Re: cellhunter --- the state of development and future
Sebastian Hammerl wrote: Hi, Here are some updates about cellhunter. I am currently working at an online map so you can view already found cells around you. I am using tangogps to display the cells and it looks like: http://78.47.116.33/~hole/cellhunter/images/tangogps.png I created a tangogps repository which overlays the celldata over openstreetmap. So you know if somebody has been there and where you can get new cells. It is not finished yet but I will release it soon. Greetings, Sebastian ivvmm schrieb: I wonder how quick is it developed and how much people are involved in? In fact no one in my country is using it(looked at the map on cellhunter's site). By also looking at the map we can see that many regions are already covered. So when the next steps will be taken? I mean integrating the ability to get a fix from a network cell for GPS clients. TangoGPS for example? Or will cellhunter remain just a game? Thank you very much. This feature is a useful one that will help me as I have already forgotten what places I had fetched and what not. It looks like it is time for a feature request for TangoGPS to allow overlaying of maps: not just points where GPS was linked with GSM, but OSM over Google maps or so as number of repositories grow. My SD card is running out of space because of maps. And now additional repository will be added which partly duplicates OSM! signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: cellhunter --- the state of development and future
Hi, Here are some updates about cellhunter. I am currently working at an online map so you can view already found cells around you. I am using tangogps to display the cells and it looks like: http://78.47.116.33/~hole/cellhunter/images/tangogps.png I created a tangogps repository which overlays the celldata over openstreetmap. So you know if somebody has been there and where you can get new cells. It is not finished yet but I will release it soon. Greetings, Sebastian ivvmm schrieb: I wonder how quick is it developed and how much people are involved in? In fact no one in my country is using it(looked at the map on cellhunter's site). By also looking at the map we can see that many regions are already covered. So when the next steps will be taken? I mean integrating the ability to get a fix from a network cell for GPS clients. TangoGPS for example? Or will cellhunter remain just a game? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: cellhunter --- the state of development and future
Hi, as stated before, FSO team has started some work on database on the phone. Maybe you should get in touch with them, in order to build something together. Of course if you think openBmap could be of any help with your work, feel free to get in touch with me! Onen fredrik normann wrote: Understand that things are moving in the same direction :) but I still think a local db of the data you have collected yourself is a good idea :) I am playing with some code my self now, trying to make something. -f- On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 6:48 AM, Onen onen.om http://onen.om@free.fr http://free.fr wrote: Hi, regarding the settings based on location. ptitjes from SHR is working on an ologicd, which implements reasoning on the phone. He is interested in this cell location based service, as one of the inputs for his ologicd. Onen fredrik normann wrote: Wouln't it be smarter to have a local db on the phone, so after a while the phone will learn where it is all the time and can aply diffrent settings do things according to that? -f- On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Onen onen.om http://onen.om http://onen.om@free.fr http://free.fr http://free.fr wrote: Hi, adding to my last comments... Onen wrote: Ok. If I understand you correctly, you would like some kind of anonymous account, where people could upload if they don't want to create an account? Did I understand you correctly? Well I have nothing against it, it is a good idea to me. But is it good enough regarding legal aspect? Creative commons license makes you have to put the name of contributors (and possibly link them to the data they provided, not sure about this). Is an anonymous account compatible with this? I guess, if people would upload using a same account, this would be one contributor name, and would legally be ok, isn't it? Another point against an open account: imagine somebody starts uploading garbage. Once we notice it. It could be difficult to know what to delete, if a lot of people are using this account. I am not very sure we could reliably rely on IP address to find out what should be deleted. Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: cellhunter --- the state of development and future
On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 3:15 PM, Onen onen...@free.fr wrote: Hi, as stated before, FSO team has started some work on database on the phone. Maybe you should get in touch with them, in order to build something together. Are there some code somewhere that i can look at? Of course if you think openBmap could be of any help with your work, feel free to get in touch with me! I am learning from your code :) But I want to make a different datastructure. The GsmCell should be like objects that collect information about its self over time, but more or less use the datastructures from the FSO functions... or something :) I am mostly just playing with the code to get more into the FSO stack and python again :) -fredrin- Onen fredrik normann wrote: Understand that things are moving in the same direction :) but I still think a local db of the data you have collected yourself is a good idea :) I am playing with some code my self now, trying to make something. -f- On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 6:48 AM, Onen onen.om http://onen.om@free.fr http://free.fr wrote: Hi, regarding the settings based on location. ptitjes from SHR is working on an ologicd, which implements reasoning on the phone. He is interested in this cell location based service, as one of the inputs for his ologicd. Onen fredrik normann wrote: Wouln't it be smarter to have a local db on the phone, so after a while the phone will learn where it is all the time and can aply diffrent settings do things according to that? -f- On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Onen onen.om http://onen.om http://onen.om@free.fr http://free.fr http://free.fr wrote: Hi, adding to my last comments... Onen wrote: Ok. If I understand you correctly, you would like some kind of anonymous account, where people could upload if they don't want to create an account? Did I understand you correctly? Well I have nothing against it, it is a good idea to me. But is it good enough regarding legal aspect? Creative commons license makes you have to put the name of contributors (and possibly link them to the data they provided, not sure about this). Is an anonymous account compatible with this? I guess, if people would upload using a same account, this would be one contributor name, and would legally be ok, isn't it? Another point against an open account: imagine somebody starts uploading garbage. Once we notice it. It could be difficult to know what to delete, if a lot of people are using this account. I am not very sure we could reliably rely on IP address to find out what should be deleted. Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Local GSM db on the phone (Was:Re: cellhunter --- the state of development and future)
fredrik normann wrote: On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 3:15 PM, Onen onen.om http://onen.om@free.fr http://free.fr wrote: Hi, as stated before, FSO team has started some work on database on the phone. Maybe you should get in touch with them, in order to build something together. Are there some code somewhere that i can look at? The commits I was referring to: http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=framework.git;a=commit;h=bcc9257634bc42d1bc3531633e62d29cb93aba37 http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=framework.git;a=commit;h=b6cf00aa9970368debac89edd9ed69cac032779d http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=framework.git;a=commit;h=567f3454e19fac756a03ba58a7a3c5e909519780 I did a quick search to point it to you. I may miss some more commits, though. Of course if you think openBmap could be of any help with your work, feel free to get in touch with me! I am learning from your code :) :-) But I want to make a different datastructure. The GsmCell should be like objects that collect information about its self over time, but more or less use the datastructures from the FSO functions... or something :) The code is in a public git. You can follow work there. If you want to discuss this and/or think this could be included in openBmap logger I would be more than happy to talk about it! I plan to rework some of the GSM part, this could be a good opportunity to include more... I am mostly just playing with the code to get more into the FSO stack and python again :) Ok, to be honest, this is not exactly clear for me right now what you have in mind. So if you want to explain maybe a little bit further, and/or want precision about my code, feel free. Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Local GSM db on the phone (Was:Re: cellhunter --- the state of development and future)
Thanks man! I am a bit offline right now, dont have internet in my house and have to use internet cafes :( But it makes time for reading code, lol -fredrin- On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 4:03 PM, Onen onen...@free.fr wrote: fredrik normann wrote: On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 3:15 PM, Onen onen.om http://onen.om@free.fr http://free.fr wrote: Hi, as stated before, FSO team has started some work on database on the phone. Maybe you should get in touch with them, in order to build something together. Are there some code somewhere that i can look at? The commits I was referring to: http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=framework.git;a=commit;h=bcc9257634bc42d1bc3531633e62d29cb93aba37 http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=framework.git;a=commit;h=b6cf00aa9970368debac89edd9ed69cac032779d http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=framework.git;a=commit;h=567f3454e19fac756a03ba58a7a3c5e909519780 I did a quick search to point it to you. I may miss some more commits, though. Of course if you think openBmap could be of any help with your work, feel free to get in touch with me! I am learning from your code :) :-) But I want to make a different datastructure. The GsmCell should be like objects that collect information about its self over time, but more or less use the datastructures from the FSO functions... or something :) The code is in a public git. You can follow work there. If you want to discuss this and/or think this could be included in openBmap logger I would be more than happy to talk about it! I plan to rework some of the GSM part, this could be a good opportunity to include more... I am mostly just playing with the code to get more into the FSO stack and python again :) Ok, to be honest, this is not exactly clear for me right now what you have in mind. So if you want to explain maybe a little bit further, and/or want precision about my code, feel free. Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: cellhunter --- the state of development and future
Hi, do you mean a local db, and you do not upload to an online db at all? Onen fredrik normann wrote: Wouln't it be smarter to have a local db on the phone, so after a while the phone will learn where it is all the time and can aply diffrent settings do things according to that? -f- On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Onen onen.om http://onen.om@free.fr http://free.fr wrote: Hi, adding to my last comments... Onen wrote: Ok. If I understand you correctly, you would like some kind of anonymous account, where people could upload if they don't want to create an account? Did I understand you correctly? Well I have nothing against it, it is a good idea to me. But is it good enough regarding legal aspect? Creative commons license makes you have to put the name of contributors (and possibly link them to the data they provided, not sure about this). Is an anonymous account compatible with this? I guess, if people would upload using a same account, this would be one contributor name, and would legally be ok, isn't it? Another point against an open account: imagine somebody starts uploading garbage. Once we notice it. It could be difficult to know what to delete, if a lot of people are using this account. I am not very sure we could reliably rely on IP address to find out what should be deleted. Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: cellhunter --- the state of development and future
Hi, regarding the settings based on location. ptitjes from SHR is working on an ologicd, which implements reasoning on the phone. He is interested in this cell location based service, as one of the inputs for his ologicd. Onen fredrik normann wrote: Wouln't it be smarter to have a local db on the phone, so after a while the phone will learn where it is all the time and can aply diffrent settings do things according to that? -f- On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Onen onen.om http://onen.om@free.fr http://free.fr wrote: Hi, adding to my last comments... Onen wrote: Ok. If I understand you correctly, you would like some kind of anonymous account, where people could upload if they don't want to create an account? Did I understand you correctly? Well I have nothing against it, it is a good idea to me. But is it good enough regarding legal aspect? Creative commons license makes you have to put the name of contributors (and possibly link them to the data they provided, not sure about this). Is an anonymous account compatible with this? I guess, if people would upload using a same account, this would be one contributor name, and would legally be ok, isn't it? Another point against an open account: imagine somebody starts uploading garbage. Once we notice it. It could be difficult to know what to delete, if a lot of people are using this account. I am not very sure we could reliably rely on IP address to find out what should be deleted. Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: cellhunter --- the state of development and future
Hi, sorry but I am not sure to get your point. At the moment, the clients (possibly stores the logs, for later upload) upload to their respective online dbs. Jan, from the FSO team has built a proof of concept of a service on the phone (see FSO 5.5 beta announcement), which based on the db of raw data from the online site it downloads, builds a local db and propose a cell based location service directly on the phoone. I don't know how (if) an update mechanism is implemented so far. Is this what you have in mind? Onen fredrik normann wrote: And then you can have a sync scripts that syncs to what ever database you like, cellhunter, openBmap -f- On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 3:00 PM, fredrik normann fredrik.normann.j...@gmail.com mailto:fredrik.normann.j...@gmail.com wrote: Wouln't it be smarter to have a local db on the phone, so after a while the phone will learn where it is all the time and can aply diffrent settings do things according to that? -f- On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Onen onen.om http://onen.om@free.fr http://free.fr wrote: Hi, adding to my last comments... Onen wrote: Ok. If I understand you correctly, you would like some kind of anonymous account, where people could upload if they don't want to create an account? Did I understand you correctly? Well I have nothing against it, it is a good idea to me. But is it good enough regarding legal aspect? Creative commons license makes you have to put the name of contributors (and possibly link them to the data they provided, not sure about this). Is an anonymous account compatible with this? I guess, if people would upload using a same account, this would be one contributor name, and would legally be ok, isn't it? Another point against an open account: imagine somebody starts uploading garbage. Once we notice it. It could be difficult to know what to delete, if a lot of people are using this account. I am not very sure we could reliably rely on IP address to find out what should be deleted. Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: cellhunter --- the state of development and future
Understand that things are moving in the same direction :) but I still think a local db of the data you have collected yourself is a good idea :) I am playing with some code my self now, trying to make something. -f- On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 6:48 AM, Onen onen...@free.fr wrote: Hi, regarding the settings based on location. ptitjes from SHR is working on an ologicd, which implements reasoning on the phone. He is interested in this cell location based service, as one of the inputs for his ologicd. Onen fredrik normann wrote: Wouln't it be smarter to have a local db on the phone, so after a while the phone will learn where it is all the time and can aply diffrent settings do things according to that? -f- On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Onen onen.om http://onen.om@free.fr http://free.fr wrote: Hi, adding to my last comments... Onen wrote: Ok. If I understand you correctly, you would like some kind of anonymous account, where people could upload if they don't want to create an account? Did I understand you correctly? Well I have nothing against it, it is a good idea to me. But is it good enough regarding legal aspect? Creative commons license makes you have to put the name of contributors (and possibly link them to the data they provided, not sure about this). Is an anonymous account compatible with this? I guess, if people would upload using a same account, this would be one contributor name, and would legally be ok, isn't it? Another point against an open account: imagine somebody starts uploading garbage. Once we notice it. It could be difficult to know what to delete, if a lot of people are using this account. I am not very sure we could reliably rely on IP address to find out what should be deleted. Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org mailto:community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: cellhunter --- the state of development and future
Wouln't it be smarter to have a local db on the phone, so after a while the phone will learn where it is all the time and can aply diffrent settings do things according to that? -f- On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Onen onen...@free.fr wrote: Hi, adding to my last comments... Onen wrote: Ok. If I understand you correctly, you would like some kind of anonymous account, where people could upload if they don't want to create an account? Did I understand you correctly? Well I have nothing against it, it is a good idea to me. But is it good enough regarding legal aspect? Creative commons license makes you have to put the name of contributors (and possibly link them to the data they provided, not sure about this). Is an anonymous account compatible with this? I guess, if people would upload using a same account, this would be one contributor name, and would legally be ok, isn't it? Another point against an open account: imagine somebody starts uploading garbage. Once we notice it. It could be difficult to know what to delete, if a lot of people are using this account. I am not very sure we could reliably rely on IP address to find out what should be deleted. Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: cellhunter --- the state of development and future
And then you can have a sync scripts that syncs to what ever database you like, cellhunter, openBmap -f- On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 3:00 PM, fredrik normann fredrik.normann.j...@gmail.com wrote: Wouln't it be smarter to have a local db on the phone, so after a while the phone will learn where it is all the time and can aply diffrent settings do things according to that? -f- On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Onen onen...@free.fr wrote: Hi, adding to my last comments... Onen wrote: Ok. If I understand you correctly, you would like some kind of anonymous account, where people could upload if they don't want to create an account? Did I understand you correctly? Well I have nothing against it, it is a good idea to me. But is it good enough regarding legal aspect? Creative commons license makes you have to put the name of contributors (and possibly link them to the data they provided, not sure about this). Is an anonymous account compatible with this? I guess, if people would upload using a same account, this would be one contributor name, and would legally be ok, isn't it? Another point against an open account: imagine somebody starts uploading garbage. Once we notice it. It could be difficult to know what to delete, if a lot of people are using this account. I am not very sure we could reliably rely on IP address to find out what should be deleted. Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: cellhunter --- the state of development and future
fredrik normann wrote: Wouln't it be smarter to have a local db on the phone, so after a while the phone will learn where it is all the time and can aply diffrent settings do things according to that? -f- It seems a smart behaviour but still there is no activity in this direction in the FSO stack. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: cellhunter --- the state of development and future
Hi, adding to my last comments... Onen wrote: Ok. If I understand you correctly, you would like some kind of anonymous account, where people could upload if they don't want to create an account? Did I understand you correctly? Well I have nothing against it, it is a good idea to me. But is it good enough regarding legal aspect? Creative commons license makes you have to put the name of contributors (and possibly link them to the data they provided, not sure about this). Is an anonymous account compatible with this? I guess, if people would upload using a same account, this would be one contributor name, and would legally be ok, isn't it? Another point against an open account: imagine somebody starts uploading garbage. Once we notice it. It could be difficult to know what to delete, if a lot of people are using this account. I am not very sure we could reliably rely on IP address to find out what should be deleted. Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: cellhunter --- the state of development and future
Al Johnson wrote: These are great news. But it is very sorry that now no one claimed that this functionality will be provided. To speak more frankly many people would be glad to hear from the developer of TangoGPS, Marcus Bauer, that he is going to implement this feature. Why should the apps have to support it? The location service need only supply data according to the gypsy protocol to have most existing apps 'just work.' Apps using gpsd will be taken care of by fso-gpsd. It really shouldn't matter to the apps that the data came from something other than a gps unit, be it cell tower, wifi, bluetooth or the magic location pixie. That's even better than I thought. So we should expect activity from the FSO team. Were there any steps towards this(or will be there any in the nearest future)? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: cellhunter --- the state of development and future
[Resend as the ml seems not to like my other email address, but do not inform me about this either...] Hello. On Sun, 2009-04-19 at 15:58, Sebastian Hammerl wrote: So here is the call to all the developers around to create a location service based on the opencellid data. for me that database should be the main db and everyone can provide his data to this db. As long as I don't get an answer from Thomas about his willingness to add informations about cell quality and other data then cell IDs, like wifi APs, into the opencellid db FSO will not go into the opencellid direction at all. Telling people all the time that it is the biggest db and don't answer requests about quality and other data buys you nothing guys. We will think more about this until and at FSOSHRUDCON, but we will not go with opencellid just because they have the most data yet. regards Stefan Schmidt ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: cellhunter --- the state of development and future
why do we need so many databases doing the same? cellhunter has far more cells than openbmap, so why not just bundle the effort and only have one database for getting cells with openmoko? greetings vale i think cellhunter has far more Stefan Schmidt wrote: [Resend as the ml seems not to like my other email address, but do not inform me about this either...] Hello. On Sun, 2009-04-19 at 15:58, Sebastian Hammerl wrote: So here is the call to all the developers around to create a location service based on the opencellid data. for me that database should be the main db and everyone can provide his data to this db. As long as I don't get an answer from Thomas about his willingness to add informations about cell quality and other data then cell IDs, like wifi APs, into the opencellid db FSO will not go into the opencellid direction at all. Telling people all the time that it is the biggest db and don't answer requests about quality and other data buys you nothing guys. We will think more about this until and at FSOSHRUDCON, but we will not go with opencellid just because they have the most data yet. regards Stefan Schmidt ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/cellhunter-the-state-of-development-and-future-tp2657164p2663178.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: cellhunter --- the state of development and future
Hello. On Mon, 2009-04-20 at 05:05, vale wrote: why do we need so many databases doing the same? cellhunter has far more cells than openbmap, so why not just bundle the effort and only have one database for getting cells with openmoko? Seems you did not read my mail. To get the background you should also have a look at the archive to find the previous desicussions about this. I ask for quality and willingness to expand the server side for better results. regards Stefan Schmidt ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: cellhunter --- the state of development and future
yes i read your email, but i think size matters ;) i prefer to get a less acurate position but get a position to beeing somewhere where we have no cells at all. if we have a big database its not that difficult to implement a position query by cell ... with cellhunter i think we have the main roads and cities covered in germany :) best regards vale Stefan Schmidt (via Nabble) schrieb: Hello. On Mon, 2009-04-20 at 05:05, vale wrote: why do we need so many databases doing the same? cellhunter has far more cells than openbmap, so why not just bundle the effort and only have one database for getting cells with openmoko? Seems you did not read my mail. To get the background you should also have a look at the archive to find the previous desicussions about this. I ask for quality and willingness to expand the server side for better results. regards Stefan Schmidt ___ Openmoko community mailing list commun...@... http://n2.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=nodenode=2665694i=0 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community This email is a reply to your post @ http://n2.nabble.com/cellhunter-the-state-of-development-and-future-tp2657164p2665694.html You can reply by email or by visting the link above. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/cellhunter-the-state-of-development-and-future-tp2657164p267.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: cellhunter --- the state of development and future
Hi, ivvmm wrote: I wonder how quick is it developed and how much people are involved in? I am working on a similar project openBmap[1]. A thread has been started by Stefan from FSO about the state of the collaboration between the projects [2][3]. I am for collaboration and even for merge at least of some code or so. To my understanding, so far, cellhunter sees collaboration as sharing the data (Sebastian, please correct me if I am wrong). In the thread you will see that Sebastian will have little time to work on cellhunter until middle May. I let you read his answers in the mailing list archives, to make your mind. OpenBmap is welcoming collaboration. The source code git is available[4]. The work is currently going on there. Nick is taking care of the server side and website. The difference between the projects is that we focus on quality of data. We don't want to get a database full of bad data. Again you will find our arguments in the thread pointed above[5]. I copy paste it here for ease: quote That is the reason behind keeping more details about measures. This allows to gather a lot of data, but with time, we can trash the low quality ones, because we have got high quality ones since. This brings three questions: 1. if you have big HPV-Dops, your position is not very precise. If you add to this that you have a high speed, then when you take your measure, the GPS position is very inaccurate. And the time you get notified that the GSM connection has changed, this adds to inaccuracy. My question is: do people think this argument makes sense? 2. Do OpenCellID or CellHunter think this could be possible to add these extra fields to their database, and measures? This would allow to use inaccurate data, until when we have better ones. Then we could filter the low quality measures. I think we are still all learning a lot, and this would imply that extra fields could be added in the future. So this is probably not only a one shot change. 3. The database should also keep track of the software (id and version) which has logged the data: this allows to ignore/remove data which has been submitted by a buggy software, even if the bug is discovered much later. That is also the idea behind keeping the GSM chip model + Firmware version + GPS chip, etc... end of quote In fact no one in my country is using it(looked at the map on cellhunter's site). By also looking at the map we can see that many regions are already covered. So when the next steps will be taken? I mean integrating the ability to get a fix from a network cell for GPS clients. TangoGPS for example? Or will cellhunter remain just a game? Jan has started some work on this in the framework (see git logs). On my side, I have also started some work on this. Nick and I build sqlite files for every country by operator, and I have started a DBus service which would query the file to give the current GSM based location. Because of lack of time, this goes slowly though. Any help would be very welcomed. [6] Feel free to ask if you have questions. OpenBmap package is located in SHR and FSO repositories (opkg install openbmap-logger), and on opkg.org website. Onen [1] http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenBmap [2] http://projects.linuxtogo.org/pipermail/smartphones-standards/2009-April/000973.html [3] http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/devel/2009-April/005283.html [4] http://myposition.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=myposition [5] http://projects.linuxtogo.org/pipermail/smartphones-standards/2009-April/000975.html [6] http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/devel/2009-April/005290.html ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: cellhunter --- the state of development and future
On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 12:13 PM, Onen onen...@free.fr wrote: Hi, ivvmm wrote: I wonder how quick is it developed and how much people are involved in? This brings three questions: 1. if you have big HPV-Dops, your position is not very precise. If you add to this that you have a high speed, then when you take your measure, the GPS position is very inaccurate. And the time you get notified that the GSM connection has changed, this adds to inaccuracy. My question is: do people think this argument makes sense? I do. joerg also said that TA (time advance?) was a good measure IIRC y ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: cellhunter --- the state of development and future
Yorick Moko wrote: On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 12:13 PM, Onen onen...@free.fr wrote: Hi, ivvmm wrote: I wonder how quick is it developed and how much people are involved in? This brings three questions: 1. if you have big HPV-Dops, your position is not very precise. If you add to this that you have a high speed, then when you take your measure, the GPS position is very inaccurate. And the time you get notified that the GSM connection has changed, this adds to inaccuracy. My question is: do people think this argument makes sense? I do. joerg also said that TA (time advance?) was a good measure IIRC on basis of GPS data you could calculate a running average speed and based on that determine whether to use the measured data or not. y ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: cellhunter --- the state of development and future
Pander wrote: Yorick Moko wrote: On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 12:13 PM, Onen onen...@free.fr wrote: ivvmm wrote: I wonder how quick is it developed and how much people are involved in? This brings three questions: 1. if you have big HPV-Dops, your position is not very precise. If you add to this that you have a high speed, then when you take your measure, the GPS position is very inaccurate. And the time you get notified that the GSM connection has changed, this adds to inaccuracy. My question is: do people think this argument makes sense? I do. joerg also said that TA (time advance?) was a good measure IIRC on basis of GPS data you could calculate a running average speed and based on that determine whether to use the measured data or not. 1. We have a pretty accurate value out of GPS. Why do computation to get a less accurate one? Plus you would have to compute it out of some GPS points. Where logging the GPS speed, you only have to read one value. Imagine analysing a database of millions of points... 2. If I stop at a red light with my car, and a measure is taken there. The GPS will tell speed = 0 (or very close to). If you compute an average, then this high quality measure (you were not moving!) would become a you were going slower. Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: cellhunter --- the state of development and future
Hi, ivvmm schrieb: I wonder how quick is it developed and how much people are involved in? In fact no one in my country is using it(looked at the map on cellhunter's site). By also looking at the map we can see that many regions are already covered. At the moment it is only me involved in the developing of cellhunter. At the end of mai i will finish my master thesis and then i will have some more time for cellhunter and developing will go on. So when the next steps will be taken? I mean integrating the ability to get a fix from a network cell for GPS clients. TangoGPS for example? Or will cellhunter remain just a game? Cellhunter will cooperate with opencellid.org, the largest cell database i know. with the api of opencellid someone can offer a program to get a fix with cells or agps support. perhaps some location service will be added to fso. cellhunter is not just a game, the main goal is to get the database and use the data. because it does not make sense to work only on the own data it will join its database into opencellid.org. with this cooperation there will be a good coverage worldwide and opencellid can provide the data to the enduser. for a coverage of opencellid look at: http://78.47.116.33/~hole/worldcells_opencellid.jpg cellhunter itself offers an api to query the cells known by cellhunter. So here is the call to all the developers around to create a location service based on the opencellid data. for me that database should be the main db and everyone can provide his data to this db. greetings, sebastian ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: cellhunter --- the state of development and future
Onen wrote: Hi, ivvmm wrote: I wonder how quick is it developed and how much people are involved in? I am working on a similar project openBmap[1]. A thread has been started by Stefan from FSO about the state of the collaboration between the projects [2][3]. I am for collaboration and even for merge at least of some code or so. To my understanding, so far, cellhunter sees collaboration as sharing the data (Sebastian, please correct me if I am wrong). In the thread you will see that Sebastian will have little time to work on cellhunter until middle May. I let you read his answers in the mailing list archives, to make your mind. OpenBmap is welcoming collaboration. The source code git is available[4]. The work is currently going on there. Nick is taking care of the server side and website. The difference between the projects is that we focus on quality of data. We don't want to get a database full of bad data. Again you will find our arguments in the thread pointed above[5]. I copy paste it here for ease: quote That is the reason behind keeping more details about measures. This allows to gather a lot of data, but with time, we can trash the low quality ones, because we have got high quality ones since. This brings three questions: 1. if you have big HPV-Dops, your position is not very precise. If you add to this that you have a high speed, then when you take your measure, the GPS position is very inaccurate. And the time you get notified that the GSM connection has changed, this adds to inaccuracy. My question is: do people think this argument makes sense? 2. Do OpenCellID or CellHunter think this could be possible to add these extra fields to their database, and measures? This would allow to use inaccurate data, until when we have better ones. Then we could filter the low quality measures. I think we are still all learning a lot, and this would imply that extra fields could be added in the future. So this is probably not only a one shot change. 3. The database should also keep track of the software (id and version) which has logged the data: this allows to ignore/remove data which has been submitted by a buggy software, even if the bug is discovered much later. That is also the idea behind keeping the GSM chip model + Firmware version + GPS chip, etc... end of quote In fact no one in my country is using it(looked at the map on cellhunter's site). By also looking at the map we can see that many regions are already covered. So when the next steps will be taken? I mean integrating the ability to get a fix from a network cell for GPS clients. TangoGPS for example? Or will cellhunter remain just a game? Jan has started some work on this in the framework (see git logs). On my side, I have also started some work on this. Nick and I build sqlite files for every country by operator, and I have started a DBus service which would query the file to give the current GSM based location. Because of lack of time, this goes slowly though. Any help would be very welcomed. [6] Feel free to ask if you have questions. OpenBmap package is located in SHR and FSO repositories (opkg install openbmap-logger), and on opkg.org website. Onen [1] http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenBmap [2] http://projects.linuxtogo.org/pipermail/smartphones-standards/2009-April/000973.html [3] http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/devel/2009-April/005283.html [4] http://myposition.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=myposition [5] http://projects.linuxtogo.org/pipermail/smartphones-standards/2009-April/000975.html [6] http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/devel/2009-April/005290.html Okay, I see. The both applications: openBmap and Cellhunter have their advantages and disadvantages. I have several questions about openBmap. Cellhunter allows not to have an account and still contribute to the DB(remain anonymous, or to be more specific --- not to connect the data you send with one special nickname, but to hide among many). That's the serious thing which prevents me from using it. Additionally registration could be implemented in the app itself for easiness. The second question is: the cellhunter's developers stated that they will merge their DB with opencellid.org, which is a rather big one. Are you going to do same things? Or are you going to just collect the data for one unique database which is just truly accurate? Why can't the user control the rate in which application collects the data? I am not that sure about this feature as I do not know the internals of the application. But explanation is: if you move on foot you do not need to log data every 30 seconds. If you move on a bicycle you do not need to log data every 10 seconds. If you move on a car you have to collect data every ten seconds or so. Hope you got the point. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org
Re: cellhunter --- the state of development and future
Sebastian Hammerl wrote: Hi, At the moment it is only me involved in the developing of cellhunter. At the end of mai i will finish my master thesis and then i will have some more time for cellhunter and developing will go on. Can't wait for the future versions, or to say more for more features and less bugs! Cellhunter will cooperate with opencellid.org, the largest cell database i know. with the api of opencellid someone can offer a program to get a fix with cells or agps support. perhaps some location service will be added to fso. These are great news. But it is very sorry that now no one claimed that this functionality will be provided. To speak more frankly many people would be glad to hear from the developer of TangoGPS, Marcus Bauer, that he is going to implement this feature. cellhunter is not just a game, the main goal is to get the database and use the data. because it does not make sense to work only on the own data it will join its database into opencellid.org. with this cooperation there will be a good coverage worldwide and opencellid can provide the data to the enduser. for a coverage of opencellid look at: http://78.47.116.33/~hole/worldcells_opencellid.jpg cellhunter itself offers an api to query the cells known by cellhunter. So here is the call to all the developers around to create a location service based on the opencellid data. for me that database should be the main db and everyone can provide his data to this db. greetings, sebastian Thank you very much for your response. Would like to say 'going to hear from you at the end of may'. Cannot query features now as you already stated that you will be busy until that. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: cellhunter --- the state of development and future
On Sunday 19 April 2009, ivvmm wrote: Sebastian Hammerl wrote: Cellhunter will cooperate with opencellid.org, the largest cell database i know. with the api of opencellid someone can offer a program to get a fix with cells or agps support. perhaps some location service will be added to fso. These are great news. But it is very sorry that now no one claimed that this functionality will be provided. To speak more frankly many people would be glad to hear from the developer of TangoGPS, Marcus Bauer, that he is going to implement this feature. Why should the apps have to support it? The location service need only supply data according to the gypsy protocol to have most existing apps 'just work.' Apps using gpsd will be taken care of by fso-gpsd. It really shouldn't matter to the apps that the data came from something other than a gps unit, be it cell tower, wifi, bluetooth or the magic location pixie. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: cellhunter --- the state of development and future
ivvmm wrote: Okay, I see. The both applications: openBmap and Cellhunter have their advantages and disadvantages. Please, feel free to write to me (publicly or privately) with your comments and/or suggestions about openBmap. The ToDo list is growing at the moment with people suggestions, but they do not get forgotten. I have several questions about openBmap. Cellhunter allows not to have an account and still contribute to the DB(remain anonymous, or to be more specific --- not to connect the data you send with one special nickname, but to hide among many). That's the serious thing which prevents me from using it. Additionally registration could be implemented in the app itself for easiness. Ok. If I understand you correctly, you would like some kind of anonymous account, where people could upload if they don't want to create an account? Did I understand you correctly? Well I have nothing against it, it is a good idea to me. But is it good enough regarding legal aspect? Creative commons license makes you have to put the name of contributors (and possibly link them to the data they provided, not sure about this). Is an anonymous account compatible with this? I guess, if people would upload using a same account, this would be one contributor name, and would legally be ok, isn't it? About registration in the app. Why not. I like the idea. Added to ToDo list :-) The second question is: the cellhunter's developers stated that they will merge their DB with opencellid.org, which is a rather big one. Are you going to do same things? Or are you going to just collect the data for one unique database which is just truly accurate? The licenses are compatible between the three projects. So each of them could download and merge the data from the others. To clarify things cellhunter will not merge his database with opencellid. Sebastian will push the updates of his own database to opencellid on a regular basis. That is how I understand it. It means, two similar databases will co-exist, doing similar things. We have been proposing merges of databases and/or client, instead of regular push of data, in order to diminish the similar efforts in parallel. But so far without success. I still hope to see some progresses in this direction. Why can't the user control the rate in which application collects the data? I am not that sure about this feature as I do not know the internals of the application. But explanation is: if you move on foot you do not need to log data every 30 seconds. If you move on a bicycle you do not need to log data every 10 seconds. If you move on a car you have to collect data every ten seconds or so. Hope you got the point. The openBmap logger allows you to do so. There is not graphical interface for this, you have to modify the config file by hand before starting the app. But I got your point. I am mixed between giving more freedom to the user to config the app, and the more complicated interface this would present to him. Some people prefer the app to just log, without changing all kind of parameters... But I add it to the ToDo list and will think about it. Thanks for all your suggestions, please keep going! Onen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
cellhunter --- the state of development and future
I wonder how quick is it developed and how much people are involved in? In fact no one in my country is using it(looked at the map on cellhunter's site). By also looking at the map we can see that many regions are already covered. So when the next steps will be taken? I mean integrating the ability to get a fix from a network cell for GPS clients. TangoGPS for example? Or will cellhunter remain just a game? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
