Re: [Debconf-team] [Debconf13-localteam] Updates from Le Camp meeting
Hi Michele Cane michele.c...@gmail.com writes: Hi On Tue, 2012-08-14 at 23:35 +0200, Gaudenz Steinlin wrote: Hi For debconf-team readers, please see the start of the thread at: http://lists.debconf.org/lurker/message/20120814.194536.48d8e25a.en.html debconf13-localteam members: Please crosspost everything which is not strictly only localteam related to debconf-team for now. At debconf in nicaragua we basically agreed to merge the localteam and globalteam lists into just one list. But this has not happened yet. Didier 'OdyX' Raboud o...@debian.org writes: Le mardi, 14 août 2012 21.45:36, Michele Cane a écrit : Hi all, today I had, along with other members of localteam, a meeting with Le Camp director Mr. Pianaro. I can personally say that I am satisfied for how the meting went and I think this feeling is shared by the other participants. You can find the most important point of the meeting on the wiki http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf13/Meetings/minutes-20120814 Thanks and congrats. That's great ! Just some quick math questions as I've been trying to fill a spreadsheet with prospective beds usage numbers: * How many nights will we actually have ? The wiki page says 13 but there are 12 nights between monday 5. and sunday 18. While it would be nice for some organizers to stay for the sunday 18. night, I'm not sure it would be possible. At the meeting today we talked about 13 days. But I'm not sure if this is still negotiatable as we did not really talk about the dates. We should probably do that soon as I think that Saturday to Saturday would be best (this would mean 3. to 17. august). This year quite some people left one day early because they wanted to be home on Sunday to restart work on Monday. At the meeting we talked about 14 days and 13 nights. Oh I see, my bad. So my proposal would be 4.8.2013 (Sunday) to 17.8.2013 (Saturday). This is one day earlier than what we talked about before. Don't know if this change is still possible. * From the wiki page: For 4880 CHF per night (13 night, 58240 CHF) we can have 2600 beds (an average of 200 beds per day) over the whole conf duration. = The numbers don't match: 13 nights at 4880 CHF is 63440 CHF. 2600 beds suggests 13 days indeed but we have 12 nights. The trick is that we'd need 13 days but 12 nights I guess. The 4880 for 200 beds information in the wiki is wrong. The point where the minimal price and the price per bed are equal is at 243 beds. This is probably a misunderstanding because Mr. Pianaro did made some confusing example which I only understood after recalculation everything myself. One example had 200 persons and was intended to show that we have to pay the minimal amount of 4880 in this case and the other included 300 persons and showed that the price per bed appies in that case. But the minimal amount only comes into effect if we don't reach more than 243 persons on average. Which equals to 3156 guest-nights. I am sure that for 4880 CHF we have 200 x 13 = 2600 beds and both of the point it will be confirmed by the contract proposal. I guess you mean for 4880*13 = 63440 CHF we get 200 beds * 13 = 2600 guest-nights. Sure that's true. But for the same price we even get 243*13=3156 guest-nights. This is because 2600*20.10 = 52260 is lower than the minimal price of 63440. At 3156 guest-nights the prices are equal. Best, Gaudenz -- Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better. ~ Samuel Beckett ~ ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] [Debconf13-localteam] Updates from Le Camp meeting
Hello, IF a trip/excursion is wanted, as was mentionned before, public transportation can be used e.g. to Neuchâtel (slow) or Yverdon (slightly faster). Note that the Swiss Railway System has group tickets, so we might get a discount on the normal price if we travel together. However, this may prove impractical when returning late, unless using the Noctambus (e.g. departs 02h15 and 04h00 from Neuchâtel to Vaumarcus) http://www.noctambus-ne.ch/index.php?page=horaire at 7 CHF per person (5.90 if 6 people). Runs friday and saturday night. Another possibility would be to use Le Camp's 12 seat bus, or possibly other buses, driven by us (D permit required). Or we could ask a transporter: 100+ places buses are not that expensive per seat. I suggest we collect excursion ideas for later, and then propose something. Cultural: visit the castle[1], if it is still possible. Nature: walking is free, and from Le Camp you can go to many places (bath at the lake -- usually adequate temperature in August -- or take the boat for a lake excursion [2]; climb up the mountains to the Creux-du-Van natural preservation site [3], about 4 to 5 hours return depending on your condition. Socializing/partying: Neuchâtel La Case-à-Chocs (alternative) http://www.case-a-chocs.ch/ La Chaux-de-Fonds Bikini Test (alternative) Neuchâtel Bar King (mainstream, also boat partying) Bigger parties would be in Lausanne, Berne, Geneva or Zürich ($$) [1] https://plus.google.com/109162155267014464339/about?gl=UShl=fr [2] http://www.navig.ch/navigation.php?id=11page=horaire_pdflang=en e.g. departure 9:45 from Vaumarcus, return at 11:50, itinerary does the west of the lake. You can also continue to Neuchâtel, doing the whole lake, arriving at 13:45, and either come back with the train or the boat at 15:55 in Vaumarcus. There are some 20 CHF daily tickets. You can either eat on board ($$$) or get a lunch take-away meal prepared by Le Camp at a discount price from the normal menu. There is free WiFi on board. Not every day. Might change in 2013. [3] http://www.tourisma.ch/tourisma/Suisse/Neuchatel/CreuxduVan/balade-randonnees-bouquetin-Creux-du-Van.php Return on the same path, or through Noiraigue (Areuse River Canyon, beautiful gorges de l'Areuse and then back by train-bus from Colombier). http://www.balades-en-famille.ch/resultat.php?balade=19 Ah, and we also mentionned yesterday special transportation needs: http://www.thvd.ch/ http://www.helptel.info/Handicap.aspx http://www.taxicab.ch/fr/taxihandicap.php http://www.benevolat-ne.ch/ (benevolent transport, and other proposals) signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Debconf13-localteam mailing list debconf13-localt...@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf13-localteam___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] [Debconf13-localteam] Updates from Le Camp meeting
On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 11:35:34PM +0200, Gaudenz Steinlin wrote: ... be best (this would mean 3. to 17. august). This year quite some people left one day early because they wanted to be home on Sunday to restart work on Monday. Could this be because a lot of people had to take a transanlatic (or transpacific) flight and the only way of being back at work in Monday was leaving in Saturday? I checked quickly DC11 room accomodation, that I expect being more similar to DC13 that DC12, and most of the people left in Sunday (remember we had 2 full buses rented in early Sunday). Most of the people leaving in Saturday where people from non European countries. Ana ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] And regarding the Penta replacement
Hi Mario, thanks for joining the conversation! On Mittwoch, 15. August 2012, Mario Manno wrote: I'm maintaining the katastrophie frab fork. We used that one for the SIGINT12 conference and I'm currently working towards a CCC-wide frab installation. cool. Do you think/know whether this years cccongress will already use frab? [forks] I hope we can find some common grounds during the developer meeting at the FroScon. It would be great to add a plugin system for example. Oh yeah. Do you know happy David, the original author, is with your fork? Do you (both) have plans to merge that (soon)? Cause we're just starting with frab and atm its at least unclear to me, which fork we should take and I'd prefer to not fork at all. Regarding froscon: will the frab developer meeting happen on saturday or sunday (or both)? Since I'm maintaining media.ccc.de I' really interested in your video related features. Linking and embedding video recordings in the schedule would be great. It is :) I'll be happy to show our workflow+tools to you. At least for my branch I'd expect the penta import feature to be broken. Once the new hardware is running I'm going to fix this. ok, we basically decided to go without importing old data - mostly because we believe we did too many changes to the schema and thus we believe it wont work well anyway. https://github.com/katastrophie/frab/issues Is there a mailinglist as well? cheers, Holger ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] [Debconf13-localteam] split debcamp?
Hi there! On Wed, 15 Aug 2012 17:01:20 +0200, Axel Beckert wrote: On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 03:08:51PM +0100, Nattie Mayer-Hutchings wrote: On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 01:37:45PM +, Daniel Pocock wrote: But the issue of attendance during the DebCamp week has very real financial implications - you don't think it is worth looking at options to mitigate such risks? As much as your willingness to be helpful is appreciated, there has recently been a very productive and positive meeting with the management of LeCamp, I understood it such that his suggestions (and fears) are exactly based on the outcome of that meeting. Especially the minimum average of 200 beds is something which came up after that meeting. (c.f. http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf13/Meetings/minutes-20120814#Conclusions, first item) That is not true: the fact that there was a minimum amount of money to have the *whole* venue for ourselves was known since the very first meeting we had with 'Le Camp'. By chance, this happened to coincide with the average number of attendees I used to calculate the initial rough budget (notes 1 and 3): http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf13/Switzerland/Bid#Rough_budget_calculations Thx, bye, Gismo / Luca pgpIGMS4NbRt9.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] [Debconf13-localteam] split debcamp?
c) after DebConf: will bandwidth still be available for another 1-2 weeks? Will there be billing issues? I don't think Le Camp will be available after DebConf. And I think we should only think about DebCamp parallel events. Topping up numbers for the DebCamp week is the highest priority However, bringing people for an extra week, post-DebConf, might give us a bigger discount (but only if Le Camp is available) d) the other group must do ALL organising themselves: the only official relationship with DebConf is payment of money and share bandwidth. No formal collaboration on any social events or other efforts No, they will eat and sleep with us, and possibly use our hacklabs. Additionally for Le Camp they will be part of DebConf. Let me clarify point (d): - do they need to have a separate front desk, or just share the DebCamp/DebConf front desk? - do they make registrations using Penta? Or do they just give a spreadsheet telling us how many beds they need for each night? We can decide these things at the meeting where we discuss the issue So I think that groups should have some relation with Debian (or some of our developers), and possibly that meetings should have some value also for Debian. Yes, but do we want to have - a group that will leave at the end of DebCamp, giving up their beds for the DebConf guests? - a group where people stay into DebConf too? The worst case scenario is that they all stay for an extra 1-2 nights to see a little bit of DebConf, and that there are not enough beds for other DebConf guests on the first 1-2 nights. Given the limited (326) beds, my feeling is we should aim for groups that won't stay during DebConf itself. ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] [Debconf13-localteam] split debcamp?
Le mercredi, 15 août 2012 18.13:29, Daniel Pocock a écrit :
Given the limited (326) beds, my feeling is we should aim for groups
that won't stay during DebConf itself.
For the same reason, given the expressed concerns about 325 being not enough,
I'm quite convinced we'll reach the average of 200 beds so any attempt at
rising this average might mostly bring new costs and new problems (in us
managing non-DebC{amp,onf}'ers) rather than taking the costs down.
OdyX
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Re: [Debconf-team] [Debconf13-localteam] split debcamp?
On 08/15/2012 06:13 PM, Daniel Pocock wrote:
c) after DebConf: will bandwidth still be available for another 1-2
weeks? Will there be billing issues?
I don't think Le Camp will be available after DebConf. And I think we
should only think about DebCamp parallel events.
Topping up numbers for the DebCamp week is the highest priority
However, bringing people for an extra week, post-DebConf, might give us
a bigger discount (but only if Le Camp is available)
I doubt it, and anyway finding a 200 pp conference is too much for us.
d) the other group must do ALL organising themselves: the only official
relationship with DebConf is payment of money and share bandwidth. No
formal collaboration on any social events or other efforts
No, they will eat and sleep with us, and possibly use our hacklabs.
Additionally for Le Camp they will be part of DebConf.
Let me clarify point (d):
- do they need to have a separate front desk, or just share the
DebCamp/DebConf front desk?
- do they make registrations using Penta? Or do they just give a
spreadsheet telling us how many beds they need for each night?
We can decide these things at the meeting where we discuss the issue
You are continuing the what if game.
We cannot engineering all possibilities, and we are Debian / DebConf, so
no committee. but doers! If you want to continue with your idea, go
asking informally people, give us something like:
- the OpenCowGroup: a group of 12 people and 2 cows would like to share
the campus with us (including 2 cabal members), for 4 days during
DebCamp. They will provide us the famous cabal milk for free.
- Piraten, openstreetmap, xorg, unglypackage, ...
There are much different possibilities (and IMHO few chances to get
them), so speaking with details is not useful.
So we want informal talks.
Odyx wrote:
For the same reason, given the expressed concerns about 325 being not enough,
I'm quite convinced we'll reach the average of 200 beds so any attempt at
rising this average might mostly bring new costs and new problems (in us
managing non-DebC{amp,onf}'ers) rather than taking the costs down.
I still think that panic talked. So, I still don't think we will have
the campus full. IMHO many people will search outside Le Camp.
Personally I like the idea, and it could help eventually smaller debconf
in future.
ciao
cate
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Re: [Debconf-team] And regarding the Penta replacement
On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 06:22:43PM -0500, Gunnar Wolf wrote: Now, what do we need to get this working? - More people involved. I'm very bad at managing my time and have several projects going on, so I know I will fail if I do this myself. Who are the Ruby coders amongst us, besides Gunnar, who are willing and able to spend time on frab? -edrz ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
