Re: Ain't it funny..
On 8/05/2009 6:58 PM, David Garabana Barro wrote: Some time ago, I have recommended several friends*NOT* to buy a Freerunner, because software was not ready. It was a great toy for me, but my friends would get desperated. I think it's being open minded (and being a good friend;) If someone feels raped, he can press charges to OM. But complaining on a community mailing list won't solve his problems. Don't you think? Way to chime in at the tail end. It's obvious with Dale's recent emails that he's frustrated that nobody was listening or taking him seriously. I witnessed his contributions and willingness to provide feedback, where he was met with semantics and useless responses that then pushed him to publicise his opinion and his situation. All still very obvious if you have paid any attention. You're love for your device and your 'opinion' in no way solves the problem that he had no outlet for recouping on a falsely advertised device. Our laws entitle us to have our money refunded in such a situation but this does not transcend international borders. I'd like to know where it is exactly you'd voice your dissent in such a situation. I'm sure Dale can present you with an audit trail of emails, trac tickets and the like, long before any of this actually started publicly. To top it off, I reckon Dale would have assimilated (now that's a nasty word over here) had Lorn admitted to the failings of QTE and been willing to agree that people have differing opinions on the software's 'usefulness', none of this would have ever happened. The one thing that should never occurred, and I imagine there are a few people that agree here, is that the FR should never have been advertised as a phone. Potential to become a phone maybe. This marketing oversight would have saved a lot of trouble and time. I say oversight because the people who are supporting openmoko really don't care whether it's a phone out of the box or not. Sarton ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
On Tuesday 12 May 2009 08:01:47 roguem...@roguewrt.org wrote: On 8/05/2009 6:58 PM, David Garabana Barro wrote: Some time ago, I have recommended several friends*NOT* to buy a Freerunner, because software was not ready. It was a great toy for me, but my friends would get desperated. I think it's being open minded (and being a good friend;) If someone feels raped, he can press charges to OM. But complaining on a community mailing list won't solve his problems. Don't you think? Way to chime in at the tail end. It's obvious with Dale's recent emails that he's frustrated that nobody was listening or taking him seriously. I witnessed his contributions and willingness to provide feedback, where he was met with semantics and useless responses that then pushed him to publicise his opinion and his situation. All still very obvious if you have paid any attention. You're love for your device and your 'opinion' in no way solves the problem that he had no outlet for recouping on a falsely advertised device. Our laws entitle us to have our money refunded in such a situation but this does not transcend international borders. I'd like to know where it is exactly you'd voice your dissent in such a situation. I'm sure Dale can present you with an audit trail of emails, trac tickets and the like, long before any of this actually started publicly. To top it off, I reckon Dale would have assimilated (now that's a nasty word over here) had Lorn admitted to the failings of QTE and been willing to agree that people have differing opinions on the software's 'usefulness', none of this would have ever happened. The one thing that should never occurred, and I imagine there are a few people that agree here, is that the FR should never have been advertised as a phone. Potential to become a phone maybe. This marketing oversight would have saved a lot of trouble and time. You're right in all you're saying, and specially in that the FR should never been advertised as a phone. I was only trying to mean that I didn't see that advertisement, and I knew it was not ready. Long before Neo was released, I was following mailing lists and wiki, and it was clear software was in a very early stage. Not more not less. If I answered this thread was because I didn't like to hear this sentence: I have been defrauded of $400. And so have you. The only difference is that I'm not willing to sit around pretending that being raped is all fun and games. I don't feel defrauded, and I don't pretend is funny being raped. And at this moment, *at least for me*, Neo already works like a phone, and I suppose updating GSM firmware to moko11, and disabling calypso deep_sleep, should make it work as a phone for everyone. I say oversight because the people who are supporting openmoko really don't care whether it's a phone out of the box or not. You're right on this one too. I bought it knowing it was not still an usabe phone, and I didn't care about it . ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
roguem...@roguewrt.org wrote: On 8/05/2009 6:58 PM, David Garabana Barro wrote: Some time ago, I have recommended several friends*NOT* to buy a Freerunner, because software was not ready. It was a great toy for me, but my friends would get desperated. I think it's being open minded (and being a good friend;) If someone feels raped, he can press charges to OM. But complaining on a community mailing list won't solve his problems. Don't you think? Way to chime in at the tail end. It's obvious with Dale's recent emails that he's frustrated that nobody was listening or taking him seriously. Well, you are assuming facts not in evidence. Dale's case is somewhat special. The highlights are that dale wanted return after owning the product for 9 months ( more or less as I recall). The case was complicated by the fact that Dale bought as part of a group purchase which means his name is not in our customer database. rather the group leader's name is in the database. So, we have no way of guaranteeing that a refund made to the group leader would be passed onto Dale. A while back I believe Tony Tu tried to rectify the situation, but the offer he made was unacceptable to Dale. I'm here in TPE and I will be discussing it with Sean. I witnessed his contributions and willingness to provide feedback, where he was met with semantics and useless responses that then pushed him to publicise his opinion and his situation. All still very obvious if you have paid any attention. You're love for your device and your 'opinion' in no way solves the problem that he had no outlet for recouping on a falsely advertised device. Our laws entitle us to have our money refunded in such a situation but this does not transcend international borders. I'd like to know where it is exactly you'd voice your dissent in such a situation. I'm sure Dale can present you with an audit trail of emails, trac tickets and the like, long before any of this actually started publicly. To top it off, I reckon Dale would have assimilated (now that's a nasty word over here) had Lorn admitted to the failings of QTE and been willing to agree that people have differing opinions on the software's 'usefulness', none of this would have ever happened. The one thing that should never occurred, and I imagine there are a few people that agree here, is that the FR should never have been advertised as a phone. Potential to become a phone maybe. This marketing oversight would have saved a lot of trouble and time. I say oversight because the people who are supporting openmoko really don't care whether it's a phone out of the box or not. Sarton ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: It Ain't funny [Was: Ain't it funny..]
ya I got the mail. I'm in TPE. It's on my todo list. Watch for a mail. Dale Maggee wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Now you're just trying to confuse me... ;) ...I haven't received any reply to my off-list email yet... I presume you're looking into it? Steve Mosher wrote: Best of all is to avoid hyperbolic claims of totalitarian behavior all together, since the claim, if true, will never see the light of pixels, and if false, is self refuting. That's my rhetorical observation for the day. Dale Maggee wrote: Shawn Rutledge wrote: On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 9:12 AM, Dale Maggee anti...@internode.on.net wrote: Generally when I hear the word nazi used, it means totalitarian, not monster or mass murderer - think of the soup nazi in Seinfeld. That's what I meant. Not the other. *At All*. Sorry. That just goes to show the meaning has gotten diluted from overuse, doesn't it. Absolutely, to the point that I wasn't even aware that there were other meanings you could read into it, and that's why I felt like such a dick once I had this pointed out to me. Like I said, I learned something, and as a consequence I'll need to find myself a new metaphor for totalitarian... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKCQfHFbVnQRV3OEYRAvv5AJsFqi5PydVOKBxMGxbJ8px/dzkmJwCgjFfG /gWKpl45b6ZnoZaNSnPuJRI= =ij30 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
On 12/05/2009 10:39 PM, Steve Mosher wrote: Well, you are assuming facts not in evidence. Dale's case is somewhat special. You're right and I don't purport to be in possession of all the facts. The 9 months for which he had the device in his possession, in my eyes, signify his willingness to accept the interim short-comings of the device, something he obviously feels penalised for. Don't get me wrong Steve, I have the utmost respect for you, you've done a great job handling everything that has occurred. I know I'd hate to have to deal with what you have and I doubt I'd do it with such finesse. I still consider my purchase an investment in the future consolidation of information and communication, with respect to standards and standards adherence. Maybe not in my lifetime but we have to start somewhere. Best regards, Sarton ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
On 12/05/2009 8:42 PM, David Garabana Barro wrote: You're right on this one too. I bought it knowing it was not still an usabe phone, and I didn't care about it Neither did I :) I'm a big believer in putting one's self into other peoples shoes. Open source, and the bigger picture, freedom of speech, involves many people of varied backgrounds with many varied ranges of opinion. There are people within these ... er hmmm ... communities, who value their own stance above others, which impedes advancement and resolution of existing issues. My situation was/is the same as yours. I only support Dale because I'm willing to see his perspective and I believe he made valid attempts to assist with making the FR a usable phone, despite the fact he should not have had to. Just because some people on here preach for open source, doesn't make them right, no matter how much they respond negatively to Dale, who mind you, has not targeted them directly. This is a 'product' with a 'business model' after all. Once this immaturity passes, I'm really hoping that minimally Openmoko has been, or will be the start of something big. I believe this is just a passing phase and people need to lighten up and realise that all opinions are valid. If they're not inline with yours just stfu and let the relevant people involved deal with it. Constructive criticism and contribution is always good but if your intention is to try and shut the other person down, well, that's called inflammation and it only prolongs the pain. I've witnessed this especially in Dales case. Sarton ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
roguem...@roguewrt.org wrote: On 12/05/2009 10:39 PM, Steve Mosher wrote: Well, you are assuming facts not in evidence. Dale's case is somewhat special. You're right and I don't purport to be in possession of all the facts. The 9 months for which he had the device in his possession, in my eyes, signify his willingness to accept the interim short-comings of the device, something he obviously feels penalised for Don't get me wrong Steve, I have the utmost respect for you, you've done a great job handling everything that has occurred. I know I'd hate to have to deal with what you have and I doubt I'd do it with such finesse. Ah, you are being too kind. I look at it this way. I have to exhibit at least the same amount of patience as out Customers have. I still consider my purchase an investment in the future consolidation of information and communication, with respect to standards and standards adherence. Maybe not in my lifetime but we have to start somewhere. Thanks. Best regards, Sarton ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: It Ain't funny [Was: Ain't it funny..]
Best of all is to avoid hyperbolic claims of totalitarian behavior all together, since the claim, if true, will never see the light of pixels, and if false, is self refuting. That's my rhetorical observation for the day. Dale Maggee wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Shawn Rutledge wrote: On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 9:12 AM, Dale Maggee anti...@internode.on.net wrote: Generally when I hear the word nazi used, it means totalitarian, not monster or mass murderer - think of the soup nazi in Seinfeld. That's what I meant. Not the other. *At All*. Sorry. That just goes to show the meaning has gotten diluted from overuse, doesn't it. Absolutely, to the point that I wasn't even aware that there were other meanings you could read into it, and that's why I felt like such a dick once I had this pointed out to me. Like I said, I learned something, and as a consequence I'll need to find myself a new metaphor for totalitarian... -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKBRyUFbVnQRV3OEYRAqlIAKCCPMZT4yqyPLA4nRz5lp+BJ+smtACdE/dy DgRCwUfSfUNgqz5EFt9o1mk= =eS2W -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: It Ain't funny [Was: Ain't it funny..]
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Now you're just trying to confuse me... ;) ...I haven't received any reply to my off-list email yet... I presume you're looking into it? Steve Mosher wrote: Best of all is to avoid hyperbolic claims of totalitarian behavior all together, since the claim, if true, will never see the light of pixels, and if false, is self refuting. That's my rhetorical observation for the day. Dale Maggee wrote: Shawn Rutledge wrote: On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 9:12 AM, Dale Maggee anti...@internode.on.net wrote: Generally when I hear the word nazi used, it means totalitarian, not monster or mass murderer - think of the soup nazi in Seinfeld. That's what I meant. Not the other. *At All*. Sorry. That just goes to show the meaning has gotten diluted from overuse, doesn't it. Absolutely, to the point that I wasn't even aware that there were other meanings you could read into it, and that's why I felt like such a dick once I had this pointed out to me. Like I said, I learned something, and as a consequence I'll need to find myself a new metaphor for totalitarian... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKCQfHFbVnQRV3OEYRAvv5AJsFqi5PydVOKBxMGxbJ8px/dzkmJwCgjFfG /gWKpl45b6ZnoZaNSnPuJRI= =ij30 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
O Sábado, 9 de Maio de 2009, Craig Woodward escribiu: David Garabana Barro da...@garabana.com wrote: knew what you were getting into, bravo for you. For us, it doesn't make getting hit with a bat any more pleasurable, despite how much you tell us you enjoy it. You could try to understand what I mean instead of twisting my words. [...] if you buzz fix your Neo, and install SHR, Hackable::1 No... It won't. I live in the US. There are no buzzfix parties going on here, and I don't have access to the equipment I need to fix it myself. And really, buzz is irrelevant to me, and fixing that one little bug does not fix it as a phone. I need a phone that can use with a bluetooth headset, which no release of software I've found can reliably do right now. Cannot help on this one, sorry. I haven't tried to use it. But I remember reading some messages on the list about it. I also need something that's going to ring whenever I get a call, most of those distros don't do that reliably... I know, I've tried each of them almost a dozen times already, since each releases something new almost monthly. I bet your neo is suffering from #1024. Mine too. Have you tried to disable Calypso deep_sleep on FSO configuration? I stopped losing calls since I started to use SHR, which disable deep_sleep by default. I couldn't use Neo as phone before discovering it, and now I don't lose *any* single call. Edit /etc/frameworkd.conf: [ogsmd] ti_calypso_deep_sleep = never Check you have this. modemtype = ti_calypso ti_calypso_muxer_type = gsm0710muxd I don't know if you can disable deep sleep on any non-FSO distro. For YOU that combo may have worked... for ME, it's not a solution. Might be. But as now it works for me, I'm just trying to help you make it work. If you still want it, of course. -- David Garabana Barro jabber google talk ID:da...@garabana.com Clave pública PGP/GPG: http://davide.garabana.com/pgp.html signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: It Ain't funny [Was: Ain't it funny..]
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Shawn Rutledge wrote: On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 9:12 AM, Dale Maggee anti...@internode.on.net wrote: Generally when I hear the word nazi used, it means totalitarian, not monster or mass murderer - think of the soup nazi in Seinfeld. That's what I meant. Not the other. *At All*. Sorry. That just goes to show the meaning has gotten diluted from overuse, doesn't it. Absolutely, to the point that I wasn't even aware that there were other meanings you could read into it, and that's why I felt like such a dick once I had this pointed out to me. Like I said, I learned something, and as a consequence I'll need to find myself a new metaphor for totalitarian... -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKBRyUFbVnQRV3OEYRAqlIAKCCPMZT4yqyPLA4nRz5lp+BJ+smtACdE/dy DgRCwUfSfUNgqz5EFt9o1mk= =eS2W -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 For the Conspiracy Theorists out there: Steve and I are discussing this off-list. For everybody else: This list will now be free of my vitriol while Steve and I talk. Enjoy. Steve Mosher wrote: Dale Maggee wrote: Hi Steve, I appreciate your replying to this thread. I would however point out that I believe that you should have already been aware of this issue before I raised it in this public mailing list: I sent three emails to Openmoko asking about getting a refund, and received no reply to any of them. I've pasted these emails below, after the ---BEGIN EMAIL THREAD--- Line. You were cc'd in two of these emails (the ones saying I've had no reply). I eventually got a response from Tony Tu on the trac ticket, at which point I stopped sending emails to you. Dale, as you can well imagine since I receive mail every single time a FR is ordered, since I receive mail every time we get a request for a return, since I receive mail from the community list and the developer list and since I received mail from cont...@openmoko univers...@openmoko.. oh heck every public mail we have plus I have my email on every press release, you can well imagine that I might have forgotten your name. But I didn't. Two people handled the RMAs on product purchased from OM store. And with Tony on the job I just assumed it would handled. I've been informed that we dont have a record a record of you purchasing the phone from us. That probably explains why Tony could not process the return. As I've indicated, I've already gone through the process of requesting a refund for the device, and this was declined. I think you should be able to find all the info you need at https://support.openmoko.com/trac/ticket/36 Yes. As I stated above we have no record of you purchaing the phone at our store: openmoko.com If you purchased it elsewhere please let me know. All of the guys here who have dealt with me will tell you that I'm a fair and reasonable person. I think that if you want to discuss the refund issue with me, it may be more appropriate to do so off-list, but I realise that I may have created a public image issue for you here (given my usage of the words thieves and defrauded), and that you may therefore want to keep this public. If you're willing to work with me to resolve my grievances and prove my assertions incorrect, then I'd be more than happy to come back here and retract my previous statements once it's resolved :). That might be more appropriate, rather than flooding the mailing list with what will effectively be back-and-forth personal conversations between you and me. but if you want to discuss it in this public place I have no problem with that either - up to you. Makes no difference to me. If I handled this privately I'm sure some lunatic down the road who slam me for taking it private and launch into yact, yet another conspiracy theory. You put your return request into the RMA process for the Openmoko store. For that process to work we have to be able to find you in the database. So, if you could verify that you did in fact purchase the phone from that store ( the sn and imei would help) Then I can do two things: 1. Figure out how the heck the system didnt capture your information 2. Process your return. WRT your language. If I took offense, then I'd be a thief. ( that's a joke.. took a fence) Seriously, I'm no person to lecture people about having a colorful way of expressing anger. I'll just say that some weapons have more collateral damage then others. And sometimes you can frag yourself, intentionally or otherwise, if you don't get clear of the blast zone. Since having my application for a refund declined, I had come to kind of accept that I had been screwed, and I have since bought another phone. Since I did that, I've (in my less angry moments) come to see the FR as a kind-of-cool little open-source device, as long as you don't want to use it as a phone. I haven't really done anything much with it, because so far I've been too angry to really even look at it, but I will admit that it does have potential for something, even if it's not as a reliable phone. I'll check from my side but did they give you a reason for being declined. (That's my whole point, by the way: That it's not a usable phone, even after a year of waiting, and I bought it because I wanted a working open source phone, and I was told that the FR would meet that requirement). I would therefore perhaps be open to accepting a partial refund and keeping the device as a PDA-sized linux device (The AU Laws allow for that), even if I never use it. But I think that if this were to happen I would maybe not feel cheated anymore and could possibly once again enjoy participating constructively in the community. Let's see what turns up when I get the ID numbers I requested.
Re: Ain't it funny..
Bitter much? : ) nope. he's just a troll. Before I bought My Neo, I was told by OM that it would work as a phone. dale, you told us all of this already -- at least ten times. you put up your freerunner for sale at ebay months ago. you don't write anything productive on this list. why don't you just shut up? unsubscribe from this list -- you don't use the fr, you don't contribute to either community or development. the only thing you do on this list is trolling. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
Guten Tag, Sieg Heil. ... beautiful and intelligent people in the world, and your country reflects that... :) ) wow. insulting and slimy at once! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
I appreciate there is a very high identification with the product among the remaining users. But please dont behave like this is the Scientology mailinglist. Using an open phone obliges you to be open minded :-) it has nothing to with identification but with dale's way to act. he doesn't use an fr and he does in no way contribute -- what do you call someone who lurks on a list he is in no way affiliated to and posts repeatedly meanings consisting of only your point of interest is crap, everything you are talking about is crap and if you don't share my point of view you are idiots and nazis? if that doesn't fit your definition of troll -- mine does. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
On Friday 08 May 2009 09:47:00 Christoph Pulster wrote: Please discuss different point of views and dont call Dave a troll. The fact is, Freerunner was promoted as a phone. A lot of customers are not happy with the Freerunner as a daily phone. Sales are running very low for this reason. Although you might be right about Freerunner promoted as ready for final user on www.openmoko.com, when I bought it (August 2008), I perfectly knew software was not ready. Anyway, starting one hot thread like this at this moment has not sense and it's some kind of trolling, because if you buzz fix your Neo, and install SHR, Hackable::1, or even OM2009 on it, you will have a perfectly usable phone. Not perfect, but perfectly usable. I appreciate there is a very high identification with the product among the remaining users. But please dont behave like this is the Scientology mailinglist. Using an open phone obliges you to be open minded :-) I'm sorry, but I cannot subscribe this kind of sentences: I have been defrauded of $400. And so have you. The only difference is that I'm not willing to sit around pretending that being raped is all fun and games. Freedom of speech doesn't allow anybody to assume I'm blind nor to be condescending with me. Some time ago, I have recommended several friends *NOT* to buy a Freerunner, because software was not ready. It was a great toy for me, but my friends would get desperated. I think it's being open minded (and being a good friend ;) If someone feels raped, he can press charges to OM. But complaining on a community mailing list won't solve his problems. Don't you think? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 10:44 AM, arne anka openm...@ginguppin.de wrote: Bitter much? : ) nope. he's just a troll. Before I bought My Neo, I was told by OM that it would work as a phone. dale, you told us all of this already -- at least ten times. you put up your freerunner for sale at ebay months ago. you don't write anything productive on this list. why don't you just shut up? unsubscribe from this list -- you don't use the fr, you don't contribute to either community or development. the only thing you do on this list is trolling. Hmmm ... I do contribute and I do use my freerunner (sometimes, mostly for testing only). So I want to react for once as well: You see, in the end, Dale's not that wrong: a year after I bought the phone, I would at least expect a stable simple phone (I couldn't care less about the extras), but as a company, Openmoko didn't provide this. Therefore community releases were born, but they shouldn't be necessary, only additional (or as an alternative). In the freerunner case, only the community provides software for the phone. A year later, I have to admit, I sometimes think about selling my phone as well. I'm still using my old phone as stable phone, simply because I don't want to recharge each day or reboot my phone every now and then because unsuspend fails again, or wsod, or risk having my phone not waking up on incoming calls, etc ... QtExtendedImproved is as close as it gets for me ... Koolu promised many times a stable android release, but there also: no release, months after original promise (I mean, really: low priority for the feature 'entering your sim PIN' ???). Sometimes people have to face the facts as well. I *love* opensource, I don't even own a windows pc, look up my name in google if you want proof. I've worked hard for this phone in the last months, but is it really worth it? What will I do if the phone breaks? Dunno yet ... Every project, even an open project, totally in the opensource hands, can fail ... Franky ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
Hmmm ... I do contribute and I do use my freerunner (sometimes, mostly for testing only). So I want to react for once as well: then there's no need for you to feel addressed :-) You see, in the end, Dale's not that wrong: a year after I bought the phone, I would at least expect a stable simple phone (I couldn't care less about the extras), but as a company, Openmoko didn't provide this. well, that has beeen discussed so many times already and nothing in the views expressed has changed. i don't see how replaying the whole tape is supposed to make a difference. criticising the state the fr and the project is in, is ok -- in fact, it has imo made the buzz fix finally available, it has improvroved communication with the om staff ... but it's all crap, they are liars and defraudants is in no way solving anything -- and people who have nothing to post but such comments _are_ trolls. they are not interested in making something work, not in sorting out issues but to boost their little selves -- iaw: trolls. and for dale's -- i said what i think of his kind of argumentation. because I don't want to recharge each day or reboot my phone every now and then because unsuspend fails again, or wsod, or risk having my phone not waking up on incoming calls, etc ... yeah, and there we are again. _i_ for one do not have complaints (at least no significant amount different from other phones i used) about the use as daily phone. it works now about as reliable as my treo650 used to do (which had its bad days, too) and the last time i rebootet was for the buzz fix. i don't remember when i rebooted the last time before. and still, i too have discouraged friends interested. so? what i am saying is, everybody has its own defintion of working phone and almost everbody has its own software configuration. so, how is a globally true statement of fit to be used as ... possible? stating after one year the fr is still unsusable as (daily) phone is simply not true! it might be true for _you_, but it isn't for _me_ -- so please, always be aware that those statemants express only _your_ point of view, not an objective truth. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
Cant let this pass ... On Fri, 2009-05-08 at 11:33 +0200, arne anka wrote: Hmmm ... I do contribute and I do use my freerunner (sometimes, mostly yeah, and there we are again. _i_ for one do not have complaints (at least no significant amount different from other phones i used) about the use as daily phone. Either you dont use your phone or its powered off in a draw :) ... see my last comment below as to why I say this. it works now about as reliable as my treo650 used to do (which had its bad days, too) and the last time i rebootet was for the buzz fix. i don't I have a 650 - the FR is still a long way from being as stable even now, as the 650 was when released. I was getting uptimes of weeks (and now with the sim in the FR, a battery charge lasts a full MONTH!!!) - the FR will usually only go a few days or resume cycles before a crash or reboot is needed and must be charged daily if any real use is made of it. It may go more if i dont use it, or get any calls but then, why have a phone :) Why am I contributing to a flame? - my phone came in the same batch as Dales to Oz (the first release), and yes, I do feel cheated somewhat as well - though I am now getting some of the service from my FR that it was supposed to have when we purchased it - but only because I am modifying the code for various bits and pieces. My point - the FR seems to be very flaky - what works for some wont work for others - in your case it works well, but for many others it is only partially working, or not at all - and this is after 12 months!. Want a concrete example - the FR keeps lousy time. otimed was introduced to help with this - but they hard coded a European IP number into it! So it works fine in Europe but not here for me in Perth Australia because its too far away to be accurate and reliable, but the European users and devs cant see a problem as it works for them ... Please understand that what you see, many others are not, and might have a quite different viewpoint on this ... BillK ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 arne anka wrote: Guten Tag, Sieg Heil. ... beautiful and intelligent people in the world, and your country reflects that... :) ) wow. insulting and slimy at once! I'd just like to say thanks for addressing the points I make in such a calm and rational manner. If you were capable of being rational, you would have realised that I was referencing a totalitarian state, not a race, and then clarifying that I am not attempting to insult a race of people and that it's unfortunate that using your particular language happens to be a very effective way to express that. I do genuinely feel an affinity to your people, culture, and country. If you think that my being honest is being insulting and slimy, then whatever. I have already recieved one off-list email from a deutschlander who understood exactly what I was trying to say, so that indicates further to me that you're just being a fanboy and not thinking independently or even weighing my arguments - you see my posts, your mind closes, and you say troll like a reflex. And that's sad. If you would like to suggest a more appropriate way for me to have expressed what I wanted to, I would very much like to hear it. Note however that the sarcasm used in the greeting is important to my style, so any suggestion you might make would have to retain that. Also it would want to be short and effective. Alternatively, you're welcome to address the issues I'm raising. Or you could set up an email filter and consequently STFU. All are acceptable to me - I'm in favour of free speech. But true free speech requires rational dialogue, and I'm not seeing any rational dialogue from you. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKBCjkFbVnQRV3OEYRAqcBAJ9ClvhkIToyaGGXApiNrfsWA8kotACdHsVA WsQyQnqXKZj/1XIbpVHSEQA= =PtQt -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 arne anka wrote: Bitter much? : ) nope. he's just a troll. Before I bought My Neo, I was told by OM that it would work as a phone. dale, you told us all of this already -- at least ten times. Sources? I don't think it has been ten. and I've certainly not said *all* this before. you put up your freerunner for sale at ebay months ago. I don't remember ever saying that. I may have said that I was *thinking* about it. Again, please cite sources. you don't write anything productive on this list. It's productive for people who might be thinking of buying a FR. why don't you just shut up? Why don't you just set up an email filter? unsubscribe from this list -- you don't use the fr, you don't contribute to either community or development. the only thing you do on this list is trolling. See my previous email - I've already addressed these assertions. come up with something new. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKBCn1FbVnQRV3OEYRAsf4AKCKRi/kEoB1qLv7LajMmWSl3KFphQCggCrp vCSUVbcKfznA2h0MuTUeQzo= =5YVO -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Thank you very much for a rational contribution to this thread, Franky. Franky Van Liedekerke wrote: On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 10:44 AM, arne anka openm...@ginguppin.de wrote: Bitter much? : ) nope. he's just a troll. Before I bought My Neo, I was told by OM that it would work as a phone. dale, you told us all of this already -- at least ten times. you put up your freerunner for sale at ebay months ago. you don't write anything productive on this list. why don't you just shut up? unsubscribe from this list -- you don't use the fr, you don't contribute to either community or development. the only thing you do on this list is trolling. Hmmm ... I do contribute and I do use my freerunner (sometimes, mostly for testing only). So I want to react for once as well: You see, in the end, Dale's not that wrong: a year after I bought the phone, I would at least expect a stable simple phone (I couldn't care less about the extras), but as a company, Openmoko didn't provide this. Therefore community releases were born, but they shouldn't be necessary, only additional (or as an alternative). In the freerunner case, only the community provides software for the phone. A year later, I have to admit, I sometimes think about selling my phone as well. I'm still using my old phone as stable phone, simply because I don't want to recharge each day or reboot my phone every now and then because unsuspend fails again, or wsod, or risk having my phone not waking up on incoming calls, etc ... QtExtendedImproved is as close as it gets for me ... Koolu promised many times a stable android release, but there also: no release, months after original promise (I mean, really: low priority for the feature 'entering your sim PIN' ???). Sometimes people have to face the facts as well. I *love* opensource, I don't even own a windows pc, look up my name in google if you want proof. I've worked hard for this phone in the last months, but is it really worth it? What will I do if the phone breaks? Dunno yet ... Every project, even an open project, totally in the opensource hands, can fail ... Franky ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKBCp/FbVnQRV3OEYRAr2JAJ9Rkkm/6ojk5VkK7Gg7HtJYRfWFGgCfS9Hi GFo/0xu5j+bJEM/Mcuh9JLU= =eL2H -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 arne anka wrote: so, how is a globally true statement of fit to be used as ... possible? it might be true for _you_, but it isn't for _me_ -- so please, always be aware that those statemants express only _your_ point of view, not an objective truth. According to Australian Laws, the customer's point of view is what matters. That's me. Hence they're breaching Australian consumer protection Laws by refusing to refund my money. I invite you to read the following for a good explanation of the Australian Laws, if you'd like more specific info: http://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/CA256902000FE154/Lookup/CAV_Publications_Business_Information/$file/A4%20Refund%20Law%20Brochure.pdf#xml=http://search.justice.vic.gov.au/isysquery/irl5ab6/3/hilite If you think that my bringing the truth out into the open, or that my attempting to stand up for my rights is trolling, then I think that your opinions are very strange, given that the Open Source philosophy is really all about freedom, equality, and rights. I would once again Invite you to set up an email filter :) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKBC6xFbVnQRV3OEYRAlatAJ4jR20i62eguCHDZC5gWHtxprr4bgCglOwM ST3e9Sh0BPNwtnxiLU7DmvM= =UDzH -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
Am Freitag, 8. Mai 2009 14:43:16 schrieb Dale Maggee: arne anka wrote: Guten Tag, Sieg Heil. ... beautiful and intelligent people in the world, and your country reflects that... :) ) wow. insulting and slimy at once! I'd just like to say thanks for addressing the points I make in such a calm and rational manner. If you were capable of being rational, you would have realised that I was referencing a totalitarian state, not a race, and then clarifying that I am not attempting to insult a race of people and that it's unfortunate that using your particular language happens to be a very effective way to express that. I do genuinely feel an affinity to your people, culture, and country. If you think that my being honest is being insulting and slimy, then whatever. I have already recieved one off-list email from a deutschlander who understood exactly what I was trying to say, so that indicates further to me that you're just being a fanboy and not thinking independently or even weighing my arguments - you see my posts, your mind closes, and you say troll like a reflex. And that's sad. If you would like to suggest a more appropriate way for me to have expressed what I wanted to, I would very much like to hear it. Note however that the sarcasm used in the greeting is important to my style, so any suggestion you might make would have to retain that. Also it would want to be short and effective. Alternatively, you're welcome to address the issues I'm raising. Or you could set up an email filter and consequently STFU. All are acceptable to me - I'm in favour of free speech. But true free speech requires rational dialogue, and I'm not seeing any rational dialogue from you. Dale, I'm sorry to contradict you (am I really?), but using Nazi slogans in such an affair is completely inappropriate. You may like our country as much as you want, still using this... deprecated language doesn't make me feel you really know what you're referencing there. There are WAY better examples for freedom of speech. This is no more rationale than you may think the other's contributions to be. Yours sincerely, Marcel ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
On Fri, May 08, 2009 at 03:34:40PM +0200, Marcel wrote: I'm sorry to contradict you (am I really?), but using Nazi slogans in such I call for the rule of Godwin's Law! Rui -- Frink! Today is Pungenday, the 55th day of Discord in the YOLD 3175 + No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown + Whatever you do will be insignificant, | but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi + So let's do it...? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 3:52 PM, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra r...@1407.org wrote: On Fri, May 08, 2009 at 03:34:40PM +0200, Marcel wrote: I'm sorry to contradict you (am I really?), but using Nazi slogans in such I call for the rule of Godwin's Law! Rui nice 1! Franky ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Steve, I appreciate your replying to this thread. I would however point out that I believe that you should have already been aware of this issue before I raised it in this public mailing list: I sent three emails to Openmoko asking about getting a refund, and received no reply to any of them. I've pasted these emails below, after the ---BEGIN EMAIL THREAD--- Line. You were cc'd in two of these emails (the ones saying I've had no reply). I eventually got a response from Tony Tu on the trac ticket, at which point I stopped sending emails to you. As I've indicated, I've already gone through the process of requesting a refund for the device, and this was declined. I think you should be able to find all the info you need at https://support.openmoko.com/trac/ticket/36 I think that if you want to discuss the refund issue with me, it may be more appropriate to do so off-list, but I realise that I may have created a public image issue for you here (given my usage of the words thieves and defrauded), and that you may therefore want to keep this public. If you're willing to work with me to resolve my grievances and prove my assertions incorrect, then I'd be more than happy to come back here and retract my previous statements once it's resolved :). That might be more appropriate, rather than flooding the mailing list with what will effectively be back-and-forth personal conversations between you and me. but if you want to discuss it in this public place I have no problem with that either - up to you. Since having my application for a refund declined, I had come to kind of accept that I had been screwed, and I have since bought another phone. Since I did that, I've (in my less angry moments) come to see the FR as a kind-of-cool little open-source device, as long as you don't want to use it as a phone. I haven't really done anything much with it, because so far I've been too angry to really even look at it, but I will admit that it does have potential for something, even if it's not as a reliable phone. (That's my whole point, by the way: That it's not a usable phone, even after a year of waiting, and I bought it because I wanted a working open source phone, and I was told that the FR would meet that requirement). I would therefore perhaps be open to accepting a partial refund and keeping the device as a PDA-sized linux device (The AU Laws allow for that), even if I never use it. But I think that if this were to happen I would maybe not feel cheated anymore and could possibly once again enjoy participating constructively in the community. I Look forward to hearing from you. Regards, - -Dale - ---BEGIN EMAIL THREAD--- Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: FreeRunner]] Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:19:34 +1100 From: Dale Maggee anti...@internode.on.net To: cont...@openmoko.com, s...@openmoko.com, st...@openmoko.com Having received absolutely no response whatsoever after more than a week, even after opening a refund ticker in trac (#36), I resend my email once again... - Original Message Subject: [Fwd: FreeRunner] Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 10:25:12 +1100 From: Dale Maggee anti...@internode.on.net To: cont...@openmoko.com CC: s...@openmoko.com, mic...@openmoko.org, st...@openmoko.com Having received no response whatsoever to my previous email, I'll send it again, and add a few more addresses. Hopefully I'll get a reply this time. Please see below. Regards, - -Dale - Original Message Subject: FreeRunner Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 16:35:41 +1100 From: Dale Maggee anti...@internode.on.net To: cont...@openmoko.com Hi, Please advise what is the process for getting my money back for my Neo Freerunner. Before I purchased this device almost a year ago, I was told that it could reliably make and recieve phone calls, as per Steve's email below. This is not, nor has it ever been the case - The device has *never* reliably made or recieved phone calls, it's overall stability is completely sub-par, and the ASU software stack mentioned turned out to be even less reliable and also slower than the original 2007.2 software stack. I have listened to Openmoko's promises regarding solving the issues, and these promises have not been met, repeatedly. In addition to this, as far as I can see, Openmoko's emphasis does not appear to be on stability or being able to use the device reliably as a phone, you seem to be more interested in building new frameworks from the ground up than actually making the device do what I bought it to do. While I'll agree that FSO may *one day* provide a usefull framework, it is presently far away from this goal (*still* no PIM!). In addition, a working phone that could be used as an everyday phone has a suspend mode, will happily go for more than 4-6 hours without being attached to a battery charger, and will actually wake up from suspend mode when appropriate (i.e if somebody calls). Thus this device does not do what you have told me
It Ain't funny [Was: Ain't it funny..]
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote: On Fri, May 08, 2009 at 03:34:40PM +0200, Marcel wrote: I'm sorry to contradict you (am I really?), but using Nazi slogans in such I call for the rule of Godwin's Law! Rui I had never heard of Godwin's Law until now! :O http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law I was sitting here puzzling over Marcel's comment, which I didn't understand: using this... deprecated language doesn't make me feel you really know what you're referencing there. This had me confused - I knew exactly what I meant! Totalitarian. I was trying to figure out what he was saying, and/or politely say I don't understand what you mean... then I read this: I wanted folks who glibly compared someone else to Hitler or to Nazis to think a bit harder about the Holocaust and I said to myself: Oh, shit... I have been very ignorant, and now realise that I have said something very inappropriate. And I humbly and sincerely apologise for that. I feel pretty bad about this, especially the part where I couldn't figure out what Marcel was trying to say. Now I understand. and I feel like a complete dick. Sorry. Generally when I hear the word nazi used, it means totalitarian, not monster or mass murderer - think of the soup nazi in Seinfeld. That's what I meant. Not the other. *At All*. Sorry. The wiki page also says: when an adversary uses an inappropriate Hitler or Nazi comparison, you have only to say 'Godwin's Law' and a trapdoor falls open, plunging your rival into a pool of hungry crocodiles. Oh Noes, not crocodiles! The wiki page fails to mention any possible exclusion from this horrible fate for cases of extreme ignorance followed by sincere repentance... is there any such exclusion, or are the crocs already gnawing at my stupid ass? Seriously, please accept my apologies for this. I have learned something today. Thank you for enlightening me. - -Dale -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKBFn/FbVnQRV3OEYRAtZKAKCUMaK3h6/h3h+9ky/xHoObRg5RJQCcClmG uI+eJe3qxhgy3sHyt/L5JkU= =dl+v -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Marcel wrote: Am Freitag, 8. Mai 2009 14:43:16 schrieb Dale Maggee: arne anka wrote: Guten Tag, Sieg Heil. ... beautiful and intelligent people in the world, and your country reflects that... :) ) wow. insulting and slimy at once! I'd just like to say thanks for addressing the points I make in such a calm and rational manner. If you were capable of being rational, you would have realised that I was referencing a totalitarian state, not a race, and then clarifying that I am not attempting to insult a race of people and that it's unfortunate that using your particular language happens to be a very effective way to express that. I do genuinely feel an affinity to your people, culture, and country. If you think that my being honest is being insulting and slimy, then whatever. I have already recieved one off-list email from a deutschlander who understood exactly what I was trying to say, so that indicates further to me that you're just being a fanboy and not thinking independently or even weighing my arguments - you see my posts, your mind closes, and you say troll like a reflex. And that's sad. If you would like to suggest a more appropriate way for me to have expressed what I wanted to, I would very much like to hear it. Note however that the sarcasm used in the greeting is important to my style, so any suggestion you might make would have to retain that. Also it would want to be short and effective. Alternatively, you're welcome to address the issues I'm raising. Or you could set up an email filter and consequently STFU. All are acceptable to me - I'm in favour of free speech. But true free speech requires rational dialogue, and I'm not seeing any rational dialogue from you. Dale, I'm sorry to contradict you (am I really?), but using Nazi slogans in such an affair is completely inappropriate. You may like our country as much as you want, still using this... deprecated language doesn't make me feel you really know what you're referencing there. There are WAY better examples for freedom of speech. This is no more rationale than you may think the other's contributions to be. Yours sincerely, Marcel Marcel, I'm sorry to contradict you (am I really?) You shouldn't be. I was wrong, and said something inappropriate through ignorance. Contradicting me is perfectly fine when I'm wrong - I'll learn from it! :) using this... deprecated language doesn't make me feel you really know what you're referencing there. Exactly. I had no Idea. I had meant one thing, and completely failed to realise that I was also implying something far, far worse. Please accept my apologies. I would also ask you to read my response to Rui's message. Kind Regards, - -Dale -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKBF4MFbVnQRV3OEYRAqrSAKCaC51cep8DVrh+GdDndgnVbJHiIACgtXiD iUHCezfGlmimfbP70xMuMkM= =iyY7 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Get your facts straight... he doesn't use an fr No, I don't use one, but I own one. That's the whole problem: I had to buy another phone, just to have a phone. and he does in no way contribute http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/NeoTool -- what do you call someone who lurks on a list he is in no way affiliated to Dunno. But that doesn't describe me. and posts repeatedly meanings consisting of only your point of interest is crap, everything you are talking about is crap and if you don't share my point of view you are idiots and nazis? This is what Christoph is talking about with his scientology reference - my emails are saying things that are not favorable to OM, and you therefore dismiss them without even really reading them. My emails contain significant points which you have entirely failed to address. Instead you focus on my tone, call me a troll, and tell me to shut up and go away. To me it sounds like you're not interested in freedom of speech. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKBHogFbVnQRV3OEYRAna3AJ0VQW4hncP6W31XJg7N+wDGOmIKlwCeOh+L wDixe2oUe1ALeokWfyzK85I= =KHzR -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Christoph Pulster wrote: IMO most misunderstandings happen because marketing of the Freerunner was focused on mobile phone. So customers expect a mobile phone to use as a mobile phone. However Freerunner is a multi-purpose developement plattform with GSM functionality among many other functionalities. Exactly. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKBHrGFbVnQRV3OEYRAu3WAJ44Rmh+zoBielVKEkBWkzgQEuZ2NwCdHfSg /zHYEEJ6KHRatvcK4q0EzbU= =J9CR -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: It Ain't funny [Was: Ain't it funny..]
Am Freitag, 8. Mai 2009 18:12:47 schrieb Dale Maggee: Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote: On Fri, May 08, 2009 at 03:34:40PM +0200, Marcel wrote: I'm sorry to contradict you (am I really?), but using Nazi slogans in such I call for the rule of Godwin's Law! Rui I had never heard of Godwin's Law until now! :O http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law I was sitting here puzzling over Marcel's comment, which I didn't understand: using this... deprecated language doesn't make me feel you really know what you're referencing there. This had me confused - I knew exactly what I meant! Totalitarian. I was trying to figure out what he was saying, and/or politely say I don't understand what you mean... then I read this: I wanted folks who glibly compared someone else to Hitler or to Nazis to think a bit harder about the Holocaust and I said to myself: Oh, shit... I have been very ignorant, and now realise that I have said something very inappropriate. And I humbly and sincerely apologise for that. I feel pretty bad about this, especially the part where I couldn't figure out what Marcel was trying to say. Now I understand. and I feel like a complete dick. Sorry. Generally when I hear the word nazi used, it means totalitarian, not monster or mass murderer - think of the soup nazi in Seinfeld. That's what I meant. Not the other. *At All*. Sorry. The wiki page also says: when an adversary uses an inappropriate Hitler or Nazi comparison, you have only to say 'Godwin's Law' and a trapdoor falls open, plunging your rival into a pool of hungry crocodiles. Oh Noes, not crocodiles! The wiki page fails to mention any possible exclusion from this horrible fate for cases of extreme ignorance followed by sincere repentance... is there any such exclusion, or are the crocs already gnawing at my stupid ass? Seriously, please accept my apologies for this. I have learned something today. Thank you for enlightening me. Accepted. -- Marcel ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: It Ain't funny [Was: Ain't it funny..]
On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 9:12 AM, Dale Maggee anti...@internode.on.net wrote: Generally when I hear the word nazi used, it means totalitarian, not monster or mass murderer - think of the soup nazi in Seinfeld. That's what I meant. Not the other. *At All*. Sorry. That just goes to show the meaning has gotten diluted from overuse, doesn't it. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
Dale Maggee wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Steve, I appreciate your replying to this thread. I would however point out that I believe that you should have already been aware of this issue before I raised it in this public mailing list: I sent three emails to Openmoko asking about getting a refund, and received no reply to any of them. I've pasted these emails below, after the ---BEGIN EMAIL THREAD--- Line. You were cc'd in two of these emails (the ones saying I've had no reply). I eventually got a response from Tony Tu on the trac ticket, at which point I stopped sending emails to you. Dale, as you can well imagine since I receive mail every single time a FR is ordered, since I receive mail every time we get a request for a return, since I receive mail from the community list and the developer list and since I received mail from cont...@openmoko univers...@openmoko.. oh heck every public mail we have plus I have my email on every press release, you can well imagine that I might have forgotten your name. But I didn't. Two people handled the RMAs on product purchased from OM store. And with Tony on the job I just assumed it would handled. I've been informed that we dont have a record a record of you purchasing the phone from us. That probably explains why Tony could not process the return. As I've indicated, I've already gone through the process of requesting a refund for the device, and this was declined. I think you should be able to find all the info you need at https://support.openmoko.com/trac/ticket/36 Yes. As I stated above we have no record of you purchaing the phone at our store: openmoko.com If you purchased it elsewhere please let me know. All of the guys here who have dealt with me will tell you that I'm a fair and reasonable person. I think that if you want to discuss the refund issue with me, it may be more appropriate to do so off-list, but I realise that I may have created a public image issue for you here (given my usage of the words thieves and defrauded), and that you may therefore want to keep this public. If you're willing to work with me to resolve my grievances and prove my assertions incorrect, then I'd be more than happy to come back here and retract my previous statements once it's resolved :). That might be more appropriate, rather than flooding the mailing list with what will effectively be back-and-forth personal conversations between you and me. but if you want to discuss it in this public place I have no problem with that either - up to you. Makes no difference to me. If I handled this privately I'm sure some lunatic down the road who slam me for taking it private and launch into yact, yet another conspiracy theory. You put your return request into the RMA process for the Openmoko store. For that process to work we have to be able to find you in the database. So, if you could verify that you did in fact purchase the phone from that store ( the sn and imei would help) Then I can do two things: 1. Figure out how the heck the system didnt capture your information 2. Process your return. WRT your language. If I took offense, then I'd be a thief. ( that's a joke.. took a fence) Seriously, I'm no person to lecture people about having a colorful way of expressing anger. I'll just say that some weapons have more collateral damage then others. And sometimes you can frag yourself, intentionally or otherwise, if you don't get clear of the blast zone. Since having my application for a refund declined, I had come to kind of accept that I had been screwed, and I have since bought another phone. Since I did that, I've (in my less angry moments) come to see the FR as a kind-of-cool little open-source device, as long as you don't want to use it as a phone. I haven't really done anything much with it, because so far I've been too angry to really even look at it, but I will admit that it does have potential for something, even if it's not as a reliable phone. I'll check from my side but did they give you a reason for being declined. (That's my whole point, by the way: That it's not a usable phone, even after a year of waiting, and I bought it because I wanted a working open source phone, and I was told that the FR would meet that requirement). I would therefore perhaps be open to accepting a partial refund and keeping the device as a PDA-sized linux device (The AU Laws allow for that), even if I never use it. But I think that if this were to happen I would maybe not feel cheated anymore and could possibly once again enjoy participating constructively in the community. Let's see what turns up when I get the ID numbers I requested. If you bought it from somebody else, then there might be a variety of remedies. But here in the states to process a return proof of purchase is required. Again, I'm not insinuating that you didnt
Speed of NAND flash vs. SD card (Was: Ain't it funny..)
On Tue, May 05, 2009 at 07:12:25AM -0600, Angus Ainslie wrote: You could always use the .tar.gz on an sd card ( It boots way faster that way anyway :) NAND flash ought to be a lot faster than Glamo's MMC interface. Where is the bug? FWIW, I tried a simple hdparm run on NOR flash, NAND flash and SD card: r...@debian-gta02:~# hdparm --direct -t /dev/mtdblock0 # NOR flash /dev/mtdblock0: Timing O_DIRECT disk reads:2 MB in 1.24 seconds = 1.61 MB/sec r...@debian-gta02:~# hdparm --direct -t /dev/mtdblock3 # NAND flash /dev/mtdblock3: Timing O_DIRECT disk reads:8 MB in 2.89 seconds = 2.77 MB/sec r...@debian-gta02:~# hdparm --direct -t /dev/mmcblk0# Glamo MMC /dev/mmcblk0: Timing O_DIRECT disk reads:8 MB in 3.46 seconds = 2.31 MB/sec -- Rask Ingemann Lambertsen Danish law requires addresses in e-mail to be logged and stored for a year ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
arne anka wrote: nope. he's just a troll. he's just saying what a lot of people are thinking I still hope to use my OM for *something*, but the chances of it ever being a reliable mobile phone are looking pretty slim. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Ain%27t-it-funny..-tp2791276p2833785.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Speed of NAND flash vs. SD card (Was: Ain't it funny..)
As a matter of fact, it's really slow to tar -xf .tar file, compared with my 2440 demo board. I takes me half a day to unzip the file system to sd card with fso image. If it's with my demo board to unzip, very quick, about 10min or so. What's wrong with fso image to unzip the tar package? On Thu, 2009-05-07 at 17:39 +0200, Rask Ingemann Lambertsen wrote: On Tue, May 05, 2009 at 07:12:25AM -0600, Angus Ainslie wrote: You could always use the .tar.gz on an sd card ( It boots way faster that way anyway :) NAND flash ought to be a lot faster than Glamo's MMC interface. Where is the bug? FWIW, I tried a simple hdparm run on NOR flash, NAND flash and SD card: r...@debian-gta02:~# hdparm --direct -t /dev/mtdblock0# NOR flash /dev/mtdblock0: Timing O_DIRECT disk reads:2 MB in 1.24 seconds = 1.61 MB/sec r...@debian-gta02:~# hdparm --direct -t /dev/mtdblock3# NAND flash /dev/mtdblock3: Timing O_DIRECT disk reads:8 MB in 2.89 seconds = 2.77 MB/sec r...@debian-gta02:~# hdparm --direct -t /dev/mmcblk0 # Glamo MMC /dev/mmcblk0: Timing O_DIRECT disk reads:8 MB in 3.46 seconds = 2.31 MB/sec -- Daniel.Li lida_m...@163.com PALFocus (http://palfocus.oicp.net) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 arne anka wrote: Bitter much? : ) nope. he's just a troll. Before I bought My Neo, I was told by OM that it would work as a phone. Once I got it and said WTF This doesn't work as a phone! I was told by OM that 2008.8 would. So I waited. It was worse than 2007.2. I was told that 2008.12 would be much better. So I waited. Was there even any difference? Sure, the animations might have been a bit smoother, or something, but it still didn't work as a phone. When I asked for my money back I was told that it had been too long since I placed my order... despite the fact that the only reason I waited so long was that I trusted OM when they said that I would eventually get a working phone. I contacted Consumer Affairs here in AU. They told me that OM were legally bound by our laws (which include a clause giving me the right to demand a refund if the item doesn't do what I was led to believe it would do). They told me that according to the letter of the law, OM were required to give me a refund. They also told me that since they're based overseas, there's basically no way to enforce it. In short: OM Have Lied to me, then violated the consumer protection laws they're bound to by selling a Neo to an Australian Citizen by refusing to refund my money. That means that *OpenMoko Are THIEVES*. Anything I say about them is justified. IMO you can't be a troll if you're in the right. And I am. I have been defrauded of $400. And so have you. The only difference is that I'm not willing to sit around pretending that being raped is all fun and games. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKA3cVFbVnQRV3OEYRArmhAJsHt3UILhaN/1Rjt30yL8+0jtOUPwCdHLMV gIMfLw0JvJV+o4sZQD9DYrY= =nJ+d -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
seriously... go write the prime minister or something. if your not going to contribute your just wasting everyone else's time On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Dale Maggee anti...@internode.on.net wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 arne anka wrote: Bitter much? : ) nope. he's just a troll. Before I bought My Neo, I was told by OM that it would work as a phone. Once I got it and said WTF This doesn't work as a phone! I was told by OM that 2008.8 would. So I waited. It was worse than 2007.2. I was told that 2008.12 would be much better. So I waited. Was there even any difference? Sure, the animations might have been a bit smoother, or something, but it still didn't work as a phone. When I asked for my money back I was told that it had been too long since I placed my order... despite the fact that the only reason I waited so long was that I trusted OM when they said that I would eventually get a working phone. I contacted Consumer Affairs here in AU. They told me that OM were legally bound by our laws (which include a clause giving me the right to demand a refund if the item doesn't do what I was led to believe it would do). They told me that according to the letter of the law, OM were required to give me a refund. They also told me that since they're based overseas, there's basically no way to enforce it. In short: OM Have Lied to me, then violated the consumer protection laws they're bound to by selling a Neo to an Australian Citizen by refusing to refund my money. That means that *OpenMoko Are THIEVES*. Anything I say about them is justified. IMO you can't be a troll if you're in the right. And I am. I have been defrauded of $400. And so have you. The only difference is that I'm not willing to sit around pretending that being raped is all fun and games. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKA3cVFbVnQRV3OEYRArmhAJsHt3UILhaN/1Rjt30yL8+0jtOUPwCdHLMV gIMfLw0JvJV+o4sZQD9DYrY= =nJ+d -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Guten Tag, Sieg Heil. Seriously... You may not have heard of it, but There's a concept that's been around for a while called Free speech... you know, as opposed to free beer. Goebbels was in favour of free speech for views he liked. So was Stalin. If you're really in favour of free speech, then you're in favour of freedom of speech for precisely for views you despise. Otherwise, you're not in favour of free speech. - Noam Chomsky I am contributing - contributing to Free Speech, and I'm doing my part to warn prospective customers against giving their money to thieves. If you're not in favour of free speech then I have two words for you: Email filter. But I'm not going anywhere. (Note: I know there are quite a few deutschlanders on this list, and my use of your language is not intended in any way as a slight against your people or country. On the contrary, I think that you're among the most beautiful and intelligent people in the world, and your country reflects that... :) ) jeremy jozwik wrote: seriously... go write the prime minister or something. if your not going to contribute your just wasting everyone else's time On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Dale Maggee anti...@internode.on.net wrote: arne anka wrote: Bitter much? : ) nope. he's just a troll. Before I bought My Neo, I was told by OM that it would work as a phone. Once I got it and said WTF This doesn't work as a phone! I was told by OM that 2008.8 would. So I waited. It was worse than 2007.2. I was told that 2008.12 would be much better. So I waited. Was there even any difference? Sure, the animations might have been a bit smoother, or something, but it still didn't work as a phone. When I asked for my money back I was told that it had been too long since I placed my order... despite the fact that the only reason I waited so long was that I trusted OM when they said that I would eventually get a working phone. I contacted Consumer Affairs here in AU. They told me that OM were legally bound by our laws (which include a clause giving me the right to demand a refund if the item doesn't do what I was led to believe it would do). They told me that according to the letter of the law, OM were required to give me a refund. They also told me that since they're based overseas, there's basically no way to enforce it. In short: OM Have Lied to me, then violated the consumer protection laws they're bound to by selling a Neo to an Australian Citizen by refusing to refund my money. That means that *OpenMoko Are THIEVES*. Anything I say about them is justified. IMO you can't be a troll if you're in the right. And I am. I have been defrauded of $400. And so have you. The only difference is that I'm not willing to sit around pretending that being raped is all fun and games. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKA4YGFbVnQRV3OEYRAk0JAKDEiDmdGUttRB9r++kN4fKL9zj6SQCgmDYR b1k8k42/YLwS2kBxx9dl778= =6xJM -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
Hi Dale. I got a note from the people who handle these issues. In looking through our store records we were unable to find any order from you at openmoko.com. That doesn't mean you haven't purchased a phone. If you could, provide me with the details of your purchase. Who you bought it from and when. Also, if you take the battery out you'll see a IMEI number and a serial number. That will help with tracking as well. So send those along as well. Best Regards Steve st...@openmoko.com Dale Maggee wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Guten Tag, Sieg Heil. Seriously... You may not have heard of it, but There's a concept that's been around for a while called Free speech... you know, as opposed to free beer. Goebbels was in favour of free speech for views he liked. So was Stalin. If you're really in favour of free speech, then you're in favour of freedom of speech for precisely for views you despise. Otherwise, you're not in favour of free speech. - Noam Chomsky I am contributing - contributing to Free Speech, and I'm doing my part to warn prospective customers against giving their money to thieves. If you're not in favour of free speech then I have two words for you: Email filter. But I'm not going anywhere. (Note: I know there are quite a few deutschlanders on this list, and my use of your language is not intended in any way as a slight against your people or country. On the contrary, I think that you're among the most beautiful and intelligent people in the world, and your country reflects that... :) ) jeremy jozwik wrote: seriously... go write the prime minister or something. if your not going to contribute your just wasting everyone else's time On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Dale Maggee anti...@internode.on.net wrote: arne anka wrote: Bitter much? : ) nope. he's just a troll. Before I bought My Neo, I was told by OM that it would work as a phone. Once I got it and said WTF This doesn't work as a phone! I was told by OM that 2008.8 would. So I waited. It was worse than 2007.2. I was told that 2008.12 would be much better. So I waited. Was there even any difference? Sure, the animations might have been a bit smoother, or something, but it still didn't work as a phone. When I asked for my money back I was told that it had been too long since I placed my order... despite the fact that the only reason I waited so long was that I trusted OM when they said that I would eventually get a working phone. I contacted Consumer Affairs here in AU. They told me that OM were legally bound by our laws (which include a clause giving me the right to demand a refund if the item doesn't do what I was led to believe it would do). They told me that according to the letter of the law, OM were required to give me a refund. They also told me that since they're based overseas, there's basically no way to enforce it. In short: OM Have Lied to me, then violated the consumer protection laws they're bound to by selling a Neo to an Australian Citizen by refusing to refund my money. That means that *OpenMoko Are THIEVES*. Anything I say about them is justified. IMO you can't be a troll if you're in the right. And I am. I have been defrauded of $400. And so have you. The only difference is that I'm not willing to sit around pretending that being raped is all fun and games. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKA4YGFbVnQRV3OEYRAk0JAKDEiDmdGUttRB9r++kN4fKL9zj6SQCgmDYR b1k8k42/YLwS2kBxx9dl778= =6xJM -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Risto H. Kurppa wrote: The community work seems to be slowing down now (because of the summer?) My guess would be that a whole lot of people have realised that their $400 Neo is better used as a boat anchor, and put them on ebay. or in the microwave. OM2009 testing 2 was released some days ago. So far ~3 e-mails on the list about it. New version of Mokomaze was released some days ago, too. Around 50 mails. To me this tells that people are more interested in Mokomaze than OM2009. Agreed - more people are interested in mokomaze, because they know what kind of godawful crap to expect from OM and are avoiding it like swine flu... which is strangely poetic IMHO (the metaphor of Neo as Swine Flu, that is). I'm starting to think that OM's real goal has always been to *not* produce a working distro, in the hopes that some genius would come along and do it for them. At which point they could say we don't need to make it work, Guy X has given us the excellent Distro Y... I mean, look at it from the company's perspective: They already have your money, and they know that they're totally mismanaged and will die out before producing another device. Also they're a dodgy Taiwanese company which makes them very difficult to prosecute under the consumer protection laws of less dodgy countries (even though they are technically legally bound by those laws), so what's in it for them to produce working software? -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKAUW/FbVnQRV3OEYRAq9RAJ9rObFB6hKp2V149Nh77rZdtZD34gCfRDAd klJyMizgksoWzba1EEJ6MKU= =R3Vr -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
Bitter much? : ) On Wed, 06 May 2009 18:09:35 +1000 Dale Maggee anti...@internode.on.net wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Risto H. Kurppa wrote: The community work seems to be slowing down now (because of the summer?) My guess would be that a whole lot of people have realised that their $400 Neo is better used as a boat anchor, and put them on ebay. or in the microwave. OM2009 testing 2 was released some days ago. So far ~3 e-mails on the list about it. New version of Mokomaze was released some days ago, too. Around 50 mails. To me this tells that people are more interested in Mokomaze than OM2009. Agreed - more people are interested in mokomaze, because they know what kind of godawful crap to expect from OM and are avoiding it like swine flu... which is strangely poetic IMHO (the metaphor of Neo as Swine Flu, that is). I'm starting to think that OM's real goal has always been to *not* produce a working distro, in the hopes that some genius would come along and do it for them. At which point they could say we don't need to make it work, Guy X has given us the excellent Distro Y... I mean, look at it from the company's perspective: They already have your money, and they know that they're totally mismanaged and will die out before producing another device. Also they're a dodgy Taiwanese company which makes them very difficult to prosecute under the consumer protection laws of less dodgy countries (even though they are technically legally bound by those laws), so what's in it for them to produce working software? -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKAUW/FbVnQRV3OEYRAq9RAJ9rObFB6hKp2V149Nh77rZdtZD34gCfRDAd klJyMizgksoWzba1EEJ6MKU= =R3Vr -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
Bitter much? : ) nope. he's just a troll. On Wed, 06 May 2009 18:09:35 +1000 Dale Maggee anti...@internode.on.net wrote: ... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
On Wednesday 06 May 2009 10:09:35 Dale Maggee wrote: Risto H. Kurppa wrote: The community work seems to be slowing down now (because of the summer?) My guess would be that a whole lot of people have realised that their $400 Neo is better used as a boat anchor, and put them on ebay. or in the microwave. I suppose for using Neo as a boat anchor, we might change Buzz Fix Parties by Lead fill parties :P ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hehe, what gave you that idea? ;) Yogiz wrote: Bitter much? : ) On Wed, 06 May 2009 18:09:35 +1000 Dale Maggee anti...@internode.on.net wrote: Risto H. Kurppa wrote: The community work seems to be slowing down now (because of the summer?) My guess would be that a whole lot of people have realised that their $400 Neo is better used as a boat anchor, and put them on ebay. or in the microwave. OM2009 testing 2 was released some days ago. So far ~3 e-mails on the list about it. New version of Mokomaze was released some days ago, too. Around 50 mails. To me this tells that people are more interested in Mokomaze than OM2009. Agreed - more people are interested in mokomaze, because they know what kind of godawful crap to expect from OM and are avoiding it like swine flu... which is strangely poetic IMHO (the metaphor of Neo as Swine Flu, that is). I'm starting to think that OM's real goal has always been to *not* produce a working distro, in the hopes that some genius would come along and do it for them. At which point they could say we don't need to make it work, Guy X has given us the excellent Distro Y... I mean, look at it from the company's perspective: They already have your money, and they know that they're totally mismanaged and will die out before producing another device. Also they're a dodgy Taiwanese company which makes them very difficult to prosecute under the consumer protection laws of less dodgy countries (even though they are technically legally bound by those laws), so what's in it for them to produce working software? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKAfK5FbVnQRV3OEYRAjygAJ0UDxAbT6Z3s/szm7mUPVBbVLIFWgCcDk0c 4MNuXjjU5vX0HgUT4+1hD5M= =z4n9 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Compatibility between deb and opkg (Was: Ain't it funny..)
Am Mittwoch, 6. Mai 2009 00:33:12 schrieb Rask Ingemann Lambertsen: On Tue, May 05, 2009 at 01:31:47PM +0200, Pander wrote: For better compatability between deb and opkg, I am still in favour of using the debian/ubuntu categories in opkg. See this thread from December: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-December/038472.ht ml and http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-December/038546.ht ml A significant incompatibility is that deb uses architectures 'armel' and 'any' while opkg uses 'armv4t' and 'all'. AFAIK there is no way of specifying to dpkg/apt that they are equivalent. Provided my assumption that debian has _way_ more packages then angstrom/$opkg-based, one could change the default arch of opkg packages. But this would need support from all parties, not just us. The technical part could be reduced to: - extract package - do some sed-magic to replace armv4t/all by armel/any - compress package again Am I missing something significant? :D Of course reality isn't as simple as that, but it sounds so comfortable... -- Marcel ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Ain't it funny..
The community work seems to be slowing down now (because of the summer?) and the the community doesn't seem to be pushing together for One Working Distro. We have about 15 distributions around but as far as I know (I haven't tested them all..), they all are 'developer skills required', not 'consumer friendly'. We've had Freerunner around now for about a year and there's still not a proper web browser around (packaged, 'just works'). Slow/buggy/not supporting JavaScript/etc... http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Browser_review OM2009 testing 2 was released some days ago. So far ~3 e-mails on the list about it. New version of Mokomaze was released some days ago, too. Around 50 mails. To me this tells that people are more interested in Mokomaze than OM2009. But still, we have open hardware that can be used as a daily phone. r -- | risto h. kurppa | risto at kurppa dot fi | http://risto.kurppa.fi ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
On Tuesday 05 May 2009 09:27:59 Risto H. Kurppa wrote: The community work seems to be slowing down now (because of the summer?) and the the community doesn't seem to be pushing together for One Working Distro. We have about 15 distributions around but as far as I know (I haven't tested them all..), they all are 'developer skills required', not 'consumer friendly'. We've had Freerunner around now for about a year and there's still not a proper web browser around (packaged, 'just works'). Slow/buggy/not supporting JavaScript/etc... http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Browser_review OM2009 testing 2 was released some days ago. So far ~3 e-mails on the list about it. New version of Mokomaze was released some days ago, too. Around 50 mails. To me this tells that people are more interested in Mokomaze than OM2009. But still, we have open hardware that can be used as a daily phone. r It is good time for you, start 16th distro, maintain it, and become famous. :) I don't think that is slowing down, and I'm sure community shouldn't work on one stable distro, just because software is more important. As for me I think classic distros maintainers(from Debian to Gentoo) should work on maintaining SHR/FSO/OM projects, because they have much more experience and resources to maintain software, and devs should developing. I'm using some not-very-latest SHR-testing, it is stable enough for me to use it as every day phone, and read IRC in subway. And it is fun, results not so fun as process, so you can start effort smth, and you will be more lucky. :) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
2009/5/5 Risto H. Kurppa ri...@kurppa.fi: The community work seems to be slowing down now (because of the summer?) and the the community doesn't seem to be pushing together for One Working Distro. We have about 15 distributions around but as far as I know (I haven't tested them all..), they all are 'developer skills required', not 'consumer friendly'. I dissgree, shr testing no need for developer skills, it just works as daily phone, it has passed the wife acceptance test his words: -Well, finally this thing seem to work, she was able to make and receive calls, sending sms, and also use the gps without more intructions than ocasional translation, We've had Freerunner around now for about a year and there's still not a proper web browser around (packaged, 'just works'). Slow/buggy/not supporting JavaScript/etc... http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Browser_review whoosh from Hackable1 is what you are searching for, I hope it will be ported son to opkg/OE based distros. OM2009 testing 2 was released some days ago. So far ~3 e-mails on the list about it. New version of Mokomaze was released some days ago, too. Around 50 mails. To me this tells that people are more interested in Mokomaze than OM2009. Not I'm not but I have honestly admint I'm waiting for the final OM2009 before start testing. But still, we have open hardware that can be used as a daily phone. r -- | risto h. kurppa | risto at kurppa dot fi | http://risto.kurppa.fi ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- David Reyes Samblas Martinez http://www.tuxbrain.com Open ultraportable embedded solutions Openmoko, Openpandora, GP2X the Wiz, Letux 400, Arduino Hey, watch out!!! There's a linux in your pocket!!! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 11:57 AM, Risto H. Kurppa ri...@kurppa.fi wrote: The community work seems to be slowing down now (because of the summer?) and the the community doesn't seem to be pushing together for One Working Distro. We have about 15 distributions around but as far as I know (I haven't tested them all..), they all are 'developer skills required', not 'consumer friendly'. We've had Freerunner around now for about a year and there's still not a proper web browser around (packaged, 'just works'). Slow/buggy/not supporting JavaScript/etc... http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Browser_review OM2009 testing 2 was released some days ago. So far ~3 e-mails on the list about it. New version of Mokomaze was released some days ago, too. Around 50 mails. To me this tells that people are more interested in Mokomaze than OM2009. But still, we have open hardware that can be used as a daily phone. r I have just moved from 2008.12 Kustomizer to SHR Testing and it works as a daily phone just fine. Chatted on pidgin for a long time yesterday without any problem for the first time. I shifted as I am traveling for the 2 months and wont be in office for regular updates so needed a stable phone for calling and sms. I think once paroli becomes non full screen (if it already has announcement needed) more people will be interested in OM 2009 as they can have a stable phone and also play mokomaze Rakshat ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 1:22 PM, rakshat hooja raks...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 11:57 AM, Risto H. Kurppa ri...@kurppa.fi wrote: The community work seems to be slowing down now (because of the summer?) and the the community doesn't seem to be pushing together for One Working Distro. We have about 15 distributions around but as far as I know (I haven't tested them all..), they all are 'developer skills required', not 'consumer friendly'. We've had Freerunner around now for about a year and there's still not a proper web browser around (packaged, 'just works'). Slow/buggy/not supporting JavaScript/etc... http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Browser_review OM2009 testing 2 was released some days ago. So far ~3 e-mails on the list about it. New version of Mokomaze was released some days ago, too. Around 50 mails. To me this tells that people are more interested in Mokomaze than OM2009. But still, we have open hardware that can be used as a daily phone. r I have just moved from 2008.12 Kustomizer to SHR Testing and it works as a daily phone just fine. Chatted on pidgin for a long time yesterday without any problem for the first time. I shifted as I am traveling for the 2 months and wont be in office for regular updates so needed a stable phone for calling and sms. I think once paroli becomes non full screen (if it already has announcement needed) more people will be interested in OM 2009 as they can have a stable phone and also play mokomaze Rakshat Ok just saw that going to Illume is now possible in OM 2009. Rakshat ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
David Samblas Martinez wrote: 2009/5/5 Risto H. Kurppa ri...@kurppa.fi: The community work seems to be slowing down now (because of the summer?) and the the community doesn't seem to be pushing together for One Working Distro. We have about 15 distributions around but as far as I know (I haven't tested them all..), they all are 'developer skills required', not 'consumer friendly'. I dissgree, shr testing no need for developer skills, it just works as daily phone. I agree. I'm using shr (switching from time to time between unstable and testing) as my daily phone since two months. There are a lot of things which needs polishing, some nasty bugs to fix, but overall it just works, and you can see progresses almost everyday. shr-settings is slow, but well-thought. GPS works fine. Yesterday i installed notifier, which was definitely a missing feature (i encourage the shr-guys to include it in the release). The UI is nice looking (but a bit slow), it is well themed (every apps have the same look, it doesn't look like a pile of things thrown together like in OM 2008-). I can show it to people without fearing getting joked. The point is that it's far from finished, but you can see that it's getting better everyday. And that's definitely a good thing : it makes user feeling confident. I am feeling confident. Before shr, i was starting to believe that my neo will remain a geek toy. The only thing i miss from my OM-200x days is better contact management. The most nasty bug i'm suffering currently is the unreliable gprs. I use it a lot, and there is a bug in FSO with the muxer which leads the modem to hang over high load. It seems that mickey implemented a fix, but it's not yet available on my testing. Also the battery life is still way too short, and sound in calls is crappy. But it works. David Samblas Martinez wrote: Not I'm not but I have honestly admint I'm waiting for the final OM2009 before start testing. So am i. I will definitely have a look at it, but when it is closer to the release. I know that OM needs bug reports. But i also want something which seems functionnal.. Plus i really like shr.. Also, about activity, don't forget that shr for example has its own mailing list (until last week hosted here too, but now hosted by themselves). About the mokomaze example, i would say it's like dictator, for example. The soft just works, and it's nice. People may get bored of always complaining. Bugs trackers are maybe a better place to report bugs than mailing lists, even if it can be good to discuss issues in the ML. I'll try to test OM2009 soon, because, you're right, it needs user feedback. But i didn't really want to wipe my working phone. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Ain%27t-it-funny..-tp2791276p2791563.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
On Tue, May 05, 2009 at 01:22:03PM +0530, rakshat hooja wrote: On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 11:57 AM, Risto H. Kurppa ri...@kurppa.fi wrote: The community work seems to be slowing down now (because of the summer?) and the the community doesn't seem to be pushing together for One Working Distro. We have about 15 distributions around but as far as I know (I haven't tested them all..), they all are 'developer skills required', not 'consumer friendly'. We've had Freerunner around now for about a year and there's still not a proper web browser around (packaged, 'just works'). Slow/buggy/not supporting JavaScript/etc... http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Browser_review OM2009 testing 2 was released some days ago. So far ~3 e-mails on the list about it. New version of Mokomaze was released some days ago, too. Around 50 mails. To me this tells that people are more interested in Mokomaze than OM2009. But still, we have open hardware that can be used as a daily phone. r I have just moved from 2008.12 Kustomizer to SHR Testing and it works as a daily phone just fine. Chatted on pidgin for a long time yesterday without any problem for the first time. I shifted as I am traveling for the 2 months and wont be in office for regular updates so needed a stable phone for calling and sms. I think once paroli becomes non full screen (if it already has announcement needed) more people will be interested in OM 2009 as they can have a stable phone and also play mokomaze Mirko helped me with this! Edit /etc/paroli.cfg (or /etc/paroli/paroli.conf, look for it since I don't know from heart and the phone is in another room), and set to true the activated status of advanced and restart paroli. Then press aux for about 2 seconds until the menu appears, select phone, then profile, then illume. WARNING: be tolerant and wait a few seconds (maybe 10 at most) until the UI stabilizes. Have fun! Rui -- Grudnuk demand sustenance! Today is Setting Orange, the 52nd day of Discord in the YOLD 3175 + No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown + Whatever you do will be insignificant, | but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi + So let's do it...? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra r...@1407.org wrote: On Tue, May 05, 2009 at 01:22:03PM +0530, rakshat hooja wrote: On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 11:57 AM, Risto H. Kurppa ri...@kurppa.fi wrote: The community work seems to be slowing down now (because of the summer?) and the the community doesn't seem to be pushing together for One Working Distro. We have about 15 distributions around but as far as I know (I haven't tested them all..), they all are 'developer skills required', not 'consumer friendly'. We've had Freerunner around now for about a year and there's still not a proper web browser around (packaged, 'just works'). Slow/buggy/not supporting JavaScript/etc... http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Browser_review OM2009 testing 2 was released some days ago. So far ~3 e-mails on the list about it. New version of Mokomaze was released some days ago, too. Around 50 mails. To me this tells that people are more interested in Mokomaze than OM2009. But still, we have open hardware that can be used as a daily phone. r I have just moved from 2008.12 Kustomizer to SHR Testing and it works as a daily phone just fine. Chatted on pidgin for a long time yesterday without any problem for the first time. I shifted as I am traveling for the 2 months and wont be in office for regular updates so needed a stable phone for calling and sms. I think once paroli becomes non full screen (if it already has announcement needed) more people will be interested in OM 2009 as they can have a stable phone and also play mokomaze Mirko helped me with this! Edit /etc/paroli.cfg (or /etc/paroli/paroli.conf, look for it since I don't know from heart and the phone is in another room), and set to true the activated status of advanced and restart paroli. Then press aux for about 2 seconds until the menu appears, select phone, then profile, then illume. WARNING: be tolerant and wait a few seconds (maybe 10 at most) until the UI stabilizes. Have fun! Rui -- Grudnuk demand sustenance! Today is Setting Orange, the 52nd day of Discord in the YOLD 3175 + No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown + Whatever you do will be insignificant, | but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi + So let's do it...? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community I am also still working on Tichy [1] when I have time (that is not so much I am afraid). I plan a new release soon. The next version will (hopefully) have : full screen switch, improved keyboard, a new style, a terminal application, support for exporting PIM data to org-mode format, and a lot of code cleaning. -gui [0] http://code.google.com/p/tichy/ -- http://charlie137.blogspot.com/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
Edit /etc/paroli.cfg (or /etc/paroli/paroli.conf, look for it since I don't know from heart and the phone is in another room), and set to true the activated status of advanced and restart paroli. lol a few corrections only: in /etc/paroli/paroli.conf enable settings: [settings] activated = True Then press aux for about 2 seconds until the menu appears, select phone, then profile, then illume. WARNING: be tolerant and wait a few seconds (maybe 10 at most) until the UI stabilizes. select display - profile and click on paroli, it will change to illume Have fun! yes :) -- Petr Vaněk ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
Am Dienstag, 5. Mai 2009 08:27:59 schrieb Risto H. Kurppa: OM2009 testing 2 was released some days ago. So far ~3 e-mails on the list about it. New version of Mokomaze was released some days ago, too. Around 50 mails. To me this tells that people are more interested in Mokomaze than OM2009. I just prefer Debian over all these opkg-based distros because I love apt and the huge Debian repositories (besides also having sid on my desktop). Opkg-packaged software is being spread over various repos which one shouldn't mix too much and opkg simply feels ... unfriendly. On the other hand the fso stuff for example (not even thinking about elementary) gets packaged for opkg first and later for Debian, but there's always a downside... :) -- Marcel ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
Marcel wrote: Am Dienstag, 5. Mai 2009 08:27:59 schrieb Risto H. Kurppa: OM2009 testing 2 was released some days ago. So far ~3 e-mails on the list about it. New version of Mokomaze was released some days ago, too. Around 50 mails. To me this tells that people are more interested in Mokomaze than OM2009. I just prefer Debian over all these opkg-based distros because I love apt and the huge Debian repositories (besides also having sid on my desktop). Opkg-packaged software is being spread over various repos which one shouldn't mix too much and opkg simply feels ... unfriendly. On the other hand the fso stuff for example (not even thinking about elementary) gets packaged for opkg first and later for Debian, but there's always a downside... :) For better compatability between deb and opkg, I am still in favour of using the debian/ubuntu categories in opkg. See this thread from December: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-December/038472.html and http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-December/038546.html -- Marcel ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
On Tue, 2009-05-05 at 01:04 -0700, KaZeR wrote: I'll try to test OM2009 soon, because, you're right, it needs user feedback. But i didn't really want to wipe my working phone. You could always use the .tar.gz on an sd card ( It boots way faster that way anyway :) Angus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
i barely use my phone so openmoko is working great as a ogg and gps tool. On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 6:12 AM, Angus Ainslie nyt...@openmoko.org wrote: On Tue, 2009-05-05 at 01:04 -0700, KaZeR wrote: I'll try to test OM2009 soon, because, you're right, it needs user feedback. But i didn't really want to wipe my working phone. You could always use the .tar.gz on an sd card ( It boots way faster that way anyway :) Angus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ain't it funny..
Angus Ainslie-2 (via Nabble) a écrit : On Tue, 2009-05-05 at 01:04 -0700, KaZeR wrote: I'll try to test OM2009 soon, because, you're right, it needs user feedback. But i didn't really want to wipe my working phone. You could always use the .tar.gz on an sd card ( It boots way faster that way anyway :) Indeed, but i'll have to buy another uSD card. Well, it's not expensive anyway :) -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Ain%27t-it-funny..-tp2791276p2801283.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Compatibility between deb and opkg (Was: Ain't it funny..)
On Tue, May 05, 2009 at 01:31:47PM +0200, Pander wrote: For better compatability between deb and opkg, I am still in favour of using the debian/ubuntu categories in opkg. See this thread from December: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-December/038472.html and http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-December/038546.html A significant incompatibility is that deb uses architectures 'armel' and 'any' while opkg uses 'armv4t' and 'all'. AFAIK there is no way of specifying to dpkg/apt that they are equivalent. -- Rask Ingemann Lambertsen Danish law requires addresses in e-mail to be logged and stored for a year ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
