Re: [Gta04-owner] Status GTA04 GroupTour
2011/12/29 Neal H. Walfield n...@walfield.org: First, if someone orders a GTA04, that person doesn't get all the hardware--that person needs to have a GTA01 or GTA02 and do some non-trivial assembly. I realize that you have some cases that you are selling, which is the route that I went, but I think these are limited and independent of the group tour. If this option hadn't been available, I would not have signed up for a GTA04. In my opinion the GTA02 requirement is the unfortunate limiting factor (in additition to lack of publicity, but it perhaps wouldn't help to enough extent with the GTA02 requirement). That, and the fact that many GTA02 buyers are not _that_ interested in GTA04 as they could and should be. This is just speculation, but I believe that since FreeRunner was well advertised, too well from some perspectives, it was bought by many people expecting a working phone out-of-the-box, freedom issues important but secondary. They got disappointed over a long period of problems, and possibly lost their hope for similar free phone efforts since Om Inc also stopped phone business and years passed. Another big part of the FreeRunner owners are people interested in general in cool hackable devices, and in 2008 FreeRunner was IMHO easily the coolest hackable and own OS installable mobile computer device in existence. The freedomness was a plus but not necessarily the driving factor for the big mass of FreeRunner buyers. Now there is a multitude of cool hackable devices - Pandaboard, Raspberry Pi and many others, in addition to mainstream phone devices like at least Nokia N9 which also can be run with alternative OS like Mer/Nemo(/SHR/Debian), while the default OS is very hackable Debianish GNU/Linux as well. They are free enough for many of the original FreeRunner buyers, I'd believe. Both of these groups, I think, have the majority of currently available GTA02:s ie. the target group for GTA04 buyers, but the devices are possibly sleeping in the drawers while a lot of other cool hacker devices are out there. GTA04 is just one another option, and it has the minus side of not being the coolest gadget of 2012, unless you are interested in precisely 100% free software phone, while the GTA02 interest group who also ended up buying GTA02 was larger. The GTA02 case was also kind of cool or at least ok in 2008, but nowadays to make similar wow effect you'd need GTA04 to be not just an expensive motherboard upgrade to an used and old pretty bulky external case from 2008. And as mentioned, still a few people also have FreeRunner as a functional, primary phone, and they can't risk it. I have two FreeRunners and also N9 so I could risk mine and ordered a piece of GTA04 group order of course. Also notable is that I didn't even consider doing the motherboard upgrade myself, but ordered the service from Golden Delicious. The various marketing ideas seem great, since GTA04 is a _really_ cool device for many user/hacker groups. I just fear the GTA02 requirement problem doesn't go away since it's very hard to reach current GTA02 owners so that they could eg. pass their GTA02 on if they're not interested themselves of buying GTA04. -Timo (btw: I can let go of my other FreeRunner, GTA02a5, for just postage costs + eg. 10/15€ extra if it helps to get another GTA04 buyer. It has a slight screen related problem which shouldn't cause too much grief though: it requires a small plastic piece to be in place between screen and case that adds a bit of pressure so that touch works fluently - but it has been working nicely for over a year after I discovered the workaround. you can also of course just order a new screen together with GTA04) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko Community Survey 2011 – Results
froyo can't be considered stable (at least as a stable release of a linux distro). However, I use the nand version as my daily phone, knowing some troubles can occur, but without too many problems. Speed for froyo is not its strong point, but it is acceptable if you don't ask to play Call of Duty... Developers are working hard on it and are getting big improvements, but don't ask (for the moment) to get something like a froyo on a samsung galaxy! If you prefer a faster system, try cupcake. urodelo On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 22:21:49 +0100, Alishams Hassam alishams.has...@gmail.com wrote: A status update to the community list every now and then would actually be really awesome and go a long way into reminding me to try it. Even just a few months ago, the latest version of Froyo was really slow and crashed more than was acceptable. On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 4:50 AM, Niels Heyvaert nielsheyva...@hotmail.comwrote: Why is AoF is not even mentioned in the distro list is a mystery to me. Believe we should pollute this list more often with pure AoF related topics to keep reminding people it also exists ;-) Niels -- Microsoft gives you windows, Linux gives you the whole house. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- 用斯斯！ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko Community Survey 2011 – Results
Niels Heyvaert nielsheyva...@hotmail.com writes: Why is AoF is not even mentioned in the distro list is a mystery to me. Believe we should pollute this list more often with pure AoF related topics to keep reminding people it also exists ;-) Yes, please do! The community is small enough as it is; we don't need every tiny fragment to have a separate discussion forum. Neil ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Marketing] Ideas / Plan
Great Thanks! Although i have some professional background in product management/marketing I simply have no time left to care for marketing... And marketing communication without a product is pointless. So I did devote my time mostly on getting the product into our hands. So if we find enough volunteers to take care of spreading the word outside of this community, this would be great for all of us. Nikolaus Am 30.12.2011 um 07:39 schrieb Alishams Hassam: Hello All, Firstly note that I am not a marketing expert by any means. I only wish to throw ideas out there and implement what I have time for. If there are any marketing experts on the list (heck, if you're even just interested), please speak up! The only experience you really need is the ability to write in your native language. I'm only familiar with English sources but anything will work. Let's coordinate efforts on the wiki, I'm sure Openmoko won't mind us piggybacking off their wiki ;p http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Marketing_GTA04 Things to mention: 1. The GTA04 *requires* an FR / NEO1974. This should serve as a request to get people who have these collecting dust, selling them online. Maybe this should be made more explicit? 2. The GTA04 has vastly improved on every area of the FR. 3. The GTA04 is made in a proper factory in the EU, and of quality parts, in small runs - hence the price tag. This will appeal to those of us who want things done right, not cheap. 4. Though there are non-free chunks, harm has been reduced as much as possible. Talking about how the wifi firmware has been isolated so it cannot interfere with the O/S is a great example. Areas to Attack: 1. Online and print magazines, news websites: We need to get the word out about the GTA04. I find myself agreeing with the claim that he GTA04 isn't well known about. This appeared on Slashdot early this month http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/11/12/01/1910213/openmokos-freerunner-rises-from-the-ashes No mention of a pre-order. There was an article in late July on the Salon blog: http://blog.slyon.de/2011/07/26/openmoko-gta04-is-getting-reality/ Phornix also did an article on Openmoko just a few days ago, but only one line about the GTA04 : People are not excited, so let's make some noise! There are many other tech news sites out there. Ars Technica comes to mind, Lifehacker and Make would get a kick out of the board switching procedure, Wired is an older popular magazine, Phoronix I'm sure will do one focused on the GTA04 and 2600 for the geeks who like print (someone please write a cool article for those guys - I promise you they'll publish it)! Jeez, I almost forgot to mention http://lwn.net/ Someone here, who has a good wire to www.linuxfordevices.com? Traditionally a press release is sent out. I've never written one before and don't particularly want to start with this. Is there anyone who has written one before? 2. Mailing lists of FOSS projects: This area cannot be done with a press release blast. Well it can, but I don't think the subscribers will appreciate spam. Ideally each of us can write a post about the GTA04 on any other FOSS lists we are on. I'll get the ball rolling with a post to the Debian user list soon.The other big relevant list to hit is the LXDE related mailing lists: lxde-list lxde-l...@lists.sourceforge.net, lubuntu-desktop lubuntu-desk...@lists.launchpad.net Plasma active could be another one, assuming it runs on the hardware, as with gnome-shell gnome-shell-l...@gnome.org Let's get a list of mailings lists going on a wiki page. 3. Free Geeks Free Geek's are organizations dedicated to ethical recycling. They are all independently run so let's gather a list of each one's main mailing list and start a discussion. Starting points include how replacing a board is much more ecological than full new cell phone. The challenges with such an approach, and perhaps how FOSS helps to ensure old devices see much more support than their counterparts. I'll be updating the wiki with some adresses as I collect them. For now, Free Geek Vancouver: fg-gene...@lists.freegeekvancouver.org 4. Hack Spaces Hackers love linux and tinkering! We can organize with Hack Spaces to help less hardware oriented users like myself with supervision/teaching of the board swap. I'll also be adding them to the wiki, please help collect addresses if you're too shy to post. Vancouver Hack Space: vhs-gene...@lists.hackspace.ca 5. LUGS Linux User Groups are *not* dead. They're less active than they used to be, however at Linux Con North America, the president of the CLUG (Calgary LUG), gave a speech and is trying to reinvigorate things. This is usually full of people who have disposable income and love to have cool geeky things. The VanLUG address van...@robomod.net 6. Kickstarter / similar services Perhaps funding for a case
Re: Openmoko Community Survey 2011 – Results
Am 30.12.2011 um 14:14 schrieb Neil Jerram: Niels Heyvaert nielsheyva...@hotmail.com writes: Why is AoF is not even mentioned in the distro list is a mystery to me. Believe we should pollute this list more often with pure AoF related topics to keep reminding people it also exists ;-) Yes, please do! The community is small enough as it is; we don't need every tiny fragment to have a separate discussion forum. ++ Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Marketing] Ideas / Plan
On Thursday 29 December 2011 22:39:01 Alishams Hassam wrote: Things to mention: 1. The GTA04 *requires* an FR / NEO1974. This should serve as a request to get people who have these collecting dust, selling them online. Maybe this should be made more explicit? This isn't strictly true. The FR/Neo1974 is certainly the easiest way to get screen, case, antennae, speakers, vibro-motor etc. but suitable parts can be sourced separately and a case made. It may be worth supplying a list of suitable alternative parts and sources, or even a parts kit, to make it easier for people without a donor phone. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Marketing] Ideas / Plan
Hi, I have a GTA02 which I am using only for NeronGPS. I need a mobile for a few calls and SMS a month. Some months ago it did not receive an SMS and I have no idea why. I bought a 20€ Samsung phone, put the chip in, and got the SMS. So, why should I be excited to buy a GTA04 for the price tag of a full android? I don't even know if I will be able to reliably receive the occasional SMS? Just a question, no ranting. BTW, I don't think it makes much sense to invest in marketing without a full product. It seems a too expensive proposition for a small market of GTA02 and without high confidence of still getting a reliable phone. Regards, Fernando On Dec 30, 2011 06:39 Alishams Hassam alishams.has...@gmail.com wrote: Hello All, Firstly note that I am not a marketing expert by any means. I only wish to throw ideas out there and implement what I have time for. If there are any marketing experts on the list (heck, if you're even just interested), please speak up! The only experience you really need is the ability to write in your native language. I'm only familiar with English sources but anything will work. Let's coordinate efforts on the wiki, I'm sure Openmoko won't mind us piggybacking off their wiki ;p http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Marketing_GTA04 Things to mention: 1. The GTA04 *requires* an FR / NEO1974. This should serve as a request to get people who have these collecting dust, selling them online. Maybe this should be made more explicit? 2. The GTA04 has vastly improved on every area of the FR. 3. The GTA04 is made in a proper factory in the EU, and of quality parts, in small runs - hence the price tag. This will appeal to those of us who want things done right, not cheap. 4. Though there are non-free chunks, harm has been reduced as much as possible. Talking about how the wifi firmware has been isolated so it cannot interfere with the O/S is a great example. Areas to Attack: 1. Online and print magazines, news websites: We need to get the word out about the GTA04. I find myself agreeing with the claim that he GTA04 isn't well known about. This appeared on Slashdot early this month http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/11/12/01/1910213/openmokos-freerunne r-rises-from-the-ashes No mention of a pre-order. There was an article in late July on the Salon blog: http://blog.slyon.de/2011/07/26/openmoko-gta04-is-getting-reality/ http://blog.slyon.de/2011/07/26/openmoko-gta04-is-getting-reality/%20 Phornix http://www.phoronix.com/ also did an article http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_itempx=MTAzNDE on Openmoko just a few days ago, but only one line about the GTA04 : People are not excited, so let's make some noise! There are many other tech news sites out there. Ars Technica http://arstechnica.com/comes to mind, Lifehacker http://lifehacker.com/ and Make http://makezine.com/ would get a kick out of the board switching procedure, Wired is an older popular magazine, Phoronix http://www.phoronix.com/ I'm sure will do one focused on the GTA04 and 2600 http://www.2600.com/for the geeks who like print (someone please write a cool article for those guys - I promise you they'll publish it)! Jeez, I almost forgot to mention http://lwn.net/ Traditionally a press release is sent out. I've never written one before and don't particularly want to start with this. Is there anyone who has written one before? 2. Mailing lists of FOSS projects: This area cannot be done with a press release blast. Well it can, but I don't think the subscribers will appreciate spam. Ideally each of us can write a post about the GTA04 on any other FOSS lists we are on. I'll get the ball rolling with a post to the Debian user list soon.The other big relevant list to hit is the LXDE related mailing lists: lxde-list lxde-l...@lists.sourceforge.net, lubuntu-desktop lubuntu-desk...@lists.launchpad.net Plasma active could be another one, assuming it runs on the hardware, as with gnome-shell gnome-shell-l...@gnome.org Let's get a list of mailings lists going on a wiki page. 3. Free Geeks Free Geek's are organizations dedicated to ethical recycling. They are all independently run so let's gather a list of each one's main mailing list and start a discussion. Starting points include how replacing a board is much more ecological than full new cell phone. The challenges with such an approach, and perhaps how FOSS helps to ensure old devices see much more support than their counterparts. I'll be updating the wiki with some adresses as I collect them. For now, Free Geek Vancouver: fg-gene...@lists.freegeekvancouver.org 4. Hack Spaces Hackers love linux and tinkering! We can organize with Hack Spaces to help less hardware oriented users like myself with supervision/teaching of the board swap. I'll also be adding them to the wiki, please help collect addresses if you're too shy to post. Vancouver Hack Space: vhs-gene...@lists.hackspace.ca 5.
Re: [Marketing] Ideas / Plan
El día Friday, December 30, 2011 a las 01:43:12PM +, Fernando escribió: BTW, I don't think it makes much sense to invest in marketing without a full product. It seems a too expensive proposition for a small market of GTA02 and without high confidence of still getting a reliable phone. I strongly disagree. Most of the times Marketing is done by companies without having a full featured product, sometimes even without having a product at all, but just an idea and just to test the market; I'm used to say to those markeing guys: Hey, I have the money here with me, can I take your gadget withme right now? :-) matthias -- Matthias Apitz e g...@unixarea.de - w http://www.unixarea.de/ UNIX since V7 on PDP-11, UNIX on mainframe since ESER 1055 (IBM /370) UNIX on x86 since SVR4.2 UnixWare 2.1.2, FreeBSD since 2.2.5 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Gta04-owner] [Marketing] Ideas / Plan
Am 30.12.2011 um 10:27 schrieb ri...@happyleptic.org: Talking about how the wifi firmware has been isolated so it cannot interfere with the O/S is a great example. If you are refering to how it was made impossible to replace the non-free firmware by a free one, then I wouldn't advertise this too loudly :) ??? It appears that there is a common misunderstanding about the GTA04 capabilities and WiFi firmware. Let me clarify at least for these two lists. You can always replace the libertas firmware. It is stored in /lib/firmware and loaded by the MMC/SDIO driver kernel module as soon as it identifies that the WiFi chip needs the libertas driver. What you are probably referring to was a proposal by RMS/FSF to isolate that in hardware for a special variant that FSF could endorse (maybe with a different name). There did no appear a volunteer to build a prototype and demonstrate that it is working, useful and improves freedom at all. Without a prototype, we can't even think about adding such a thing to hardware and give it to FSF for promotion. And, it was never intended to become part of the standard GTA04 which can live IMHO very well without a FSF endorsement, although an FSF endorsement would automatically give much more public attention. The better technological way was and is to write an open source replacement for the firmware and store it as usual in the file system. Unfortunately, that firmware discussion had gained its own life on some forums we don't read regularily and was based on assumptions and prejudices instead of ever asking the project team about the status... So the story was out and impossible to retract. So please help that others (outside the community) are correctly understanding this aspect. Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Re: [Marketing] Ideas / Plan
On Dec 30, 2011 13:53 Matthias Apitz g...@unixarea.de wrote: El día Friday, December 30, 2011 a las 01:43:12PM +, Fernando escribió: BTW, I don't think it makes much sense to invest in marketing without a full product. It seems a too expensive proposition for a small market of GTA02 and without high confidence of still getting a reliable phone. I strongly disagree. Most of the times Marketing is done by companies without having a full featured product, sometimes even without having a product at all, but just an idea and just to test the market; I'm used to say to those markeing guys: Hey, I have the money here with me, can I take your gadget withme right now? :-) matthias What would be the sales pitch then? An Arduino-like product for people to make their own custom mobiles? Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Marketing] Ideas / Plan
+1 We need to offer complete working smartphone before doing massive marketing to public. #1 mistake of Openmoko Inc. was unstable software stack, switching toolkits (GTK+, Qt, EFL) and hardware bugs. I think, we should provide stable and tested development platform (stable distribution, SDK and nice documentation), then write on various MLs and attract mobile developers, come up with some fancy product name (GTA04 is just codename) and then start broader marketing on various news websites. Best Regards, Martix Dne 30.12.2011 14:43, Fernando napsal(a): Hi, I have a GTA02 which I am using only for NeronGPS. I need a mobile for a few calls and SMS a month. Some months ago it did not receive an SMS and I have no idea why. I bought a 20EUR Samsung phone, put the chip in, and got the SMS. So, why should I be excited to buy a GTA04 for the price tag of a full android? I don't even know if I will be able to reliably receive the occasional SMS? Just a question, no ranting. BTW, I don't think it makes much sense to invest in marketing without a full product. It seems a too expensive proposition for a small market of GTA02 and without high confidence of still getting a reliable phone. Regards, Fernando On Dec 30, 2011 06:39 Alishams Hassam alishams.has...@gmail.com mailto:alishams.has...@gmail.com wrote: Hello All, Firstly note that I am not a marketing expert by any means. I only wish to throw ideas out there and implement what I have time for. If there are any marketing experts on the list (heck, if you're even just interested), please speak up! The only experience you really need is the ability to write in your native language. I'm only familiar with English sources but anything will work. Let's coordinate efforts on the wiki, I'm sure Openmoko won't mind us piggybacking off their wiki ;p http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Marketing_GTA04 Things to mention: 1. The GTA04 *requires* an FR / NEO1974. This should serve as a request to get people who have these collecting dust, selling them online. Maybe this should be made more explicit? 2. The GTA04 has vastly improved on every area of the FR. 3. The GTA04 is made in a proper factory in the EU, and of quality parts, in small runs - hence the price tag. This will appeal to those of us who want things done right, not cheap. 4. Though there are non-free chunks, harm has been reduced as much as possible. Talking about how the wifi firmware has been isolated so it cannot interfere with the O/S is a great example. Areas to Attack: 1. Online and print magazines, news websites: We need to get the word out about the GTA04. I find myself agreeing with the claim that he GTA04 isn't well known about. This appeared on Slashdot early this month http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/11/12/01/1910213/openmokos-freerunner-rises-from-the-ashes No mention of a pre-order. There was an article in late July on the Salon blog: http://blog.slyon.de/2011/07/26/openmoko-gta04-is-getting-reality/ http://blog.slyon.de/2011/07/26/openmoko-gta04-is-getting-reality/%20Phornix http://www.phoronix.com/ also did an article http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_itempx=MTAzNDE on Openmoko just a few days ago, but only one line about the GTA04 : People are not excited, so let's make some noise! There are many other tech news sites out there. Ars Technica http://arstechnica.com/comes to mind, Lifehacker http://lifehacker.com/ and Make http://makezine.com/ would get a kick out of the board switching procedure, Wired is an older popular magazine, Phoronix http://www.phoronix.com/ I'm sure will do one focused on the GTA04 and 2600 http://www.2600.com/for the geeks who like print (someone please write a cool article for those guys - I promise you they'll publish it)! Jeez, I almost forgot to mention http://lwn.net/ Traditionally a press release is sent out. I've never written one before and don't particularly want to start with this. Is there anyone who has written one before? 2. Mailing lists of FOSS projects: This area cannot be done with a press release blast. Well it can, but I don't think the subscribers will appreciate spam. Ideally each of us can write a post about the GTA04 on any other FOSS lists we are on. I'll get the ball rolling with a post to the Debian user list soon.The other big relevant list to hit is the LXDE related mailing lists: lxde-list lxde-l...@lists.sourceforge.net mailto:lxde-l...@lists.sourceforge.net, lubuntu-desktop lubuntu-desk...@lists.launchpad.net mailto:lubuntu-desk...@lists.launchpad.net Plasma active could be another one, assuming it runs on the hardware, as with gnome-shell gnome-shell-l...@gnome.org mailto:gnome-shell-l...@gnome.org Let's get a list of mailings lists going on a wiki page. 3. Free Geeks Free Geek's are organizations dedicated to ethical recycling. They are all independently run so let's gather a list of each one's main mailing list and start a discussion.
Re: [Marketing] Ideas / Plan
Am 30.12.2011 um 14:53 schrieb Matthias Apitz: El día Friday, December 30, 2011 a las 01:43:12PM +, Fernando escribió: BTW, I don't think it makes much sense to invest in marketing without a full product. It seems a too expensive proposition for a small market of GTA02 and without high confidence of still getting a reliable phone. I strongly disagree. Most of the times Marketing is done by companies without having a full featured product, sometimes even without having a product at all, but just an idea and just to test the market; I'm used to ^ This needs to have a different product selling very well, so that there is a big marketing budget available to burn. The other strategy is the one taken by Apple. They have a very low marketing budget compared to other companies. And the media are still happy to report every small move at no cost... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Marketing] Ideas / Plan
Marketing strategies can also be planned for two different targets: 1st: developers, skilled users, hackers, geeks, etc, etc. In this phase marketing is mean to publish, inform and possible sale the product to those interested in the above activities 2nd: once the product will be stable enough and usable for an average iphone user, then a marketing strategy could be planned to reach the big market. In my opinion, without the first, it would be much more difficult for our community to compete (ok, I know this is such a big word..) with mainstream products. IF the intention is really to get a phone comparable with other well known products, there's the need of something stable and usable, and this can be reached only with the mass help of developers testers, etc. But if they don't know about it... Mybe talking properly about marketing for the first phase isn't strongly right, however the meaning is to spread the voice, inform, publish to that target which could be interested at the beginning. Therefore I agree with Hassam when he talks about marketing strategies. I just wanted to point out something. imho, urodelo On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 15:09:10 +0100, Martix martix...@gmail.com wrote: +1 We need to offer complete working smartphone before doing massive marketing to public. #1 mistake of Openmoko Inc. was unstable software stack, switching toolkits (GTK+, Qt, EFL) and hardware bugs. I think, we should provide stable and tested development platform (stable distribution, SDK and nice documentation), then write on various MLs and attract mobile developers, come up with some fancy product name (GTA04 is just codename) and then start broader marketing on various news websites. Best Regards, Martix Dne 30.12.2011 14:43, Fernando napsal(a): Hi, I have a GTA02 which I am using only for NeronGPS. I need a mobile for a few calls and SMS a month. Some months ago it did not receive an SMS and I have no idea why. I bought a 20EUR Samsung phone, put the chip in, and got the SMS. So, why should I be excited to buy a GTA04 for the price tag of a full android? I don't even know if I will be able to reliably receive the occasional SMS? Just a question, no ranting. BTW, I don't think it makes much sense to invest in marketing without a full product. It seems a too expensive proposition for a small market of GTA02 and without high confidence of still getting a reliable phone. Regards, Fernando On Dec 30, 2011 06:39 Alishams Hassam alishams.has...@gmail.com mailto:alishams.has...@gmail.com wrote: Hello All, Firstly note that I am not a marketing expert by any means. I only wish to throw ideas out there and implement what I have time for. If there are any marketing experts on the list (heck, if you're even just interested), please speak up! The only experience you really need is the ability to write in your native language. I'm only familiar with English sources but anything will work. Let's coordinate efforts on the wiki, I'm sure Openmoko won't mind us piggybacking off their wiki ;p http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Marketing_GTA04 Things to mention: 1. The GTA04 *requires* an FR / NEO1974. This should serve as a request to get people who have these collecting dust, selling them online. Maybe this should be made more explicit? 2. The GTA04 has vastly improved on every area of the FR. 3. The GTA04 is made in a proper factory in the EU, and of quality parts, in small runs - hence the price tag. This will appeal to those of us who want things done right, not cheap. 4. Though there are non-free chunks, harm has been reduced as much as possible. Talking about how the wifi firmware has been isolated so it cannot interfere with the O/S is a great example. Areas to Attack: 1. Online and print magazines, news websites: We need to get the word out about the GTA04. I find myself agreeing with the claim that he GTA04 isn't well known about. This appeared on Slashdot early this month http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/11/12/01/1910213/openmokos-freerunner-rises-from-the-ashes No mention of a pre-order. There was an article in late July on the Salon blog: http://blog.slyon.de/2011/07/26/openmoko-gta04-is-getting-reality/ http://blog.slyon.de/2011/07/26/openmoko-gta04-is-getting-reality/%20Phornix http://www.phoronix.com/ also did an article http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_itempx=MTAzNDE on Openmoko just a few days ago, but only one line about the GTA04 : People are not excited, so let's make some noise! There are many other tech news sites out there. Ars Technica http://arstechnica.com/comes to mind, Lifehacker http://lifehacker.com/ and Make http://makezine.com/ would get a kick out of the board switching procedure, Wired is an older popular magazine, Phoronix http://www.phoronix.com/ I'm sure will do one focused on the GTA04 and 2600 http://www.2600.com/for the geeks who like print (someone please write a cool article for those guys - I promise you they'll publish it)! Jeez,
Re: [Marketing] Ideas / Plan
1. The GTA04 *requires* an FR / NEO1974. This should serve as a request to get people who have these collecting dust, selling them online. Maybe this should be made more explicit? This isn't strictly true. The FR/Neo1974 is certainly the easiest way to get screen, case, antennae, speakers, vibro-motor etc. but suitable parts can be sourced separately and a case made. It may be worth supplying a list of suitable alternative parts and sources, or even a parts kit, to make it easier for people without a donor phone. Or to make it possible to use the gta04 while keeping the old gta02 ! :) What I really would like to is a hardware shopping list + some sort of tutorial on how to make use of the gta04 as a dev board (not a working phone), much like one would use a beagleboard or pandaboard. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Gta04-owner] [Marketing] Ideas / Plan
-[ Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 02:56:50PM +0100, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller ] Am 30.12.2011 um 10:27 schrieb ri...@happyleptic.org: Talking about how the wifi firmware has been isolated so it cannot interfere with the O/S is a great example. If you are refering to how it was made impossible to replace the non-free firmware by a free one, then I wouldn't advertise this too loudly :) (... badly needed explanations ...) So please help that others (outside the community) are correctly understanding this aspect. Thank you very much for taking some time to clarify this issue. I will redirect people to this post whenever I heard about this again in the future. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Marketing] Ideas / Plan
On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 9:12 AM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com wrote: The other strategy is the one taken by Apple. They have a very low marketing budget compared to other companies. And the media are still happy to report every small move at no cost... ... which is because Apple is super secretive, so even rumors become big news. While this is a great strategy, it becomes difficult to achieve if you are trying to have everything open. What I think is lost in all of this is the question: Who is the intended customer? I've seen some people talk about linux geeks, etc etc. However, at least for the first rev of the GTA04, it's _hardware_ geeks, and hardcore ones at that, which is the focus. There are lots of unix-heads that would love a phone that is free-er then Android or Apple let you be. But having to buy a phone, then cannibalize it with another kit you buy? It's definitely outside the mainstream. Now, it's not that I don't want this project to succeed. I think it's a great cause -- I was one of the early GTA01 (neo) buyers. For me, I don't have time right now to assemble a Freerunner and a GTA04 to get a working phone with possibilities. I want the completed package, then end result. The neo was shipped with the slogan some assembly required, which gave you the right idea. I thought that it just needed a good software stack to make things great. (I still do). What might work is having people invest, rather then buy something. That's something I could wrap my head around. Make the open phone happen -- Invest now. Don't make it complicated or expensive. $10 in one 'block' kind of thing. Maybe 40 blocks would allow the investor to see a completed phone, if one was to ever be produced. Make the risks clear -- the open phone might never come to market, but if we get 5000 blocks sold, we then have the muscle to negotiate with the big boys. The issue here is what is in it for the little guy, and I'd be a bit fuzzy. 40 blocks gets a phone, but what if I buy 2? Do I get the use of a phone for a week? :P I also don't know the legal side of calling it an investment (rather then a donation or a purchase). But this would be simpler to market, and would have better funding potential then selling the kit. As an aside -- if I have extra cash, I might be willing to buy a kit or two -- but they would either end up as donations to others, or as a dust collector. So it's not that I'm not willing to put money into it. But I also realize that one or two more kits won't make this happen in isolation. Thanks ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Marketing] Ideas / Plan
On 12/30/2011 06:59 PM, Gerald A wrote: On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 9:12 AM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com mailto:h...@goldelico.com wrote: The other strategy is the one taken by Apple. They have a very low marketing budget compared to other companies. And the media are still happy to report every small move at no cost... ... which is because Apple is super secretive, so even rumors become big news. While this is a great strategy, it becomes difficult to achieve if you are trying to have everything open. What I think is lost in all of this is the question: Who is the intended customer? I've seen some people talk about linux geeks, etc etc. However, at least for the first rev of the GTA04, it's _hardware_ geeks, and hardcore ones at that, which is the focus. There are lots of unix-heads that would love a phone that is free-er then Android or Apple let you be. But having to buy a phone, then cannibalize it with another kit you buy? It's definitely outside the mainstream. Now, it's not that I don't want this project to succeed. I think it's a great cause -- I was one of the early GTA01 (neo) buyers. For me, I don't have time right now to assemble a Freerunner and a GTA04 to get a working phone with possibilities. I want the completed package, then end result. The neo was shipped with the slogan some assembly required, which gave you the right idea. I thought that it just needed a good software stack to make things great. (I still do). What might work is having people invest, rather then buy something. That's something I could wrap my head around. Make the open phone happen -- Invest now. Don't make it complicated or expensive. $10 in one 'block' kind of thing. Maybe 40 blocks would allow the investor to see a completed phone, if one was to ever be produced. Make the risks clear -- the open phone might never come to market, but if we get 5000 blocks sold, we then have the muscle to negotiate with the big boys. The issue here is what is in it for the little guy, and I'd be a bit fuzzy. 40 blocks gets a phone, but what if I buy 2? Do I get the use of a phone for a week? :P I also don't know the legal side of calling it an investment (rather then a donation or a purchase). But this would be simpler to market, and would have better funding potential then selling the kit. As an aside -- if I have extra cash, I might be willing to buy a kit or two -- but they would either end up as donations to others, or as a dust collector. So it's not that I'm not willing to put money into it. But I also realize that one or two more kits won't make this happen in isolation. Thanks ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community My thoughts too, set up a kind of micro credit, where people can lent money, lets say 100 euro, and with that money build the phones. Once the phones are made, more developers can develop different aspects of the phone and people will see the GTA04 become more mature. I think success stories with video clips on youtube will convince more people to buy a GTA04 then good stories on paper. And the microcreditters can either get their money back once all phones are sold, or can get a 110 euro discount when they buy a GTA04. Just my thoughts.. Kind regards, Ed PS i guess you must be Dutch to come up with a micro credit plan in west-europe ;-) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Gta04-owner] Status GTA04 GroupTour
On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 12:18:05PM +0100, Neal H. Walfield wrote: Hi, It seems to me that there are two problems. First, if someone orders a GTA04, that person doesn't get all the hardware--that person needs to have a GTA01 or GTA02 and do some non-trivial assembly. I realize that you have some cases that you are selling, which is the route that I went, but I think these are limited and independent of the group tour. If this option hadn't been available, I would not have signed up for a GTA04. Second, I think you are lacking publicity. I haven't seen an article about this on the news sites that I follow, such as lwn.net (did I miss it?). Given these two problems, I'd try to solve the first one before the second one (one only gets so many chances with the media...). I suspect that people who are buying a GTA04 at this stage are not looking to use it as a phone immediately--they probably want to hack on it. These people don't need a phone case. But, they do need an LCD to get the experience. My proposal would be to create a hackers package: a GTA04 board, LCD and a big bulky case that could be placed next to a workstation. Even better would be if there is a commitment to provide a case once it is ready (do you have a time frame for this?). I really like this idea. As someone who is using smartphone mostly only to open terminal and connect to home computer I would really prefer something with hw qwerty keyboard (like n900). So for me the biggest disadvantage of GTA02 was it's bigger case with high edge of display (harder to use touchscreen neer the edge) and lack of keyboard. Now I would have to sacrifice old GTA02 for GTA04 so I can get much better hw but still in not so great case (at least for me) and instead of 2 platforms to hack on I will have just 1 again. Would be great to have some plans for new case (I know that qwerty is much more difficult to manufacture and that you're already working on something). And if there is new case, will it use the same LCD from GTA02 (it there enough modules?) or will it use something else? In other words I would advertise GTA04 board more like base of completely new phone not as board upgrade for old one (GTA02). I know you can use GTA04 without LCD and case already, but for people who don't have GTA02 or don't want to sacrifice it yet, it's not an option to keep it that way forever, they want some vision of new phone. If there is LCD which will for sure fit in future case and if there is some promise that there will be new case (maybe even with qwerty kbd) I think that more people will buy board+LCD now to start playing with it and then complete their new phone with case after maybe 6 months, while still keeping their GTA02. Regards, -- Martin 'JaMa' Jansa jabber: martin.ja...@gmail.com signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Marketing] Ideas / Plan
Hi Gerald, Ed (I try to merge thoughts a little...) Am 30.12.2011 um 19:22 schrieb Ed Kapitein: On 12/30/2011 06:59 PM, Gerald A wrote: On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 9:12 AM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com wrote: The other strategy is the one taken by Apple. They have a very low marketing budget compared to other companies. And the media are still happy to report every small move at no cost... ... which is because Apple is super secretive, so even rumors become big news. While this is a great strategy, it becomes difficult to achieve if you are trying to have everything open. What I think is lost in all of this is the question: Who is the intended customer? Currently: those who own a GTA01 and GTA02 or are willing to give it away. There are approx. 18000 units out there waiting for a potential upgrade to a GTA04 board. And we just have 56 group tour orders within 6 weeks. This is 0,3 %... I've seen some people talk about linux geeks, etc etc. However, at least for the first rev of the GTA04, it's _hardware_ geeks, and hardcore ones at that, which is the focus. Not necessarily. The hardware is done and has almost been proven to work. There may be bugs inside we will learn about only in the future, but there is a core team to iron this out. Not the community nor the owner has to do that. The main complaint with the GTA01 and GTA02 was that the processor is very slow and the Glamo is crap. And, there is no UMTS. And it has no USB 2.0. Now we finally have the GTA04: a motherboard replacement just doing that with 800 MHz Arm-Cortex A8, 3D graphics accelerator, integrated DSP coprocessor, and 14 MBit UMTS. Ready to be used by the linux geeks... So it is a solution to the main complaints with the GTA01/02. There are lots of unix-heads that would love a phone that is free-er then Android or Apple let you be. But having to buy a phone, then cannibalize it with another kit you buy? It's definitely outside the mainstream. Only those who don't own a GTA01 or GTA02 yet have to buy something (either a used GTA01/02 or hopefully soon a case kit). All others don't really have a reason to keep their GTA01/02 and have a GTA04 in parallel. Now, it's not that I don't want this project to succeed. I think it's a great cause -- I was one of the early GTA01 (neo) buyers. For me, I don't have time right now to assemble a Freerunner and a GTA04 to get a working phone with possibilities. I want the completed package, then end result. The neo was shipped with the slogan This takes approx. 15 minutes. Rarely more. And we have an installation service if you don't want to DIY (I would appreciate if there will come up local resellers or hacking groups in your area). some assembly required, which gave you the right idea. I thought that it just needed a good software stack to make things great. (I still do). There is a lot of progress towards this. Neil Brown has almost everything working in a Linux 3.2 kernel. And QtMoko brings almost everything to the User Interface. So what is missing? Just some weeks of ironing out the final bugs. And more OS options to be ported. If the developers keep the speed (these activities did not start before October this year!), it will be perfect when the Group Tour devices are ready to ship... What might work is having people invest, rather then buy something. That's something I could wrap my head around. Make the open phone happen -- Invest now. Don't make it complicated or expensive. $10 in one 'block' kind of thing. Maybe 40 blocks would allow the investor to see a completed phone, if one was to ever be produced. Make the risks clear -- the open phone might never come to market, but if we get 5000 blocks sold, we then have the muscle to negotiate with the big boys. The issue here is what is in it for the little guy, and I'd be a bit fuzzy. 40 blocks gets a phone, but what if I buy 2? Do I get the use of a phone for a week? :P I also don't know the legal side of calling it an investment (rather then a donation or a purchase). But this would be simpler to market, and would have better funding potential then selling the kit. As an aside -- if I have extra cash, I might be willing to buy a kit or two -- but they would either end up as donations to others, or as a dust collector. So it's not that I'm not willing to put money into it. But I also realize that one or two more kits won't make this happen in isolation. Well, to me it looks as if you own a GTA01 that is not used? Maybe you could think about donating it to someone who urgently wants to have a new case for a GTA04? Thanks My thoughts too, set up a kind of micro credit, where people can lent money, lets say 100 euro, and with that money build the phones. Once the phones are made, more developers can develop different aspects of the phone and people will see the GTA04 become more mature. I think
Re: [Marketing] Ideas / Plan
On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 19:22:55 +0100 Ed Kapitein e...@kapitein.org wrote: On 12/30/2011 06:59 PM, Gerald A wrote: On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 9:12 AM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com mailto:h...@goldelico.com wrote: The other strategy is the one taken by Apple. They have a very low marketing budget compared to other companies. And the media are still happy to report every small move at no cost... ... which is because Apple is super secretive, so even rumors become big news. While this is a great strategy, it becomes difficult to achieve if you are trying to have everything open. What I think is lost in all of this is the question: Who is the intended customer? I've seen some people talk about linux geeks, etc etc. However, at least for the first rev of the GTA04, it's _hardware_ geeks, and hardcore ones at that, which is the focus. There are lots of unix-heads that would love a phone that is free-er then Android or Apple let you be. But having to buy a phone, then cannibalize it with another kit you buy? It's definitely outside the mainstream. Now, it's not that I don't want this project to succeed. I think it's a great cause -- I was one of the early GTA01 (neo) buyers. For me, I don't have time right now to assemble a Freerunner and a GTA04 to get a working phone with possibilities. I want the completed package, then end result. The neo was shipped with the slogan some assembly required, which gave you the right idea. I thought that it just needed a good software stack to make things great. (I still do). What might work is having people invest, rather then buy something. That's something I could wrap my head around. Make the open phone happen -- Invest now. Don't make it complicated or expensive. $10 in one 'block' kind of thing. Maybe 40 blocks would allow the investor to see a completed phone, if one was to ever be produced. Make the risks clear -- the open phone might never come to market, but if we get 5000 blocks sold, we then have the muscle to negotiate with the big boys. The issue here is what is in it for the little guy, and I'd be a bit fuzzy. 40 blocks gets a phone, but what if I buy 2? Do I get the use of a phone for a week? :P I also don't know the legal side of calling it an investment (rather then a donation or a purchase). But this would be simpler to market, and would have better funding potential then selling the kit. As an aside -- if I have extra cash, I might be willing to buy a kit or two -- but they would either end up as donations to others, or as a dust collector. So it's not that I'm not willing to put money into it. But I also realize that one or two more kits won't make this happen in isolation. Thanks My thoughts too, set up a kind of micro credit, where people can lent money, lets say 100 euro, and with that money build the phones. Once the phones are made, more developers can develop different aspects of the phone and people will see the GTA04 become more mature. I think success stories with video clips on youtube will convince more people to buy a GTA04 then good stories on paper. And the microcreditters can either get their money back once all phones are sold, or can get a 110 euro discount when they buy a GTA04. Just my thoughts.. Kind regards, Ed PS i guess you must be Dutch to come up with a micro credit plan in west-europe ;-) Perhaps Kickstarter[1] would be an option here. It's a crowdsource funded site where creative projects of many kinds, including open hardware[2], can get the funding needed to keep them alive. I'm not suggesting it's a panacea for all the hurdles involved but there are quite a few success stories. I think the OM community probably has an edge in competing for funding due to it's age and the fact that the new hardware already exists. It would be nice to see at the very least a 'hardware hacker kit' with the basics as suggested here by Neal: I suspect that people who are buying a GTA04 at this stage are not looking to use it as a phone immediately--they probably want to hack on it. These people don't need a phone case. But, they do need an LCD to get the experience. My proposal would be to create a hackers package: a GTA04 board, LCD and a big bulky case that could be placed next to a workstation. Even better would be if there is a commitment to provide a case once it is ready (do you have a time frame for this?). Eventually the project could graduate to a fully complete phone with a case based upon the old one or ideally a new case with a better LCD and qwerty keyboard. Brian [1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kickstarter [2]http://www.kickstarter.com/discover/categories/open%20hardware?ref=sidebar ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org
Re: [Gta04-owner] Status GTA04 GroupTour
I just got an idea. Maybe it is not very good, but I will mention it anyway. Imagine if the GTA04 board could be available for different cases, so that people owning a HTC could free their devices Maybe this is not feasible, but could increase the marked if done right. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Gta04-owner] Status GTA04 GroupTour
Hi Martin, Am 30.12.2011 um 20:01 schrieb Martin Jansa: On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 12:18:05PM +0100, Neal H. Walfield wrote: Hi, It seems to me that there are two problems. First, if someone orders a GTA04, that person doesn't get all the hardware--that person needs to have a GTA01 or GTA02 and do some non-trivial assembly. I realize that you have some cases that you are selling, which is the route that I went, but I think these are limited and independent of the group tour. If this option hadn't been available, I would not have signed up for a GTA04. Second, I think you are lacking publicity. I haven't seen an article about this on the news sites that I follow, such as lwn.net (did I miss it?). Given these two problems, I'd try to solve the first one before the second one (one only gets so many chances with the media...). I suspect that people who are buying a GTA04 at this stage are not looking to use it as a phone immediately--they probably want to hack on it. These people don't need a phone case. But, they do need an LCD to get the experience. My proposal would be to create a hackers package: a GTA04 board, LCD and a big bulky case that could be placed next to a workstation. Even better would be if there is a commitment to provide a case once it is ready (do you have a time frame for this?). I really like this idea. As someone who is using smartphone mostly only to open terminal and connect to home computer I would really prefer something with hw qwerty keyboard (like n900). So for me the biggest disadvantage of GTA02 was it's bigger case with high edge of display (harder to use touchscreen neer the edge) and lack of keyboard. Now I would have to sacrifice old GTA02 for GTA04 so I can get much better hw but still in not so great case (at least for me) and instead of 2 platforms to hack on I will have just 1 again. If you ever have tried to hack on a GTA04 you will love it as your single platform :) Would be great to have some plans for new case (I know that qwerty is much more difficult to manufacture and that you're already working on something). And if there is new case, will it use the same LCD from Well, there are external bluetooth keyboards for 39 EUR of approx. the same size as the GTA... This makes it quite impossible to develop a keyboard at comparable price. GTA02 (it there enough modules?) or will it use something else? Yes, the idea is to make a replacement case around the existing display and PCB. In other words I would advertise GTA04 board more like base of completely new phone not as board upgrade for old one (GTA02). That is not the idea behind the GTA04. It is designed as a motherboard upgrade and if we want to completely design a new phone it would be quite different. We simply have quite complex technical limitations. I know you can use GTA04 without LCD and case already, but for people who don't have GTA02 or don't want to sacrifice it yet, it's not an option to keep it that way forever, they want some vision of new phone. Currently we can't give that because we don't see how we can make a completely new device cheaper than one that reuses some parts. If there is LCD which will for sure fit in future case and if there is some promise that there will be new case (maybe even with qwerty kbd) I think that more people will buy board+LCD now to start playing with it and then complete their new phone with case after maybe 6 months, while still keeping their GTA02. That is what I don't understand - why would someone want to keep the GTA02 in operation... Either the GTA04 is so good that you don't need the GTA02 any more or you would not need a new GTA04 :) Well, we don't have enough devices out there to prove it, so I can understand that one hesitates to believe it. This is why we plan to demonstrate the GTA04 at FOSDEM (if we get a stand). Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Marketing] Ideas / Plan
Hi Nikolaus, On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 2:48 PM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com wrote: Am 30.12.2011 um 19:22 schrieb Ed Kapitein: On 12/30/2011 06:59 PM, Gerald A wrote: What I think is lost in all of this is the question: Who is the intended customer? Currently: those who own a GTA01 and GTA02 or are willing to give it away. There are approx. 18000 units out there waiting for a potential upgrade to a GTA04 board. And we just have 56 group tour orders within 6 weeks. This is 0,3 %... Well, 18000 is a pittance of the 4.6 billion cell phones, and a fraction of the 500,000 smart phones. Since part of the issue seems to be attracting numbers, I was thinking of ways to attract people who might otherwise might not be interested or be able to. For me, I don't have time right now to assemble a Freerunner and a GTA04 to get a working phone with possibilities. I want the completed package, then end result. The neo was shipped with the slogan This takes approx. 15 minutes. Rarely more. And we have an installation service if you don't want to DIY (I would appreciate if there will come up local resellers or hacking groups in your area). Does this 15 minutes require soldering skills? (I think it does). I personally am not averse to trying to solder -- it's something I want to learn more about. But your average linux geek probably doesn't want to. But they still might be enamored by the prospect of an open phone. Well, to me it looks as if you own a GTA01 that is not used? Maybe you could think about donating it to someone who urgently wants to have a new case for a GTA04? I actually do hack on it once in a while. I had written lots of primitive utilities for it, but never got it working as an actual phone. My thoughts too, set up a kind of micro credit, where people can lent money, lets say 100 euro, and with that money build the phones. Once the phones are made, more developers can develop different aspects of the phone and people will see the GTA04 become more mature. i guess you must be Dutch to come up with a micro credit plan in west-europe ;-) I'm not Dutch, but I like the idea of micro-funding, and I am aware of micro-credit. Well, the problem is not to get a credit to produce the devices in advance. My block system, which is really close to the micro-funding that someone referred to on Kickstarter. But what about this idea: Group Tour orders with partial payment. My idea/kickstarter would allow something like this -- here, let me give you some money, and return 'something' of value in the future. It allows even smallish donations -- in kickstarters case, they give you a keychain. I'd rather allow it to be used against a future product, like a complete phone. I guess you could sell power adapters for ~$10, which if people didn't top up you could give away. What do those of you think, who still hesitate to subscribe to the group tour to upgrade your existing GTA01 or GTA02? PS: Taking too much credit is what the Greek state did do wrong. They are no longer able to pay back neither the interest rates nor the credit without subscribing to another credit. The Group Tour is now advertising a price of 474Euro (approx $600CDN). For this, I'm getting some neat upgrade bits, and I have to pitch in my $300+ Neo. For this price, I could buy two non-open but complete iPads. It's just passing through the holidays and things are tight budget wise here, so I'm still waiting to see. However, I'd pledge $100 for a more complete device later, even though it might never get to completion. As for your Greek example -- almost every country in the world uses credit to finance their Government. And this goes for business too -- in one way or another, most businesses use credit. Politics aside, just as you have to manage how much power your chips consume, just as you manage the number and purpose of your chips, credit has to be used wisely. And wisely used, both chips and credit can yield wonderful results. My idea wasn't pure credit, though -- it was a kind of investment in a future device, rather then the kit of today. My thought process was to move the game forward, the kit is the first step, but the eventual phone is what people are after. If you let people pledge towards what they want, you can fund what you need to get there. I thank you for your ideas and response -- and I hope that we'll get your kit out the door, either with or without my idea. Thanks! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Gta04-owner] Status GTA04 GroupTour
On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 10:02:44PM +0100, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Hi Martin, Hi Nikolaus, Am 30.12.2011 um 20:01 schrieb Martin Jansa: On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 12:18:05PM +0100, Neal H. Walfield wrote: Hi, It seems to me that there are two problems. First, if someone orders a GTA04, that person doesn't get all the hardware--that person needs to have a GTA01 or GTA02 and do some non-trivial assembly. I realize that you have some cases that you are selling, which is the route that I went, but I think these are limited and independent of the group tour. If this option hadn't been available, I would not have signed up for a GTA04. Second, I think you are lacking publicity. I haven't seen an article about this on the news sites that I follow, such as lwn.net (did I miss it?). Given these two problems, I'd try to solve the first one before the second one (one only gets so many chances with the media...). I suspect that people who are buying a GTA04 at this stage are not looking to use it as a phone immediately--they probably want to hack on it. These people don't need a phone case. But, they do need an LCD to get the experience. My proposal would be to create a hackers package: a GTA04 board, LCD and a big bulky case that could be placed next to a workstation. Even better would be if there is a commitment to provide a case once it is ready (do you have a time frame for this?). I really like this idea. As someone who is using smartphone mostly only to open terminal and connect to home computer I would really prefer something with hw qwerty keyboard (like n900). So for me the biggest disadvantage of GTA02 was it's bigger case with high edge of display (harder to use touchscreen neer the edge) and lack of keyboard. Now I would have to sacrifice old GTA02 for GTA04 so I can get much better hw but still in not so great case (at least for me) and instead of 2 platforms to hack on I will have just 1 again. If you ever have tried to hack on a GTA04 you will love it as your single platform :) I hope I will, but old GTA02 board still has some value, similar my old Sharp Spitz which is still running and used from time to time. Would be great to have some plans for new case (I know that qwerty is much more difficult to manufacture and that you're already working on something). And if there is new case, will it use the same LCD from Well, there are external bluetooth keyboards for 39 EUR of approx. the same size as the GTA... This makes it quite impossible to develop a keyboard at comparable price. Yes I have one of these, but try to use it in a train for longer time, usually you have to hold keyboard with both hands to type with thumbs and then phone screen is too far in your lap or you try to hold phone closer to eyes while typing one hand with keyboard balancing in your lap - not so good for longer texts with lots of special characters :). GTA02 (it there enough modules?) or will it use something else? Yes, the idea is to make a replacement case around the existing display and PCB. In other words I would advertise GTA04 board more like base of completely new phone not as board upgrade for old one (GTA02). That is not the idea behind the GTA04. It is designed as a motherboard upgrade and if we want to completely design a new phone it would be quite different. We simply have quite complex technical limitations. Being able to reuse as much components from GTA02 is definitely big plus and works great for people who like GTA02 case. I'm just saying that maybe there is a lot of potentional customers which would be even more interested in GTA04 if they can expect to use it in different case later (even if the case is then for another 250e). I know you can use GTA04 without LCD and case already, but for people who don't have GTA02 or don't want to sacrifice it yet, it's not an option to keep it that way forever, they want some vision of new phone. Currently we can't give that because we don't see how we can make a completely new device cheaper than one that reuses some parts. If there is LCD which will for sure fit in future case and if there is some promise that there will be new case (maybe even with qwerty kbd) I think that more people will buy board+LCD now to start playing with it and then complete their new phone with case after maybe 6 months, while still keeping their GTA02. That is what I don't understand - why would someone want to keep the GTA02 in operation... For me it was mostly to keep GTA02 supported by SHR, but as I said before I still keep Spitz in operation even with more powerfull devices available to me e.g. N900 (maybe because of 3 extra rows of keys and all special characters on hw keyboard :)) Either the GTA04 is so good that you don't need the GTA02 any more or you would not need a new GTA04 :) Well, we don't have enough
Glamo and White
I wrote to White / Weiss in irc. He helped me alot. I played a bit with blitting and transperency on the glamo. Blitting with X worked fine, for transperency I need some nor / nand hacks with x it worked too. Could blit a 640 * 480 (all) with around 50-60 frames per second when i remember right. But the glamo can do it nativly and faster. And can do hardware scaling. This would speed up navit a lot and a few emulators like a gameboy / gameboy color emulator (transfering 160 × 144 is almost 4 times faster than transfer 320*480pixel). Would love to a scale and blit command :) rohezal ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
