Re: [Debconf-team] Food [Re: Registration questions]
On Tue 2015-02-24 15:06:57 -0500, Margarita Manterola wrote: I agree with what has already been posted that None is a very bad idea that it doesn't really convey the meaning. It should be explicit, i.e. Ovo-lacto vegetarian, no None or similar in the string. Please, whatever is decided, let's not use None for any option. I'm glad we all seem to agree that None really does mean None -- if you have no dietary restrictions, then it does not mean I must have meat any more than I must not have meat. Also, taking into account the data from previous years, I strongly believe that the default should be I like to eat meat and fish. So, I propose: Food preferences: * I like to eat meat and fish (default option) * Ovo-lacto vegetarian * No animal products for me (vegan, strict vegetarian) * Other (specific restrictions - please contact organizers) This has been the traditional default choices, just now slightly more spelled out (replace None with the interpretation I like to eat meat and fish). But this is not actually what everyone means when they say none, certainly not at every meal, as people have mentioned above. The concern that i raised at the start of this discussion is that this array of answers basically encourages people to appear to demand meat and fish, even if they don't particularly want or desire meat or fish at every meal. This happens at lots of conferences. It leads to more meat consumption than is warranted by the question because of the framing. I would still like us to try to not structurally encourage excess meat consumption, and to encourage our caterers to prepare delicious meatless food sometimes for those who have no dietary restrictions. How about: * I sometimes eat meat and fish (default option) * Ovo-lacto vegetarian * No animal products for me (vegan, strict vegetarian) * Other (specific restrictions - please describe below) Or if you really think that people want an explicit way to be able to make sure they don't miss a meal without meat or fish, then let's actually be explicit about it and bring None back with maybe a little more clarity: A) I like to eat meat or fish at every meal B) I sometimes eat meat and fish C) Ovo-lacto vegetarian D) No animal products for me (vegan, strict vegetarian) E) Other (specific restrictions - please describe below) But there's no way i know of to determine the correct default option from past data alone because we've never asked people to split out A from B before. I want to be clear that all of this work has to do with planning the proportions of types of baseline meals; while i want to see the conference reduce unwanted meat consumption as a whole, i do still want to meet the dietary needs of people who have specific constraints for whatever reason (ketonic diets, gluten-free, etc). If anyone has a dietary restriction that means they cannot eat vegetarian food (or any other kind of food), i hope they will identify themselves to the organizers and the caterers so that they do not go hungry on days when the default options tend in that direction. Thanks to everyone for this discussion, --dkg ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] Citizen four screening
On 24/02/15 15:44, martin f krafft wrote: is there anything that would speak against an (evening) screening of Citizen Four? Jakob Appelbaum will assist us¹ and we can easily pull this off in e.g. Heidelberg I–III, maybe before the CW party or so. ¹) https://twitter.com/martinkrafft/status/570229653698441216 If there is no stark opposition, then I'd like to get the ball rolling here… I think the documentary is highly relevant to what we do and so it seems like a perfect addition to our programme. I think this would be a nice adhoc activity, probably after dinner. On the other hand if the intention is to project it during the normal DebConf schedule I think that it should be proposed as a regular (although with a weird length) session to the content team. Happy hacking, -- The best way to predict the future is to invent it. -- Alan Kay Saludos /\/\ /\ `/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] Citizen four screening
Hi, On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 03:44:08PM +0100, martin f krafft wrote: is there anything that would speak against an (evening) screening of Citizen Four? Jakob Appelbaum will assist us¹ and we can easily pull this off in e.g. Heidelberg I–III, maybe before the CW party or so. ¹) https://twitter.com/martinkrafft/status/570229653698441216 Would be really nice. No objection from me. Regards, Rene ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] Citizen four screening
Hi El 24/02/15 a las 15:49, Rene Engelhard escribió: Hi, On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 03:44:08PM +0100, martin f krafft wrote: is there anything that would speak against an (evening) screening of Citizen Four? Jakob Appelbaum will assist us¹ and we can easily pull this off in e.g. Heidelberg I–III, maybe before the CW party or so. ¹) https://twitter.com/martinkrafft/status/570229653698441216 Would be really nice. No objection from me. Same for me. I can only think about one objection, and that one is that in August maybe everybody has already watched it! But I suppose it's a different thing to watch it in DebConf, and talk and talk and talk with friends about it, later... :) Best Laura Arjona https://wiki.debian.org/LauraArjona Regards, Rene ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
[Debconf-team] Please have a mailing list for content team
Hi, This was mentioned on the IRC meeting last week, now I'm raising this as an official request. The content team has one need for secrecy which is to discuss evaluation of talks. This makes sense and is not disputed by anybody. However, with the new organization, a lot of matters fall in the hands of the content team that really don't warrant any secrecy (organization of sprints, conference schedule, call for proposals, etc). Many of us that are not in the content team would like to be able to read and/or participate in this discussions. It's not in the spirit of Debian nor DebConf to have this discussions hidden from the rest. For these reasons, I ask that please a public mailing list is created for the content team that is used to discussed public matters, and the private alias is used only to discuss evaluation of talks and similar matters. Thanks. -- Besos, Marga ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
[Debconf-team] Citizen four screening
Hey guys, is there anything that would speak against an (evening) screening of Citizen Four? Jakob Appelbaum will assist us¹ and we can easily pull this off in e.g. Heidelberg I–III, maybe before the CW party or so. ¹) https://twitter.com/martinkrafft/status/570229653698441216 If there is no stark opposition, then I'd like to get the ball rolling here… I think the documentary is highly relevant to what we do and so it seems like a perfect addition to our programme. Cheers, -- .''`. martin f. krafft madd...@debconf.org @martinkrafft : :' : DebConf orga team `. `'` `- DebConf15: Heidelberg, Germany: http://debconf15.debconf.org DebConf16: Cape Town: https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf16 digital_signature_gpg.asc Description: Digital signature (see http://martin-krafft.net/gpg/sig-policy/999bbcc4/current) ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] Please have a mailing list for content team
Margarita Manterola margamanter...@gmail.com writes: However, with the new organization, a lot of matters fall in the hands of the content team that really don't warrant any secrecy (organization of sprints, conference schedule, call for proposals, etc). Many of us that are not in the content team would like to be able to read and/or participate in this discussions. It's not in the spirit of Debian nor DebConf to have this discussions hidden from the rest. I've no strong feelings either way, but is there some reason debconf-team cannot be used for these discussions? Or maybe start there and split later if the volume becomes annoying to people. My very subjective view is that I don't mind ignoring a few more threads, but I am unlikely to subscribe to another list to lurk. d ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] Please have a mailing list for content team
also sprach Margarita Manterola margamanter...@gmail.com [2015-02-24 16:45 +0100]: However, with the new organization, a lot of matters fall in the hands of the content team that really don't warrant any secrecy (organization of sprints, conference schedule, call for proposals, etc). I'm with David Bremner and don't think we need another list, especially since e.g. conference schedule is not really just content team realm, but a task that requires collaboration from whatever team does the venue and general logistics. Many of us that are not in the content team would like to be able to read and/or participate in this discussions. It's not in the spirit of Debian nor DebConf to have this discussions hidden from the rest. I agree with you that we don't want cabals and secrecy. However, we should also make sure that we're ready for this, that is that having possibly endless public discussions does not prevent people in charge from making decisions in a timely manner. -- .''`. martin f. krafft madd...@debconf.org @martinkrafft : :' : DebConf orga team `. `'` `- DebConf15: Heidelberg, Germany: http://debconf15.debconf.org DebConf16: Cape Town: https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf16 digital_signature_gpg.asc Description: Digital signature (see http://martin-krafft.net/gpg/sig-policy/999bbcc4/current) ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] Citizen four screening
also sprach Laura Arjona Reina larj...@larjona.net [2015-02-24 15:58 +0100]: I can only think about one objection, and that one is that in August maybe everybody has already watched it! But I suppose it's a different thing to watch it in DebConf, and talk and talk and talk with friends about it, later... :) Exactly, and if we manage to fill a track about the future of Debian in a world of cloud and surveillance, this would be a really nice addition. -- .''`. martin f. krafft madd...@debconf.org @martinkrafft : :' : DebConf orga team `. `'` `- DebConf15: Heidelberg, Germany: http://debconf15.debconf.org DebConf16: Cape Town: https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf16 digital_signature_gpg.asc Description: Digital signature (see http://martin-krafft.net/gpg/sig-policy/999bbcc4/current) ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] Please have a mailing list for content team
On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 06:00:20PM +0100, martin f krafft wrote: also sprach Margarita Manterola margamanter...@gmail.com [2015-02-24 16:45 +0100]: However, with the new organization, a lot of matters fall in the hands of the content team that really don't warrant any secrecy (organization of sprints, conference schedule, call for proposals, etc). I'm with David Bremner and don't think we need another list, especially since e.g. conference schedule is not really just content team realm, but a task that requires collaboration from whatever team does the venue and general logistics. Many of us that are not in the content team would like to be able to read and/or participate in this discussions. It's not in the spirit of Debian nor DebConf to have this discussions hidden from the rest. I agree with you that we don't want cabals and secrecy. However, we should also make sure that we're ready for this, that is that having possibly endless public discussions does not prevent people in charge from making decisions in a timely manner. I feel, if I understand her correctly, as Marga does about this and said so in the meeting. I don't necessarily want to subscribe to another list, but do want to be able to look back at a public archive to understand why certain decisions were made in order to provide informed feedback and input. As for having it on -team ... you have said many times in various ways that we need to trust teams to do their work and make their decisions, which I think I mostly agree with. I don't know if it's the right way or best way to get to that goal, but it seems likely to me that a separate public list could be a mechanism to mentally and logistically provide that autonomy while also providing transparency. That said, using -team, imho would be better than the content@ alias, just by virtue of being public. It might require something of a cultural shift and change of thinking for many of us (myself definitely included) to provide a sub team with input, advice and opinions w/o trying to control or micro-manage that sub team's decisions. -edrz ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] Please have a mailing list for content team
also sprach Eric Dantan Rzewnicki e...@zhevny.com [2015-02-24 19:29 +0100]: As for having it on -team ... you have said many times in various ways that we need to trust teams to do their work and make their decisions, which I think I mostly agree with. I don't know if it's the right way or best way to get to that goal, but it seems likely to me that a separate public list could be a mechanism to mentally and logistically provide that autonomy while also providing transparency. Yes, that echoes my concern very well, thanks! Basically, a separate list would give the team a sort of autonomous space where guests are welcome, but they are just that: guests. Yes, this should also be possible on dc-team, but as you equally well said: It might require something of a cultural shift and change of thinking for many of us (myself definitely included) to provide a sub team with input, advice and opinions w/o trying to control or micro-manage that sub team's decisions. But how about we try it? Use dc-team for the discussion and keep that in mind, content team — if you feel like you are being held back by too much input or unclear competencies, then making a new list will be a matter of 48 hours… -- .''`. martin f. krafft madd...@debconf.org @martinkrafft : :' : DebConf orga team `. `'` `- DebConf15: Heidelberg, Germany: http://debconf15.debconf.org DebConf16: Cape Town: https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf16 digital_signature_gpg.asc Description: Digital signature (see http://martin-krafft.net/gpg/sig-policy/999bbcc4/current) ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] Food [Re: Registration questions]
also sprach Daniel Kahn Gillmor d...@fifthhorseman.net [2015-02-24 22:36 +0100]: The concern that i raised at the start of this discussion is that this array of answers basically encourages people to appear to demand meat and fish, even if they don't particularly want or desire meat or fish at every meal. This happens at lots of conferences. It leads to more meat consumption than is warranted by the question because of the framing. The I like meat phrasing is mine and I tried to make it convey yeah, I like it, but I don't require it. Put differently, I thought this option would actually reserve us as organisers the right to serve no meat/fish on some nights, and this is still how I see it, and this is something I'd actually want to do, iff the youth hostel is willing to go along and ensure a tasty non-meat meal. Obviously there are people who need special care, and we'll cater to those, no expecption. And anyone who claims into my face that can't eat anything but meat every day, I will personally buy burgers three times a day if they agree to consume them bound to a chair at a table I get to populate. * Other (specific restrictions - please describe below) As long as additional restrictions can be specified without selecting other. -- .''`. martin f. krafft madd...@debconf.org @martinkrafft : :' : DebConf orga team `. `'` `- DebConf15: Heidelberg, Germany: http://debconf15.debconf.org DebConf16: Cape Town: https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf16 digital_signature_gpg.asc Description: Digital signature (see http://martin-krafft.net/gpg/sig-policy/999bbcc4/current) ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
