Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?
On Sunday 04 March 2012 12:51:08 arne anka wrote: (but i would be willing to donate/add a couple of euros if it will help someone to buy a GTA04 who can't afford the full or even the rebated price) myself and others in this list have made the same offer... that's very good to know. i didn't follow the development of sales too close (though close enough to finally convince me, i may want a GTA04, too ;-) - how many are there an how much additional GTA04 could we buy/fund in adavnce between us (if nobody takes up the offer)? - how well known is that to prospective buyers of limited funds? such an offer, however generous it may be, is of little use if potential users are not aware of it - i for one did not know about it, except the remark about 5% rebates still being available since several early subscribers did not claim it. There are a few places you can 'order' a donation, but I don't know how well known they are. http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=GTA04referer=GTA04-Early-Adopter http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Openmoko%3ACommunity ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?
On 03/05/2012 10:36 AM, Al Johnson wrote: There are a few places you can 'order' a donation, but I don't know how well known they are. http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=GTA04referer=GTA04-Early-Adopter http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Openmoko%3ACommunity The problem is that such a blind donations link is to vague and non-transparent. It's not an exciting rallying point for a community. Nikolaus, would there be a way to define a more concrete donation goal, eg., buying a specific batch of parts, that would help goldelico achieve the group order? Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?
Hi Fernando, Am 05.03.2012 um 11:01 schrieb Fernando Martins: On 03/05/2012 10:36 AM, Al Johnson wrote: There are a few places you can 'order' a donation, but I don't know how well known they are. http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=GTA04referer=GTA04-Early-Adopter http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Openmoko%3ACommunity The problem is that such a blind donations link is to vague and non-transparent. It's not an exciting rallying point for a community. Yes this is a problem. These donations help to cover general cost e.g. of running servers, development and have been used to reduce the price a little. But future donations should not change the price of the group tour. But as far as I see the intention is that there are some community members who want to specifically donate. We already have some orders where someone did do a full reservation with open shipment address and there was some private mail discussions of providing more kernel developers with a device. So please specify here what you would do in return, if you would receive such a free unit. Then, the donators (who are following this list) can contact you directly. Nikolaus, would there be a way to define a more concrete donation goal, eg., buying a specific batch of parts, that would help goldelico achieve the group order? Yes, that is a good idea and can be technically done. The problem is that it is difficult to exactly track this. Let's assume someone donates 200 EUR, this would mean that we can reduce the group tour price by 200/350 EUR, i.e. 57 ct. This is quite difficult to calculate and translate into a real refund to everyone. And I think reducing the price for new incoming orders (each donation reduces the 499 EUR by some cents) only would't be fair to those who already have ordered. Although it would be the easiest to implement scheme. Or we buy a handful UMTS modules from the 200 EUR. But who gets those boards? We could also think about reducing by each donation the number of units we need. This would only benefit the distributors and others since get a compensation for lower quantities. Or should we do it that way, that every donated 25 EUR automatically converts a 499 EUR group tour seat into a 474 EUR one, and each 50 EUR donation changes a 499 EUR to a 449 EUR seat? This makes it a lottery if someone is fast enough to get such a new 449 seat. Basically it needs some funds where you (donators) can put in money and you (others) can take it to get a GTA04 effectively at a reduced price. And perhaps a trustee to manage the funds. IMHO the key aspect of a solution is: how do we find a fair scheme that price reductions by donations reach those who really need them (and not some free-riders)? Nikolaus PS: maybe another aspect should also be pointed out: we have a volume rebate in our calculation. I.e. if someone finds 4 others and orders 5 units in combination, there is 5% rebate and for 10 units it is 10% rebate. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?
On Mar 5, 2012 10:33 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com wrote: Hi Fernando, Am 05.03.2012 um 11:01 schrieb Fernando Martins: On 03/05/2012 10:36 AM, Al Johnson wrote: There are a few places you can 'order' a donation, but I don't know how well known they are. http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=GTA04referer=GTA04-E arly-Adopter http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Openmoko%3ACommunity The problem is that such a blind donations link is to vague and non-transparent. It's not an exciting rallying point for a community. Yes this is a problem. These donations help to cover general cost e.g. of running servers, development and have been used to reduce the price a little. But future donations should not change the price of the group tour. But as far as I see the intention is that there are some community members who want to specifically donate. We already have some orders where someone did do a full reservation with open shipment address and there was some private mail discussions of providing more kernel developers with a device. So please specify here what you would do in return, if you would receive such a free unit. Then, the donators (who are following this list) can contact you directly. Nikolaus, would there be a way to define a more concrete donation goal, eg., buying a specific batch of parts, that would help goldelico achieve the group order? Yes, that is a good idea and can be technically done. The problem is that it is difficult to exactly track this. Let's assume someone donates 200 EUR, this would mean that we can reduce the group tour price by 200/350 EUR, i.e. 57 ct. This is quite difficult to calculate and translate into a real refund to everyone. And I think reducing the price for new incoming orders (each donation reduces the 499 EUR by some cents) only would't be fair to those who already have ordered. Although it would be the easiest to implement scheme. I agree that reduction in prices is not the most interesting way to go. Donating mobiles to developers in exchange for specific software improvement looks like a good idea. The suggestion of targeting a specific batch of parts was not meant as a translation into price reductions. The current orders would also contribute their share to the batch. The suggestion was merely done in case there are components that must be ordered in a batch now to achieve important price reductions and other parts that could be bought on a as-needed basis. Fernando ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?
It may not be that complicated, but it is morally wrong. It is morally wrong to help or support someone who is guilty of hoarding the good code and denying it to the public. so proprietary software(calypso source code is not free software) is morally good and free software(osmocombb and nuttx/nuttx-bb is free software) is morally wrong? And note that even if they had part of the source, and that's not enough. you want full source code and usually companies modifying the firmware basebands like openmoko don't have access to that. but osmocom-bb is maybe inefficent righ now(I'm working on fixing that ) but at least you have full source code of layer 1, layer 2, layer 3 you can do calls, sms etc...with it. you have even forks to detect if there are spying equipement connected to the network etc... you can get a real estimation of the RSSI and findout if the levels are too low and calling is dangerous... if you don't like contributing to osmocom-bb maybe you could contribute to fso and make it use osmocom-bb telnet interface for layer23? And about Harald Welte, you forget that he spent a lot of time studying GSM protocols, standards, writing the osmocom-bb code and he released that under a free software license with full source code, isn't that great? but you seem to prefer proprietary source code. Also, note that the non-free source code may be big, who would review it for backdoors? how would you compile it without non-free software? nobody would contribute to it etc... The only usefullness of proprietary source code is as a documentation to produce free source code. Denis. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?
I think there are several options. If you keep the display, you have a nice GUI device for experimentation with WLAN, Bluetooth, USB. And, the SPI/I2C interfaces are accessible on test points near the debug connector. well, i am no hardware guy, but just a humble application programmer. So a dismantled GTA02 is still a nice SoC-Evaluation kit. Could be donated to educational institutions, used in home control, make some funny digital photo frame, make it a wireless NAS server (well, a disk drive on USB1.0 is a little slow). Or you keep the GTA02 as it is and wait until we have the CaseKit finished (which is not very far away). how much would that be? i imagine, CaseKit + display + GTA04 board adds up to about the 750 € for a complete GTA04, wouldn't it? and anyway, i don't think, i would have much use for the GTA02, board or complete, once i got an GTA04. if nobody turns up with a good idea why s/he would need the board -- is it an option for you, Nikolaus, to keep the board once i send in the GTA02 to be made into a GTA04? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?
my idea of a donation was in the first place to get us nearer, my god to thee .. ehm .. nearer the 350 units required. ie in the first place to help people who can't afford the full price, since it would mean the most value for every euro donated. if that proves not feasible, the second best solution would to pay for units not (yet) sold -- and maybe give those away to developers. reducing the group tour price is not an option for me -- and certainly not without all 350 units being sold. and even then i'd donate to fund project infrastructure as proposed, the least effort would be applications for such donations would be brought forth on these lists -- then we could decide, who recieves a donation and how to proceed to make sure, it really is used to order a GTA04. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?
I'm not even going to bother with the good netiquette of not top-posting on this one so sorry if that offends you all. Michael, ... i don't think it makes much sense to dicuss his ... funny ideas further. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?
Am 05.03.2012 um 21:59 schrieb arne anka: I think there are several options. If you keep the display, you have a nice GUI device for experimentation with WLAN, Bluetooth, USB. And, the SPI/I2C interfaces are accessible on test points near the debug connector. well, i am no hardware guy, but just a humble application programmer. So a dismantled GTA02 is still a nice SoC-Evaluation kit. Could be donated to educational institutions, used in home control, make some funny digital photo frame, make it a wireless NAS server (well, a disk drive on USB1.0 is a little slow). Or you keep the GTA02 as it is and wait until we have the CaseKit finished (which is not very far away). how much would that be? i imagine, CaseKit + display + GTA04 board adds up to about the 750 € for a complete GTA04, wouldn't it? We don't know the exact prices yet. and anyway, i don't think, i would have much use for the GTA02, board or complete, once i got an GTA04. if nobody turns up with a good idea why s/he would need the board -- is it an option for you, Nikolaus, to keep the board once i send in the GTA02 to be made into a GTA04? Yes, we already have a bunch of them (I hesitate to make a photo since this looks a little sad). Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?
On 03/03/2012 10:44 PM, arne anka wrote: (but i would be willing to donate/add a couple of euros if it will help someone to buy a GTA04 who can't afford the full or even the rebated price) myself and others in this list have made the same offer... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?
msoko...@ivan.harhan.org (Michael Sokolov) writes: close in terms of hackability. Unfortunately the greedy bastards are refusing to share, hence extracting the ware from them requires the use of a soldering iron, inserted rectally. If anyone is willing to I'm sorry, but that is an intolerable thing to write. I hope you will take it back and apologise for it. Neil ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?
(but i would be willing to donate/add a couple of euros if it will help someone to buy a GTA04 who can't afford the full or even the rebated price) myself and others in this list have made the same offer... that's very good to know. i didn't follow the development of sales too close (though close enough to finally convince me, i may want a GTA04, too ;-) - how many are there an how much additional GTA04 could we buy/fund in adavnce between us (if nobody takes up the offer)? - how well known is that to prospective buyers of limited funds? such an offer, however generous it may be, is of little use if potential users are not aware of it - i for one did not know about it, except the remark about 5% rebates still being available since several early subscribers did not claim it. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?
Hi Arne, Am 03.03.2012 um 22:44 schrieb arne anka: what's stopping me from subscribing for the GTA04 is simply the question, what to do with the innards of my disembowled GTA02. although the GTA02 as well as a new GTA04 would be litle more than a toy anyway, i shrink back from the idea to produce electronic waste just for fun. money isn't really an issue here, but i don't want to spend 750 euros for a complete new GTA04 i don't really have a practical use for. (but i would be willing to donate/add a couple of euros if it will help someone to buy a GTA04 who can't afford the full or even the rebated price) so, what do you group tour subscribers plan to do with the replaced parts? just sink them in the waste basket? hang on the wall? or do you have a meaningful solution? I think there are several options. If you keep the display, you have a nice GUI device for experimentation with WLAN, Bluetooth, USB. And, the SPI/I2C interfaces are accessible on test points near the debug connector. So a dismantled GTA02 is still a nice SoC-Evaluation kit. Could be donated to educational institutions, used in home control, make some funny digital photo frame, make it a wireless NAS server (well, a disk drive on USB1.0 is a little slow). Or you keep the GTA02 as it is and wait until we have the CaseKit finished (which is not very far away). Therefore it is important to spread of the platform. Having 1 month left over for subscribing to the (extended) group tour is a good point to draw an intermediate view. This morning we now have 34% which is one third of the required number of units (for the given price). This is a good increment from the 23% or so we did have right before FOSDEM when we decided to extend the subscription time frame. So the next goal is to crack the 40%! One more thing: some 5% rebate seats are still available since some generous subscribers did choose no early bird rebate. BR, Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- -- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?
Am 04.03.2012 um 00:59 schrieb Michael Sokolov: arne anka openm...@ginguppin.de wrote: but if nikolaus is ok with that (re-stocking the used GTA02 boards, that is :-), that's certainly solution. As I understand it, he already does that. Yes, we have some GTA02 boards w/o display... - what's so hackable about the calypso fw? as far as i recall, it was a major afford to get an updated fw and make it flashable. Certain individuals in the Om community are holding personal copies of that firmware in semi-source form, or more precisely, in the form of object modules with full symbolic information (names of functions, global variables, etc) - not quite the same as full source, but pretty close in terms of hackability. Unfortunately the greedy bastards are refusing to share, hence extracting the ware from them requires the use of a soldering iron, inserted rectally. If anyone is willing to Could it be possible that those greedy bastards don't even exist except in your wishful thinking? perform such an operation for the benefit of the community, I can supply the names of the suspects and my best available information as to their physical whereabouts. Alternatively, there exists the TSM30 firmware source: it's a different Calypso phone, and that code is full source and readily available from Cryptome.org and other sites. Unfortunately the TSM30 hardware has been very heavily modified from the Leonardo* baseline (whereas the GSM part of GTA02 is almost identical with Leonardo), hence backporting the TSM30 source to run on a Leonardo-style Calypso subsystem like GTA02 would take a lot more work than what we could do if we had the real GTA02 version of the semi-source. But the backport of the TSM30 to Leonardo/GTA02 does not seem impossible, just really difficult, and I am hoping to find the time some day to tackle that project - in my view, it is an ethically superior approach than OsmocomBB. [*] Leonardo is TI's reference design for the Calypso/Iota/Rita chipset; liberated Leonardo board schematics and chip docs for all components are on my public FTP site. There is also a possibility that someone in the People's Republic of China may have a copy of the same semi-source deliverable which FIC got from TI (that exact same deliverable or a very very similar one must have been given to *all* makers of Calypso-based feature phones), but who would be more open to sharing than the Om bastards. Any comrades in the PRC reading this, you know whom to email. and how much less hackable is the new gsm chip's fw? We shall only know if Nikolaus were to grow the b*lls to burn or shred his German passport, apply for citizenship in the Principality of Sealand, the Republic of New Poseidia or some other (micro)nation in which NDAs have no legal validity and in which all intellectual creations of every kind are automatically and unconditionally in the public domain, and publicly share all materials which he has received from the maker of whatever GSM/UMTS module he has used in the GTA04. If and when Nikolaus does the above, I shall gladly and immediately buy a GTA04 - but not till then. This sounds like shooting yourself in the foot. As soon as I would do that, I can't sell you a GT04 any more because I don't receive any more of these modules. So it is not a realistic option. And you would be astonished how tiny information we really have. Almost everything we know has been transcribed into valuable information and is included in the user's manual. This are AT commands and the pin layout. By going to the official product page you can also find out that there is a QC MDM6600 inside (same as iPhone 4). But that does not mean that we have received any information about that chip or its firmware... We are at least on the output of the third level information filter from QC to us. It is in this respect like buying a UMTS-USB stick in a blister pack where you don't get a service manual included. Finally you will find by research that there are some projects to write alternate firmware for MDM6600 devices. But that is all, that I know that those projects exist (I think one was mentioned recently on the GTA04 list [1]). Nikolaus [1]: http://lists.goldelico.com/pipermail/gta04-owner/2011-December/001071.html ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Gta04-owner] what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?
Am 04.03.2012 um 14:55 schrieb Benjamin Deering: My gta02 innards will probably be reassigned to monitoring my kegerator. Since it has i2c and wifi, I should be able to connect load sensors, a thermometer, and a sensor to know when the compressor is running. It could then send the information over wifi to www.jeepingben.net so I can monitor energy efficiency, beer levels, and beer temperature from anywhere. ++ :) On 03/04/2012 07:59 AM, Bob Ham wrote: On Sat, 2012-03-03 at 22:44 +0100, arne anka wrote: so, what do you group tour subscribers plan to do with the replaced parts? just sink them in the waste basket? hang on the wall? or do you have a meaningful solution? My intention is to use the remaining phone innards to experiment with and help develop, a 3D printable case. ___ Gta04-owner mailing list gta04-ow...@goldelico.com http://lists.goldelico.com/mailman/listinfo/gta04-owner ___ Gta04-owner mailing list gta04-ow...@goldelico.com http://lists.goldelico.com/mailman/listinfo/gta04-owner Nikolaus (PS: forwarded to the OM community discussion list because of potentially broader interest)___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?
Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com wrote: Could it be possible that those greedy bastards don't even exist except in your wishful thinking? I don't buy that - I don't buy the fairy-tale that each and every former employee of Om-Inc who had NDA'd access to The Treasure has refrained from sneaking a personal copy home with him. That is a preposterous claim. There most certainly do exist former Om-Inc employees who are sitting on personal copies of the deliverable which that company had received from TI. I know of at least two former Om-Inc employees who have demonstrated detailed knowledge of what that deliverable contained - I take that as evidence that they are the ones most likely to be holding on to personal copies. Not 100% proof, but enough evidence to hire some professionals to do a kidnapping operation as soon as I can gather up the funds to do that. And if the people whom I suspect to be holding personal copies of the TI-Om deliverables have deleted those personal copies, well, too bad for them, as the hot soldering iron won't get taken out of their rectums until a copy of the ware is in my hands. So, to those reading this who are holding those personal copies: just upload a copy anonymously to some warez site, announce it on this list using an untraceable anonymous email account, and then you will no longer need to worry about getting kidnapped and receiving thermorectal treatment. This sounds like shooting yourself in the foot. As soon as I would do that, I can't sell you a GT04 any more because I don't receive any more of these modules. So it is not a realistic option. The obvious solution is to use two separate unconnected identities for the NDA-signing and NDA-breaking activities. MS ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?
Am 04.03.2012 um 21:14 schrieb Michael Sokolov: Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com wrote: Could it be possible that those greedy bastards don't even exist except in your wishful thinking? I don't buy that - I don't buy the fairy-tale that each and every former employee of Om-Inc who had NDA'd access to The Treasure has refrained from sneaking a personal copy home with him. That is a preposterous claim. There most certainly do exist former Om-Inc employees who are sitting on personal copies of the deliverable which that company had received from TI. I know of at least two former Om-Inc employees who have demonstrated detailed knowledge of what that deliverable contained - I take that as evidence that they are the ones most likely to be holding on to personal copies. Not 100% proof, but enough evidence to hire some professionals to do a kidnapping operation as soon as I can gather up the funds to do that. And if the people whom I suspect to be holding personal copies of the TI-Om deliverables have deleted those personal copies, well, too bad for them, as the hot soldering iron won't get taken out of their rectums until a copy of the ware is in my hands. So, to those reading this who are holding those personal copies: just upload a copy anonymously to some warez site, announce it on this list using an untraceable anonymous email account, and then you will no longer need to worry about getting kidnapped and receiving thermorectal treatment. Hm. In our legislation this is considered a crime Erpressung (extortion). And for good reasons. This sounds like shooting yourself in the foot. As soon as I would do that, I can't sell you a GT04 any more because I don't receive any more of these modules. So it is not a realistic option. The obvious solution is to use two separate unconnected identities for the NDA-signing and NDA-breaking activities. No, that is not a solution. That is also a crime Betrug (fraud)... And you honestly ask to commit crimes in the name of Free and Open Source? IMHO that has nothing to do with freedom at all. Just personal enrichment. And does *not* bring forward the community. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?
Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com wrote: IMHO that has nothing to do with freedom at all. Just personal enrichment. Objection: it is *NOT* personal enrichment if I share. If I were to ever get a hold of the ware that I am after, I would NOT greedily hoard it for myself like its current holders are doing, I would make it available to everyone who wants it. And does *not* bring forward the community. Depends on which community you are talking about. If *your* community has chosen to cripple itself by limiting to just those means which don't offend the repressive legislative regimes, then indeed your community won't benefit from IFS (Illegal Free Software) work. However, my work on building a Totally Illegal Phone (whether I do it by kidnapping an ex-Om-Inc employee and beating the TI deliverable out of him, by taking the publicly leaked TSM30 source and modifying it in a copyright-disregarding manner to backport it to Leonardo/GTA02, or by taking OsmocomBB and adding illegal enhancements to it) will most certainly benefit a DIFFERENT community: a community of brave and determined revolutionaries who are officially At War with all law-making regimes and who would like to use the enemy's Public Land Mobile Networks infrastructure in our asymmetric warfare against them. MS ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?
- what's so hackable about the calypso fw? as far as i recall, it was a major afford to get an updated fw and make it flashable. and how much less hackable is the new gsm chip's fw? Well, you can run osmocom-bb or nuttx on it. for instance with nuttx: root@om-gta02:~# /etc/init.d/dbus-1 stop Stopping system message bus: dbus. root@om-gta02:~# /etc/init.d/xserver-nodm stop Stopping XServer root@om-gta02:~# osmocon -i 13 -m romload -p /dev/ttySAC0 nuttx.bin [...] open a new shell and type: echo 0 /sys/bus/platform/devices/gta02-pm-gsm.0/power_on echo 1 /sys/bus/platform/devices/gta02-pm-gsm.0/power_on Then on the first shell you see: Preparing block 63, block checksum is 0xec handle_write_block(): 1024 bytes (1024/1024) handle_write_block(): Block 63 finished Received block ack from phone Preparing the last block, filling 616 bytes, block checksum is 0x75 handle_write_block(): 1024 bytes (1024/1024) handle_write_block(): Block 64 finished Finished, sent 64 blocks in total Received block ack from phone Sending checksum: 0x42 Checksum on phone side matches, let's branch to your code Branching to 0x0082 Received branch ack, your code is running now! NuttShell (NSH) then with a python script you can interact with the shell: root@om-gta02:~# ./loadwriter.py help which produces: nsh help NSH command forms: [nice [-d niceness]] cmd [ file| file] [] OR if cmd then [sequence of cmd] else [sequence of cmd] fi Where cmd is one of: [ expression ] ? cat path [path [path ...]] cp source-path dest-path dd if=infile of=outfile [bs=sectsize] [count=sectors] [skip=sectors] echo [string [string...]] exec hex-address exit free help kill -signal pid losetup [-d dev-path] | [[-o offset] [-r] dev-path file-path] ls [-lRs] dir-path mb hex-address[=hex-value][ hex-byte-count] mkfifo path mh hex-address[=hex-value][ hex-byte-count] mw hex-address[=hex-value][ hex-byte-count] ps sh script-path sleep sec test expression usleep usec xd hex-address byte-count Builtin Apps: Alternatively you can run a loader, a hello world, a rss firmware, a layer1(with layer23 running on the samsung SOC) firmware etc Denis. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?
However, my work on building a Totally Illegal Phone That points nowhere. I think you should instead try to go the legal way, so you can't be attacked in court, because it's way too easy to attack you if you do something illegal. Theses companies have a lot of lawyers and spend a lot on it. The way to go is to improve nuttx port on calypso phones. it's not that complicated. Now it runs on the calypso of the freerunner(and on other phones too). so please instead of attacking the openmoko people which points nowhere( they won't give you the source, they could have given it to you already if they wished but they didn't. so I guess they don't want to and will never give you theses sources), do something productive and join us in making osmocom-bb usable(by improving the nuttx port on calypso and then porting osmocom-bb on top of it). so instead of waisting time on useless things, please join us. Denis. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?
Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli gnu...@no-log.org wrote: That points nowhere. For you maybe, but not for me. I think you should instead try to go the legal way, I disagree. Man-made law of every kind is my arch-enemy, and the purpose of my life is to break those laws. Without law-breaking life becomes devoid of meaning. so you can't be attacked in court, That is irrelevant to me: I can never be attacked in court because I WILL NEVER SHOW UP TO COURT. because it's way too easy to attack you if you do something illegal. No, it isn't easy. Theses companies have a lot of lawyers and spend a lot on it. So what are they going to do? Send me threats? How? By email? I'll laugh at them, then hit delete. By postal mail to my PO box? There's a paper recycle bin conveniently located right next to it. Look up one of the addresses I've used for receiving shipments, addresses that look like real physical ones? Well, they only *look* like real physical addresses - in reality they are mailbox services. So GOOD LUCK on trying to force me to show up in court... The way to go is to improve nuttx port on calypso phones. it's not that complicated. It may not be that complicated, but it is morally wrong. It is morally wrong to help or support someone who is guilty of hoarding the good code and denying it to the public. Harald Welte is the leader of the entire Osmocom family of projects. He is a former employee of Om-Inc and I have every reason to suspect that he is hoarding a personal copy of the good code, although he'll obviously never admit to it. That makes Osmocom morally tainted, i.e., it is morally wrong to contribute in any way to any of the projects under that umbrella, particularly OsmocomBB. Just to be clear, there is nothing wrong with merely *using* what those projects have already produced: Leninist philosophy states that any and all means are acceptable, so we can use whatever tool or resource does the job. But it *is* wrong to help them with contributions. Therefore, if I ever feel like making enhancements to the OsmocomBB code base, I'll be sure to make them non-GPL-compatible so that my work benefits only the illegal community and not the legal one. so please instead of attacking the openmoko people which points nowhere( they won't give you the source, they could have given it to you already if they wished but they didn't. so I guess they don't want to and will never give you theses sources), I can still kidnap one of them and do the thermorectal procedure. And the prospect of going to prison for kidnapping/assault/battery/ whatever they call it doesn't scare me one bit - I am very confident of my ability to upload the seized code to some warez site *before* the cops arrive and get me. Then I could spend the rest of my life in prison or perhaps die in a gunfire exchange with the police while resisting arrest, but the deed will be done: the code will be FREE - once it hits a public warez site, it'll get copied by all the other warez sites and the copyright/NDA police will never be able to take all of those copies down. do something productive and join us in making osmocom-bb usable(by improving the nuttx port on calypso and then porting osmocom-bb on top of it). so instead of waisting time on useless things, please join us. NO, NEVER. If I have NO other option, I would rather take a gun, shoot one of those bastards who are denying me the good code, then shoot myself before the cops arrive. I will be dead, but my tormentor will be dead too, so that makes it a fair exchange, a life for a life. MS ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?
I'm not even going to bother with the good netiquette of not top-posting on this one so sorry if that offends you all. Michael, Whether you realize it or not you're giving open culture and this community specifically a 'black eye' by posting such inflammatory rhetoric. I, and probably most others on the list appreciate the hard work that went into the Neo 1973, Neo FreeRunner, and the latest iteration from Golden Delicious, the GTA04. I think you do as well, but you have a funny way of showing it. In a perfect world we would already have open standards that would allow for the devices we envision. We don't live in a perfect world. There are rules that need to be followed if we hope to change the devices we're growing ever more accustomed to, and you're not helping the process. In point of fact public posts like yours will be used as ammunition against what most of us on the list are working towards. I share your sense of frustration in regards to hardware specs not being more open but I won't resort to threats like you do. Instead I'll keep trying to educate people about the dangers involved in walled gardens and closed systems. At least that's a positive endeavour to engage in and it's likely to eventually take hold once we have saner patent laws. I think it's shameful for the open culture community on the whole to have it's reputation sullied by your threatening comments. I can't tell if you're a troll, an agent provocateur, or just a misguided soul who really does mean what he says. In any case welcome to my 'plonk' file pal as this will be the only response you'll ever get from me. Hal On Sun, 4 Mar 2012 23:07:32 GMT msoko...@ivan.harhan.org (Michael Sokolov) wrote: Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli gnu...@no-log.org wrote: That points nowhere. For you maybe, but not for me. I think you should instead try to go the legal way, I disagree. Man-made law of every kind is my arch-enemy, and the purpose of my life is to break those laws. Without law-breaking life becomes devoid of meaning. so you can't be attacked in court, That is irrelevant to me: I can never be attacked in court because I WILL NEVER SHOW UP TO COURT. because it's way too easy to attack you if you do something illegal. No, it isn't easy. Theses companies have a lot of lawyers and spend a lot on it. So what are they going to do? Send me threats? How? By email? I'll laugh at them, then hit delete. By postal mail to my PO box? There's a paper recycle bin conveniently located right next to it. Look up one of the addresses I've used for receiving shipments, addresses that look like real physical ones? Well, they only *look* like real physical addresses - in reality they are mailbox services. So GOOD LUCK on trying to force me to show up in court... The way to go is to improve nuttx port on calypso phones. it's not that complicated. It may not be that complicated, but it is morally wrong. It is morally wrong to help or support someone who is guilty of hoarding the good code and denying it to the public. Harald Welte is the leader of the entire Osmocom family of projects. He is a former employee of Om-Inc and I have every reason to suspect that he is hoarding a personal copy of the good code, although he'll obviously never admit to it. That makes Osmocom morally tainted, i.e., it is morally wrong to contribute in any way to any of the projects under that umbrella, particularly OsmocomBB. Just to be clear, there is nothing wrong with merely *using* what those projects have already produced: Leninist philosophy states that any and all means are acceptable, so we can use whatever tool or resource does the job. But it *is* wrong to help them with contributions. Therefore, if I ever feel like making enhancements to the OsmocomBB code base, I'll be sure to make them non-GPL-compatible so that my work benefits only the illegal community and not the legal one. so please instead of attacking the openmoko people which points nowhere( they won't give you the source, they could have given it to you already if they wished but they didn't. so I guess they don't want to and will never give you theses sources), I can still kidnap one of them and do the thermorectal procedure. And the prospect of going to prison for kidnapping/assault/battery/ whatever they call it doesn't scare me one bit - I am very confident of my ability to upload the seized code to some warez site *before* the cops arrive and get me. Then I could spend the rest of my life in prison or perhaps die in a gunfire exchange with the police while resisting arrest, but the deed will be done: the code will be FREE - once it hits a public warez site, it'll get copied by all the other warez sites and the copyright/NDA police will never be able to take all of those copies down. do something productive and join us in making osmocom-bb usable(by
what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?
what's stopping me from subscribing for the GTA04 is simply the question, what to do with the innards of my disembowled GTA02. although the GTA02 as well as a new GTA04 would be litle more than a toy anyway, i shrink back from the idea to produce electronic waste just for fun. money isn't really an issue here, but i don't want to spend 750 euros for a complete new GTA04 i don't really have a practical use for. (but i would be willing to donate/add a couple of euros if it will help someone to buy a GTA04 who can't afford the full or even the rebated price) so, what do you group tour subscribers plan to do with the replaced parts? just sink them in the waste basket? hang on the wall? or do you have a meaningful solution? Therefore it is important to spread of the platform. Having 1 month left over for subscribing to the (extended) group tour is a good point to draw an intermediate view. This morning we now have 34% which is one third of the required number of units (for the given price). This is a good increment from the 23% or so we did have right before FOSDEM when we decided to extend the subscription time frame. So the next goal is to crack the 40%! One more thing: some 5% rebate seats are still available since some generous subscribers did choose no early bird rebate. BR, Nikolaus ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- -- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?
arne anka openm...@ginguppin.de wrote: so, what do you group tour subscribers plan to do with the replaced parts? just sink them in the waste basket? hang on the wall? or do you have a meaningful solution? Please please please don't waste them, please make them available to people like me who like GTA02 BETTER than GTA04 (for Calypso GSM firmware hacking reasons). One way to do that would be to ship the GTA02 PCBA back to Goldelico who will then save these parts for resale to the interested people. MS ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?
well, that's certainly an idea that didn'zt occur to me. but wouldn't support those reactionaries somehow defy the purpose of the GTA04 movement? ;-) otoh, if there's sufficient demand it could offer another source of funding. but if nikolaus is ok with that (re-stocking the used GTA02 boards, that is :-), that's certainly solution. two questions though: - what's so hackable about the calypso fw? as far as i recall, it was a major afford to get an updated fw and make it flashable. and how much less hackable is the new gsm chip's fw? - nikolaus: what about future fw updates for those closed parts like the gsm chip? not just new features but simple bug fixes? arne anka openm...@ginguppin.de wrote: so, what do you group tour subscribers plan to do with the replaced parts? just sink them in the waste basket? hang on the wall? or do you have a meaningful solution? Please please please don't waste them, please make them available to people like me who like GTA02 BETTER than GTA04 (for Calypso GSM firmware hacking reasons). One way to do that would be to ship the GTA02 PCBA back to Goldelico who will then save these parts for resale to the interested people. MS ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- -- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: what to with 02 when upgrading to 04? was: Re: How to bring forward the community?
arne anka openm...@ginguppin.de wrote: but if nikolaus is ok with that (re-stocking the used GTA02 boards, that is :-), that's certainly solution. As I understand it, he already does that. - what's so hackable about the calypso fw? as far as i recall, it was a major afford to get an updated fw and make it flashable. Certain individuals in the Om community are holding personal copies of that firmware in semi-source form, or more precisely, in the form of object modules with full symbolic information (names of functions, global variables, etc) - not quite the same as full source, but pretty close in terms of hackability. Unfortunately the greedy bastards are refusing to share, hence extracting the ware from them requires the use of a soldering iron, inserted rectally. If anyone is willing to perform such an operation for the benefit of the community, I can supply the names of the suspects and my best available information as to their physical whereabouts. Alternatively, there exists the TSM30 firmware source: it's a different Calypso phone, and that code is full source and readily available from Cryptome.org and other sites. Unfortunately the TSM30 hardware has been very heavily modified from the Leonardo* baseline (whereas the GSM part of GTA02 is almost identical with Leonardo), hence backporting the TSM30 source to run on a Leonardo-style Calypso subsystem like GTA02 would take a lot more work than what we could do if we had the real GTA02 version of the semi-source. But the backport of the TSM30 to Leonardo/GTA02 does not seem impossible, just really difficult, and I am hoping to find the time some day to tackle that project - in my view, it is an ethically superior approach than OsmocomBB. [*] Leonardo is TI's reference design for the Calypso/Iota/Rita chipset; liberated Leonardo board schematics and chip docs for all components are on my public FTP site. There is also a possibility that someone in the People's Republic of China may have a copy of the same semi-source deliverable which FIC got from TI (that exact same deliverable or a very very similar one must have been given to *all* makers of Calypso-based feature phones), but who would be more open to sharing than the Om bastards. Any comrades in the PRC reading this, you know whom to email. and how much less hackable is the new gsm chip's fw? We shall only know if Nikolaus were to grow the b*lls to burn or shred his German passport, apply for citizenship in the Principality of Sealand, the Republic of New Poseidia or some other (micro)nation in which NDAs have no legal validity and in which all intellectual creations of every kind are automatically and unconditionally in the public domain, and publicly share all materials which he has received from the maker of whatever GSM/UMTS module he has used in the GTA04. If and when Nikolaus does the above, I shall gladly and immediately buy a GTA04 - but not till then. MS ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
