Re: Debuzzing
Now my lovely lil' Neo is back, and is (as far as I can tell) buzz-free. Thanks a lot guys. These are initiatives that makes me happy I bought an FR, no matter how many problems occured/still occurs. -- Olivier ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
Olivier Migeot a écrit : Now my lovely lil' Neo is back, and is (as far as I can tell) buzz-free. Thanks a lot guys. These are initiatives that makes me happy I bought an FR, no matter how many problems occured/still occurs. Mine is back too, after a nice trip to Germany... it just told me I'm sorry I lost my buzz in München... :P Thanks Dr N. for what you did ! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 While it took a bit longer than I had originally expected, I'm now proud owner of a buzz-free Freerunner :D Congrats to Dr. Schaller for making this happen - and congrats for OM for supporting this. Let's all not forget that other phones have problems too. It is the open nature of this project that allows us to actually fix the shortcomings other people would have to live with. Regards, Andreas Fischer -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAko1W9kACgkQ5Fl7TYZQYwF5uQCfQ1vkpBky6xOqGanKy9W2dB4T pLQAn3nFpZuBZ0bNO9nqImbQoqZRHXvR =6nIc -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
I would like to thank all the people involved in buzz fixing too! You made a very good point a lot of people are forgetting about that other phones are not without the problems. We just don't know about most of them because there is no strong community around them. With the openmoko community it was possible to found the problem and to fix it. I was proud to buy this phone when it was released and I'm still proud to have it! Leonti On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 2:21 PM, Andreas Cyberfrag Fischercyberf...@gmx.net wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 While it took a bit longer than I had originally expected, I'm now proud owner of a buzz-free Freerunner :D Congrats to Dr. Schaller for making this happen - and congrats for OM for supporting this. Let's all not forget that other phones have problems too. It is the open nature of this project that allows us to actually fix the shortcomings other people would have to live with. Regards, Andreas Fischer -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAko1W9kACgkQ5Fl7TYZQYwF5uQCfQ1vkpBky6xOqGanKy9W2dB4T pLQAn3nFpZuBZ0bNO9nqImbQoqZRHXvR =6nIc -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing in the UK?
Hi, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: [debuzzing in the UK] http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Buzz-Rework Just as far as your nearest Royal Mail... I'd just like to say that I sent my phone to Dr. N. for debuzzing (I live in the UK) and he was friendly and helpful. If everyone in business answered e-mails so quickly even when a sail doesn't directly depend on it, the world would be a better place. Jon. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Debuzzing in the UK?
Hi all, It's been a while since I looked at getting the buzz on my FreeRunner fixed up, after having no luck finding anyone with the right equipment to be able to perform it amongst local friends and contacts, so I figured I'd throw a message out on here to see if anyone can point me in the direction of anyone in the United Kingdom who has the tools, time, and inclination to perform the fix for me. :) Has anyone any experience with getting someone in this area performing the fix? Thanks in advance, Dave ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing in the UK?
http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Buzz-Rework Just as far as your nearest Royal Mail... BR, Nikolaus Am 10.06.2009 um 09:08 schrieb Dave Smith: Hi all, It's been a while since I looked at getting the buzz on my FreeRunner fixed up, after having no luck finding anyone with the right equipment to be able to perform it amongst local friends and contacts, so I figured I'd throw a message out on here to see if anyone can point me in the direction of anyone in the United Kingdom who has the tools, time, and inclination to perform the fix for me. :) Has anyone any experience with getting someone in this area performing the fix? Thanks in advance, Dave ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing in the UK?
Many thanks. Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Buzz-Rework Just as far as your nearest Royal Mail... BR, Nikolaus Am 10.06.2009 um 09:08 schrieb Dave Smith: Hi all, It's been a while since I looked at getting the buzz on my FreeRunner fixed up, after having no luck finding anyone with the right equipment to be able to perform it amongst local friends and contacts, so I figured I'd throw a message out on here to see if anyone can point me in the direction of anyone in the United Kingdom who has the tools, time, and inclination to perform the fix for me. :) Has anyone any experience with getting someone in this area performing the fix? Thanks in advance, Dave ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing in the UK?
nice one. I'd been wondering about that. Tim Abell Berks, UK Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Buzz-Rework Just as far as your nearest Royal Mail... BR, Nikolaus Am 10.06.2009 um 09:08 schrieb Dave Smith: Hi all, It's been a while since I looked at getting the buzz on my FreeRunner fixed up, after having no luck finding anyone with the right equipment to be able to perform it amongst local friends and contacts, so I figured I'd throw a message out on here to see if anyone can point me in the direction of anyone in the United Kingdom who has the tools, time, and inclination to perform the fix for me. :) Has anyone any experience with getting someone in this area performing the fix? Thanks in advance, Dave ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Am 30.05.2009 15:17, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller schrieb: Am 29.05.2009 um 17:24 schrieb Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller: I should add the status of the Buzz-Rework: * I have received back today all devices that we have received so far until approx. beginning of this week. They will now go to testing and then shipment. All units have passed the tests and will be shipped after this (long) weekend. Any news on the next batch? GDC reportedly has received my FreeRunner nearly two weeks ago and I haven't heard anything since. I had hoped to get it back until Monday since I'm out of country the rest of the week and could use a GPS. ATM it looks like I have to wait a third week, though... Regards, Andreas Fischer Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkorBYcACgkQ5Fl7TYZQYwEJuACfaqVT5VFvKdDceIc/F5u8H1q3 SF0AnRlqNiS6oYYXFmApPykSuBFVTI2t =sMBK -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller schrieb: Dear community, it is the philisophy of Golden Delicious Computers to find solutions for important topics that the community has and can't solve alone. Therefore, we (Golden Delicious Computers and TRIsoft) have worked behind the scenes and are close to offer a Buzz rework solution that can in principle serve all Freerunner Owners in the EU harmonized market. This is great! I have a small question: My Freerunner has a full body InvisibleShield applied. Should I remove it from the Freerunner before sending it in, or can I leave it on? Regards, Thomas ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
Thanks to a very special delivery service by Dr.N himself (thanks again, and sorry for the inconvenience that followed!) I was able to test my Buzz-Fixed FR over the weekend and must say I am quite impressed: With a new alsa statefile nobody was complaining about buzz, echo or general lack of loudness anymore! Since the battery lasted the whole saturday afternoon ( GPS on, GSM off) I hope the current consumption of ~300mA that I got this morning can be attributed to some software changes only, so I guess operation buzzfix was sucessfull! So thanks again and a big thumbs-up for Nikolaus who made this possible in the most customer-friendly way! Stefan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
Joerg, Dr. N and I have been discussing this. There is no need for the HWD fix of 1024 as there is a software fix. The hwdware fix of 1024 would require much more work than the debuzzing. Joerg recommends against it. I would agree. I can have him come on here and explain. Even if the fix were required we would still have to do a lot of work before it could be fielded. So, dont wait. get your phone buzz fixed and use the software fix for 1024. A hardware fix is not likely. Tha_Man wrote: Ole Langbehn wrote: Hello Nikolaus, what are the odds of including the hw fix for bug #1024 (oscillating recamping) into the procedure once it's official (or even before that)? I'm trying to decide if I wait a little bit more with sending in my FR to squash both issues at the same time. Regards, -- This is a good question, I'm wondering the same thing: is there a chance Golden Delicious Computers will offer a fix to bug #1024 within a few weeks and if so, will it be possible to send in your FR and have both bugs fixed at the same time? I'm considering sending my FR in for the debuzzing fix, but the latter case would obviously have my preference :-) Kind regards, Jeroen a.k.a. Tha_Man ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
Steve Mosher wrote: Joerg, Dr. N and I have been discussing this. There is no need for the HWD fix of 1024 as there is a software fix. The hwdware fix of 1024 would require much more work than the debuzzing. Joerg recommends against it. I would agree. I can have him come on here and explain. Even if the fix were required we would still have to do a lot of work before it could be fielded. So, dont wait. get your phone buzz fixed and use the software fix for 1024. A hardware fix is not likely. Oh. You probably mean this: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/hardware/2009-May/001208.html ;-) I don't know how I've missed that mail. So no need to make Joerg come here. Thanks. I'll send my FR for debuzzing. Kind regards, -- Lech Karol Pawłaszek ike You will never see me fall from grace [KoRn] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
as there is a software fix. imo it is still a workaround, not a fix. and standby time jumping up 25% looks a lot to me. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
Am 01.06.2009 um 10:46 schrieb arne anka: as there is a software fix. imo it is still a workaround, not a fix. For the GSM-Buzz there was not even a SW workaround for those who have been affected. So it had to be fixed. We have estimated that reworking the #1024 is at least 4 times as expensive (because it is done manually and needs much more time to open the GSM shield; how testing could work is also unclear). Therefore, we decided not to offer it as a rework service (since there *is* a solution available). and standby time jumping up 25% looks a lot to me. If you find a way to DIY to gain these 25%, please share with us. Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
Am 01.06.2009 um 13:16 schrieb Paul Fertser: Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org writes: and standby time jumping up 25% looks a lot to me. If you find a way to DIY to gain these 25%, please share with us. In fact overall time required for hand rework is roughly equal for both buzz and #1024 fixes. If one has already dismounted the can The key difference is the word if already dismounted the can. (quite easy if one is careful) then changing that particular capacitor is not a problem at all for a skilled person, it's SMT0805 size, big enough comparing to 0402 R and it's very conveniently located. This is for purely informational purposes for DIY-ers, i'm not recommending any distributors to offer this rework, quite the opposite. Thanks for this description which will help DIY-ers! Our reworker just opens the two torx screws, unclips the front cover and then does the Buzz-Rework under a microscope. Then, the front cover is clipped back and torx screws are replaced. This keeps rework cost low even in a high-wage country like Germany (which is still more than the 3 EUR we formally charge - Openmoko is sponsoring the rework). For opening the GSM shield you have to dismantle the whole PCB from the Freerunner plastics and then open the can. Doing the reverse direction means to put the power and aux buttons in place, make sure that the vibramotor and speaker give contact etc. and everything snaps back. This all sums to approx. 4 times as many minutes. That is the time that adds up in our calculation. So if we find a way to apply it without opening the can and dismantling the PCB, it will be the same speed. So it is the simplicity of the buzz-rework that made us start this adventure but more complex reworks are beyond our limits... Aother note to all who read this: the Buzz rework is only required if you have the Buzz problem. If your device does not, there is no need to rework. My personal estimate is that 5% of users have experienced it. And if you don't own a Freerunner yet, you don't necessarily have to wait for A7 devices. So purchasing an A6 is still a good bet. Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org writes: In fact overall time required for hand rework is roughly equal for both buzz and #1024 fixes. If one has already dismounted the can The key difference is the word if already dismounted the can. I would require those who wants that #1024 rework to be performed to just send a bare board with can dismounted. Probably i'm dead wrong, but i disassembled and assembled my FR many times and i dismounted the GSM can without problems. -- Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software! mailto:fercer...@gmail.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 12:33 AM, Steve Mosher st...@openmoko.com wrote: Joerg, Dr. N and I have been discussing this. There is no need for the HWD fix of 1024 as there is a software fix. The hwdware fix of 1024 would require much more work than the debuzzing. Joerg recommends against it. I would agree. I can have him come on here and explain. Even if the fix were required we would still have to do a lot of work before it could be fielded. So, dont wait. get your phone buzz fixed Steve, I would love to, but how? I live in the US, the vendor I bought my phone from has been apparently ignoring my emails about this and when I called them to ask they told me that they're not getting answers from Openmoko. It's been over 9 months since I first contacted them about the buzz. --Ori Pessach ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
Agreed. I've not heard about the jump in standby time, but joerg mentioned something about that ( as i recall). arne anka wrote: as there is a software fix. imo it is still a workaround, not a fix. and standby time jumping up 25% looks a lot to me. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
Hmm.. You say that the buzz rework is only required by people who have the buzz problem.How do we tell the difference between the buzz problem and a badly tuned gsmhandset.state? My situation is that when I talk to people on the FR I generally hear them very clearly, but they get a lot of static on their side - is that the buzz problem? Or is that something I can fix by tweaking the gsmhandset.state file? I'm using OM2009 TR4 btw - switching from the default alsa state file to http://www.kurppa.fi/freerunner/config_files/gsmhandset.state seemed to help the static, but it's still pretty bad... Warren On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 8:03 AM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.orgwrote: Am 01.06.2009 um 13:16 schrieb Paul Fertser: Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org writes: and standby time jumping up 25% looks a lot to me. If you find a way to DIY to gain these 25%, please share with us. In fact overall time required for hand rework is roughly equal for both buzz and #1024 fixes. If one has already dismounted the can The key difference is the word if already dismounted the can. (quite easy if one is careful) then changing that particular capacitor is not a problem at all for a skilled person, it's SMT0805 size, big enough comparing to 0402 R and it's very conveniently located. This is for purely informational purposes for DIY-ers, i'm not recommending any distributors to offer this rework, quite the opposite. Thanks for this description which will help DIY-ers! Our reworker just opens the two torx screws, unclips the front cover and then does the Buzz-Rework under a microscope. Then, the front cover is clipped back and torx screws are replaced. This keeps rework cost low even in a high-wage country like Germany (which is still more than the 3 EUR we formally charge - Openmoko is sponsoring the rework). For opening the GSM shield you have to dismantle the whole PCB from the Freerunner plastics and then open the can. Doing the reverse direction means to put the power and aux buttons in place, make sure that the vibramotor and speaker give contact etc. and everything snaps back. This all sums to approx. 4 times as many minutes. That is the time that adds up in our calculation. So if we find a way to apply it without opening the can and dismantling the PCB, it will be the same speed. So it is the simplicity of the buzz-rework that made us start this adventure but more complex reworks are beyond our limits... Aother note to all who read this: the Buzz rework is only required if you have the Buzz problem. If your device does not, there is no need to rework. My personal estimate is that 5% of users have experienced it. And if you don't own a Freerunner yet, you don't necessarily have to wait for A7 devices. So purchasing an A6 is still a good bet. Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Warren Baird - Photographer and Digital Artist http://www.synergisticimages.ca ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
Getting a focused effort in the US has been problematic. The reason is simple. The vast majority of sales in the US have been through the OM store. The disty, therefore, don't have the same motivation that say Dr. N has. neither do they have the resources required. The best thing, the most logical thing would be for OM in the US to set up a program just like Dr. N did. The problem? OM usa is me. Part of the reason the deal worked with Dr. N is that he was able to do all the detailed ground work required to get this done. I would have to execute the fix by myself. That's no simple feat, but now that Dr. N has shown the way, I can look into copying his effort. basically I'm a marketing guy, but if need be I'll be the customer support, feild rework, logistics guy. In the US it might require a different approach, but I can start to look into it. Ori Pessach wrote: On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 12:33 AM, Steve Mosher st...@openmoko.com wrote: Joerg, Dr. N and I have been discussing this. There is no need for the HWD fix of 1024 as there is a software fix. The hwdware fix of 1024 would require much more work than the debuzzing. Joerg recommends against it. I would agree. I can have him come on here and explain. Even if the fix were required we would still have to do a lot of work before it could be fielded. So, dont wait. get your phone buzz fixed Steve, I would love to, but how? I live in the US, the vendor I bought my phone from has been apparently ignoring my emails about this and when I called them to ask they told me that they're not getting answers from Openmoko. It's been over 9 months since I first contacted them about the buzz. --Ori Pessach ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 10:05 AM, Steve Mosher st...@openmoko.com wrote: Getting a focused effort in the US has been problematic. The reason is simple. The vast majority of sales in the US have been through the OM store. The disty, therefore, don't have the same motivation that say Dr. N has. neither do they have the resources required. The best thing, the most logical thing would be for OM in the US to set up a program just like Dr. N did. The problem? OM usa is me. Part of the reason the deal worked with Dr. N is that he was able to do all the detailed ground work required to get this done. I would have to execute the fix by myself. That's no simple feat, but now that Dr. N has shown the way, I can look into copying his effort. basically I'm a marketing guy, but if need be I'll be the customer support, feild rework, logistics guy. In the US it might require a different approach, but I can start to look into it. Steve, I do realize that coordinating this is a challenge, but in this case it seems like the vendor I bought my phone from is trying to work with Openmoko, and isn't getting a satisfactory response, or any response at all if I take their version of the story to be true - which I have no reason not to. Since I've been waiting for a fix for nearly 10 months, I feel I've been extremely patient. But even my patience (which is otherwise legendary, I can assure you) runs out. What would you suggest that I do at this point? --Ori Pessach ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Aother note to all who read this: the Buzz rework is only required if you have the Buzz problem. Hmm, wasn't there an environmental component as well, i.e., band and signal strength ? So changes in the network, e.g., traveling, moving, or the provider messing with things, might bring buzz to phones that still lacked that experience. - Werner ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
Werner Almesberger wer...@openmoko.org writes: Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Aother note to all who read this: the Buzz rework is only required if you have the Buzz problem. Hmm, wasn't there an environmental component as well, i.e., band and signal strength ? So changes in the network, e.g., traveling, moving, or the provider messing with things, might bring buzz to phones that still lacked that experience. AFAICT, you're completely right. I can't fully understand why Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller thinks that the buzz rework is not always required (probably some people never travel/move and use the same band and network without provider doing anything). OTOH if a person uses FR as a phone for a year and doesn't experience the buzz problem and he is not going to change network or places where he uses his phone, probably chances he'll get problems with buzz are low. I'd say that's something that every person should decide for himself, the only thing that needs stressing is there's no buzz-free devices (unless it's A7 or a reworked one), there're some good external conditions which might or might not eventually change. Probably Joerg will want to comment more. -- Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software! mailto:fercer...@gmail.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
Aother note to all who read this: the Buzz rework is only required if you have the Buzz problem. Hmm, wasn't there an environmental component as well, i.e., band and signal strength ? So changes in the network, e.g., traveling, moving, or the provider messing with things, might bring buzz to phones that still lacked that experience. as far as i understood the issue, the buzz is there by design and not to be solved by tewaking a state file. thus, while actually experiencing that buzz is subject to several factors, otoh nobody can be said to be sure not to be bitten by it. conclusion: everyone having access to the buzz fix should take hold of it. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
See inline below Ori Pessach wrote: On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 10:05 AM, Steve Mosher st...@openmoko.com wrote: Getting a focused effort in the US has been problematic. The reason is simple. The vast majority of sales in the US have been through the OM store. The disty, therefore, don't have the same motivation that say Dr. N has. neither do they have the resources required. The best thing, the most logical thing would be for OM in the US to set up a program just like Dr. N did. The problem? OM usa is me. Part of the reason the deal worked with Dr. N is that he was able to do all the detailed ground work required to get this done. I would have to execute the fix by myself. That's no simple feat, but now that Dr. N has shown the way, I can look into copying his effort. basically I'm a marketing guy, but if need be I'll be the customer support, feild rework, logistics guy. In the US it might require a different approach, but I can start to look into it. Steve, I do realize that coordinating this is a challenge, but in this case it seems like the vendor I bought my phone from is trying to work with Openmoko, and isn't getting a satisfactory response, or any response at all if I take their version of the story to be true - which I have no reason not to. Well, I put together a rework plan for all the distributors. It was a program to rework existing stock. That was phase 1. That program was supposed to be administered by 1 employee at OM. I'll have to check and see if that task was completed. PHASE TWO of the program was to figure out a way to rework devices already in the hands of end users. Dr. N and I have been discussing an approach for a while. And he has just proved that it can work. Understand, Dr. N set up his whole program: he found the technician. he got a quote. he prepare his website to take orders for the program. When he had that all set up he came to me and said: here is my proposal: the customer does this, GDC does that, and OM compensates me in this fashion. So, Sean and I said yes to the deal. That's basically what it would take. You can just have the vendor write me directly with their proposal. If they pattern their proposal after Dr. Ns proposal then I have a good basis to make my case. But you have to understand the issue of scale here. Dr. N offers the service a larger pool of customers. So his technician, of course, can offer a better price. There is a learning curve in doing this fix. If your vendor sold 100 phones, he can expect to get 5 people to mail in phones for a buzz fix. To service these 5 people he has to do a bunch of work. he would be better off just shipping you a A7 for free. But if he openly offered exchanges, then people without the buzz problem could just take advantage of the situation. Since I've been waiting for a fix for nearly 10 months, I feel I've been extremely patient. But even my patience (which is otherwise legendary, I can assure you) runs out. What would you suggest that I do at this point? Have your vendor write me directly. I can see what can be done. They would have to, at minimum, pattern their proposal after Dr. Ns proposal. Find a technician to do the rework. get a quote from him. Establish a way for US owners to ship their product in. Arrange for the rework and adminster it. negotiate a reimbursement package from OM. etc. other ideas? --Ori Pessach ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
YA, When I first started putting the program together I asked Tony Tu to get me a test protocal for incoming. Engineering ( and others) then pointed out that the Buzz problem was conditioned by enviromental factors that we CND ( could not duplicate) such that a phone with Buzz in the feild may not exhibit it at the test site ( For example, I never had phones buzz for me, even when sean flew out with a phone to show me the buzz) And a phone without buzz in the field may exhibit it at the test site. So, I dropped the requirement for an incoming test protocal. My logic was this. The circuit was known to manifest the problem under certain circumstances. Its clear that RF gets on the line and clear also that the CAP fix, if properly applied, reduces the symptoms, both in theory and in practice. So, if we offer the buzz fix to all, some small fraction of people who do not have the problem will still want the fix. If they are willing to part with their phone for a week or so to get a fix they dont need, then go ahead and fix it. Werner Almesberger wrote: Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Aother note to all who read this: the Buzz rework is only required if you have the Buzz problem. Hmm, wasn't there an environmental component as well, i.e., band and signal strength ? So changes in the network, e.g., traveling, moving, or the provider messing with things, might bring buzz to phones that still lacked that experience. - Werner ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
Ole Langbehn wrote: Hello Nikolaus, what are the odds of including the hw fix for bug #1024 (oscillating recamping) into the procedure once it's official (or even before that)? I'm trying to decide if I wait a little bit more with sending in my FR to squash both issues at the same time. Regards, -- This is a good question, I'm wondering the same thing: is there a chance Golden Delicious Computers will offer a fix to bug #1024 within a few weeks and if so, will it be possible to send in your FR and have both bugs fixed at the same time? I'm considering sending my FR in for the debuzzing fix, but the latter case would obviously have my preference :-) Kind regards, Jeroen a.k.a. Tha_Man -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Debuzzing-tp2736682p3003344.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
Tha_Man wrote: [...] Ole Langbehn wrote: [...] what are the odds of including the hw fix for bug #1024 (oscillating recamping) into the procedure once it's official (or even before that)? I'm trying to decide if I wait a little bit more with sending in my FR to squash both issues at the same time. [...] This is a good question, I'm wondering the same thing: is there a chance Golden Delicious Computers will offer a fix to bug #1024 within a few weeks and if so, will it be possible to send in your FR and have both bugs fixed at the same time? Just to point up that there are more of us which think that this is a very good question. I'm considering sending my FR in for the debuzzing fix, but the latter case would obviously have my preference :-) ;-) same here. I'll most probably send my FR for debuzzing, however IF I can send it only once that would be awesome. Kind regards, -- Lech Karol Pawłaszek ike You will never see me fall from grace [KoRn] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
Am 29.05.2009 um 17:24 schrieb Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller: I should add the status of the Buzz-Rework: * I have received back today all devices that we have received so far until approx. beginning of this week. They will now go to testing and then shipment. All units have passed the tests and will be shipped after this (long) weekend. Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
Hello Nikolaus, what are the odds of including the hw fix for bug #1024 (oscillating recamping) into the procedure once it's official (or even before that)? I'm trying to decide if I wait a little bit more with sending in my FR to squash both issues at the same time. Regards, -- Freie Software durch Bücherkauf fördern | http://bookzilla.de/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
#1024 was: Re: Debuzzing
what are the odds of including the hw fix for bug #1024 (oscillating for those wondering like me: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/hardware/2009-May/001192.html seems, finally for the recamping a fix has been found. a new round of fix-parties is to be expected, i assume. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
I can ask Openmoko if I can get the batteries for the buzz fixes I've been doing (round about 70 now) and then send them out. I doubt they that certainly would be nice! will ship directly to you because of the overhead involved. which means overhead for you ... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
Am 23.05.2009 um 18:30 schrieb Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller: Am 23.05.2009 um 14:04 schrieb Yorick Moko: any news on the repair? Rework has been started this week and the first units have been shipped back. A second batch has been reworked. I will test devices tomorrow and then ship out. Nikolaus Mobile Office Solutions by Golden Delicious Computers GmbHCo. KG Buchenstr. 3 D-82041 Oberhaching +49-89-54290367 http://www.handheld-linux.com AG München, HRA 89571 VAT DE253626266 Komplementär: Golden Delicious Computers Verwaltungs GmbH Oberhaching, AG München, HRB 16602 Geschäftsführer: Dr. Nikolaus Schaller Digital Tools for Independent People ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
Hello, On Fri, 08 May 2009 10:24:58 +0200 Pander pan...@users.sourceforge.net wrote: Timo Jyrinki wrote: 2009/5/8 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org: The rework itself is essentially for free and Openmoko provides an additional free battery to make good your efforts and the time you don't have the Freerunner to use. I agree that this is _the_ deal for anyone in EU. Getting a new battery in practice covers even the postage costs. Purchased my rework already. Thank you a lot for making this happen, and also to Openmoko Inc for showing some support to an initiative like this. -Timo I had my phone recently fixed in a fix party in Germany. Do I also get a free battery? hmm, that's interesting.. I wasn't aware of this deal (free battery for each buzz fix) probably because that wasn't though of yet when I got the components for the buzz fixes. I can ask Openmoko if I can get the batteries for the buzz fixes I've been doing (round about 70 now) and then send them out. I doubt they will ship directly to you because of the overhead involved. Regards, Daniel Willmann signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
Hi, If you have several Freerunners to rework, please add as many Buzz-Reworks to the shopping cart. This will reduce shipment cost compared to single shipment (but there will still be only one free battery). Why can't we send i.e. 4 freerunner from one city in one box, order 4 reworks and get 4 batteries ? I don't know why we need to send them seperately for our free batteries. - varacanero Jon Levell schrieb: Hi, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: [blank screen when ordering a debuzzing] Not generally. Several people have reported a blank screen that is only shown on the first attempt. But we can't debug that easily, because it appears only for real payments and not in debug mode. I'll e-mail you off-list. Jon. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
any news on the repair? my order status says for quite some time 'Freerunner received.' is everything going according to shedule? just curious y On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 2:22 PM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org wrote: Unfortunately no since flashing a blank NOR is a completely different thing. Maybe someone from Eindhoven has a Debug Board and can help you? Am 14.05.2009 um 14:12 schrieb Atilla Filiz: Hello; Is it possible to ask for any other minor fix along with debuzzing? My device came with blank NOR and I don't want to buy a debug board just to use once. I don't mind paying a few extra €s. -- - Atilla Filiz Eindhoven University of Technology Embedded Systems, Master's Programme ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
Am 23.05.2009 um 14:04 schrieb Yorick Moko: any news on the repair? Rework has been started this week and the first units have been shipped back. my order status says for quite some time 'Freerunner received.' is everything going according to shedule? Mostly. We did have a public holiday in Germany on Thursday (and a voluntary holiday on Friday) this week, so this has delayed completion of the first batch this week by the SMD rework company. But I am sure we will have the first major batch reworked by mid of next week. just curious I completely understand... y On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 2:22 PM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org wrote: ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
thanks for the update! i'm gonna miss the buzz ;-) On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 6:30 PM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org wrote: Am 23.05.2009 um 14:04 schrieb Yorick Moko: any news on the repair? Rework has been started this week and the first units have been shipped back. my order status says for quite some time 'Freerunner received.' is everything going according to shedule? Mostly. We did have a public holiday in Germany on Thursday (and a voluntary holiday on Friday) this week, so this has delayed completion of the first batch this week by the SMD rework company. But I am sure we will have the first major batch reworked by mid of next week. just curious I completely understand... y On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 2:22 PM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org wrote: ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
When OM throws a party nobody leaves with a buzz. Yorick Moko wrote: thanks for the update! i'm gonna miss the buzz ;-) On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 6:30 PM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org wrote: Am 23.05.2009 um 14:04 schrieb Yorick Moko: any news on the repair? Rework has been started this week and the first units have been shipped back. my order status says for quite some time 'Freerunner received.' is everything going according to shedule? Mostly. We did have a public holiday in Germany on Thursday (and a voluntary holiday on Friday) this week, so this has delayed completion of the first batch this week by the SMD rework company. But I am sure we will have the first major batch reworked by mid of next week. just curious I completely understand... y On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 2:22 PM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org wrote: ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
Am 23.05.2009 um 19:44 schrieb Yorick Moko: thanks for the update! i'm gonna miss the buzz ;-) Shouldn't be difficult to mix it into the audio path by some open source software :) Maybe, someone has a nice buzz-audio theme file. On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 6:30 PM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org wrote: Am 23.05.2009 um 14:04 schrieb Yorick Moko: any news on the repair? Rework has been started this week and the first units have been shipped back. my order status says for quite some time 'Freerunner received.' is everything going according to shedule? Mostly. We did have a public holiday in Germany on Thursday (and a voluntary holiday on Friday) this week, so this has delayed completion of the first batch this week by the SMD rework company. But I am sure we will have the first major batch reworked by mid of next week. just curious I completely understand... y On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 2:22 PM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org wrote: ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing in Portugal?
El Thursday, 14 de May de 2009 23:55:48 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra va escriure: Guys, we're few (but good), can we get some highly skilled solder artisan to help with the debuzzing for our phones? In Caceres Debconf will be a Buzz Fix party. If you cannot be there I sugest you to contact David Samblas ( david at tuxbrain dot com) You could get more information in spanish on: http://www.tuxbrain.net/shop/product_info.php?products_id=46 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
Dear all, since some of you did not receive our mails (spam filters are sometimes too critical), here a status update: * components have been released by customs and have finally arrived * so you can now send devices to us * please follow the rework service instructions (e.g. just send the device and no accessories to avoid risk that anything is lost). http://www.handheld-linux.com/images/Instructions.pdf * we have got several requests from outside of the EU if we can help - and we would be happy to help - but customs handling to avoid paying import duties twice (by you and/or by us) are too complex and shipment cost is high. So, please organize something in your local region yourself. If you need to discuss how to do it, please drop me a mail. Nikolaus Schaller Am 13.05.2009 um 19:05 schrieb Leonti Bielski: From: http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Buzz-Rework When choosing a parcel service, please choose one that allows you to track your parcel since we are not responsible for incoming parcels. Since we already have to sent it with the service with tracking there is no point in GD confirming it once more - we should be able to see it in our tracking service. We will confirm anyway, but if it does not arrive - we have no idea how to help otherwise... Leonti On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 5:53 PM, Yorick Moko yorickm...@gmail.com wrote: Will we get a notification when Golden Delicious has recieved our device? On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 1:45 PM, arne anka openm...@ginguppin.de wrote: The free battery is a courtesy from Openmoko and is included in both approaches. OM sends a set of spare batteries to the one who organizes a party. He hands them out to you during that party. But I don't know if it applies to I had my phone recently fixed in a fix party in Germany or just to future parties. at least there where no batteries in braunschweig may 1-3. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
what will be the price of the re-work? Mentioning 'Hermes', you mean these guys: http://www.hermespaketshop.de/ Thanks Tony On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:53 AM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org wrote: Dear all,since some of you did not receive our mails (spam filters are sometimes too critical), here a status update: * components have been released by customs and have finally arrived * so you can now send devices to us * please follow the rework service instructions (e.g. just send the device and no accessories to avoid risk that anything is lost). http://www.handheld-linux.com/images/Instructions.pdf * we have got several requests from outside of the EU if we can help - and we would be happy to help - but customs handling to avoid paying import duties twice (by you and/or by us) are too complex and shipment cost is high. So, please organize something in your local region yourself. If you need to discuss how to do it, please drop me a mail. Nikolaus Schaller Am 13.05.2009 um 19:05 schrieb Leonti Bielski: From: http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Buzz-Rework When choosing a parcel service, please choose one that allows you to track your parcel since we are not responsible for incoming parcels. Since we already have to sent it with the service with tracking there is no point in GD confirming it once more - we should be able to see it in our tracking service. We will confirm anyway, but if it does not arrive - we have no idea how to help otherwise... Leonti On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 5:53 PM, Yorick Moko yorickm...@gmail.com wrote: Will we get a notification when Golden Delicious has recieved our device? On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 1:45 PM, arne anka openm...@ginguppin.de wrote: The free battery is a courtesy from Openmoko and is included in both approaches. OM sends a set of spare batteries to the one who organizes a party. He hands them out to you during that party. But I don't know if it applies to I had my phone recently fixed in a fix party in Germany or just to future parties. at least there where no batteries in braunschweig may 1-3. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
Hello; Is it possible to ask for any other minor fix along with debuzzing? My device came with blank NOR and I don't want to buy a debug board just to use once. I don't mind paying a few extra €s. -- - Atilla Filiz Eindhoven University of Technology Embedded Systems, Master's Programme ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
Am 14.05.2009 um 12:26 schrieb Tony Berth: what will be the price of the re-work? Please refer for all detauls to http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Buzz-Rework Mentioning 'Hermes', you mean these guys: http://www.hermespaketshop.de/ Yes, but I think they operate/originate only in Germany. They most likely have partners in other countries (http://www.hermespaketshop.de/paketeversenden_international.php ). The idea behind is that you don't waste 50 EUR for an overnight courier and then have to wait anyway some days until we have repaired. And, they have online tracking for small parcels (petite paquet) which only provide at much higher tariff. But there may be other shipment services with even better conditions. Nikolaus Thanks Tony On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:53 AM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org wrote: Dear all, since some of you did not receive our mails (spam filters are sometimes too critical), here a status update: * components have been released by customs and have finally arrived * so you can now send devices to us * please follow the rework service instructions (e.g. just send the device and no accessories to avoid risk that anything is lost). http://www.handheld-linux.com/images/Instructions.pdf * we have got several requests from outside of the EU if we can help - and we would be happy to help - but customs handling to avoid paying import duties twice (by you and/or by us) are too complex and shipment cost is high. So, please organize something in your local region yourself. If you need to discuss how to do it, please drop me a mail. Nikolaus Schaller Am 13.05.2009 um 19:05 schrieb Leonti Bielski: From: http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Buzz-Rework When choosing a parcel service, please choose one that allows you to track your parcel since we are not responsible for incoming parcels. Since we already have to sent it with the service with tracking there is no point in GD confirming it once more - we should be able to see it in our tracking service. We will confirm anyway, but if it does not arrive - we have no idea how to help otherwise... Leonti On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 5:53 PM, Yorick Moko yorickm...@gmail.com wrote: Will we get a notification when Golden Delicious has recieved our device? On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 1:45 PM, arne anka openm...@ginguppin.de wrote: The free battery is a courtesy from Openmoko and is included in both approaches. OM sends a set of spare batteries to the one who organizes a party. He hands them out to you during that party. But I don't know if it applies to I had my phone recently fixed in a fix party in Germany or just to future parties. at least there where no batteries in braunschweig may 1-3. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
Unfortunately no since flashing a blank NOR is a completely different thing. Maybe someone from Eindhoven has a Debug Board and can help you? Am 14.05.2009 um 14:12 schrieb Atilla Filiz: Hello; Is it possible to ask for any other minor fix along with debuzzing? My device came with blank NOR and I don't want to buy a debug board just to use once. I don't mind paying a few extra €s. -- - Atilla Filiz Eindhoven University of Technology Embedded Systems, Master's Programme ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Debuzzing in Portugal?
Guys, we're few (but good), can we get some highly skilled solder artisan to help with the debuzzing for our phones? The only way my GTA02v5 is loud enough to be called normal does carry along a huge buzz... Rui -- Fnord. Today is Prickle-Prickle, the 61st day of Discord in the YOLD 3175 + No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown + Whatever you do will be insignificant, | but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi + So let's do it...? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
В Птн, 08/05/2009 в 10:24 +0200, Pander пишет: I had my phone recently fixed in a fix party in Germany. Do I also get a free battery? I'm also interested in this one - should I attend buzz-fix party and get free battery somehow or it's better to buzz-fix via Nikolaus offer (Pulster if I'm not mistaken)? What's the procedure of ordering free battery for phone fixed on buzz-fix party? best regards, Max. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
Am 13.05.2009 um 12:26 schrieb Max: В Птн, 08/05/2009 в 10:24 +0200, Pander пишет: I had my phone recently fixed in a fix party in Germany. Do I also get a free battery? I'm also interested in this one - should I attend buzz-fix party and get free battery somehow or it's better to buzz-fix via Nikolaus offer (Pulster if I'm not mistaken)? No, we are Golden Delicious Computers (aka The Handheld-Linux Shop). What's the procedure of ordering free battery for phone fixed on buzz-fix party? best regards, Max. Generally you can choose between looking if someone is organizing a buzz-fix party or you can send your device to us for the rework service. Both approaches have pros and cons. E.g. during a party you meet nice people and can take your device back immediately. But you may have to travel to distant location - and the main requirement is that there must be someone who organizes this at all. The rework service results in a much longer time without a freerunner but is just as far away from you as the next postal office or courier service. The free battery is a courtesy from Openmoko and is included in both approaches. OM sends a set of spare batteries to the one who organizes a party. He hands them out to you during that party. But I don't know if it applies to I had my phone recently fixed in a fix party in Germany or just to future parties. Hope this clarifies a little and gives you more background information for decisions, Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Mobile Office Solutions by Golden Delicious Computers GmbHCo. KG Buchenstr. 3 D-82041 Oberhaching +49-89-54290367 http://www.handheld-linux.com AG München, HRA 89571 VAT DE253626266 Komplementär: Golden Delicious Computers Verwaltungs GmbH Oberhaching, AG München, HRB 16602 Geschäftsführer: Dr. Nikolaus Schaller Digital Tools for Independent People ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
The free battery is a courtesy from Openmoko and is included in both approaches. OM sends a set of spare batteries to the one who organizes a party. He hands them out to you during that party. But I don't know if it applies to I had my phone recently fixed in a fix party in Germany or just to future parties. at least there where no batteries in braunschweig may 1-3. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
Will we get a notification when Golden Delicious has recieved our device? On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 1:45 PM, arne anka openm...@ginguppin.de wrote: The free battery is a courtesy from Openmoko and is included in both approaches. OM sends a set of spare batteries to the one who organizes a party. He hands them out to you during that party. But I don't know if it applies to I had my phone recently fixed in a fix party in Germany or just to future parties. at least there where no batteries in braunschweig may 1-3. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
From: http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Buzz-Rework When choosing a parcel service, please choose one that allows you to track your parcel since we are not responsible for incoming parcels. Since we already have to sent it with the service with tracking there is no point in GD confirming it once more - we should be able to see it in our tracking service. Leonti On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 5:53 PM, Yorick Moko yorickm...@gmail.com wrote: Will we get a notification when Golden Delicious has recieved our device? On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 1:45 PM, arne anka openm...@ginguppin.de wrote: The free battery is a courtesy from Openmoko and is included in both approaches. OM sends a set of spare batteries to the one who organizes a party. He hands them out to you during that party. But I don't know if it applies to I had my phone recently fixed in a fix party in Germany or just to future parties. at least there where no batteries in braunschweig may 1-3. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
Am 08.05.2009 um 21:46 schrieb Jon Levell: Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: expenses. The rework itself is essentially for free and Openmoko provides an additional free battery to make good your efforts and the time you don't have the Freerunner to use. I've tried to order this but when I try and pay via a credit card, I get a blank screen. I see that it warns about pop-up blockers on the page but I've even tried using IE6 (under Wine) and I still get the blank screen. Is the payment processing broken at the moment? Not generally. Several people have reported a blank screen that is only shown on the first attempt. But we can't debug that easily, because it appears only for real payments and not in debug mode. According to the logic it *should* be a https protected page from either ipayment.de or your bank. If someone can find out the URL of the blank page that would really help us. Thanks, Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
Hi, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: [blank screen when ordering a debuzzing] Not generally. Several people have reported a blank screen that is only shown on the first attempt. But we can't debug that easily, because it appears only for real payments and not in debug mode. I'll e-mail you off-list. Jon. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
2009/5/8 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org: The rework itself is essentially for free and Openmoko provides an additional free battery to make good your efforts and the time you don't have the Freerunner to use. I agree that this is _the_ deal for anyone in EU. Getting a new battery in practice covers even the postage costs. Purchased my rework already. Thank you a lot for making this happen, and also to Openmoko Inc for showing some support to an initiative like this. -Timo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
Marco Trevisan (Treviño) ha scritto: Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: 2) Therefore we plan to offer this service to all Openmoko owners within the EU harmonized market / tax union (to avoid re-import/export hassle). Please note that there will be a rework fee. The final price is not yet clear (expected to be less than 30 EUR incl. shipment) because we are in intensive discussions with Openmoko how they can help to reduce this fee for you. Is this rework fee valid also for your customers? Don't you offer a kind of warranty? The same for me, I'm your customer too. Thank you in advance for your answer. Bye! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
Timo Jyrinki wrote: 2009/5/8 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org: The rework itself is essentially for free and Openmoko provides an additional free battery to make good your efforts and the time you don't have the Freerunner to use. I agree that this is _the_ deal for anyone in EU. Getting a new battery in practice covers even the postage costs. Purchased my rework already. Thank you a lot for making this happen, and also to Openmoko Inc for showing some support to an initiative like this. -Timo I had my phone recently fixed in a fix party in Germany. Do I also get a free battery? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
Am 08.05.2009 um 09:52 schrieb DJDAS: Marco Trevisan (Treviño) ha scritto: Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: 2) Therefore we plan to offer this service to all Openmoko owners within the EU harmonized market / tax union (to avoid re-import/ export hassle). Please note that there will be a rework fee. The final price is not yet clear (expected to be less than 30 EUR incl. shipment) because we are in intensive discussions with Openmoko how they can help to reduce this fee for you. Is this rework fee valid also for your customers? Don't you offer a kind of warranty? The same for me, I'm your customer too. Thank you in advance for your answer. Bye! Sorry, I missed the first mail. Maybe, you did not read the final announcement (the 30 EUR was the initial upper limit) that there is only 3 EUR left over just that our shop software calculates the correct shipment fee that covers shipment expenses. The rework itself is essentially for free and Openmoko provides an additional free battery to make good your efforts and the time you don't have the Freerunner to use. Nikolaus Schaller Mobile Office Solutions by Golden Delicious Computers GmbHCo. KG Buchenstr. 3 D-82041 Oberhaching +49-89-54290367 http://www.handheld-linux.com AG München, HRA 89571 VAT DE253626266 Komplementär: Golden Delicious Computers Verwaltungs GmbH Oberhaching, AG München, HRB 16602 Geschäftsführer: Dr. Nikolaus Schaller Digital Tools for Independent People ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: expenses. The rework itself is essentially for free and Openmoko provides an additional free battery to make good your efforts and the time you don't have the Freerunner to use. I've tried to order this but when I try and pay via a credit card, I get a blank screen. I see that it warns about pop-up blockers on the page but I've even tried using IE6 (under Wine) and I still get the blank screen. Is the payment processing broken at the moment? Jon. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
I have same request ;-) I'm in Canada Jim Ancona wrote: On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 10:17 AM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org wrote: Am 28.04.2009 um 22:30 schrieb Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller: 2) Therefore we plan to offer this service to all Openmoko owners within the EU harmonized market / tax union (to avoid re-import/ export hassle). Please note that there will be a rework fee. The final price is not yet clear (expected to be less than 30 EUR incl. shipment) because we are in intensive discussions with Openmoko how they can help to reduce this fee for you. Openmoko has given us now full support and therefore, we can reduce the fee dramatically. A bad news is that you have to cover 2 way shipment. But another good news is that Openmoko provides a free battery as a gift for each shipment. Can someone from Openmoko comment on whether there are plans to offer something similar outside the EU? I'm in the US, but I'm sure Freerunner users elsewhere are also interested. Jim ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Debuzzing-tp2736682p2829163.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
Am 30.04.2009 um 16:17 schrieb Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller: Am 28.04.2009 um 22:30 schrieb Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller: Dear community, it is the philisophy of Golden Delicious Computers to find solutions for important topics that the community has and can't solve alone. Therefore, we (Golden Delicious Computers and TRIsoft) have worked behind the scenes and are close to offer a Buzz rework solution that can in principle serve all Freerunner Owners in the EU harmonized market. 1) We have identified a very good professional SMD rework company in Munich, Germany who are capable and willing to do the rework at low cost and high quality, but only if we deliver batches of collected devices. Since we are experienced in collecting incoming and outgoing shipments, the combination is the solution. 2) Therefore we plan to offer this service to all Openmoko owners within the EU harmonized market / tax union (to avoid re-import/ export hassle). Please note that there will be a rework fee. The final price is not yet clear (expected to be less than 30 EUR incl. shipment) because we are in intensive discussions with Openmoko how they can help to reduce this fee for you. Openmoko has given us now full support and therefore, we can reduce the fee dramatically. A bad news is that you have to cover 2 way shipment. But another good news is that Openmoko provides a free battery as a gift for each shipment. 3) Rework will take approx. 1 week and could start immediately, provided we get the promised replacement components in time. That well need some days so I expect that we can start rework in the second week of May. Parts are now on air freight and will arrive in Munich within the next days. So it looks as if we can start next week. 4) If you are interested, please register yourself and your device at the following link. We will then follow up with details about handling, address to send to, time schedule, final pricing etc. http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Buzz-Rework This page has now become an order page. Please purchase the service. So stay tuned, Nikolaus Mobile Office Solutions by Golden Delicious Computers GmbHCo. KG Buchenstr. 3 D-82041 Oberhaching +49-89-54290367 http://www.handheld-linux.com AG München, HRA 89571 VAT DE253626266 Komplementär: Golden Delicious Computers Verwaltungs GmbH Oberhaching, AG München, HRB 16602 Geschäftsführer: Dr. Nikolaus Schaller Digital Tools for Independent People ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
Hi Is it possible to bring the devices to you in person? This could save shipping costs for all of us who can use the S-Bahn without additional costs or pass the A995 regularly since it's about 1 km from the next S-Bahn station (Deisenhofen) or less than 4 km from the A995 to your address in Oberhaching (distances measured in Google Maps). cu Korbi On Tue, 2009-04-28 at 22:30 +0200, Dr.H.NikolausS wrote: Dear community, it is the philisophy of Golden Delicious Computers to find solutions for important topics that the community has and can't solve alone. Therefore, we (Golden Delicious Computers and TRIsoft) have worked behind the scenes and are close to offer a Buzz rework solution that can in principle serve all Freerunner Owners in the EU harmonized market. 1) We have identified a very good professional SMD rework company in Munich, Germany who are capable and willing to do the rework at low cost and high quality, but only if we deliver batches of collected devices. Since we are experienced in collecting incoming and outgoing shipments, the combination is the solution. 2) Therefore we plan to offer this service to all Openmoko owners within the EU harmonized market / tax union (to avoid re-import/export hassle). Please note that there will be a rework fee. The final price is not yet clear (expected to be less than 30 EUR incl. shipment) because we are in intensive discussions with Openmoko how they can help to reduce this fee for you. 3) Rework will take approx. 1 week and could start immediately, provided we get the promised replacement components in time. 4) If you are interested, please register yourself and your device at the following link. We will then follow up with details about handling, address to send to, time schedule, final pricing etc. http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Buzz-Rework So stay tuned, Nikolaus Mobile Office Solutions by Golden Delicious Computers GmbHCo. KG Buchenstr. 3 D-82041 Oberhaching +49-89-54290367 http://www.handheld-linux.com AG München, HRA 89571 VAT DE253626266 Komplementär: Golden Delicious Computers Verwaltungs GmbH Oberhaching, AG München, HRB 16602 Geschäftsführer: Dr. Nikolaus Schaller Digital Tools for Independent People ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
On Wednesday 06 May 2009 22:23:23 Korbinian Rosenegger wrote: Is it possible to bring the devices to you in person? I'm interested too as I don't live too far. Moreover the packing for delivery in person is far easier to do than the post one :) -- Vincent MEURISSE ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: 2) Therefore we plan to offer this service to all Openmoko owners within the EU harmonized market / tax union (to avoid re-import/export hassle). Please note that there will be a rework fee. The final price is not yet clear (expected to be less than 30 EUR incl. shipment) because we are in intensive discussions with Openmoko how they can help to reduce this fee for you. Is this rework fee valid also for your customers? Don't you offer a kind of warranty? If not, can I fix my freerunner in another SMD rework company without voiding my warranty? -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
Am 06.05.2009 um 22:23 schrieb Korbinian Rosenegger: Hi Is it possible to bring the devices to you in person? This could save shipping costs for all of us who can use the S-Bahn without additional costs or pass the A995 regularly since it's about 1 km from the next S-Bahn station (Deisenhofen) or less than 4 km from the A995 to your address in Oberhaching (distances measured in Google Maps). I understand your idea, but we can't manage it that way for several reasons, I can't discuss here in detail. One is that we are not doing the rework ourselves but by a company in Munich. So there is no chance for you to wait for the rework. Then, we think by using Hermes Versand, your cost for shipping in is just 4 EUR. So we are not farther away than your next Hermes office (see http://www.hermespaketshop.de/ and teh Paketshop Locator). Finally, the free battery given by Openmoko is thought as compensation for the shipping cost. Best regards, Nikolaus cu Korbi On Tue, 2009-04-28 at 22:30 +0200, Dr.H.NikolausS wrote: Dear community, it is the philisophy of Golden Delicious Computers to find solutions for important topics that the community has and can't solve alone. Therefore, we (Golden Delicious Computers and TRIsoft) have worked behind the scenes and are close to offer a Buzz rework solution that can in principle serve all Freerunner Owners in the EU harmonized market. 1) We have identified a very good professional SMD rework company in Munich, Germany who are capable and willing to do the rework at low cost and high quality, but only if we deliver batches of collected devices. Since we are experienced in collecting incoming and outgoing shipments, the combination is the solution. 2) Therefore we plan to offer this service to all Openmoko owners within the EU harmonized market / tax union (to avoid re-import/ export hassle). Please note that there will be a rework fee. The final price is not yet clear (expected to be less than 30 EUR incl. shipment) because we are in intensive discussions with Openmoko how they can help to reduce this fee for you. 3) Rework will take approx. 1 week and could start immediately, provided we get the promised replacement components in time. 4) If you are interested, please register yourself and your device at the following link. We will then follow up with details about handling, address to send to, time schedule, final pricing etc. http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Buzz-Rework So stay tuned, Nikolaus Mobile Office Solutions by Golden Delicious Computers GmbHCo. KG Buchenstr. 3 D-82041 Oberhaching +49-89-54290367 http://www.handheld-linux.com AG München, HRA 89571 VAT DE253626266 Komplementär: Golden Delicious Computers Verwaltungs GmbH Oberhaching, AG München, HRB 16602 Geschäftsführer: Dr. Nikolaus Schaller Digital Tools for Independent People ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
Am 28.04.2009 um 22:30 schrieb Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller: Dear community, it is the philisophy of Golden Delicious Computers to find solutions for important topics that the community has and can't solve alone. Therefore, we (Golden Delicious Computers and TRIsoft) have worked behind the scenes and are close to offer a Buzz rework solution that can in principle serve all Freerunner Owners in the EU harmonized market. 1) We have identified a very good professional SMD rework company in Munich, Germany who are capable and willing to do the rework at low cost and high quality, but only if we deliver batches of collected devices. Since we are experienced in collecting incoming and outgoing shipments, the combination is the solution. 2) Therefore we plan to offer this service to all Openmoko owners within the EU harmonized market / tax union (to avoid re-import/ export hassle). Please note that there will be a rework fee. The final price is not yet clear (expected to be less than 30 EUR incl. shipment) because we are in intensive discussions with Openmoko how they can help to reduce this fee for you. Openmoko has given us now full support and therefore, we can reduce the fee dramatically. A bad news is that you have to cover 2 way shipment. But another good news is that Openmoko provides a free battery as a gift for each shipment. 3) Rework will take approx. 1 week and could start immediately, provided we get the promised replacement components in time. That well need some days so I expect that we can start rework in the second week of May. 4) If you are interested, please register yourself and your device at the following link. We will then follow up with details about handling, address to send to, time schedule, final pricing etc. http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Buzz-Rework This page has now become an order page. Please purchase the service. So stay tuned, Nikolaus Mobile Office Solutions by Golden Delicious Computers GmbHCo. KG Buchenstr. 3 D-82041 Oberhaching +49-89-54290367 http://www.handheld-linux.com AG München, HRA 89571 VAT DE253626266 Komplementär: Golden Delicious Computers Verwaltungs GmbH Oberhaching, AG München, HRB 16602 Geschäftsführer: Dr. Nikolaus Schaller Digital Tools for Independent People ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
Are there any limitations on shipment? As fas as I understand you can rework only batches of phones, so if let's say someones sent it extra fast second day shipment they still will have to wait for others that have sent phones by extra slow shipment. Right? Are there any limitations by which date phones should be delivered? (I'm aware the date is not known yet but lets say rework is scheduled to 11 of may - phones should be delivered by 8th of may for example). Or does it work in other way? Will we have to wait for phones of other users before the rework? Leonti On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 4:17 PM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.orgwrote: Am 28.04.2009 um 22:30 schrieb Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller: Dear community, it is the philisophy of Golden Delicious Computers to find solutions for important topics that the community has and can't solve alone. Therefore, we (Golden Delicious Computers and TRIsoft) have worked behind the scenes and are close to offer a Buzz rework solution that can in principle serve all Freerunner Owners in the EU harmonized market. 1) We have identified a very good professional SMD rework company in Munich, Germany who are capable and willing to do the rework at low cost and high quality, but only if we deliver batches of collected devices. Since we are experienced in collecting incoming and outgoing shipments, the combination is the solution. 2) Therefore we plan to offer this service to all Openmoko owners within the EU harmonized market / tax union (to avoid re-import/ export hassle). Please note that there will be a rework fee. The final price is not yet clear (expected to be less than 30 EUR incl. shipment) because we are in intensive discussions with Openmoko how they can help to reduce this fee for you. Openmoko has given us now full support and therefore, we can reduce the fee dramatically. A bad news is that you have to cover 2 way shipment. But another good news is that Openmoko provides a free battery as a gift for each shipment. 3) Rework will take approx. 1 week and could start immediately, provided we get the promised replacement components in time. That well need some days so I expect that we can start rework in the second week of May. 4) If you are interested, please register yourself and your device at the following link. We will then follow up with details about handling, address to send to, time schedule, final pricing etc. http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Buzz-Rework This page has now become an order page. Please purchase the service. So stay tuned, Nikolaus Mobile Office Solutions by Golden Delicious Computers GmbHCo. KG Buchenstr. 3 D-82041 Oberhaching +49-89-54290367 http://www.handheld-linux.com AG München, HRA 89571 VAT DE253626266 Komplementär: Golden Delicious Computers Verwaltungs GmbH Oberhaching, AG München, HRB 16602 Geschäftsführer: Dr. Nikolaus Schaller Digital Tools for Independent People ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
Am 30.04.2009 um 16:53 schrieb Leonti Bielski: Are there any limitations on shipment? As fas as I understand you can rework only batches of phones, so if let's say someones sent it extra fast second day shipment they still will have to wait for others that have sent phones by extra slow shipment. Right? Most probably yes. But it is not that you have to wait for slow phones. Incoming devices are collected until a certain batch is completed. That will be brought to the reworker. Rework itself does not take much time. But testing, repacking, labeling, shipping out again. So I can't estimate yet how fast the inbox fills up and how long it takes to move to the outbox. Are there any limitations by which date phones should be delivered? (I'm aware the date is not known yet but lets say rework is scheduled to 11 of may - phones should be delivered by 8th of may for example). The main limitation is that you should not send it unneccessarily early - because we can't start rework before we have the components in our hands. Theoretically, the best fit would be if your phone arrives at the same moment as the components... Or does it work in other way? Will we have to wait for phones of other users before the rework? Generally we try to do it as fast as possible, but please expect something between 1 and 2 weeks total processing time - time without a FR. This includes 2x shipment + some time in the collection queue. Leonti On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 4:17 PM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org wrote: Am 28.04.2009 um 22:30 schrieb Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller: Dear community, it is the philisophy of Golden Delicious Computers to find solutions for important topics that the community has and can't solve alone. Therefore, we (Golden Delicious Computers and TRIsoft) have worked behind the scenes and are close to offer a Buzz rework solution that can in principle serve all Freerunner Owners in the EU harmonized market. 1) We have identified a very good professional SMD rework company in Munich, Germany who are capable and willing to do the rework at low cost and high quality, but only if we deliver batches of collected devices. Since we are experienced in collecting incoming and outgoing shipments, the combination is the solution. 2) Therefore we plan to offer this service to all Openmoko owners within the EU harmonized market / tax union (to avoid re-import/ export hassle). Please note that there will be a rework fee. The final price is not yet clear (expected to be less than 30 EUR incl. shipment) because we are in intensive discussions with Openmoko how they can help to reduce this fee for you. Openmoko has given us now full support and therefore, we can reduce the fee dramatically. A bad news is that you have to cover 2 way shipment. But another good news is that Openmoko provides a free battery as a gift for each shipment. 3) Rework will take approx. 1 week and could start immediately, provided we get the promised replacement components in time. That well need some days so I expect that we can start rework in the second week of May. 4) If you are interested, please register yourself and your device at the following link. We will then follow up with details about handling, address to send to, time schedule, final pricing etc. http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Buzz-Rework This page has now become an order page. Please purchase the service. So stay tuned, Nikolaus Mobile Office Solutions by Golden Delicious Computers GmbHCo. KG Buchenstr. 3 D-82041 Oberhaching +49-89-54290367 http://www.handheld-linux.com AG München, HRA 89571 VAT DE253626266 Komplementär: Golden Delicious Computers Verwaltungs GmbH Oberhaching, AG München, HRB 16602 Geschäftsführer: Dr. Nikolaus Schaller Digital Tools for Independent People ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 10:17 AM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org wrote: Am 28.04.2009 um 22:30 schrieb Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller: 2) Therefore we plan to offer this service to all Openmoko owners within the EU harmonized market / tax union (to avoid re-import/ export hassle). Please note that there will be a rework fee. The final price is not yet clear (expected to be less than 30 EUR incl. shipment) because we are in intensive discussions with Openmoko how they can help to reduce this fee for you. Openmoko has given us now full support and therefore, we can reduce the fee dramatically. A bad news is that you have to cover 2 way shipment. But another good news is that Openmoko provides a free battery as a gift for each shipment. Can someone from Openmoko comment on whether there are plans to offer something similar outside the EU? I'm in the US, but I'm sure Freerunner users elsewhere are also interested. Jim ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
Understood. Just bought a rework :) Another question - you said that phones will be tested, so it got me thinking - will you have any requirements on distribution installed on phone? Leonti On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 5:47 PM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.orgwrote: Am 30.04.2009 um 16:53 schrieb Leonti Bielski: Are there any limitations on shipment? As fas as I understand you can rework only batches of phones, so if let's say someones sent it extra fast second day shipment they still will have to wait for others that have sent phones by extra slow shipment. Right? Most probably yes. But it is not that you have to wait for slow phones. Incoming devices are collected until a certain batch is completed. That will be brought to the reworker. Rework itself does not take much time. But testing, repacking, labeling, shipping out again. So I can't estimate yet how fast the inbox fills up and how long it takes to move to the outbox. Are there any limitations by which date phones should be delivered? (I'm aware the date is not known yet but lets say rework is scheduled to 11 of may - phones should be delivered by 8th of may for example). The main limitation is that you should not send it unneccessarily early - because we can't start rework before we have the components in our hands. Theoretically, the best fit would be if your phone arrives at the same moment as the components... Or does it work in other way? Will we have to wait for phones of other users before the rework? Generally we try to do it as fast as possible, but please expect something between 1 and 2 weeks total processing time - time without a FR. This includes 2x shipment + some time in the collection queue. Leonti On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 4:17 PM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org wrote: Am 28.04.2009 um 22:30 schrieb Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller: Dear community, it is the philisophy of Golden Delicious Computers to find solutions for important topics that the community has and can't solve alone. Therefore, we (Golden Delicious Computers and TRIsoft) have worked behind the scenes and are close to offer a Buzz rework solution that can in principle serve all Freerunner Owners in the EU harmonized market. 1) We have identified a very good professional SMD rework company in Munich, Germany who are capable and willing to do the rework at low cost and high quality, but only if we deliver batches of collected devices. Since we are experienced in collecting incoming and outgoing shipments, the combination is the solution. 2) Therefore we plan to offer this service to all Openmoko owners within the EU harmonized market / tax union (to avoid re-import/ export hassle). Please note that there will be a rework fee. The final price is not yet clear (expected to be less than 30 EUR incl. shipment) because we are in intensive discussions with Openmoko how they can help to reduce this fee for you. Openmoko has given us now full support and therefore, we can reduce the fee dramatically. A bad news is that you have to cover 2 way shipment. But another good news is that Openmoko provides a free battery as a gift for each shipment. 3) Rework will take approx. 1 week and could start immediately, provided we get the promised replacement components in time. That well need some days so I expect that we can start rework in the second week of May. 4) If you are interested, please register yourself and your device at the following link. We will then follow up with details about handling, address to send to, time schedule, final pricing etc. http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Buzz-Rework This page has now become an order page. Please purchase the service. So stay tuned, Nikolaus Mobile Office Solutions by Golden Delicious Computers GmbHCo. KG Buchenstr. 3 D-82041 Oberhaching +49-89-54290367 http://www.handheld-linux.com AG München, HRA 89571 VAT DE253626266 Komplementär: Golden Delicious Computers Verwaltungs GmbH Oberhaching, AG München, HRB 16602 Geschäftsführer: Dr. Nikolaus Schaller Digital Tools for Independent People ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org
Re: Debuzzing
Hi, This page has now become an order page. Please purchase the service. You talk about the fact that The 2 way shipping cost will be covered by the customer. how is this done? Is the 3 euro for sending back the device? Or are we charged when the device gets returned? Kind regards, Michel -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
When you buy it shipping cost is added to your order. Total cost will be about 13 euros. It's repairing + sending back. Plus you'll have to send it to them buy the shipping of your choice. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong. Leonti On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 9:02 PM, Michel mic...@xternal.nl wrote: Hi, This page has now become an order page. Please purchase the service. You talk about the fact that The 2 way shipping cost will be covered by the customer. how is this done? Is the 3 euro for sending back the device? Or are we charged when the device gets returned? Kind regards, Michel -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Dear community, it is the philisophy of Golden Delicious Computers to find solutions for important topics that the community has and can't solve alone. Therefore, we (Golden Delicious Computers and TRIsoft) have worked behind the scenes and are close to offer a Buzz rework solution that can in principle serve all Freerunner Owners in the EU harmonized market. 1) We have identified a very good professional SMD rework company in Munich, Germany who are capable and willing to do the rework at low cost and high quality, but only if we deliver batches of collected devices. Since we are experienced in collecting incoming and outgoing shipments, the combination is the solution. Will they do the bass fix too? For an extra fee probably, as the weak bass isn't really a defect. The bass fix (bigger capacitors) was published here, can they take a look at that too? I hope doing both fixes at once will be economical, as most of the work is common to both jobs. (Ship the phone only once, take it apart only once, reassemble only once, ship it back only once.) If they verify the buzz fix with a test call, then they'll even verify the bass fix didn't break anything at the same time. 2) Therefore we plan to offer this service to all Openmoko owners within the EU harmonized market / tax union (to avoid re-import/export hassle). What is the problem with a country outside EU? If the Norwegian government adds a tax or fee, as they usually do, then the payment is my problem. Not yours. They post office simply notify me and hold the returning package back until I sort it out. All they need to calculate tax is the receipt for the repair fee. I guess this is provided anyway, as businesses normally provide a receipt. Helge Hafting ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
Am 29.04.2009 um 10:44 schrieb Helge Hafting: Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Dear community, it is the philisophy of Golden Delicious Computers to find solutions for important topics that the community has and can't solve alone. Therefore, we (Golden Delicious Computers and TRIsoft) have worked behind the scenes and are close to offer a Buzz rework solution that can in principle serve all Freerunner Owners in the EU harmonized market. 1) We have identified a very good professional SMD rework company in Munich, Germany who are capable and willing to do the rework at low cost and high quality, but only if we deliver batches of collected devices. Since we are experienced in collecting incoming and outgoing shipments, the combination is the solution. Will they do the bass fix too? For an extra fee probably, as the weak bass isn't really a defect. The bass fix (bigger capacitors) was published here, can they take a look at that too? We have done this but the Bass-Fix is much more complicated (opening the shields, adding wires etc.) and probability of damaging the device is much higher. The Buzz-Rework can be done by opening the front cover only (2x Torx). I hope doing both fixes at once will be economical, as most of the work is common to both jobs. (Ship the phone only once, take it apart only once, reassemble only once, ship it back only once.) If they verify the buzz fix with a test call, then they'll even verify the bass fix didn't break anything at the same time. 2) Therefore we plan to offer this service to all Openmoko owners within the EU harmonized market / tax union (to avoid re-import/ export hassle). What is the problem with a country outside EU? If the Norwegian government adds a tax or fee, as they usually do, then the payment is my problem. Not yours. They post office simply notify me and hold the returning package back until I sort it out. All they need to calculate tax is the receipt for the repair fee. I guess this is provided anyway, as businesses normally provide a receipt. Sure, there is a receipt. The issue is that we receive incoming packages through German customs and customs charges a tax based on the value of the incoming goods. Getting tax exemption is possible but needs a lot of extra paperwork and depends on the country it is coming from. So we limit it to the EU in the first step. If that works well, we can try to find a solution for other european countries as well. Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
And what about the sd-card?? that is a very easy fix to do Joerg advised to fix it also On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 11:36 AM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org wrote: Am 29.04.2009 um 10:44 schrieb Helge Hafting: Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Dear community, it is the philisophy of Golden Delicious Computers to find solutions for important topics that the community has and can't solve alone. Therefore, we (Golden Delicious Computers and TRIsoft) have worked behind the scenes and are close to offer a Buzz rework solution that can in principle serve all Freerunner Owners in the EU harmonized market. 1) We have identified a very good professional SMD rework company in Munich, Germany who are capable and willing to do the rework at low cost and high quality, but only if we deliver batches of collected devices. Since we are experienced in collecting incoming and outgoing shipments, the combination is the solution. Will they do the bass fix too? For an extra fee probably, as the weak bass isn't really a defect. The bass fix (bigger capacitors) was published here, can they take a look at that too? We have done this but the Bass-Fix is much more complicated (opening the shields, adding wires etc.) and probability of damaging the device is much higher. The Buzz-Rework can be done by opening the front cover only (2x Torx). I hope doing both fixes at once will be economical, as most of the work is common to both jobs. (Ship the phone only once, take it apart only once, reassemble only once, ship it back only once.) If they verify the buzz fix with a test call, then they'll even verify the bass fix didn't break anything at the same time. 2) Therefore we plan to offer this service to all Openmoko owners within the EU harmonized market / tax union (to avoid re-import/ export hassle). What is the problem with a country outside EU? If the Norwegian government adds a tax or fee, as they usually do, then the payment is my problem. Not yours. They post office simply notify me and hold the returning package back until I sort it out. All they need to calculate tax is the receipt for the repair fee. I guess this is provided anyway, as businesses normally provide a receipt. Sure, there is a receipt. The issue is that we receive incoming packages through German customs and customs charges a tax based on the value of the incoming goods. Getting tax exemption is possible but needs a lot of extra paperwork and depends on the country it is coming from. So we limit it to the EU in the first step. If that works well, we can try to find a solution for other european countries as well. Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller ha scritto: Dear community, 2) Therefore we plan to offer this service to all Openmoko owners within the EU harmonized market / tax union (to avoid re-import/export hassle). Please note that there will be a rework fee. The final price is not yet clear (expected to be less than 30 EUR incl. shipment) because we are in intensive discussions with Openmoko how they can help to reduce this fee for you. ... 4) If you are interested, please register yourself and your device at the following link. We will then follow up with details about handling, address to send to, time schedule, final pricing etc. http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Buzz-Rework So stay tuned, Nikolaus Hi, are there particular offers/facilities for Golden Delicious customers? Thank you in advance, bye. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
Am 29.04.2009 um 14:28 schrieb Yorick Moko: And what about the sd-card?? that is a very easy fix to do Joerg advised to fix it also It is not really necessary to do that when using a more recent kernel that can switch off the SD card clock: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPS_Problems But it does not look very complicated so I will take your suggestion and find out what we can do. Nikolaus On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 11:36 AM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org wrote: Am 29.04.2009 um 10:44 schrieb Helge Hafting: Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Dear community, it is the philisophy of Golden Delicious Computers to find solutions for important topics that the community has and can't solve alone. Therefore, we (Golden Delicious Computers and TRIsoft) have worked behind the scenes and are close to offer a Buzz rework solution that can in principle serve all Freerunner Owners in the EU harmonized market. 1) We have identified a very good professional SMD rework company in Munich, Germany who are capable and willing to do the rework at low cost and high quality, but only if we deliver batches of collected devices. Since we are experienced in collecting incoming and outgoing shipments, the combination is the solution. Will they do the bass fix too? For an extra fee probably, as the weak bass isn't really a defect. The bass fix (bigger capacitors) was published here, can they take a look at that too? We have done this but the Bass-Fix is much more complicated (opening the shields, adding wires etc.) and probability of damaging the device is much higher. The Buzz-Rework can be done by opening the front cover only (2x Torx). I hope doing both fixes at once will be economical, as most of the work is common to both jobs. (Ship the phone only once, take it apart only once, reassemble only once, ship it back only once.) If they verify the buzz fix with a test call, then they'll even verify the bass fix didn't break anything at the same time. 2) Therefore we plan to offer this service to all Openmoko owners within the EU harmonized market / tax union (to avoid re-import/ export hassle). What is the problem with a country outside EU? If the Norwegian government adds a tax or fee, as they usually do, then the payment is my problem. Not yours. They post office simply notify me and hold the returning package back until I sort it out. All they need to calculate tax is the receipt for the repair fee. I guess this is provided anyway, as businesses normally provide a receipt. Sure, there is a receipt. The issue is that we receive incoming packages through German customs and customs charges a tax based on the value of the incoming goods. Getting tax exemption is possible but needs a lot of extra paperwork and depends on the country it is coming from. So we limit it to the EU in the first step. If that works well, we can try to find a solution for other european countries as well. Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
I know the kernel does that, but I normally boot from SD card, and when using gps i normally use maps, which are located on the SD card I think most people will use maps from the sd card and a fair amount boots regulary from SD thanks for taking it into consideration y On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 3:44 PM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org wrote: Am 29.04.2009 um 14:28 schrieb Yorick Moko: And what about the sd-card?? that is a very easy fix to do Joerg advised to fix it also It is not really necessary to do that when using a more recent kernel that can switch off the SD card clock: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPS_Problems But it does not look very complicated so I will take your suggestion and find out what we can do. Nikolaus On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 11:36 AM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org wrote: Am 29.04.2009 um 10:44 schrieb Helge Hafting: Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Dear community, it is the philisophy of Golden Delicious Computers to find solutions for important topics that the community has and can't solve alone. Therefore, we (Golden Delicious Computers and TRIsoft) have worked behind the scenes and are close to offer a Buzz rework solution that can in principle serve all Freerunner Owners in the EU harmonized market. 1) We have identified a very good professional SMD rework company in Munich, Germany who are capable and willing to do the rework at low cost and high quality, but only if we deliver batches of collected devices. Since we are experienced in collecting incoming and outgoing shipments, the combination is the solution. Will they do the bass fix too? For an extra fee probably, as the weak bass isn't really a defect. The bass fix (bigger capacitors) was published here, can they take a look at that too? We have done this but the Bass-Fix is much more complicated (opening the shields, adding wires etc.) and probability of damaging the device is much higher. The Buzz-Rework can be done by opening the front cover only (2x Torx). I hope doing both fixes at once will be economical, as most of the work is common to both jobs. (Ship the phone only once, take it apart only once, reassemble only once, ship it back only once.) If they verify the buzz fix with a test call, then they'll even verify the bass fix didn't break anything at the same time. 2) Therefore we plan to offer this service to all Openmoko owners within the EU harmonized market / tax union (to avoid re-import/ export hassle). What is the problem with a country outside EU? If the Norwegian government adds a tax or fee, as they usually do, then the payment is my problem. Not yours. They post office simply notify me and hold the returning package back until I sort it out. All they need to calculate tax is the receipt for the repair fee. I guess this is provided anyway, as businesses normally provide a receipt. Sure, there is a receipt. The issue is that we receive incoming packages through German customs and customs charges a tax based on the value of the incoming goods. Getting tax exemption is possible but needs a lot of extra paperwork and depends on the country it is coming from. So we limit it to the EU in the first step. If that works well, we can try to find a solution for other european countries as well. Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Debuzzing
On Wednesday 29 April 2009, Yorick Moko wrote: I know the kernel does that, but I normally boot from SD card, and when using gps i normally use maps, which are located on the SD card In my experience the capacitor isn't needed. I don't have it, have both maps and rootfs on SD, and don't have problems with GPS. Tests at the time of the kernel fix showed the GPS performing to specification even during SD activity. The second part of the kernel fix was to default the SD drive strength to the minimum instead of the higher level it previously used. This has a similar electrical effect to the capacitor, but applies to all the SD data lines, not just the clock line. I think most people will use maps from the sd card and a fair amount boots regulary from SD thanks for taking it into consideration y On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 3:44 PM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@computer.org wrote: Am 29.04.2009 um 14:28 schrieb Yorick Moko: And what about the sd-card?? that is a very easy fix to do Joerg advised to fix it also It is not really necessary to do that when using a more recent kernel that can switch off the SD card clock: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPS_Problems But it does not look very complicated so I will take your suggestion and find out what we can do. Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Debuzzing
Dear community, it is the philisophy of Golden Delicious Computers to find solutions for important topics that the community has and can't solve alone. Therefore, we (Golden Delicious Computers and TRIsoft) have worked behind the scenes and are close to offer a Buzz rework solution that can in principle serve all Freerunner Owners in the EU harmonized market. 1) We have identified a very good professional SMD rework company in Munich, Germany who are capable and willing to do the rework at low cost and high quality, but only if we deliver batches of collected devices. Since we are experienced in collecting incoming and outgoing shipments, the combination is the solution. 2) Therefore we plan to offer this service to all Openmoko owners within the EU harmonized market / tax union (to avoid re-import/export hassle). Please note that there will be a rework fee. The final price is not yet clear (expected to be less than 30 EUR incl. shipment) because we are in intensive discussions with Openmoko how they can help to reduce this fee for you. 3) Rework will take approx. 1 week and could start immediately, provided we get the promised replacement components in time. 4) If you are interested, please register yourself and your device at the following link. We will then follow up with details about handling, address to send to, time schedule, final pricing etc. http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Buzz-Rework So stay tuned, Nikolaus Mobile Office Solutions by Golden Delicious Computers GmbHCo. KG Buchenstr. 3 D-82041 Oberhaching +49-89-54290367 http://www.handheld-linux.com AG München, HRA 89571 VAT DE253626266 Komplementär: Golden Delicious Computers Verwaltungs GmbH Oberhaching, AG München, HRB 16602 Geschäftsführer: Dr. Nikolaus Schaller Digital Tools for Independent People ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
