Re: [Android] Converting a brick into a phone
Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote: Am I completely daft or isn't the focus on FSO and Paroli et all precisely what you're whining about? If you have to whine, do so at serious problems like the White Screen of Death (which is now apparently solved, at least worksforme). There is a kernel image somewhere that doesn't go WSOD under any circumstances? Or just some patches? I would like to switch to 2.6.28 - much faster and the WIFI seems to work well. I never suspend so I don't know about WSOD on resume, but all 2.6.28/2.6.26 kernels I have tried tends to go white whenever I start a game that switch screen orientation. Duke nukem is impossible, numptyphysics may also fail to start. The screen is dead then, but not the phone. (ssh works) So I use old 2.6.24, which seems to work, but nothing is as snappy as with the newer kernels. Menus appear slower, games are slow and jumpy, there is generally more waiting. And forget the WIFI. But at least I have a useable phone with SHR. Helge Hafting ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Android] Converting a brick into a phone
Steve Mosher wrote: Hi Steve, A list on the wiki of all severe problems and the end user details would be great, especially for future reference. Some of the problems, like Buzz, 1024 (recamp) seem to happen to some people and not others. I never had the buzz problem, go figure. I've created the page. 1. problems: WSOD, recamp, Buzz, echo ( insert gripe) 2. End user data: a. email (optional) b. Date code on phone ( under battery) c. s/n d. p/n e carrier. f. 900Mhz or 850? g distro etc... The page links from http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_Hardware_Issues#Poor_Audio_Quality And you can find it here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Buzz_or_not Please ad fields if necessary anything else? It might be nice to know what band the phone is operating on ( 900/1800/1900) if that's possible. Tell me how I can find that info on the phone :) Steve Regards, Michel -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Android] Converting a brick into a phone
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 11:49:03AM +0100, Helge Hafting wrote: Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote: Am I completely daft or isn't the focus on FSO and Paroli et all precisely what you're whining about? If you have to whine, do so at serious problems like the White Screen of Death (which is now apparently solved, at least worksforme). There is a kernel image somewhere that doesn't go WSOD under any circumstances? Or just some patches? At https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1841 is a patch a pre-compiled kernel for FSO M4.1 The daily testing images already integrate this patch (AFAIK). Rui -- Or not. Today is Setting Orange, the 53rd day of The Aftermath in the YOLD 3174 + No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown + Whatever you do will be insignificant, | but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi + So let's do it...? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Android] Converting a brick into a phone
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: | On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 11:49:03AM +0100, Helge Hafting wrote: | Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote: | Am I completely daft or isn't the focus on FSO and Paroli et all | precisely what you're whining about? | | If you have to whine, do so at serious problems like the White Screen of | Death (which is now apparently solved, at least worksforme). | | There is a kernel image somewhere that doesn't go WSOD under | any circumstances? Or just some patches? | | At https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1841 is a patch a pre-compiled | kernel for FSO M4.1 | | The daily testing images already integrate this patch (AFAIK). Both stable and andy-tracking have the no deep sleep workaround from Nicolas Dufresne and so far no customer has told they saw a WSOD from blanking or suspend since using it. Something different (hopefully easier to figure out) is busted if there is a different WSOD now on game[s] that switch screen orientation. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAklA+SsACgkQOjLpvpq7dMpQYACeISV3xmboRixnCUDqr2EX7Q/7 zfoAoIAntTCpVGX06xyRzYBuQ00IBwY5 =BRP+ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Android] Converting a brick into a phone
I'm kinda confused here... is this buzz issue the one where the caller (not the neo) hears the GSM buzzing? The one that has a SOP repair paper with the Big C?... or is it something else? Citando Michel [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Steve Mosher wrote: Hi Steve, A list on the wiki of all severe problems and the end user details would be great, especially for future reference. Some of the problems, like Buzz, 1024 (recamp) seem to happen to some people and not others. I never had the buzz problem, go figure. I've created the page. 1. problems: WSOD, recamp, Buzz, echo ( insert gripe) 2. End user data: a. email (optional) b. Date code on phone ( under battery) c. s/n d. p/n e carrier. f. 900Mhz or 850? g distro etc... The page links from http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_Hardware_Issues#Poor_Audio_Quality And you can find it here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Buzz_or_not Please ad fields if necessary anything else? It might be nice to know what band the phone is operating on ( 900/1800/1900) if that's possible. Tell me how I can find that info on the phone :) Steve Regards, Michel -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Android] Converting a brick into a phone
Hi All, I added another column to indicate echo problems - I think it would be good to get info on both of these issues. With regard to buzz, do you think it is necessary to differentiate between no buzz at all, always buzz, and buzz only with headset? My understanding was that using a headset also has an influence. Regards, Andreas Michel wrote: Steve Mosher wrote: Hi Steve, A list on the wiki of all severe problems and the end user details would be great, especially for future reference. Some of the problems, like Buzz, 1024 (recamp) seem to happen to some people and not others. I never had the buzz problem, go figure. I've created the page. 1. problems: WSOD, recamp, Buzz, echo ( insert gripe) 2. End user data: a. email (optional) b. Date code on phone ( under battery) c. s/n d. p/n e carrier. f. 900Mhz or 850? g distro etc... The page links from http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_Hardware_Issues#Poor_Audio_Quality And you can find it here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Buzz_or_not Please ad fields if necessary anything else? It might be nice to know what band the phone is operating on ( 900/1800/1900) if that's possible. Tell me how I can find that info on the phone :) Steve Regards, Michel ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Android] Converting a brick into a phone
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 6:02 PM, Andreas Fischer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, I added another column to indicate echo problems - I think it would be good to get info on both of these issues. With regard to buzz, do you think it is necessary to differentiate between no buzz at all, always buzz, and buzz only with headset? My understanding was that using a headset also has an influence. Have also added WSOD - the page may need to be renamed and linked from other pages Regards, Andreas ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Android] Converting a brick into a phone
On 10 Dec 2008, at 16:01, arne anka wrote: ... android g1 ... i don't want to support any effort in that way. +1 Stroller. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Android] Converting a brick into a phone
arne anka wrote: om provides and develops only one distribution! if there are more than this one it is done by community effort -- people who bought the freerunner exactly because the _could_ do that. i for one don't see any sense in helping google to do their homework -- and control people even more. the facts known about google's remote control of the android g1 (privately owned devoces, mind you!) are absolutely horrible, and i don't want to support any effort in that way. +1 from me too. Don't use Big Evil Google ! -- Swisslinux.org − Le carrefour GNU/Linux en Suisse − http://www.swisslinux.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Android] Converting a brick into a phone
Didier Raboud wrote: arne anka wrote: the facts known about google's remote control of the android g1 (privately owned devoces, mind you!) are absolutely horrible, and i don't want to support any effort in that way. +1 from me too. Don't use Big Evil Google ! I don't want them having my data, it's true, I don't use their services (other than search) because I don't believe in giving control to third parties. However, in this case, they have provided an open source mobile phone operating environment that is responsive, pretty and provides a hardware agnostic application environment. With a little bit of market penetration (and there are already many vendors looking with phones in the works) a software community far wider than a single device could spring up. And with it being OSS I can make sure the version I run is not subject to any google control. I agree that google are currently in a moral grey area, (and outright wrong about controlling people's phones) but I don't think android should be dismissed for this. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/-Android--Converting-a-brick-into-a-phone-tp1638865p1643164.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Proposal for new mailing list was: Re: Get rid of the Buzz Re: [Android] Converting a brick into a phone
On 10 Dec 2008, at 19:22, Michel wrote: ... You just state what I already stated, that there is an unofficial fix but not an official one, so I have been reading the archives. I say in my e-mail Yes there are several soldering hacks around, but not one is official. And I know that OM will come with a warranty statement only when the fix becomes official. I would just like that the optimization team (or the resources provided to them) get focused towards getting the FreeRunner to do what it should do from the moment it leaves the factory, placing a normal phone call. It was my response to the whole distro/android discussion that the focus should be on getting a working phone part, the software already has proven itself on that front, now it's time for the hardware. I propose a new mailing list for this kinds of discussion: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Stroller. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Re: [Android] Converting a brick into a phone
arne anka wrote: om provides and develops only one distribution! if there are more than this one it is done by community effort -- people who bought the freerunner exactly because the _could_ do that. i for one don't see any sense in helping google to do their homework -- and control people even more. the facts known about google's remote control of the android g1 (privately owned devoces, mind you!) are absolutely horrible, and i don't want to support any effort in that way. +1 from me too. Don't use Big Evil Google ! Google is watching you Tysiace zabawnych wierszyk�w.Dodaj swoj Sprawdz http://link.interia.pl/f1fcd ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Proposal for new mailing list was: Re: Get rid of the Buzz Re: [Android] Converting a brick into a phone
Stroller wrote: On 10 Dec 2008, at 19:22, Michel wrote: ... You just state what I already stated, that there is an unofficial fix but not an official one, so I have been reading the archives. I say in my e-mail Yes there are several soldering hacks around, but not one is official. And I know that OM will come with a warranty statement only when the fix becomes official. I would just like that the optimization team (or the resources provided to them) get focused towards getting the FreeRunner to do what it should do from the moment it leaves the factory, placing a normal phone call. It was my response to the whole distro/android discussion that the focus should be on getting a working phone part, the software already has proven itself on that front, now it's time for the hardware. I propose a new mailing list for this kinds of discussion: whin...@lists.openmoko.org Hehe ... that's the /dev/null one right ;) Sarton ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Android] Converting a brick into a phone
The Buzz is introduced into the Neo mic. ( Rf enters the mixer, and you will see a ripple on the DC coming out to the mic) consequently the far end of the call may hear a buzz. There are two potential fixes: The rework Joerg is drafting ( adding a CAP) smooths the ripple and theoretically attenuates the buzz. I think you may see some loss in mic sensitivity so a minor adjustment to the mic sensitivity ( via ALSA states) may be in order. Another fix would be to address the root cause and prevent the RF from entering the mixer. This change is more substantial and requires a layout change. It would involve adding some beads, changing the mic, and minor mechanical changes to the case. My preferred path is to test out the simple fix detailed in Joergs document as that fix can easily be applied ( the theory goes) to devices in the field. Vasco Névoa wrote: I'm kinda confused here... is this buzz issue the one where the caller (not the neo) hears the GSM buzzing? The one that has a SOP repair paper with the Big C?... or is it something else? Citando Michel mic...@xternal.nl: Steve Mosher wrote: Hi Steve, A list on the wiki of all severe problems and the end user details would be great, especially for future reference. Some of the problems, like Buzz, 1024 (recamp) seem to happen to some people and not others. I never had the buzz problem, go figure. I've created the page. 1. problems: WSOD, recamp, Buzz, echo ( insert gripe) 2. End user data: a. email (optional) b. Date code on phone ( under battery) c. s/n d. p/n e carrier. f. 900Mhz or 850? g distro etc... The page links from http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_Hardware_Issues#Poor_Audio_Quality And you can find it here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Buzz_or_not Please ad fields if necessary anything else? It might be nice to know what band the phone is operating on ( 900/1800/1900) if that's possible. Tell me how I can find that info on the phone :) Steve Regards, Michel -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Android] Converting a brick into a phone
Rui Castro wrote: Hi, Like many people in this community I have my Neo resting comfortably in my desk because there isn't a stable OS with the basic phone funcionalities available at the moment (I already tried all the distributions available). Some distributions provide some of the basic stuff, but they're not reliable in many ways. Today I read a message from Wolfgang Spraul in the thread about the end of the Optimization Team that got me worried The way things are going right now, we will probably have this release mid-next year.. Well, I think this is very bad. Electronic equipment, like phones/computers, become outdated in a very short period of time (GTA03 is already being created). By the mid-next year Neo will be pretty much an old phone and nobody really used it, yet. I totally disagree. First, I do not think that phones age that quick. I used an age-old Nokia phone (I think it was a 3510 - ca. 2002) until I got my Freerunner this summer. Unless something unforeseen happens, next summer the two Neos will _still_ be the only fully opensource smartphones out there. Outdated or not - there is no competition. Second, my understanding was that GTA03 is not yet created but only planned at this stage. Hearing that not even the OM engineers have it yet, I'd not expect gta03 before the next stable release. Third, the statement that nobody really used it, yet is wrong unless I am nobody. I am using it on a daily basis and from what I am reading on this list, others are too. Finally, we are not talking here about a release of a first working software stack but about a switch to a different software stack from an already working (though with several shortcomings) software stack. I think Android is the best candidate to turn the Neo into a daily usable phone right away. It has all the basic (and not so basic) applications, it has a good usability, good looks and the number of users/applications will grow very rapidly in the next months, I think. The current state of the Android port for Neo is already very encoraging and with a little effort from the community (and Openmoko people) Android could be fully functional in the Freerunner in a couple of weeks. And why should Openmoko redirect its effort to Android? Low-level improvements (like working on a new kernel) benefits Android anyway and - for me at least - OM2008.9 also has all the basic (and not so basic) applications. Plus, it offers more than just a Java environment. I'm sorry if this sounds a bit harsh, but I am a bit confused by people constantly complaining: Either you have a completely different phone or you came here with the wrong expectations. To me at least it was clear when I got the phone that it wouldn't be userfriendly at least until Q1/2009 (which seems to be a good guess now, seeing the release plan of FSO). Regards, Andreas ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Android] Converting a brick into a phone
I'm completly agree with Rui. The fact is that today, after several months, we have a phone that is not (yet) fully working. As my experience i tried all the distributions and the better one (in my very personal opinion) is the SHR that (unfortunately) doesn't include a phone calls manager, an sms manager (a decent one), a profile configurator (ring tone, and other stuffs) and a lot of other things..they are following the right way, but they need time and in the meanwhile our phones are fully of dust!! There is the necessity to focus our effort in the development of a distribution that could be usable (i.e. android) in order to have (finally) a fully working daily phone!! This is the priority. I don't have expercience with low level programming, but i know java as well and if i could i'd like to help to achieve this goal as soon as possible. Giorgio - Original Message - From: Rui Castro To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: [Android] Converting a brick into a phone Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 13:58:43 + Hi, Like many people in this community I have my Neo resting comfortably in my desk because there isn't a stable OS with the basic phone funcionalities available at the moment (I already tried all the distributions available). Some distributions provide some of the basic stuff, but they're not reliable in many ways. Today I read a message from Wolfgang Spraul in the thread about the end of the Optimization Team that got me worried The way things are going right now, we will probably have this release mid-next year.. Well, I think this is very bad. Electronic equipment, like phones/computers, become outdated in a very short period of time (GTA03 is already being created). By the mid-next year Neo will be pretty much an old phone and nobody really used it, yet. I think Android is the best candidate to turn the Neo into a daily usable phone right away. It has all the basic (and not so basic) applications, it has a good usability, good looks and the number of users/applications will grow very rapidly in the next months, I think. The current state of the Android port for Neo is already very encoraging and with a little effort from the community (and Openmoko people) Android could be fully functional in the Freerunner in a couple of weeks. Sean McNeil has been doing a great work, but as I see it, he is basically the only one working on the low level problems. My personal experience is more at the application level (Java), but with a little guidance I'm willing to help in any way. What I would like to see is some sort of list of things to do and how could the people from the community help doing them. I don't have much experience with open-souce projects, maybe I'm the only one that doesn't know how to help. If this is the case, please forgive this message :) Best regards, Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Be Yourself @ mail.com! Choose From 200+ Email Addresses Get a Free Account at www.mail.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Android] Converting a brick into a phone
people, i tend to agree with Rui as well. i understand it is difficult to 'kill your darlings' but what is the (business) sense to have '8 distributions for 10.000 phones'? (the only reason i can think of is some innovative user interface, and not one of the current distributions has anything interesting to offer, including android.) but, i am a happy openmoko customer proudly showing off, my phone is not bricking away. and even though i still have to put it 'to sleep' on my router to avoid a WSOD it is my daily phone. i am a happy qt extended user stalking sean for a working android image. sometimes i have my hopes up and flash to something else (yesterday it was SHR) but i usually 'flash back' to qt extended within half an hour. so, imho, you can do whatever you want. but if you pull your resources and help sean get android-on-freerunner 'to market' quickly you will sell some more bricks. (because the brick is really really great!) groet, jurg. On Dec 10, 2008, at 4:03 PM, Giorgio Marci wrote: I'm completly agree with Rui. The fact is that today, after several months, we have a phone that is not (yet) fully working. As my experience i tried all the distributions and the better one (in my very personal opinion) is the SHR that (unfortunately) doesn't include a phone calls manager, an sms manager (a decent one), a profile configurator (ring tone, and other stuffs) and a lot of other things..they are following the right way, but they need time and in the meanwhile our phones are fully of dust!! There is the necessity to focus our effort in the development of a distribution that could be usable (i.e. android) in order to have (finally) a fully working daily phone!! This is the priority. I don't have expercience with low level programming, but i know java as well and if i could i'd like to help to achieve this goal as soon as possible. Giorgio - Original Message - From: Rui Castro To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: [Android] Converting a brick into a phone Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 13:58:43 + Hi, Like many people in this community I have my Neo resting comfortably in my desk because there isn't a stable OS with the basic phone funcionalities available at the moment (I already tried all the distributions available). Some distributions provide some of the basic stuff, but they're not reliable in many ways. Today I read a message from Wolfgang Spraul in the thread about the end of the Optimization Team that got me worried The way things are going right now, we will probably have this release mid-next year.. Well, I think this is very bad. Electronic equipment, like phones/computers, become outdated in a very short period of time (GTA03 is already being created). By the mid-next year Neo will be pretty much an old phone and nobody really used it, yet. I think Android is the best candidate to turn the Neo into a daily usable phone right away. It has all the basic (and not so basic) applications, it has a good usability, good looks and the number of users/applications will grow very rapidly in the next months, I think. The current state of the Android port for Neo is already very encoraging and with a little effort from the community (and Openmoko people) Android could be fully functional in the Freerunner in a couple of weeks. Sean McNeil has been doing a great work, but as I see it, he is basically the only one working on the low level problems. My personal experience is more at the application level (Java), but with a little guidance I'm willing to help in any way. What I would like to see is some sort of list of things to do and how could the people from the community help doing them. I don't have much experience with open-souce projects, maybe I'm the only one that doesn't know how to help. If this is the case, please forgive this message :) Best regards, Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Be Yourself @ mail.com! Choose From 200+ Email Addresses Get a Free Account at www.mail.com! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Android] Converting a brick into a phone
Andreas Fischer ha scritto: I totally disagree. First, I do not think that phones age that quick. I used an age-old Nokia phone (I think it was a 3510 - ca. 2002) until I got my Freerunner this summer. Unless something unforeseen happens, next summer the two Neos will _still_ be the only fully opensource smartphones out there. Outdated or not - there is no competition. Second, my understanding was that GTA03 is not yet created but only planned at this stage. Hearing that not even the OM engineers have it yet, I'd not expect gta03 before the next stable release. Third, the statement that nobody really used it, yet is wrong unless I am nobody. I am using it on a daily basis and from what I am reading on this list, others are too. Finally, we are not talking here about a release of a first working software stack but about a switch to a different software stack from an already working (though with several shortcomings) software stack. Totally agree with you! :) I use my FR since September (bought in July but was a very pain until September) as a daily phone with FDOM and I have no problems except the following two: 1) buzzing noise (always when GSM signal strength becomes lower than half scale); 2) can't use bluetooth headset (according to wiki I'm able to pair and connect but I don't hear any audio) For all the remaining features I think it's a great device and I'm a very proud owner :) Great job guys! Go on! ;) Bye ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Android] Converting a brick into a phone
Andreas Fischer wrote: Hi, I'm sorry if this sounds a bit harsh, but I am a bit confused by people constantly complaining: Either you have a completely different phone or you came here with the wrong expectations. To me at least it was clear when I got the phone that it wouldn't be userfriendly at least until Q1/2009 (which seems to be a good guess now, seeing the release plan of FSO). At this moment there is only one thing that I (and a lot of other FreeRunner owners) need to get resolved and that is the infamous Buzz when a call is made. I, and I believe my fellow Buzz sufferers also, at this moment couldn't care less about an (software) optimization team existing or not if we can't use the phone for its core function, namely placing a call. This should be the number one priority and needs to be solved. As you state above, I too think that either different hardware was distributed by OpenMoko or there is a big difference in SIM cards issued by the providers. Maybe we could have a page on the wiki where people can tell in which country they are, which provider and if they have the buzz bug or not. Yes I know the phone won't be user friendly for a while. I knew that the day I ordered my OpenMoko. But after the Neo 1973 testing in factory and by developers and the testing of the FreeRunner before we could order and now there is this basic function of a phone that doesn't work. You see, I don't mention the GPS problem that was first discovered because that is not a basic phone function. Yes there are several soldering hacks around, but not one is official. Also there is still no statement how this will be resolved, warranty wise. So, untill I can use my phone as a phone it is a brick. I can load lots of nice distro's on it, even Android, but still I can't use it as a phone. I'm pro FSO let that be understood, and like Zhone which should never leave :) But lets put a team on getting a working phone part on the phone first. And get a software distro in the new year after this is solved. Or, and that needs to cleared up maybe, why do some people have the buzz and others don't, even when they use the same hardware. The only difference is the sim card, I guess. Okay, I'll stop rambling. Regards, Andreas Kind Regards, Michel -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Android] Converting a brick into a phone
'kill your darlings' but what is the (business) sense to have '8 distributions for 10.000 phones'? (the only reason i can think of is om provides and develops only one distribution! if there are more than this one it is done by community effort -- people who bought the freerunner exactly because the _could_ do that. i for one don't see any sense in helping google to do their homework -- and control people even more. the facts known about google's remote control of the android g1 (privately owned devoces, mind you!) are absolutely horrible, and i don't want to support any effort in that way. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Android] Converting a brick into a phone
Michel wrote: Maybe we could have a page on the wiki where people can tell in which country they are, which provider and if they have the buzz bug or not. That would be a good idea. Let's start this wiki page and also record the echo issue in it (which also seems to vary among people). Anyone knowing where to place this page? Regards, Andreas ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Android] Converting a brick into a phone
Maybe we could have a page on the wiki where people can tell in which country they are, which provider and if they have the buzz bug or not. That would be a good idea. Let's start this wiki page and also record the echo issue in it (which also seems to vary among people). Anyone knowing where to place this page? i wish, you guys would check archives and wiki before posting this stuff. the buzzing issue is _technically_ solved. the cause has been found a long while ago. fixes where tested and brought down to a fix that _could_ be done by users in the field (there were several posting regarding this _today_!) the fix as such is not yet external tested and therefore not yet official my understanding re warranty has always been that om states terms when a fix is published ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Android] Converting a brick into a phone
I agree with Rui, and as a Software Engineer with about a decade of C under my belt I should be able to help out. It's just getting motivated and getting started that are the problems here The nice thing about Android is that it seems like the interface stuff is basically there, it's sharp and responsive (compared to the last time I used 2008.X or FDOM, which was October) and it just seems like a much 'nicer' environment. Problems I have with getting started are I wouldn't know how to begin debugging, I don't have a qemu environment set up and the non-POSIX nature of the android setup is a little odd. The low-effort option for me seems to be to wait and see what koolu come up with... -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/-Android--Converting-a-brick-into-a-phone-tp1638865p1639849.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Android] Converting a brick into a phone
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Am 10.12.2008 17:17, arne anka schrieb: Maybe we could have a page on the wiki where people can tell in which country they are, which provider and if they have the buzz bug or not. That would be a good idea. Let's start this wiki page and also record the echo issue in it (which also seems to vary among people). Anyone knowing where to place this page? i wish, you guys would check archives and wiki before posting this stuff. the buzzing issue is _technically_ solved. I know. Still it might be good for those who suffer from buzzing to know whether a change of provider would bring a chance of improving the situation meanwhile, until the fix is official. And a wiki page summarizing experiences doesn't really cost anything, does it? Regards, Andreas -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAklACw8ACgkQ5Fl7TYZQYwFzTwCbB++czGH5Bon0BBzdQL4/7glo 3woAn1N+shXWAVeKVwK8Kpc/yLOReHwt =blcK -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Get rid of the Buzz Re: [Android] Converting a brick into a phone
arne anka wrote: Hi, i wish, you guys would check archives and wiki before posting this stuff. Maybe you should read my message a bit better before replying. :) the buzzing issue is _technically_ solved. the cause has been found a long while ago. fixes where tested and brought down to a fix that _could_ be done by users in the field (there were several posting regarding this _today_!) the fix as such is not yet external tested and therefore not yet official my understanding re warranty has always been that om states terms when a fix is published You just state what I already stated, that there is an unofficial fix but not an official one, so I have been reading the archives. I say in my e-mail Yes there are several soldering hacks around, but not one is official. And I know that OM will come with a warranty statement only when the fix becomes official. I would just like that the optimization team (or the resources provided to them) get focused towards getting the FreeRunner to do what it should do from the moment it leaves the factory, placing a normal phone call. It was my response to the whole distro/android discussion that the focus should be on getting a working phone part, the software already has proven itself on that front, now it's time for the hardware. I haven't seen much discussion (or I could be wrong and really don't read the archives) why one person has no problem with a buzz and the other with the same phone does have this problem. Kind regards, Michel -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Android] Converting a brick into a phone
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 8:58 AM, Rui Castro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Like many people in this community I have my Neo resting comfortably in my desk because there isn't a stable OS with the basic phone funcionalities available at the moment (I already tried all the distributions available). Some distributions provide some of the basic stuff, but they're not reliable in many ways. I'm definitely feeling like a broken record now - but I have to disagree with you - QtExtended 4.4.2 is a stable OS with basic phone functionality. The only major annoyance I have with the basic phone functionality is that you get some duplicate messages in the SMS inbox - I use google calendar with SMS notifications for my calendar solution, and I have to empty my inbox maybe once every week or two. I do tend to prophlactically reboot the phone every few days, but I've been using QtExtended 4.4.2 as my day to day phone basically since it came out, and I haven't missed calls, or not been able to make calls because of it. I finally gave up on carrying around my emergency backup phone - which I had to resort to regularly when I was using FDOM or OM. I must admit that I'm looking forward to being able to use the smart-phone features of the FR, so I agree it'd be great if Android or SHR or someone else was able to provide the phone stablity of QtE, plus everything else... Warren ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Android] Converting a brick into a phone
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 8:58 AM, Rui Castro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Like many people in this community I have my Neo resting comfortably in my desk because there isn't a stable OS with the basic phone funcionalities available at the moment (I already tried all the distributions available). Some distributions provide some of the basic stuff, but they're not reliable in many ways. I'm definitely feeling like a broken record now - but I have to disagree with you - QtExtended 4.4.2 is a stable OS with basic phone functionality. The only major annoyance I have with the basic phone functionality is that you get some duplicate messages in the SMS inbox - I use google calendar with SMS notifications for my calendar solution, and I have to empty my inbox maybe once every week or two. I do tend to prophlactically reboot the phone every few days, but I've been using QtExtended 4.4.2 as my day to day phone basically since it came out, and I haven't missed calls, or not been able to make calls because of it. I finally gave up on carrying around my emergency backup phone - which I had to resort to regularly when I was using FDOM or OM. I must admit that I'm looking forward to being able to use the smart-phone features of the FR, so I agree it'd be great if Android or SHR or someone else was able to provide the phone stablity of QtE, plus everything else... Warren ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Android] Converting a brick into a phone
Hi, English is not my primary language and that's the reason, I think, for some people that replied to my message, totally missing the point of it. I support the Openmoko initiative as much as everyone in this community, that's why I bought a Neo Freerunner and that's why I contributed with a humble keyboard for Android and I will continue to contribute as much as my abilities allow me. I think it's excellent to have an open and general purpose SO for smart phones, but at the moment, IMHO, none of the distributions available is a real alternative for everyday use. Some distros do almost everything (the basics), but more often than expected they fail in simple things, like duplicating messages, unregister from the network, not waking up the phone with a programmed alarm, not showing the name associated with the phone number that is calling, etc. PLEASE, don't take this as negative criticism, it's the facts. I know they will get to a point when they will deal with all that and much more. Again, IMHO, Android is the current OS that is closer in the short term to become a real OS for everyday use with the benefits of having a coherent UI between all applications (usability). Having a reliable and good looking OS running on Freerunners would make more people use it daily and that is the best publicity that any product can have. It would make Openmoko sell more phones and thus having more money to sustain new developments. So, my idea with my first message was to try to encourage people from the community (and from Openmoko too) to put a little effort to make Android stable in the Freerunner so that Openmoko and the community could benefict from having another alternative OS, in the SHORT term. Please don't make this thread a flame war. If my opinion means nothing to you or if you think I'm just stupid, don't answer me, I will get the message. Best regards, Rui On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 9:52 PM, Warren Baird [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 8:58 AM, Rui Castro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Like many people in this community I have my Neo resting comfortably in my desk because there isn't a stable OS with the basic phone funcionalities available at the moment (I already tried all the distributions available). Some distributions provide some of the basic stuff, but they're not reliable in many ways. I'm definitely feeling like a broken record now - but I have to disagree with you - QtExtended 4.4.2 is a stable OS with basic phone functionality. The only major annoyance I have with the basic phone functionality is that you get some duplicate messages in the SMS inbox - I use google calendar with SMS notifications for my calendar solution, and I have to empty my inbox maybe once every week or two. I do tend to prophlactically reboot the phone every few days, but I've been using QtExtended 4.4.2 as my day to day phone basically since it came out, and I haven't missed calls, or not been able to make calls because of it. I finally gave up on carrying around my emergency backup phone - which I had to resort to regularly when I was using FDOM or OM. I must admit that I'm looking forward to being able to use the smart-phone features of the FR, so I agree it'd be great if Android or SHR or someone else was able to provide the phone stablity of QtE, plus everything else... Warren ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Android] Converting a brick into a phone
Rui Castro wrote: So, my idea with my first message was to try to encourage people from the community (and from Openmoko too) to put a little effort to make Android stable in the Freerunner so that Openmoko and the community could benefict from having another alternative OS, in the SHORT term. I understood this also in your first message (and I quite agree on what you wrote). BTW I think that Openmoko guis should help in this only for low level things (i.e. kernel) and mostly if the changes could affect also the main Openmoko distro. Instead I think that the community should move on to get another distro (quite cool and with an endless level of possibilities and future development, I should admit) working on our hardware. Android shouldn't be the answer (I'd miss too much X :P), but I think that must be an alternative. For getting this, I figure, that we should place our efforts also in removing all the bad bits cited here (like any possibility of remote control over our hardware by Google) and optimizing the good ones for our phone. So, finally, who can help and work with the Openmoko officially supported projects should do that, but if you prefer to do other and you have any knowledge to help the android port, I think, that you should follow the Rui's words. -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Android] Converting a brick into a phone
A list on the wiki of all severe problems and the end user details would be great, especially for future reference. Some of the problems, like Buzz, 1024 (recamp) seem to happen to some people and not others. I never had the buzz problem, go figure. 1. problems: WSOD, recamp, Buzz, echo ( insert gripe) 2. End user data: a. email (optional) b. Date code on phone ( under battery) c. s/n d. p/n e carrier. f. 900Mhz or 850? g distro etc... anything else? It might be nice to know what band the phone is operating on ( 900/1800/1900) if that's possible. Steve Andreas Cyberfrag Fischer wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Am 10.12.2008 17:17, arne anka schrieb: Maybe we could have a page on the wiki where people can tell in which country they are, which provider and if they have the buzz bug or not. That would be a good idea. Let's start this wiki page and also record the echo issue in it (which also seems to vary among people). Anyone knowing where to place this page? i wish, you guys would check archives and wiki before posting this stuff. the buzzing issue is _technically_ solved. I know. Still it might be good for those who suffer from buzzing to know whether a change of provider would bring a chance of improving the situation meanwhile, until the fix is official. And a wiki page summarizing experiences doesn't really cost anything, does it? Regards, Andreas -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAklACw8ACgkQ5Fl7TYZQYwFzTwCbB++czGH5Bon0BBzdQL4/7glo 3woAn1N+shXWAVeKVwK8Kpc/yLOReHwt =blcK -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Android] Converting a brick into a phone
Hi Steve, Please start the page on the wiki with your phone info and I (and hopefully many others) will add there info there. I would start the page but not too sure where to start it or if bots clear out orphan pages on the wiki. Rakshat On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 11:59 AM, Steve Mosher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A list on the wiki of all severe problems and the end user details would be great, especially for future reference. Some of the problems, like Buzz, 1024 (recamp) seem to happen to some people and not others. I never had the buzz problem, go figure. 1. problems: WSOD, recamp, Buzz, echo ( insert gripe) 2. End user data: a. email (optional) b. Date code on phone ( under battery) c. s/n d. p/n e carrier. f. 900Mhz or 850? g distro etc... anything else? It might be nice to know what band the phone is operating on ( 900/1800/1900) if that's possible. Steve Andreas Cyberfrag Fischer wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Am 10.12.2008 17:17, arne anka schrieb: Maybe we could have a page on the wiki where people can tell in which country they are, which provider and if they have the buzz bug or not. That would be a good idea. Let's start this wiki page and also record the echo issue in it (which also seems to vary among people). Anyone knowing where to place this page? i wish, you guys would check archives and wiki before posting this stuff. the buzzing issue is _technically_ solved. I know. Still it might be good for those who suffer from buzzing to know whether a change of provider would bring a chance of improving the situation meanwhile, until the fix is official. And a wiki page summarizing experiences doesn't really cost anything, does it? Regards, Andreas -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAklACw8ACgkQ5Fl7TYZQYwFzTwCbB++czGH5Bon0BBzdQL4/7glo 3woAn1N+shXWAVeKVwK8Kpc/yLOReHwt =blcK -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- -- Please use Firefox as your web browser. Its protects you from spyware and is also a very feature rich browser. www.firefox.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
