Re: [Gta04-owner] GTA04-Custom: EAGLE schematics and board file blueprint for developing expansion/adapter boards
Coming back to the original message, is it possible for an averaged-skilled person to carry out the customisation of the GTA04 board to change the connector? Also, would it be feasible to make a GTA04 module that could be connected to external screens while powered, so that you could switch from tablet to phone? I just ask out of curiosity, but it would be fun to connect your phone to a large display in your car for easier sat nav, then take it back as a phone. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to bring forward the community?
well, I think you just have to look at the capabilities of IMAP5 to see that the next generations of phone/tablet will have 3D support, both for display and webcam (I think IMAP5 supports 2 webcam ports). So IMHO the big manufacturers are now focusing on including 3D instead of designing new concepts. About the choice of keyboard, from what I read on this thread I think that one of the main issue is the feedback. Touch keyboard give you a feedback via the feeling of the fingertips, so you don't need to focus your attention to it. Maybe using an audible 'clic' would be an alternative for touch screen keypads? or using an electric discharge to trigger the user's nerves :) (though this may lower the battery life...) Lionel On 1 March 2012 12:28, Wolfgang Spraul wolfg...@sharism.cc wrote: So what to use? Nothing to use... We should look for what comes after phones and tablets. What's next? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Dr Lionel Broche Aberdeen Biomedical Imaging Centre University of Aberdeen tel : +44 1224 553 206 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to bring forward the community?
On 03/03/2012 11:09 AM, Lionel Broche wrote: well, I think you just have to look at the capabilities of IMAP5 to see that the next generations of phone/tablet will have 3D support, both for display and webcam (I think IMAP5 supports 2 webcam ports). So IMHO the big manufacturers are now focusing on including 3D instead of designing new concepts. About the choice of keyboard, from what I read on this thread I think that one of the main issue is the feedback. Touch keyboard give you a feedback via the feeling of the fingertips, so you don't need to focus your attention to it. Maybe using an audible 'clic' would be an alternative for touch screen keypads? or using an electric discharge to trigger the user's nerves :) (though this may lower the battery life...) I guess all improvements on the soft keyboard are nice but keeping the screen free with a solidly attached keyboard like the N900 is incomparably much better. Put yourself in a queue for 3 hours while using email and browser under stress. Would the GTA04 fit in the case of a N900 and would it be unrealistic to buy the case from Nokia? Anyway, although the keyboard is an interesting discussion, I still think the main hurdle to increase de community and its involvement is the current price and the lack of a complete phone solution. Also, as pointed out by others, missing an SMS, as it happened to me with qtmoko (3.4?) is a major show-stopper. I think the current approach of marketing the hardware flexibility is a good one, albeit with a smalle market. I guess it could actually be more useful for industry than individuals, but the concept of designing a mobile to fit the specific needs of a company might be too unheard off, needing a bigger/smarter marketing effort. Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to bring forward the community?
On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 8:03 AM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.comwrote: Am 01.03.2012 um 13:28 schrieb Wolfgang Spraul: So what to use? Nothing to use... We should look for what comes after phones and tablets. What's next? Next generation phones and tablets :) As a consumer, it's a bit hard to distinguish between one generation and the next, though. In the past, it was easier -- upgrades from LCD to mono screens, from mono screens to color, from telephone keypads to qwerty. It's harder lately to distinguish, at a quick glance, a retina display from a regular one. It is difficult to develop something totally new. (My standard methapher: each revolution looks like evolution if you have a sufficiently distant point of view). I agree to a certain degree -- from a hardware point of view, at least. But it's pretty clear that the iPhone and iPad were dramatic shifts for smartphones and tablets. The iPhone brought new energy and enthusiasm to the smartphone market. There were a few big players already in this market, but Apple managed to change the direction of the market. The iPad brought tablets, which had languished for years, from being ignored to something that many people knew something about. Now, the hardware they used wasn't the greatest in each case -- it had and has lots of limits. But they had amazing software, and a vision for the customer of their device. They didn't end up inventing a new device, per se, but they did end up re-inventing it. To consumers, they are new devices, because they never saw the clunky windows tablets or older smartphones. For phones and tablets it means they will increase in screen resolution, increase in processing power and networking speed, increase in battery life, increase how easily they can be used. The last one is the most interesting since it includes both hardware and software. One thing is clear: Until a device is commercially successful, it has no chance to survive in the arms race that is commercial phone development. Things change too fast and cost too much to bring out a new rev every X months. Every hardware piece is a compromise, and I've been a close watcher on the sidelines when FIC/OM launched their phones. It's harder with a phone, because since almost everyone has one, everyone will have an idea about one. So, where does that leave us? I think it's simple -- we have to compete, at first, mostly in software. I held out lots of hope for this with the Neo and the Freerunner, but they had basic issues that made them a bit difficult to deal with. I do think there are markets that are out there that are unserved and underserved, where something with good software could flourish. I'm still not convinced your business model is the best approach. While it involves the least risk for all concerned, it feels to me like it's not working well. I gave you some thoughts earlier, and you had good points why your point of view was better. But, your current rallying point is to get to 40% of your goal, and that means that 60% remains. Don't get me wrong, I do hope your device gets built, and I intend to order when budget allows me ... but without some major donation, I'm not sure your timeline is feasible. Thanks, Gerald ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to bring forward the community?
--- On Sat, 3/3/12, Lionel Broche lionel.bro...@gmail.com wrote: Maybe using an audible 'clic' would be an alternative for touch screen keypads? or using an electric discharge to trigger the user's nerves :) (though this may lower the battery life...) Ah so you never tried fatfingershell :) Rafa PS. BTW, it uses four different sounds, so every key sounds different than its neighbors. And you have (if you want) a smooth vibration feedback as well. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Gta04-owner] GTA04-Custom: EAGLE schematics and board file blueprint for developing expansion/adapter boards
On Saturday 03 March 2012 10:00:27 Lionel Broche wrote: Coming back to the original message, is it possible for an averaged-skilled person to carry out the customisation of the GTA04 board to change the connector? Also, would it be feasible to make a GTA04 module that could be connected to external screens while powered, so that you could switch from tablet to phone? I just ask out of curiosity, but it would be fun to connect your phone to a large display in your car for easier sat nav, then take it back as a phone. Why not use a DisplayLink USB display like the touchscreens at [1]? You might even find a daylight readable one for the car. Not sure if GTA04 can charge while in host mode though - the docs suggest not but don't say explicitly. [1] https://newit.co.uk/shop/products.php?cat=16 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to bring forward the community?
sounds is a no-go. the only sound i tolerate is the one coming out of the earpiece/headset when making/recieving a call or listening to music. --- On Sat, 3/3/12, Lionel Broche lionel.bro...@gmail.com wrote: Maybe using an audible 'clic' would be an alternative for touch screen keypads? or using an electric discharge to trigger the user's nerves :) (though this may lower the battery life...) Ah so you never tried fatfingershell :) Rafa PS. BTW, it uses four different sounds, so every key sounds different than its neighbors. And you have (if you want) a smooth vibration feedback as well. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- -- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?
what's stopping me from subscribing for the GTA04 is simply the question, what to do with the innards of my disembowled GTA02. although the GTA02 as well as a new GTA04 would be litle more than a toy anyway, i shrink back from the idea to produce electronic waste just for fun. money isn't really an issue here, but i don't want to spend 750 euros for a complete new GTA04 i don't really have a practical use for. (but i would be willing to donate/add a couple of euros if it will help someone to buy a GTA04 who can't afford the full or even the rebated price) so, what do you group tour subscribers plan to do with the replaced parts? just sink them in the waste basket? hang on the wall? or do you have a meaningful solution? Therefore it is important to spread of the platform. Having 1 month left over for subscribing to the (extended) group tour is a good point to draw an intermediate view. This morning we now have 34% which is one third of the required number of units (for the given price). This is a good increment from the 23% or so we did have right before FOSDEM when we decided to extend the subscription time frame. So the next goal is to crack the 40%! One more thing: some 5% rebate seats are still available since some generous subscribers did choose no early bird rebate. BR, Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- -- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?
arne anka openm...@ginguppin.de wrote: so, what do you group tour subscribers plan to do with the replaced parts? just sink them in the waste basket? hang on the wall? or do you have a meaningful solution? Please please please don't waste them, please make them available to people like me who like GTA02 BETTER than GTA04 (for Calypso GSM firmware hacking reasons). One way to do that would be to ship the GTA02 PCBA back to Goldelico who will then save these parts for resale to the interested people. MS ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?
well, that's certainly an idea that didn'zt occur to me. but wouldn't support those reactionaries somehow defy the purpose of the GTA04 movement? ;-) otoh, if there's sufficient demand it could offer another source of funding. but if nikolaus is ok with that (re-stocking the used GTA02 boards, that is :-), that's certainly solution. two questions though: - what's so hackable about the calypso fw? as far as i recall, it was a major afford to get an updated fw and make it flashable. and how much less hackable is the new gsm chip's fw? - nikolaus: what about future fw updates for those closed parts like the gsm chip? not just new features but simple bug fixes? arne anka openm...@ginguppin.de wrote: so, what do you group tour subscribers plan to do with the replaced parts? just sink them in the waste basket? hang on the wall? or do you have a meaningful solution? Please please please don't waste them, please make them available to people like me who like GTA02 BETTER than GTA04 (for Calypso GSM firmware hacking reasons). One way to do that would be to ship the GTA02 PCBA back to Goldelico who will then save these parts for resale to the interested people. MS ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- -- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?
arne anka openm...@ginguppin.de wrote: but if nikolaus is ok with that (re-stocking the used GTA02 boards, that is :-), that's certainly solution. As I understand it, he already does that. - what's so hackable about the calypso fw? as far as i recall, it was a major afford to get an updated fw and make it flashable. Certain individuals in the Om community are holding personal copies of that firmware in semi-source form, or more precisely, in the form of object modules with full symbolic information (names of functions, global variables, etc) - not quite the same as full source, but pretty close in terms of hackability. Unfortunately the greedy bastards are refusing to share, hence extracting the ware from them requires the use of a soldering iron, inserted rectally. If anyone is willing to perform such an operation for the benefit of the community, I can supply the names of the suspects and my best available information as to their physical whereabouts. Alternatively, there exists the TSM30 firmware source: it's a different Calypso phone, and that code is full source and readily available from Cryptome.org and other sites. Unfortunately the TSM30 hardware has been very heavily modified from the Leonardo* baseline (whereas the GSM part of GTA02 is almost identical with Leonardo), hence backporting the TSM30 source to run on a Leonardo-style Calypso subsystem like GTA02 would take a lot more work than what we could do if we had the real GTA02 version of the semi-source. But the backport of the TSM30 to Leonardo/GTA02 does not seem impossible, just really difficult, and I am hoping to find the time some day to tackle that project - in my view, it is an ethically superior approach than OsmocomBB. [*] Leonardo is TI's reference design for the Calypso/Iota/Rita chipset; liberated Leonardo board schematics and chip docs for all components are on my public FTP site. There is also a possibility that someone in the People's Republic of China may have a copy of the same semi-source deliverable which FIC got from TI (that exact same deliverable or a very very similar one must have been given to *all* makers of Calypso-based feature phones), but who would be more open to sharing than the Om bastards. Any comrades in the PRC reading this, you know whom to email. and how much less hackable is the new gsm chip's fw? We shall only know if Nikolaus were to grow the b*lls to burn or shred his German passport, apply for citizenship in the Principality of Sealand, the Republic of New Poseidia or some other (micro)nation in which NDAs have no legal validity and in which all intellectual creations of every kind are automatically and unconditionally in the public domain, and publicly share all materials which he has received from the maker of whatever GSM/UMTS module he has used in the GTA04. If and when Nikolaus does the above, I shall gladly and immediately buy a GTA04 - but not till then. MS ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
