Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?
On Sunday 04 March 2012 12:51:08 arne anka wrote: (but i would be willing to donate/add a couple of euros if it will help someone to buy a GTA04 who can't afford the full or even the rebated price) myself and others in this list have made the same offer... that's very good to know. i didn't follow the development of sales too close (though close enough to finally convince me, i may want a GTA04, too ;-) - how many are there an how much additional GTA04 could we buy/fund in adavnce between us (if nobody takes up the offer)? - how well known is that to prospective buyers of limited funds? such an offer, however generous it may be, is of little use if potential users are not aware of it - i for one did not know about it, except the remark about 5% rebates still being available since several early subscribers did not claim it. There are a few places you can 'order' a donation, but I don't know how well known they are. http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=GTA04referer=GTA04-Early-Adopter http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Openmoko%3ACommunity ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?
On 03/05/2012 10:36 AM, Al Johnson wrote: There are a few places you can 'order' a donation, but I don't know how well known they are. http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=GTA04referer=GTA04-Early-Adopter http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Openmoko%3ACommunity The problem is that such a blind donations link is to vague and non-transparent. It's not an exciting rallying point for a community. Nikolaus, would there be a way to define a more concrete donation goal, eg., buying a specific batch of parts, that would help goldelico achieve the group order? Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Om2008.9] screen locking application?
On Sunday 04 March 2012 23:14:36 Andrey Mitroshin wrote: Hello, Is there some application for qtmoko to lock the device so nobody can get personal information from the device in the case device being lost or stolen? No - i think you would need to extend current qtmoko's lock screen or write alternative one. Regards Radek ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?
Hi Fernando, Am 05.03.2012 um 11:01 schrieb Fernando Martins: On 03/05/2012 10:36 AM, Al Johnson wrote: There are a few places you can 'order' a donation, but I don't know how well known they are. http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=GTA04referer=GTA04-Early-Adopter http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Openmoko%3ACommunity The problem is that such a blind donations link is to vague and non-transparent. It's not an exciting rallying point for a community. Yes this is a problem. These donations help to cover general cost e.g. of running servers, development and have been used to reduce the price a little. But future donations should not change the price of the group tour. But as far as I see the intention is that there are some community members who want to specifically donate. We already have some orders where someone did do a full reservation with open shipment address and there was some private mail discussions of providing more kernel developers with a device. So please specify here what you would do in return, if you would receive such a free unit. Then, the donators (who are following this list) can contact you directly. Nikolaus, would there be a way to define a more concrete donation goal, eg., buying a specific batch of parts, that would help goldelico achieve the group order? Yes, that is a good idea and can be technically done. The problem is that it is difficult to exactly track this. Let's assume someone donates 200 EUR, this would mean that we can reduce the group tour price by 200/350 EUR, i.e. 57 ct. This is quite difficult to calculate and translate into a real refund to everyone. And I think reducing the price for new incoming orders (each donation reduces the 499 EUR by some cents) only would't be fair to those who already have ordered. Although it would be the easiest to implement scheme. Or we buy a handful UMTS modules from the 200 EUR. But who gets those boards? We could also think about reducing by each donation the number of units we need. This would only benefit the distributors and others since get a compensation for lower quantities. Or should we do it that way, that every donated 25 EUR automatically converts a 499 EUR group tour seat into a 474 EUR one, and each 50 EUR donation changes a 499 EUR to a 449 EUR seat? This makes it a lottery if someone is fast enough to get such a new 449 seat. Basically it needs some funds where you (donators) can put in money and you (others) can take it to get a GTA04 effectively at a reduced price. And perhaps a trustee to manage the funds. IMHO the key aspect of a solution is: how do we find a fair scheme that price reductions by donations reach those who really need them (and not some free-riders)? Nikolaus PS: maybe another aspect should also be pointed out: we have a volume rebate in our calculation. I.e. if someone finds 4 others and orders 5 units in combination, there is 5% rebate and for 10 units it is 10% rebate. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Om2008.9] screen locking application?
On Monday 05 of March 2012 10:09:11 Radek Polak wrote: On Sunday 04 March 2012 23:14:36 Andrey Mitroshin wrote: Hello, Is there some application for qtmoko to lock the device so nobody can get personal information from the device in the case device being lost or stolen? No - i think you would need to extend current qtmoko's lock screen or write alternative one. Regards Radek BTW .. would it be possible to run TrueCrypt on FreeRunner? Zb. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?
On Mar 5, 2012 10:33 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com wrote: Hi Fernando, Am 05.03.2012 um 11:01 schrieb Fernando Martins: On 03/05/2012 10:36 AM, Al Johnson wrote: There are a few places you can 'order' a donation, but I don't know how well known they are. http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=GTA04referer=GTA04-E arly-Adopter http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Openmoko%3ACommunity The problem is that such a blind donations link is to vague and non-transparent. It's not an exciting rallying point for a community. Yes this is a problem. These donations help to cover general cost e.g. of running servers, development and have been used to reduce the price a little. But future donations should not change the price of the group tour. But as far as I see the intention is that there are some community members who want to specifically donate. We already have some orders where someone did do a full reservation with open shipment address and there was some private mail discussions of providing more kernel developers with a device. So please specify here what you would do in return, if you would receive such a free unit. Then, the donators (who are following this list) can contact you directly. Nikolaus, would there be a way to define a more concrete donation goal, eg., buying a specific batch of parts, that would help goldelico achieve the group order? Yes, that is a good idea and can be technically done. The problem is that it is difficult to exactly track this. Let's assume someone donates 200 EUR, this would mean that we can reduce the group tour price by 200/350 EUR, i.e. 57 ct. This is quite difficult to calculate and translate into a real refund to everyone. And I think reducing the price for new incoming orders (each donation reduces the 499 EUR by some cents) only would't be fair to those who already have ordered. Although it would be the easiest to implement scheme. I agree that reduction in prices is not the most interesting way to go. Donating mobiles to developers in exchange for specific software improvement looks like a good idea. The suggestion of targeting a specific batch of parts was not meant as a translation into price reductions. The current orders would also contribute their share to the batch. The suggestion was merely done in case there are components that must be ordered in a batch now to achieve important price reductions and other parts that could be bought on a as-needed basis. Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Om2008.9] screen locking application?
On Monday 05 March 2012 11:37:12 Hrabosh wrote: BTW .. would it be possible to run TrueCrypt on FreeRunner? It looks possible in theory. There are reports of it running on other arm platforms. Debian apparently don't package it for licensing reasons, but do have instructions for building and installing it. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Om2008.9] screen locking application?
Another approach would be to use a software like prey : http://preyproject.com/ [3] . There's a debian package : http://packages.debian.org/wheezy/prey [4] It would only be relevant if you have a permanent Internet connection. It periodically checks on a server if your machine has been reported as lost/stolen. If so, it can run several types of actions on the machine, including : - trying to geolocate it (based on the wifi networks it can reach) : might work on QtMoko - delete emails, stored passwords etc : might work if you modify the scripts to delete the files/directories you want - and many other features that probably won't work out-of-the-box on QtMoko (take a screenshot, lock the device, take a photo with a webcam etc) It sends these info to the server, or by email. I use it successfully on my netbook, with a private server. Maybe it would be worth trying it on QtMoko. It does not encrypt anything, but can at least delete sensitive information, and give you hints to find the phone. NB : note that there seems to be some criticisms on the security of prey : http://www.shrp.me/docs/dont_use_prey.php [5] Mossroy On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 11:02:16 +, Al Johnson wrote: On Monday 05 March 2012 11:37:12 Hrabosh wrote: BTW .. would it be possible to run TrueCrypt on FreeRunner? It looks possible in theory. There are reports of it running on other arm platforms. Debian apparently don't package it for licensing reasons, but do have instructions for building and installing it. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org [1] http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community [2] Links: -- [1] mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org [2] http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community [3] http://preyproject.com/ [4] http://packages.debian.org/wheezy/prey [5] http://www.shrp.me/docs/dont_use_prey.php ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?
It may not be that complicated, but it is morally wrong. It is morally wrong to help or support someone who is guilty of hoarding the good code and denying it to the public. so proprietary software(calypso source code is not free software) is morally good and free software(osmocombb and nuttx/nuttx-bb is free software) is morally wrong? And note that even if they had part of the source, and that's not enough. you want full source code and usually companies modifying the firmware basebands like openmoko don't have access to that. but osmocom-bb is maybe inefficent righ now(I'm working on fixing that ) but at least you have full source code of layer 1, layer 2, layer 3 you can do calls, sms etc...with it. you have even forks to detect if there are spying equipement connected to the network etc... you can get a real estimation of the RSSI and findout if the levels are too low and calling is dangerous... if you don't like contributing to osmocom-bb maybe you could contribute to fso and make it use osmocom-bb telnet interface for layer23? And about Harald Welte, you forget that he spent a lot of time studying GSM protocols, standards, writing the osmocom-bb code and he released that under a free software license with full source code, isn't that great? but you seem to prefer proprietary source code. Also, note that the non-free source code may be big, who would review it for backdoors? how would you compile it without non-free software? nobody would contribute to it etc... The only usefullness of proprietary source code is as a documentation to produce free source code. Denis. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?
I think there are several options. If you keep the display, you have a nice GUI device for experimentation with WLAN, Bluetooth, USB. And, the SPI/I2C interfaces are accessible on test points near the debug connector. well, i am no hardware guy, but just a humble application programmer. So a dismantled GTA02 is still a nice SoC-Evaluation kit. Could be donated to educational institutions, used in home control, make some funny digital photo frame, make it a wireless NAS server (well, a disk drive on USB1.0 is a little slow). Or you keep the GTA02 as it is and wait until we have the CaseKit finished (which is not very far away). how much would that be? i imagine, CaseKit + display + GTA04 board adds up to about the 750 € for a complete GTA04, wouldn't it? and anyway, i don't think, i would have much use for the GTA02, board or complete, once i got an GTA04. if nobody turns up with a good idea why s/he would need the board -- is it an option for you, Nikolaus, to keep the board once i send in the GTA02 to be made into a GTA04? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?
my idea of a donation was in the first place to get us nearer, my god to thee .. ehm .. nearer the 350 units required. ie in the first place to help people who can't afford the full price, since it would mean the most value for every euro donated. if that proves not feasible, the second best solution would to pay for units not (yet) sold -- and maybe give those away to developers. reducing the group tour price is not an option for me -- and certainly not without all 350 units being sold. and even then i'd donate to fund project infrastructure as proposed, the least effort would be applications for such donations would be brought forth on these lists -- then we could decide, who recieves a donation and how to proceed to make sure, it really is used to order a GTA04. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?
I'm not even going to bother with the good netiquette of not top-posting on this one so sorry if that offends you all. Michael, ... i don't think it makes much sense to dicuss his ... funny ideas further. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to bring forward the community? Group Tour Donations Hub
Am 05.03.2012 um 22:06 schrieb arne anka: my idea of a donation was in the first place to get us nearer, my god to thee .. ehm .. nearer the 350 units required. ie in the first place to help people who can't afford the full price, since it would mean the most value for every euro donated. if that proves not feasible, the second best solution would to pay for units not (yet) sold -- and maybe give those away to developers. reducing the group tour price is not an option for me -- and certainly not without all 350 units being sold. and even then i'd donate to fund project infrastructure as proposed, the least effort would be applications for such donations would be brought forth on these lists -- then we could decide, who recieves a donation and how to proceed to make sure, it really is used to order a GTA04. Essentially this calls for a page/list where people seeking a GTA04 but who can't afford it themselves write down their project ideas and those who want to donate can contact them. If they agree they can subscribe for a unit. I have prepared a Wiki page: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA04_Group_Tour_Donations_Hub So please start to fill it in and use it. Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?
Am 05.03.2012 um 21:59 schrieb arne anka: I think there are several options. If you keep the display, you have a nice GUI device for experimentation with WLAN, Bluetooth, USB. And, the SPI/I2C interfaces are accessible on test points near the debug connector. well, i am no hardware guy, but just a humble application programmer. So a dismantled GTA02 is still a nice SoC-Evaluation kit. Could be donated to educational institutions, used in home control, make some funny digital photo frame, make it a wireless NAS server (well, a disk drive on USB1.0 is a little slow). Or you keep the GTA02 as it is and wait until we have the CaseKit finished (which is not very far away). how much would that be? i imagine, CaseKit + display + GTA04 board adds up to about the 750 € for a complete GTA04, wouldn't it? We don't know the exact prices yet. and anyway, i don't think, i would have much use for the GTA02, board or complete, once i got an GTA04. if nobody turns up with a good idea why s/he would need the board -- is it an option for you, Nikolaus, to keep the board once i send in the GTA02 to be made into a GTA04? Yes, we already have a bunch of them (I hesitate to make a photo since this looks a little sad). Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Next Openmoko Stammtisch in Munich, Germany
for planning purposes, please notify your preferences: http://freeyourphone.de/portal_v1/viewtopic.php?f=71t=2234#p19431 Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to bring forward the community? Group Tour Donations Hub
On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 23:02, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com wrote: I have prepared a Wiki page: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA04_Group_Tour_Donations_Hub That's an excellent idea! I hope it gets used a lot! Christ van Willegen -- 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
