subject:"\[Announce\] Intel and Nokia announce open source telephony project \(oFono\)"

Re: [Announce] Intel and Nokia announce open source telephony project (oFono)

2009-05-14 Thread Lorn Potter

Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote:
 (Private note: I have this strange sense of Deja Vu :-), although it's been a 
 long time since we had this argument :-)
 
 On Tuesday 12 May 2009 02:56:12 Lorn Potter wrote:
 Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote:
 Yeah,

 that's pretty sad. They should have picked FSO or even Pyneo or at least
 something that is already in development for quite a while. This way it
 looks like NIH syndrome.
 kettle calling the pot black...
 I always thought one of open source's strengths was choice.
 
 What sounds like an asset is a liability thanks to fragmentation. I'd rather 
 chose among few great options than lots of medicre ones.
 
 Until now, trying to co-work with these guys typically went like yeah,
 you can take our APIs, if you want. No, we don't want to look at yours,
 thanks..
 This is partly due to the fact that they planned the roadmap forward in
 years, not weeks or months, not to mention the waterfall development style
 they are probably using.

 It might have been developed internally for quite some time before this.
 
 Which doesn't make me more confident in their ability to shape the platform 
 APIs _together_ with the application developers as opposed to merely impose 
 it 
 on them. If it continues to be like that, FSO has a bright life.
 
 In contrast to that, FSO rather embraces application developer's
 requests.

 Lets see what happens this time.
 You tell me, is Nokia opening up and really embracing open source?
 http://qt.gitorious.org/qt
 
 That's Qt and they have inherited this style from Trolltech.

But it isn't Trolltech that gave the ok for this to go ahead. Nokia had to 
sign off on it too.


 
 The way Nokia has developed Maemo it was always about take it or leave it the 
 way it is. 

True. But Nokia is paranoid about patents and copyrights and licenses and such 
things. Which might
explain one reason why this has been true.

 
 Open source does not necessarily mean an open development process, you should 
 know that better than me :)

I think that most open source projects have a rather closed development process.


-- 
Lorn 'ljp' Potter
Software Engineer, Qt Software RD, Nokia Pty Ltd



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Re: [Announce] Intel and Nokia announce open source telephony project (oFono)

2009-05-14 Thread Pander

Lorn Potter wrote:
 Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote:
 (Private note: I have this strange sense of Deja Vu :-), although it's been 
 a 
 long time since we had this argument :-)

 On Tuesday 12 May 2009 02:56:12 Lorn Potter wrote:
 Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote:
 Yeah,

 that's pretty sad. They should have picked FSO or even Pyneo or at least
 something that is already in development for quite a while. This way it
 looks like NIH syndrome.
 kettle calling the pot black...
 I always thought one of open source's strengths was choice.
 What sounds like an asset is a liability thanks to fragmentation. I'd rather 
 chose among few great options than lots of medicre ones.

 Until now, trying to co-work with these guys typically went like yeah,
 you can take our APIs, if you want. No, we don't want to look at yours,
 thanks..
 This is partly due to the fact that they planned the roadmap forward in
 years, not weeks or months, not to mention the waterfall development style
 they are probably using.

 It might have been developed internally for quite some time before this.
 Which doesn't make me more confident in their ability to shape the platform 
 APIs _together_ with the application developers as opposed to merely impose 
 it 
 on them. If it continues to be like that, FSO has a bright life.

 In contrast to that, FSO rather embraces application developer's
 requests.

 Lets see what happens this time.
 You tell me, is Nokia opening up and really embracing open source?
 http://qt.gitorious.org/qt
 That's Qt and they have inherited this style from Trolltech.
 
 But it isn't Trolltech that gave the ok for this to go ahead. Nokia had 
 to sign off on it too.
 
 
 The way Nokia has developed Maemo it was always about take it or leave it 
 the 
 way it is. 
 
 True. But Nokia is paranoid about patents and copyrights and licenses and 
 such things. Which might
 explain one reason why this has been true.
 
 Open source does not necessarily mean an open development process, you 
 should 
 know that better than me :)
 
 I think that most open source projects have a rather closed development 
 process.

Just some simplified thoughts (my 2 euro cents):

Invitation to major companies: give lead developers of a certain open
source technology you want to adopt an air plane ticket to your office
and sit down for an afternoon. Those guys (and girls) can also work
under a contract with/for you or you could assign some developers of
your own to work with them. Just do lots of operational risk management
to guarantee a successful outcome (=proper project management).

I know it sounds a bit daring, because major companies cannot afford to
have a zillion phones produced without properly working software to go
with it. From the other side, complete automated test suits integrated
in release management, like Android is using, is lacking in FSO/SHR.
such a tighter procedure could be used to control the risks in releases
and lower the threshold for outside investors.

 
 


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Re: [Announce] Intel and Nokia announce open source telephony project (oFono)

2009-05-12 Thread Lorn Potter

On 12/05/2009, at 3:04 PM, max wrote:

On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 10:09 AM, max csy0...@googlemail.com wrote:
On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 8:25 AM, Lorn Potter
lpot...@trolltech.com wrote:
max wrote:
On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 6:37 AM, Lorn Potter
lpot...@trolltech.com wrote:
Levy wrote:
Hi,

On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 20:08, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer
mic...@vanille-media.de wrote:
Yeah,

that's pretty sad. They should have picked FSO or even Pyneo
or at least
something that is already in development for quite a while.
This way it looks
like NIH syndrome.
Someone is trying to make they use Pyneo on #ofone channel
right now.

I seriously doubt Nokia would ever have python on a Symbian
device, especially on S40.

Actually, Nokia is quite pro-Python. Check out these links for
more info.

http://opensource.nokia.com/projects/pythonfors60/
http://wiki.opensource.nokia.com/projects/PyS60_extensions

Let me rephrase that then. I doubt Nokia will ever ship python on
a Symbian device.
Just because someone started an open source project within Nokia,
doesn't mean it will ship in a
product.

Actually, the S60 All-in-one SDKs seems to support Python development
(officially). So I don't feel Py60 should be seen just as another open
source project started by someone within Nokia.

(Source:
http://www.forum.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/ec866fab-4b76-49f6-b5a5-af0631419e9c/S60_All_in_One_SDKs.html)

Coming back to the topic, personally, I feel the FSO interface should
have been adopted. D-Bus based APIs? OFono seems to be an alternate
standard to what FSO already established. While choice is good when it
comes to implementations, too much choice in interfaces/standards,
fragments the community, and much productivity is lost in duplicating
stuff.

Except we all know that python is not the direction Nokia is currently
taking.

Quite possibly OFono was started development before FSO. and besides,
OFono doesn't use python.

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Re: [Announce] Intel and Nokia announce open source telephony project (oFono)

2009-05-12 Thread max

On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Lorn Potter lpot...@trolltech.com wrote: