Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
Hello, in what way can one retrieve news about this project, what is its duration estimate? Given that the project just wants to add 3G to the device it shouldnt take ages :), i will buy this device as soon as possible :). What about built-in mic/reproductor are they planned right? -- View this message in context: http://openmoko-public-mailinglists.1958.n2.nabble.com/New-Phone-Project-MiniMoko-Which-functionalities-tp5606912p5674872.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
Hello Gregoire, I'm Thomas, the one who sent an email to Alexandre for finding a way to work together. First, a really big ThankYou for responding directly here, everyone is happy to see that A.I. is a company near of its (future) consumers. This project is very exciting and a lot of people are ready to help on it. I think your idea of a childboard is one of the best way to follow, we could add a little slice of the MiniBook, fitting everything we want inside, without reinventing the wheel. (Yours is really cool!). So for starting to create such an addon, would it be possible to have some extra infos on the MID ? (Schemas, wiring diagrams or so ? ) The analysis of the MID board pictures helps a lot, but with those documents, we won't have to spend time doing reverse engineering ;-). I have a last question : When will it be possible to get first MiniBooks ? If we had one, it can be usefull for starting the job. Thanks again for your answer, your products, and your open mind. See you soon, Thomas HOCEDEZ / Asthro Openmoko-fr.org -- View this message in context: http://openmoko-public-mailinglists.1958.n2.nabble.com/New-Phone-Project-MiniMoko-Which-functionalities-tp5606912p5630763.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
On 12/10/2010 04:57, Esben Stien wrote: Thomas HOCEDEZthomas.hoce...@free.fr writes: Always Innovating (A.I.), is opened to think about a collaboration They have no mailing lists for their projects?. This projects comes from us (community). So the mailing list for the project is here ;-). ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
Thomas HOCEDEZ thomas.hoce...@free.fr writes: Always Innovating (A.I.), is opened to think about a collaboration They have no mailing lists for their projects?. -- Esben Stien is b...@e s a http://www. s tn m irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact sip:b0ef@ e e jid:b0ef@n n ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
On Saturday 09 October 2010, Thomas HOCEDEZ wrote: On 10/09/2010 06:15 PM, Al Johnson wrote: On Saturday 09 October 2010, Timo Jyrinki wrote: 2010/10/6 Eddered...@tkwsping.nl: Will it support headphone, with a microphone? I think it's safe nowadays to just assume Bluetooth headphones, ie. not all devices need the extra plugs if something has to be sacrificed. The 40 pin connector[1] has pins for headset left, right, mic and detect, so it should support a headset connecting through this at least. There is also a minijack socket that appears to be 3.5mm[2], but the spec[3] and pin disposition suggest this may be audio out only. If so it's an odd choice as there is a de fatcto standard for 4-pole minijacks for headphone and headset. 2010/10/6 giacomo 'giotti' marianigiacomomari...@yahoo.it: Looks like it miss USB connectivity and I need SSH strongly! Well SSH over Bluetooth personal area network works just fine, but indeed I'd also like USB port for charging and connecting other devices (host mode) USB is also on the 40-pin connector. Judging by the beagleboard, the OTG pins wil give gadget or OTG support while the other port will give host mode. There doesn't appear to be a 5V out pin though, so host mode may be unpowered. Personally I would rather see a pair of usb ports than the micro-HDMI and the barrel power connector, and make sure the headset connector is 4-pole with mic support. [1] http://alwaysinnovating.com/wiki/index.php/40-pin_connector [2] http://alwaysinnovating.com/wiki/index.php/MID_board [3] http://alwaysinnovating.com/wiki/index.php/Smart_Book_specs Interesting notes ! I add them to the Do/Don't Do list. Where is this list? I just answerd about a USB adapter (pluged into the 40pins). Perhaphs a multiport adapter, plugged in the 40pins, but with a 'U' form factor, so the wires will be parallel to the phone and behind. What about that ? Add some fold out legs and you have a docking station in the same unit. It's certainly neater than an octopus cable, or multiple adapters. In another post I suggested putting the 3G module, gps, pressure and ambient light sensors, magnetometer and gyro plus connectors in a small clip on module using the 40 pin connector. That makes phone and navigation hardware an option for those that want it without requiring AI to change their existing design, or force the extra expense on those that don't want it. The moko nav board v2 already shows the sensor circuit - 3.3v supply and i2c interface as available on the 40pin connector. There's a serial port for GPS too, which just leaves 3G, and perhaps some level shifting for the interfaces. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
Looks like we have 2 different opinions here: 1. attach-all-possible-staff-to-MID add new holes new connectors and so on, e.g. people dreams about open extra-cool phone. I'm a bit confused by such unrealistic direction of developing MiniMoko, and it will require at least 1-2 years. 2. Use already created MiniBook, just add gsm/3g board inside. IMHO, more realistic idea and definitely require less efforts. And one more note: attaching anything via external 40pin port, will make device impossible to attach to Smartbook. Maksim ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
On Sunday 10 October 2010, Maksim 'max_posedon' Melnikau wrote: Looks like we have 2 different opinions here: 1. attach-all-possible-staff-to-MID add new holes new connectors and so on, e.g. people dreams about open extra-cool phone. I'm a bit confused by such unrealistic direction of developing MiniMoko, and it will require at least 1-2 years. Probably true, but a nice long term target if AI want to make such a device. I _really_ want to see a phone with a daylight readable display! 2. Use already created MiniBook, just add gsm/3g board inside. IMHO, more realistic idea and definitely require less efforts. Certainly, space permitting. There may be enough space for navigation sensors too. They are easier to add than the 3G module, and have a similarly low requirement for case mods. And one more note: attaching anything via external 40pin port, will make device impossible to attach to Smartbook. The MiniBook can be connected as normal after removing the module. We could design the module so that it can connect everything via USB, in which case the module could dock to one of the USB connections available in the SmartBook. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
2. Use already created MiniBook, just add gsm/3g board inside. IMHO, more realistic idea and definitely require less efforts. Certainly, space permitting. There may be enough space for navigation sensors too. They are easier to add than the 3G module, and have a similarly low requirement for case mods. imho 3g phone module have a certain priority over all the rest. I think we should do things gradually, step by step, just to be concrete. hey, I'm not saying the rest is crap! just do one thing and do it well, to start moving wheels :) And one more note: attaching anything via external 40pin port, will make device impossible to attach to Smartbook. The MiniBook can be connected as normal after removing the module. We could design the module so that it can connect everything via USB, in which case the module could dock to one of the USB connections available in the SmartBook. so, why we don't just add the µ-usb port and use that both to connect that module, charge the phone, use it as flashdrive etc..? also you'd need one and only the usb port on the module so you'll be able to connect directly or through one of the others ports on the smartbook. and the barrel 5v connector is removable, imho. -- ALFA21 IS PROVIDED AS IS AND WITHOUT WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
On Sunday 10 October 2010, Alfa21 wrote: And one more note: attaching anything via external 40pin port, will make device impossible to attach to Smartbook. The MiniBook can be connected as normal after removing the module. We could design the module so that it can connect everything via USB, in which case the module could dock to one of the USB connections available in the SmartBook. so, why we don't just add the µ-usb port and use that both to connect that module, charge the phone, use it as flashdrive etc..? also you'd need one and only the usb port on the module so you'll be able to connect directly or through one of the others ports on the smartbook. Because the point of the module is that is doesn't require changes to the existing MiniBook. Much as I would like to replace the barrel and mini-HDMI with client and host usb sockets, that would require a board revision and new plastics. If that's being done then the board rev may as well include the bits that would have gone into the module. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
On 10/10/10 17:27, Al Johnson wrote: On Saturday 09 October 2010, Thomas HOCEDEZ wrote: On 10/09/2010 06:15 PM, Al Johnson wrote: On Saturday 09 October 2010, Timo Jyrinki wrote: 2010/10/6 Eddered...@tkwsping.nl: Will it support headphone, with a microphone? I think it's safe nowadays to just assume Bluetooth headphones, ie. not all devices need the extra plugs if something has to be sacrificed. The 40 pin connector[1] has pins for headset left, right, mic and detect, so it should support a headset connecting through this at least. There is also a minijack socket that appears to be 3.5mm[2], but the spec[3] and pin disposition suggest this may be audio out only. If so it's an odd choice as there is a de fatcto standard for 4-pole minijacks for headphone and headset. 2010/10/6 giacomo 'giotti' marianigiacomomari...@yahoo.it: Looks like it miss USB connectivity and I need SSH strongly! Well SSH over Bluetooth personal area network works just fine, but indeed I'd also like USB port for charging and connecting other devices (host mode) USB is also on the 40-pin connector. Judging by the beagleboard, the OTG pins wil give gadget or OTG support while the other port will give host mode. There doesn't appear to be a 5V out pin though, so host mode may be unpowered. Personally I would rather see a pair of usb ports than the micro-HDMI and the barrel power connector, and make sure the headset connector is 4-pole with mic support. [1] http://alwaysinnovating.com/wiki/index.php/40-pin_connector [2] http://alwaysinnovating.com/wiki/index.php/MID_board [3] http://alwaysinnovating.com/wiki/index.php/Smart_Book_specs Interesting notes ! I add them to the Do/Don't Do list. Where is this list? -- It's in my head, and in the ML also here : http://pollen.chorem.org/pollen/poll/votefor/6f8d4dbd06ca4ae9bb90d117a5dbaf79 I just answerd about a USB adapter (pluged into the 40pins). Perhaphs a multiport adapter, plugged in the 40pins, but with a 'U' form factor, so the wires will be parallel to the phone and behind. What about that ? Add some fold out legs and you have a docking station in the same unit. It's certainly neater than an octopus cable, or multiple adapters. In another post I suggested putting the 3G module, gps, pressure and ambient light sensors, magnetometer and gyro plus connectors in a small clip on module using the 40 pin connector. That makes phone and navigation hardware an option for those that want it without requiring AI to change their existing design, or force the extra expense on those that don't want it. The moko nav board v2 already shows the sensor circuit - 3.3v supply and i2c interface as available on the 40pin connector. There's a serial port for GPS too, which just leaves 3G, and perhaps some level shifting for the interfaces. Really really nice idea !!! I Like the idea of the dockable addon ! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
On 10/10/10 17:42, Maksim 'max_posedon' Melnikau wrote: Looks like we have 2 different opinions here: 1. attach-all-possible-staff-to-MID add new holes new connectors and so on, e.g. people dreams about open extra-cool phone. I'm a bit confused by such unrealistic direction of developing MiniMoko, and it will require at least 1-2 years. 2. Use already created MiniBook, just add gsm/3g board inside. IMHO, more realistic idea and definitely require less efforts. And one more note: attaching anything via external 40pin port, will make device impossible to attach to Smartbook. Maksim Definitly, the way we wanted to go here is the 2nd one. But your note is excellent, and we have to ask : do we have to plug the MiniBook to the smartbook with all its stuff ? (I assume it is 'yes'...,but, We'll had the questions for A.I.) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
On 10/10/10 20:09, Alfa21 wrote: 2. Use already created MiniBook, just add gsm/3g board inside. IMHO, more realistic idea and definitely require less efforts. Certainly, space permitting. There may be enough space for navigation sensors too. They are easier to add than the 3G module, and have a similarly low requirement for case mods. imho 3g phone module have a certain priority over all the rest. I think we should do things gradually, step by step, just to be concrete. hey, I'm not saying the rest is crap! just do one thing and do it well, to start moving wheels :) I wish I say your words ;-) And one more note: attaching anything via external 40pin port, will make device impossible to attach to Smartbook. The MiniBook can be connected as normal after removing the module. We could design the module so that it can connect everything via USB, in which case the module could dock to one of the USB connections available in the SmartBook. so, why we don't just add the µ-usb port and use that both to connect that module, charge the phone, use it as flashdrive etc..? also you'd need one and only the usb port on the module so you'll be able to connect directly or through one of the others ports on the smartbook. and the barrel 5v connector is removable, imho. Nice analysis, we have to be concrete, simple efficient. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
On 10/10/10 20:53, Al Johnson wrote: On Sunday 10 October 2010, Alfa21 wrote: And one more note: attaching anything via external 40pin port, will make device impossible to attach to Smartbook. The MiniBook can be connected as normal after removing the module. We could design the module so that it can connect everything via USB, in which case the module could dock to one of the USB connections available in the SmartBook. so, why we don't just add the µ-usb port and use that both to connect that module, charge the phone, use it as flashdrive etc..? also you'd need one and only the usb port on the module so you'll be able to connect directly or through one of the others ports on the smartbook. Because the point of the module is that is doesn't require changes to the existing MiniBook. Much as I would like to replace the barrel and mini-HDMI with client and host usb sockets, that would require a board revision and new plastics. If that's being done then the board rev may as well include the bits that would have gone into the module. As there will be 3G + SimCard reader + USB plugs, yes, the plastics may suffer a bit. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
2010/10/6 Edder ed...@tkwsping.nl: Will it support headphone, with a microphone? I think it's safe nowadays to just assume Bluetooth headphones, ie. not all devices need the extra plugs if something has to be sacrificed. 2010/10/6 giacomo 'giotti' mariani giacomomari...@yahoo.it: Looks like it miss USB connectivity and I need SSH strongly! Well SSH over Bluetooth personal area network works just fine, but indeed I'd also like USB port for charging and connecting other devices (host mode) 2010/10/6 Maksim 'max_posedon' Melnikau maxpose...@gmail.com: Sorry, I don't have skills in GPS, I just see that FR have a problem with getting fix It doesn't have a problem getting fix hardware-wise, probably just the software you use is not similar in features to eg. separately sold navigators. Which means that you have it always getting a fix starting without any data, where it takes similar time (or less) to most separate GPS devices. Basically the GPS hw on FreeRunner is quite good. I don't know what's the status of saving the GPS data and re-uploading those when turned on. Is it implemented in some version of FSO/gpsd or other software. -Timo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
2010-10...@10:52 Timo Jyrinki 2010/10/6 giacomo 'giotti' mariani: Looks like it miss USB connectivity and I need SSH strongly! Well SSH over Bluetooth personal area network works just fine, but indeed I'd also like USB port for charging and connecting other devices (host mode) please keep in mind that there is an European directive about that: http://phandroid.com/2009/06/30/microusb-becomes-european-standard-in-2010/ http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2009/02/european_commission_pushing_microusb_standard_for_mobile_phone_chargers-2/ I intended we _MUST_ include the microusb for any new mobile phone if it has to be sold in EU. and if we do not strictly must, it's a clever solution because: - you do not have to sell also the ad-hoc charger with the new hardware. - an user can easily find a compatible charging source when not at home (eg. friends, colleagues, any computer, car's usb socket...) btw microusb is quite thin, so maybe we can put it side by side to the 40pin connector using both sides of the MID's pcb. -- ALFA21 IS PROVIDED AS IS AND WITHOUT WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
09.10.2010 16:56, Alfa21 пишет: 2010-10...@10:52 Timo Jyrinki 2010/10/6 giacomo 'giotti' mariani: Looks like it miss USB connectivity and I need SSH strongly! Well SSH over Bluetooth personal area network works just fine, but indeed I'd also like USB port for charging and connecting other devices (host mode) please keep in mind that there is an European directive about that: http://phandroid.com/2009/06/30/microusb-becomes-european-standard-in-2010/ http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2009/02/european_commission_pushing_microusb_standard_for_mobile_phone_chargers-2/ I intended we _MUST_ include the microusb for any new mobile phone if it has to be sold in EU. and if we do not strictly must, it's a clever solution because: - you do not have to sell also the ad-hoc charger with the new hardware. - an user can easily find a compatible charging source when not at home (eg. friends, colleagues, any computer, car's usb socket...) btw microusb is quite thin, so maybe we can put it side by side to the 40pin connector using both sides of the MID's pcb. Dudes, what you think about normal usb instead microusb? many devices can be easily plugged into the phone. Not for long usage of course. flash drives, tv tuners, keyboard, gamepad, etc... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
On Saturday 09 October 2010, Timo Jyrinki wrote: 2010/10/6 Edder ed...@tkwsping.nl: Will it support headphone, with a microphone? I think it's safe nowadays to just assume Bluetooth headphones, ie. not all devices need the extra plugs if something has to be sacrificed. The 40 pin connector[1] has pins for headset left, right, mic and detect, so it should support a headset connecting through this at least. There is also a minijack socket that appears to be 3.5mm[2], but the spec[3] and pin disposition suggest this may be audio out only. If so it's an odd choice as there is a de fatcto standard for 4-pole minijacks for headphone and headset. 2010/10/6 giacomo 'giotti' mariani giacomomari...@yahoo.it: Looks like it miss USB connectivity and I need SSH strongly! Well SSH over Bluetooth personal area network works just fine, but indeed I'd also like USB port for charging and connecting other devices (host mode) USB is also on the 40-pin connector. Judging by the beagleboard, the OTG pins wil give gadget or OTG support while the other port will give host mode. There doesn't appear to be a 5V out pin though, so host mode may be unpowered. Personally I would rather see a pair of usb ports than the micro-HDMI and the barrel power connector, and make sure the headset connector is 4-pole with mic support. [1] http://alwaysinnovating.com/wiki/index.php/40-pin_connector [2] http://alwaysinnovating.com/wiki/index.php/MID_board [3] http://alwaysinnovating.com/wiki/index.php/Smart_Book_specs ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
Em 09-10-2010 15:15, Chuck Norris escreveu: Dudes, what you think about normal usb instead microusb? many devices can be easily plugged into the phone. Not for long usage of course. flash drives, tv tuners, keyboard, gamepad, etc... µ-usb means a much smaller piece, contributing to smaller size, lesser weigh and particle penetration (dust, all) and more compliance with EU law. Don't know about prices, on one hand it's more common so should be less pricey, but on the other hand it has much more material. Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
On 10/09/2010 08:03 PM, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote: Em 09-10-2010 15:15, Chuck Norris escreveu: Dudes, what you think about normal usb instead microusb? many devices can be easily plugged into the phone. Not for long usage of course. flash drives, tv tuners, keyboard, gamepad, etc... µ-usb means a much smaller piece, contributing to smaller size, lesser weigh and particle penetration (dust, all) and more compliance with EU law. Don't know about prices, on one hand it's more common so should be less pricey, but on the other hand it has much more material. Rui _ Hello, This idea sounds a good one, but as Rui said, the main problem is a lack of space. The USB female connector is 4 to 6 times bigger than a MiniUSB one ... And when you work on a phone, you can put a lot of things in such place. But It's not a bad idea to add a miniUSB/USB adapter in the box (why not a 'U' adapter that let the USB device behind the phone (parallel)... I repeat : sounds good. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
On 10/09/2010 06:15 PM, Al Johnson wrote: On Saturday 09 October 2010, Timo Jyrinki wrote: 2010/10/6 Eddered...@tkwsping.nl: Will it support headphone, with a microphone? I think it's safe nowadays to just assume Bluetooth headphones, ie. not all devices need the extra plugs if something has to be sacrificed. The 40 pin connector[1] has pins for headset left, right, mic and detect, so it should support a headset connecting through this at least. There is also a minijack socket that appears to be 3.5mm[2], but the spec[3] and pin disposition suggest this may be audio out only. If so it's an odd choice as there is a de fatcto standard for 4-pole minijacks for headphone and headset. 2010/10/6 giacomo 'giotti' marianigiacomomari...@yahoo.it: Looks like it miss USB connectivity and I need SSH strongly! Well SSH over Bluetooth personal area network works just fine, but indeed I'd also like USB port for charging and connecting other devices (host mode) USB is also on the 40-pin connector. Judging by the beagleboard, the OTG pins wil give gadget or OTG support while the other port will give host mode. There doesn't appear to be a 5V out pin though, so host mode may be unpowered. Personally I would rather see a pair of usb ports than the micro-HDMI and the barrel power connector, and make sure the headset connector is 4-pole with mic support. [1] http://alwaysinnovating.com/wiki/index.php/40-pin_connector [2] http://alwaysinnovating.com/wiki/index.php/MID_board [3] http://alwaysinnovating.com/wiki/index.php/Smart_Book_specs ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Interesting notes ! I add them to the Do/Don't Do list. I just answerd about a USB adapter (pluged into the 40pins). Perhaphs a multiport adapter, plugged in the 40pins, but with a 'U' form factor, so the wires will be parallel to the phone and behind. What about that ? AstHrO ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
On Wednesday 06 October 2010, Thomas HOCEDEZ wrote: Hi, As you might have read, Always Innovating (A.I.), is opened to think about a collaboration between them and us (Openmoko community) to build a phone based on their MiniBook. This device is a MID, without phone capabilities (except VoIP). So the idea is to build something together on that basis. I don't want AT ALL to shortcut GTA04 project, which is vital for everyone, so the main idea would be to improve a bit the MiniBook, generating a lite version of the GTA04. By lite, I suggest not to overload the bill motherboard with extra features that GTA04 will bring. More, The MiniBook have to stay an A.I. product, this mean, it must be linkable to the others as it does today. For information, MiniBook has already impressive specs : * TI http://www.ti.com cortex-A8 with 3D and video acceleration * 512MB (RAM) + 256MB (NAND) Memory * Main storage: 8GB microSD card * 480x320 3.5 capacitive touchscreen * 30fps VGA front webcam * Wifi 802.11 b/g/n, Bluetooth class 2.1 * Video output HDMI HD * Two high-quality stereo speakers * Internal microphone * Headphone jack * 3-dimensional accelerometer * One 1500 mAh battery * Bi-color silver/black case * 64mm x 106mm x 9.3mm * Secured attachment of the MID into a Touch Book Table There's nothing much to improve, nothing to remove, just adding GSM/3G chip. Nikolaus Schaller pointed the OPTION GTM501, which is a brilliant little chip ! And if we use the same one, the porting of distros/software will be easier from one machine to another. So, the first question is : What to add for this project being interresting ? Those will be minimal functions (forget Wimax, 4G, coffe machines or color printer ...). GPS - I wouldn't buy without it. It's just too useful for navigation. 3 axis magnetometer - from recent experience it is sometimes very useful to know which way you're facing as well as where you are. 3 axis accel, gyro and a pressure sensor would be nice but less important. Daylight readable screen - again from recent experience in a sunny environment. A transreflective screen, or one from PixelQi, would be better as they would cut down on the power needed for backlighting in bright environments. An ambient light sensor would be good to automate the backlight level. Better screen resolution - at least 640x480. It really does make the screen more legible, and significantly broadens the number of apps that can be used without gui porting. USB host mode Standard connectors for USB host/otg/device and charging. These could be in place of the mini-HDMI and coax power connectors. Given what's on the 40 pin connector an option might be to have a dockable module that can go either on the end of the MiniBook or inside the SmartBook. That would enable everything but the screen changes without changing the existing MiniBook design, and seems similar to the DualScreen module in design philosophy. Second question : Debian is able to run on such a device, but does developpers of other distributions can tell if it would be possible to port their on it ? If debian can run on it there should be no problem porting to other distros. Similarities to the beagleboard and n900 may mean other distros can already work with it. Third question : On the basis we have a 'paper' version of the phone, is there anyone able to give a hand to AI for the integration of new components on the board or do we let AI do the major part of the job ? (this way, we only would be 'consultants' for them). That probably depends on what they decide to do. On the hardware side they should be more than capable of implementing anything suggested above. Pick the right components and support may already be present either in the mainstream kernel or other open drivers. See the FR Navigation Board[1] for some examples, and n900 sensor support in the mainstream kernel for others. Thanks for your interest. Thomas. [1] http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Freerunner_Navigation_Board_v2 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
Le 06/10/2010 17:18, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra a écrit : Em 06-10-2010 13:41, Thomas HOCEDEZ escreveu: * 480x320 3.5 capacitive touchscreen A phone is the perfect size to integrate: * personal communication (phone, IM, social network) * always present camera (still or moving pictures) * computational needs (ssh somewhere, do stuff) * run useful programs (like email, web browser, games, other apps) For these to run well in a phone you need at least 480x800. The Freerunner's 480x640 is definitly too small for most web browsing. If I go one step further in size, I'm talking about tablets: From personal experience with a SmartQ7 (now sadly broken), I attest the following: 480x800 is *not* enough for displaying a more complex document properly (eg, a PDF with readable text and pleasently displayed), you need a bigger screensize. So when you consider such small resolutions... it's definitely not for me. I'll have to agree with you. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
On 06/10/2010 16:31, Timo Juhani Lindfors wrote: Thomas HOCEDEZthomas.hoce...@free.fr writes: There's nothing much to improve, nothing to remove, just adding GSM/3G chip. Nikolaus Schaller pointed the OPTION GTM501, which is a brilliant little chip ! And if we use the same one, the porting of distros/software will be easier from one machine to another. I read http://www.option.com/en/products/products/modules/gtm501/specifications/#start that promises Fully documented APIs. Do you have access to these documents? This is the chip used for the GTA04, but I'm not working on it. I can ask the ones involved in the project if you want. (or find Dr Nikolaus Schaller on this ML) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
On 06/10/2010 17:17, Maksim 'max_posedon' Melnikau wrote: On 10/6/10, Thomas HOCEDEZthomas.hoce...@free.fr wrote: So, the first question is : What to add for this project being interresting ? Those will be minimal functions (forget Wimax, 4G, coffe machines or color printer ...). As for me I just want Voice Calls/SMS and thats all. Even gprs/3G not important, because I can attach separate dongle inside smartbook itself. Similar about GPS. Quality of FR's GPS was much worse than in separate devices, GPS inside MID might be even worse than in FR, implement nice GPS signal in MID could be very hard task. I'll prefer use separate GPS dongle. -- So you wan the ability to plug some dongles on it ...? Second question : Debian is able to run on such a device, but does developpers of other distributions can tell if it would be possible to port their on it ? MID is very similar to n900, we can say that SHR already supports it, similar for all others distros which supports BeagleBoard. Touchbook now supported by many OS'es. So it is a question which distros have FSO support. Andoid also could be a option, especially if AI's multi-OS support works nice. -- And an OS that is commercialy vendor is mandatory for the merketing plan. Maksim ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
On 10/7/10, Thomas HOCEDEZ thomas.hoce...@free.fr wrote: Similar about GPS. Quality of FR's GPS was much worse than in separate devices, GPS inside MID might be even worse than in FR, implement nice GPS signal in MID could be very hard task. I'll prefer use separate GPS dongle. So you wan the ability to plug some dongles on it ...? I might be was misunderstood, I see on MiniBook as *part of* Smartbook, and Smartbook already have a lot of space inside[1] where I can I attach usb dongles, I don't want attach anything in MiniBook. MiniBook for me, just should be able make calls. All other staff can be attached to Smartbook tablet part. [1] http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/wiki/index.php/Smart_Book_top_part ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
Hi, As you might have read, Always Innovating (A.I.), is opened to think about a collaboration between them and us (Openmoko community) to build a phone based on their MiniBook. This device is a MID, without phone capabilities (except VoIP). So the idea is to build something together on that basis. I don't want AT ALL to shortcut GTA04 project, which is vital for everyone, so the main idea would be to improve a bit the MiniBook, generating a lite version of the GTA04. By lite, I suggest not to overload the bill motherboard with extra features that GTA04 will bring. More, The MiniBook have to stay an A.I. product, this mean, it must be linkable to the others as it does today. For information, MiniBook has already impressive specs : * TI http://www.ti.com cortex-A8 with 3D and video acceleration * 512MB (RAM) + 256MB (NAND) Memory * Main storage: 8GB microSD card * 480x320 3.5 capacitive touchscreen * 30fps VGA front webcam * Wifi 802.11 b/g/n, Bluetooth class 2.1 * Video output HDMI HD * Two high-quality stereo speakers * Internal microphone * Headphone jack * 3-dimensional accelerometer * One 1500 mAh battery * Bi-color silver/black case * 64mm x 106mm x 9.3mm * Secured attachment of the MID into a Touch Book Table There's nothing much to improve, nothing to remove, just adding GSM/3G chip. Nikolaus Schaller pointed the OPTION GTM501, which is a brilliant little chip ! And if we use the same one, the porting of distros/software will be easier from one machine to another. So, the first question is : What to add for this project being interresting ? Those will be minimal functions (forget Wimax, 4G, coffe machines or color printer ...). Second question : Debian is able to run on such a device, but does developpers of other distributions can tell if it would be possible to port their on it ? Third question : On the basis we have a 'paper' version of the phone, is there anyone able to give a hand to AI for the integration of new components on the board or do we let AI do the major part of the job ? (this way, we only would be 'consultants' for them). Thanks for your interest. Thomas. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
On 06/10/2010 14:41, Thomas HOCEDEZ wrote: Hi, As you might have read, Always Innovating (A.I.), is opened to think about a collaboration between them and us (Openmoko community) to build a phone based on their MiniBook. This device is a MID, without phone capabilities (except VoIP). So the idea is to build something together on that basis. I don't want AT ALL to shortcut GTA04 project, which is vital for everyone, so the main idea would be to improve a bit the MiniBook, generating a lite version of the GTA04. By lite, I suggest not to overload the bill motherboard with extra features that GTA04 will bring. More, The MiniBook have to stay an A.I. product, this mean, it must be linkable to the others as it does today. For information, MiniBook has already impressive specs : * TI http://www.ti.com cortex-A8 with 3D and video acceleration * 512MB (RAM) + 256MB (NAND) Memory * Main storage: 8GB microSD card * 480x320 3.5 capacitive touchscreen * 30fps VGA front webcam * Wifi 802.11 b/g/n, Bluetooth class 2.1 * Video output HDMI HD * Two high-quality stereo speakers * Internal microphone * Headphone jack * 3-dimensional accelerometer * One 1500 mAh battery * Bi-color silver/black case * 64mm x 106mm x 9.3mm * Secured attachment of the MID into a Touch Book Table There's nothing much to improve, nothing to remove, just adding GSM/3G chip. Nikolaus Schaller pointed the OPTION GTM501, which is a brilliant little chip ! And if we use the same one, the porting of distros/software will be easier from one machine to another. So, the first question is : What to add for this project being interresting ? Those will be minimal functions (forget Wimax, 4G, coffe machines or color printer ...). Second question : Debian is able to run on such a device, but does developpers of other distributions can tell if it would be possible to port their on it ? Third question : On the basis we have a 'paper' version of the phone, is there anyone able to give a hand to AI for the integration of new components on the board or do we let AI do the major part of the job ? (this way, we only would be 'consultants' for them). Thanks for your interest. Thomas. I forgot to mention that it would be AWESOME to have some words in this idea from Sean M.P. ! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
Thomas HOCEDEZ thomas.hoce...@free.fr writes: their MiniBook. I would buy it, if it was wrist mountable; sort of a slide in mount on my wrist. -- Esben Stien is b...@e s a http://www. s tn m irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact sip:b0ef@ e e jid:b0ef@n n ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
Hi their MiniBook. I would buy it, if it was wrist mountable; sort of a slide in mount on my wrist. I would buy it. Full stop :-) I cant find any demo videoos on the minibook ? *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
On 6 October 2010 13:41, Thomas HOCEDEZ thomas.hoce...@free.fr wrote: Hi, As you might have read, Always Innovating (A.I.), is opened to think about a collaboration between them and us (Openmoko community) to build a phone based on their MiniBook. Sounds like a great idea TI cortex-A8 with 3D and video acceleration 512MB (RAM) + 256MB (NAND) Memory Main storage: 8GB microSD card 480x320 3.5 capacitive touchscreen 30fps VGA front webcam Wifi 802.11 b/g/n, Bluetooth class 2.1 Video output HDMI HD Two high-quality stereo speakers Internal microphone Headphone jack Will it support headphone, with a microphone? 3-dimensional accelerometer One 1500 mAh battery Bi-color silver/black case 64mm x 106mm x 9.3mm Secured attachment of the MID into a Touch Book Table There's nothing much to improve, nothing to remove, just adding GSM/3G chip. Nikolaus Schaller pointed the OPTION GTM501, which is a brilliant little chip ! And if we use the same one, the porting of distros/software will be easier from one machine to another. So, the first question is : What to add for this project being interresting ? Those will be minimal functions (forget Wimax, 4G, coffe machines or color printer ...). I wouldn't consider getting one unless it also has a GPS chip. Cheers, Edwin ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
+1 for a GPS chip also And availability in Europe (or more general: outside US)? Regards, Marc On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 3:33 PM, Edder ed...@tkwsping.nl wrote: On 6 October 2010 13:41, Thomas HOCEDEZ thomas.hoce...@free.fr wrote: Hi, As you might have read, Always Innovating (A.I.), is opened to think about a collaboration between them and us (Openmoko community) to build a phone based on their MiniBook. Sounds like a great idea TI cortex-A8 with 3D and video acceleration 512MB (RAM) + 256MB (NAND) Memory Main storage: 8GB microSD card 480x320 3.5 capacitive touchscreen 30fps VGA front webcam Wifi 802.11 b/g/n, Bluetooth class 2.1 Video output HDMI HD Two high-quality stereo speakers Internal microphone Headphone jack Will it support headphone, with a microphone? 3-dimensional accelerometer One 1500 mAh battery Bi-color silver/black case 64mm x 106mm x 9.3mm Secured attachment of the MID into a Touch Book Table There's nothing much to improve, nothing to remove, just adding GSM/3G chip. Nikolaus Schaller pointed the OPTION GTM501, which is a brilliant little chip ! And if we use the same one, the porting of distros/software will be easier from one machine to another. So, the first question is : What to add for this project being interresting ? Those will be minimal functions (forget Wimax, 4G, coffe machines or color printer ...). I wouldn't consider getting one unless it also has a GPS chip. Cheers, Edwin ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
Thomas HOCEDEZ thomas.hoce...@free.fr writes: There's nothing much to improve, nothing to remove, just adding GSM/3G chip. Nikolaus Schaller pointed the OPTION GTM501, which is a brilliant little chip ! And if we use the same one, the porting of distros/software will be easier from one machine to another. I read http://www.option.com/en/products/products/modules/gtm501/specifications/#start that promises Fully documented APIs. Do you have access to these documents? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
* TI http://www.ti.com cortex-A8 with 3D and video acceleration * 512MB (RAM) + 256MB (NAND) Memory * Main storage: 8GB microSD card * 480x320 3.5 capacitive touchscreen * 30fps VGA front webcam * Wifi 802.11 b/g/n, Bluetooth class 2.1 * Video output HDMI HD * Two high-quality stereo speakers * Internal microphone * Headphone jack * 3-dimensional accelerometer * One 1500 mAh battery * Bi-color silver/black case * 64mm x 106mm x 9.3mm * Secured attachment of the MID into a Touch Book Table Looks like it miss USB connectivity and I need SSH strongly! Cheers __ Do You Yahoo!? Poco spazio e tanto spam? Yahoo! Mail ti protegge dallo spam e ti da tanto spazio gratuito per i tuoi file e i messaggi http://mail.yahoo.it ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
On 10/6/10, Thomas HOCEDEZ thomas.hoce...@free.fr wrote: So, the first question is : What to add for this project being interresting ? Those will be minimal functions (forget Wimax, 4G, coffe machines or color printer ...). As for me I just want Voice Calls/SMS and thats all. Even gprs/3G not important, because I can attach separate dongle inside smartbook itself. Similar about GPS. Quality of FR's GPS was much worse than in separate devices, GPS inside MID might be even worse than in FR, implement nice GPS signal in MID could be very hard task. I'll prefer use separate GPS dongle. Second question : Debian is able to run on such a device, but does developpers of other distributions can tell if it would be possible to port their on it ? MID is very similar to n900, we can say that SHR already supports it, similar for all others distros which supports BeagleBoard. Touchbook now supported by many OS'es. So it is a question which distros have FSO support. Andoid also could be a option, especially if AI's multi-OS support works nice. Maksim ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
Em 06-10-2010 13:41, Thomas HOCEDEZ escreveu: * 480x320 3.5 capacitive touchscreen A phone is the perfect size to integrate: * personal communication (phone, IM, social network) * always present camera (still or moving pictures) * computational needs (ssh somewhere, do stuff) * run useful programs (like email, web browser, games, other apps) For these to run well in a phone you need at least 480x800. The Freerunner's 480x640 is definitly too small for most web browsing. If I go one step further in size, I'm talking about tablets: From personal experience with a SmartQ7 (now sadly broken), I attest the following: 480x800 is *not* enough for displaying a more complex document properly (eg, a PDF with readable text and pleasently displayed), you need a bigger screensize. So when you consider such small resolutions... it's definitely not for me. But good luck, though. Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
Maksim 'max_posedon' Melnikau maxpose...@gmail.com writes: Similar about GPS. Quality of FR's GPS was much worse than in separate What do you mean by quality? Just TTFF? Together with rtklib you can get great precision. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
On 10/6/10, Timo Juhani Lindfors timo.lindf...@iki.fi wrote: Maksim 'max_posedon' Melnikau maxpose...@gmail.com writes: Similar about GPS. Quality of FR's GPS was much worse than in separate What do you mean by quality? Just TTFF? Together with rtklib you can get great precision. Sorry, I don't have skills in GPS, I just see that FR have a problem with getting fix, and expect even more problems with gps(and gsm) in device, which wasn't designed to have nice wireless compatibility. Having lower GSM signal level isn't a problem - usually its very nice in cities. But gps in such conditions(in cities) can just become useless. One more note,I'm looking at MiniMoko just as *part* of full SmartBook. I really love this device in complex, its nice when I can have *same rootfs* in laptop, in phone, in tablet, in mobile tablet device. So, when people say that MiniMoko have small screen - I don't care, I would attach it in SmartTablet and have big screen. When I'll want keyboard - I'll attach keyboard and use SmartBook. This is reason, why (imho) GSM/3G Voice is very important, and GPS is less important for such device - just because GPS could be attached in tablet part. GPS is smth that you sometimes want to be always on and this is reason, why I want separate device - to keep battery. If somebody want use navigation from MiniBook, may be its time for them look at cell-nav projects once more? (openbmap, opencell and so on) Maksim ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
Le 06/10/2010 14:41, Thomas HOCEDEZ a écrit : Hi, As you might have read, Always Innovating (A.I.), is opened to think about a collaboration between them and us (Openmoko community) to build a phone based on their MiniBook. IMHO, this is probably the best news since a (too) long time ! It's a really GREAT idea ! Let me explain my dream : A MiniMoko with at least : - GSM/3G - mini-USB port (with host mode ?) - GPS less important : - better camera (for shots) - bluetooth (for headphones + mic) - higher screen resolution And finally will need a simple dock for home with : - HDMI port (- desktop screen) - USB ports (- mouse + keyboard + peripherals) - hard disk (- sata ? USB3 ?) That would be the perfect device ! I'm not enought skilled in hardware nor software development, but I will buy one ! I'm ready to pre-order now for those features at reasonnable cost ;-) -- /swap38 http://openmoko-fr.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Phone Project (MiniMoko) : Which functionalities ?
06.10.2010 19:41, Thomas HOCEDEZ ?: Hi, As you might have read, Always Innovating (A.I.), is opened to think about a collaboration between them and us (Openmoko community) to build a phone based on their MiniBook. This device is a MID, without phone capabilities (except VoIP). So the idea is to build something together on that basis. I don't want AT ALL to shortcut GTA04 project, which is vital for everyone, so the main idea would be to improve a bit the MiniBook, generating a lite version of the GTA04. By lite, I suggest not to overload the bill motherboard with extra features that GTA04 will bring. More, The MiniBook have to stay an A.I. product, this mean, it must be linkable to the others as it does today. For information, MiniBook has already impressive specs : * TI http://www.ti.com cortex-A8 with 3D and video acceleration * 512MB (RAM) + 256MB (NAND) Memory * Main storage: 8GB microSD card * 480x320 3.5 capacitive touchscreen * 30fps VGA front webcam * Wifi 802.11 b/g/n, Bluetooth class 2.1 * Video output HDMI HD * Two high-quality stereo speakers * Internal microphone * Headphone jack * 3-dimensional accelerometer * One 1500 mAh battery * Bi-color silver/black case * 64mm x 106mm x 9.3mm * Secured attachment of the MID into a Touch Book Table There's nothing much to improve, nothing to remove, just adding GSM/3G chip. Nikolaus Schaller pointed the OPTION GTM501, which is a brilliant little chip ! And if we use the same one, the porting of distros/software will be easier from one machine to another. So, the first question is : What to add for this project being interresting ? Those will be minimal functions (forget Wimax, 4G, coffe machines or color printer ...). Second question : Debian is able to run on such a device, but does developpers of other distributions can tell if it would be possible to port their on it ? Third question : On the basis we have a 'paper' version of the phone, is there anyone able to give a hand to AI for the integration of new components on the board or do we let AI do the major part of the job ? (this way, we only would be 'consultants' for them). Thanks for your interest. Thomas. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community GPS(I highly use it outdoors), 3G, 5-7 mpx camera(It would be nice if you always have camera with you) on back, buttons for increase/decrease volume. Better screen resolution is less important, but I think 800x480 now is standard for such device. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
