle at top of board to left of transducer _ -- bottom accel unrotated to right of mic Both times pin 1 is towards the bottom left corner of the PCB. Regarding the work on a MPU, if I've understood what I've read on the mailing list archives, it's still just and idea, and the FreeRunner wont have one, am I right? Right. You have to use the main CPU there. For the GSoC, I think working on a simple library which uses the CPU would be already a good thing. (but we can work with the idea in mind that the code will need to be ported for a MPU). Absolutely. The library could provide two things : * the recognition of typical gestures * the position and velocity evolutions in time Maybe it makes sense to put this functionality into the Interrupt service routine. Because if we stay with raw accel data, the userspace app blocking on /dev/input/event* can also woken at ~100Hz or so I guess and it is not a great way for power saving. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH6S29OjLpvpq7dMoRAqmXAJ48xuxBbqGki3lhXgaBiJmMDWIKrACfRsJQ YvMkuZSmcDaWP1Pui0kv648= =r5u8 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
T9 code and iphone off topic question
Hi I would like to know if there is some code in openmoko repository implementing T9 like input method. And if you know some pointers to start prgramming with the iphone. My idea is to write a T9 like system for the iphone and than reuse, and share the code from openmoko project. I have looked in forge but there isn't any code there. Many thanks! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: video/graphics on GTA02
rakshat hooja wrote: I had three specific questions - 1) will 30 fps VGA res playback be possible? 2) will it be possible to have 2d transition effects (like MAC OS/ Vista) be possible on the GUI without noticiable wait times. 3) Is any form of 3D acceleration support possible in the future for games? Which of course leads to question #4: Can it run Quake ;-) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GSoC volunteer (as student)
Hi Patryk, basically the idea is that you come up with something you'd like to work on during this summer of code. The list on the wiki is just something we think would be interesting, by no means complete. So the first step is try to come up with a proposal (you may want to see the guidelines for SoC students from google and check back with some projects from the previous years from other organizations) and submit it to Google. Then, the mentors help you to refine this proposal and rank it. :M: ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: video/graphics on GTA02
2008/3/25, Hans L [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Which of course leads to question #4: Can it run Quake ;-) And Tuxracer! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Price of the Freerunner spare parts
Thomas, The logistical difficulty in stocking distributors with spare parts is a very large uncertainity. The fundamental problem is having a spare parts usage model. or consumption model. That is, a model, an estimate, of how many parts to spare. This comes with time and experience. In the beginning people always guess wrong. It also requires estimates of repair costs which no one has. If I had to guess, based on my experience with other products, I would say that the cost of shipping, parts,and repair would exceed the replacement costs in a substantial number of cases. But onto your specifics: 1. Batteries. We will have a Battery replacement that you can purchase without coming back to us or our disty. The replacements will be standard parts. 2. Stylus. again, we are going the open route. Nothing proprietary about our stylus. 3. Front and back covers? I would no clue whatsoever how many to sell to disty. and what would he do with the unsold ones? I suppose I could offer bags of plastic parts for sale on the web, but its a huge amount of trouble for very little benefit. 4. Headsets. Its a standard part. 5. Pouches: there are plenty of third party suppliers of these. 6. Charger. I have also pushed for a standard charger. basically so guys can use stock USB chargers. If I put Spare parts at the Hub, The cost of shipping them back and forth and the uncertainty in demand would force me to price a spare screen, for example, at the cost of phone. Why, because a spare screen in the hub does no good if it goes unsold. How long do I keep it there? in the factory, I turn it into a phone. Sitting in the hub, its a doorstop. Who pays to keep it there? Do I spare 10%, what if only 5% get used. Who owns the leftover screens? do I pass those costs on everyone? Steve _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of thomasg Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 6:17 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Price of the Freerunner spare parts I think spare parts are things that should be available via the distributors. 1. What: there are some parts everybody needs to replace or restock at some point: battery (very important), stylus (not really important), front/back-cover (moderately important), headsets, pouches, cables/chargers (reasonably important) 2. How many: see importance (1.) for relative numbers 3. Bigger stocks for distributors, no direct selling in small numbers 4. Make it cheap :P 5. Same as (3.) I guess there are many people who need at least spare batteries and some who'd like to have extra pouches (me! :), so this are things that should be offered to the customers. The effort and prices can be reasonable by only selling larger numbers. Additional spare parts like displays, antennas and so on could be available in smaller number at the local hubs, so resellers can get it for their customers if really needed. On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 12:00 AM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I thought about spare parts a while back. The Issue is this. 1. WHAT do I stock ( which parts) 2. How Many do I stock? 3. How do I sell them to you? 4. What will it cost? 5. how do you get them? I suppose I could Offer component kits for sale. That would be the quickest thing for me to do. Sell the whole bag of parts; fix it your self. or build a business around this service. Let me think about it. Throw rotten fruit at this idea if you like. Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of joerg Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 8:44 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Price of the Freerunner spare parts Am So 23. März 2008 schrieb Sean Moss-Pultz: We will have our own hub in the EU. Neos will move directly from our factory to that hub. What's about availability and pricing of spare parts like LCM, battery, housing? Will there be any repair service? cheers jOERG ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Price of the Freerunner spare parts
On Batteries. The battery should be a commodity. as easy to purchase as a AA at your local shop or over the web. So, I've asked Engineering to supply me with a list of replacement batteries that anybody can go out and buy from their local shop or the web. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marcus Bauer Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 8:40 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: RE: Price of the Freerunner spare parts On Mon, 2008-03-24 at 16:00 -0700, steve wrote: I thought about spare parts a while back. The Issue is this. 1. WHAT do I stock ( which parts) batteries 2. How Many do I stock? thousands ;-) 3. How do I sell them to you? via the resellers 4. What will it cost? free as in beer :°) 5. how do you get them? by postal service :) I suppose I could Offer component kits for sale. That would be the quickest thing for me to do. Sell the whole bag of parts; fix it your self. or build a business around this service. Let me think about it. Throw rotten fruit at this idea if you like. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Price of the Freerunner spare parts
Interesting, Which country? how is the list of spare parts determined? A simple question. If you sell a flashlight that takes standard batteries must you hold a stock of 3 years of spare batteries for all your customers? Or if you sell a car must hold 3 years of spare tires in stock for all the customers? If you sell a Lamp, do you hold 3 years of light bulbs as spares? basically, this goes to the definition of spare part. Im curious how they define it. Steve _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ofek Doron [Ofek BIZ] Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 1:12 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Price of the Freerunner spare parts Hi Steve, There is a different between countries. It's a legal (rules and regulations) issue. in my county you can not seal a devises without the ability to seal spare parts. The regulator must to make sure that you have the ability to support the costumers (include hardware maintenance and support) its mean that any distributor / reseller need to hold a spare parts in stock (or to make sure that he have a continuous supply of spare parts) for 3 years after the date the costumer buy a device . - doron steve wrote: I thought about spare parts a while back. The Issue is this. 1. WHAT do I stock ( which parts) 2. How Many do I stock? 3. How do I sell them to you? 4. What will it cost? 5. how do you get them? I suppose I could Offer component kits for sale. That would be the quickest thing for me to do. Sell the whole bag of parts; fix it your self. or build a business around this service. Let me think about it. Throw rotten fruit at this idea if you like. Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of joerg Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 8:44 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Price of the Freerunner spare parts Am So 23. März 2008 schrieb Sean Moss-Pultz: We will have our own hub in the EU. Neos will move directly from our factory to that hub. What's about availability and pricing of spare parts like LCM, battery, housing? Will there be any repair service? cheers jOERG ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- http://www.ofek.biz P Save a tree...please don't print this e-mail image001.gif___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Price of the Freerunner spare parts
Wolfgang Spraul wrote: There are lots of clones of these Nokia batteries, we bought a few and can give you the names. But basically anything BL-4C, BL-5C, BL-6C compatible should work. Just my $0.02 here, but: *Should* work, or *definitely* work? I'd rather not buy a 'maybe' battery and would rather buy a branded battery direct from OM... But if enough people test these BL-?C batteries and prove they work just fine and nobody has any incidents related to a Nokia battery, then okay, I'll look for a local vendor selling them if I need a spare battery. I ran into the same issue with my iRiver digital music player, I needed a replacement, but iRiver didn't make this model any more so after-market batteries were all that were left. In the end, an iPod replacement battery did the job, but the polarity on the jumper header needed to be switched before plugging it in and reassembling the case. I only ordered the battery once I'd read about 20 personal accounts that, yeah, this particular battery worked just fine, no incidents. Just the 'realist' in me coming out to play. :o) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: video/graphics on GTA02
Or simply clutter... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: video/graphics on GTA02
Hans L wrote: 3) Is any form of 3D acceleration support possible in the future for games? Which of course leads to question #4: Can it run Quake With accelerometer gestures instead of a joystick! -- -- Dirk Bergstrom [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://otisbean.com/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Price of the Freerunner spare parts
Am Mi 26. März 2008 schrieb ian douglas: Wolfgang Spraul wrote: There are lots of clones of these Nokia batteries, we bought a few and can give you the names. But basically anything BL-4C, BL-5C, BL-6C compatible should work. Just my $0.02 here, but: *Should* work, or *definitely* work? I'd rather not buy a 'maybe' battery and would rather buy a branded battery direct from OM... AFAIK, the BL-?C will fit and power the device, but like bat for GTA01 they have no telemetry (smart bat). So you won't get a bat-fuel-indicator with nokia bat. Charging isn't quite tested i think. jOERG ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Price of the Freerunner spare parts
National warranties aside (I'm a libertarian...) I see certifying aftermarket accessories as a crucial step for Openmoko, or at the v ery least picking ONE that works well with a Neo/Freerunner device. I recently purchased an iGo charger in the USA that claimed it could charger a 100, 500 or 1000 mA device and it can't. :P I'm out $40, which isn't crucial to me, but it's a sum that is large enough to regret paying when a $10 charger would be equally effective. I don't want to veer too far off topic but third-party accessories and battery life are directly tied IMO. As long as the battery life suck on the Neo/Freerunner people will need chargers for the device, and as long as a working fast-charge charger doesn't exist, it will be construed as bad planning. -Kevin Dean On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 11:18 PM, ian douglas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wolfgang Spraul wrote: There are lots of clones of these Nokia batteries, we bought a few and can give you the names. But basically anything BL-4C, BL-5C, BL-6C compatible should work. Just my $0.02 here, but: *Should* work, or *definitely* work? I'd rather not buy a 'maybe' battery and would rather buy a branded battery direct from OM... But if enough people test these BL-?C batteries and prove they work just fine and nobody has any incidents related to a Nokia battery, then okay, I'll look for a local vendor selling them if I need a spare battery. I ran into the same issue with my iRiver digital music player, I needed a replacement, but iRiver didn't make this model any more so after-market batteries were all that were left. In the end, an iPod replacement battery did the job, but the polarity on the jumper header needed to be switched before plugging it in and reassembling the case. I only ordered the battery once I'd read about 20 personal accounts that, yeah, this particular battery worked just fine, no incidents. Just the 'realist' in me coming out to play. :o) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Price of the Freerunner spare parts
On Wed, 26 Mar 2008, Wolfgang Spraul wrote: This is pretty much finished on my end. Nokia BL-6C. Allen Lin did tests (we could only get BL-5C so far, also works). There are lots of clones of these Nokia batteries, we bought a few and can give you the names. But basically anything BL-4C, BL-5C, BL-6C compatible should work. Wolfgang on the GTA01v4 they work but will not charge. Is it different on FReeRunner? clare ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Price of the Freerunner spare parts
Am Mi 26. März 2008 schrieb clare: On Wed, 26 Mar 2008, Wolfgang Spraul wrote: This is pretty much finished on my end. Nokia BL-6C. Allen Lin did tests (we could only get BL-5C so far, also works). There are lots of clones of these Nokia batteries, we bought a few and can give you the names. But basically anything BL-4C, BL-5C, BL-6C compatible should work. Wolfgang on the GTA01v4 they work but will not charge. Is it different on FReeRunner? They *might* charge better in GTA02 (i guess not tested yet), and they won't deliver same telemetry you get from GTA02's smart-bat coloumb-counter (see wiki). jOERG ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
