Re: Screen Reader
Thanks for the information everyone, I really appreciate the discussion. I feel like I have a much better sense of the issues people are actually facing while browsing the web using screenreaders and how to properly demonstrate the issues to my developer group. Thank you, Aaron OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Screen Reader
Thank you DJ, I got all 152kb of it. Chime
Re: Screen Reader
Jude's links config file in zipped format has permission problems. He gave me the file (or an old version) years ago, and I have it here: http://qsl.net/n1ea/lynxcfg.zip I just tested it and it will download. Best wishes, David On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 9:03 PM D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote: > Just unzip Jude's file and using root, copy /etc/lynx/lynx.cfg to > /etc/lynx/lynx.cfg.original > Then copy Judge's file to /etc/lynx.cfg start lynx and enjoy. > > Thanks Jude. > > David > > On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 8:53 PM Jude DaShiell wrote: > >> my lynx configuration file is at: >> https://www.panix.com/jdashiel/lynxcfg.zip >> >> >> On Fri, 30 Jul 2021, Jude DaShiell wrote: >> >> > I could put my configuration file on my web page. >> > >> > >> > On Fri, 30 Jul 2021, Jeffery Mewtamer wrote: >> > >> > > I generally find text-mode web browsers annoying to impossible to work >> > > with(The navigational hotkeys provided by Orca, NVDA, and JAWS are >> > > just too darn useful), but couldn't some of the configuration hassles >> > > be alleviated by someone who has configured the browser to uplaod >> > > their config file somewhere for other blind users to download? >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> >
Re: Screen Reader
Just unzip Jude's file and using root, copy /etc/lynx/lynx.cfg to /etc/lynx/lynx.cfg.original Then copy Judge's file to /etc/lynx.cfg start lynx and enjoy. Thanks Jude. David On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 8:53 PM Jude DaShiell wrote: > my lynx configuration file is at: > https://www.panix.com/jdashiel/lynxcfg.zip > > > On Fri, 30 Jul 2021, Jude DaShiell wrote: > > > I could put my configuration file on my web page. > > > > > > On Fri, 30 Jul 2021, Jeffery Mewtamer wrote: > > > > > I generally find text-mode web browsers annoying to impossible to work > > > with(The navigational hotkeys provided by Orca, NVDA, and JAWS are > > > just too darn useful), but couldn't some of the configuration hassles > > > be alleviated by someone who has configured the browser to uplaod > > > their config file somewhere for other blind users to download? > > > > > > > > > > >
Re: Screen Reader
my lynx configuration file is at: https://www.panix.com/jdashiel/lynxcfg.zip On Fri, 30 Jul 2021, Jude DaShiell wrote: > I could put my configuration file on my web page. > > > On Fri, 30 Jul 2021, Jeffery Mewtamer wrote: > > > I generally find text-mode web browsers annoying to impossible to work > > with(The navigational hotkeys provided by Orca, NVDA, and JAWS are > > just too darn useful), but couldn't some of the configuration hassles > > be alleviated by someone who has configured the browser to uplaod > > their config file somewhere for other blind users to download? > > > > > >
Re: Screen Reader
I could put my configuration file on my web page. On Fri, 30 Jul 2021, Jeffery Mewtamer wrote: > I generally find text-mode web browsers annoying to impossible to work > with(The navigational hotkeys provided by Orca, NVDA, and JAWS are > just too darn useful), but couldn't some of the configuration hassles > be alleviated by someone who has configured the browser to uplaod > their config file somewhere for other blind users to download? > >
Re: Screen Reader
I generally find text-mode web browsers annoying to impossible to work with(The navigational hotkeys provided by Orca, NVDA, and JAWS are just too darn useful), but couldn't some of the configuration hassles be alleviated by someone who has configured the browser to uplaod their config file somewhere for other blind users to download?
Re: Screen Reader
I agree with Jude about lynx. However I'll add that I've tried to get the developer of Lynx to make the lengthy configuration easier on those of us who use screen readers, the configuration file is huge, and it can be made to work very well, but the amount of time it takes to read the file in a screen reader is enormous. I do wish the developer would make available a blind or visually impaired curated configuration so we could at least have a working configuration, but this has been asked many times and the answer is always a very polite "No". Regards, David On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 7:19 PM Jude DaShiell wrote: > lynx configured properly makes web browsing from the terminal possible if > not necessarily easy. With cursor turned on so it shows and links and > form fields numbered and images identified by labels web pages halfway > compliant are navigable. Probably some other settings I forgot. The > links and elinks browsers are more difficult than lynx to configure and > use though those support tables and frames better than lynx. > > > On Fri, 30 Jul 2021, Adrian Orjales wrote: > > > And talking about terminal, espeakup and brltty are the most used and > > updated I think. But from terminal, the web browsing is difficult to > perform > > > > > > El El vie, 30 jul 2021 a las 21:58, Jude DaShiell > > escribi?: > > > > > VoiceOver can do things Jaws cannot. It's possible to interact with > web > > > elements using VoiceOver and that's the only screen reader I ever used > > > that could do that. No Jaws is not perfect, that's why so many updates > > > and the same holds for narrator and nvda. > > > Both jaws and nvda need rather much expertise to use them well too. > > > Fenrir is available for Linux as well as espeak-ng but those are for us > > > command line users. Fenrir can run in a G.U.I. terminal though. > > > VoiceOver needs a large amount of expertise to use it well. > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 30 Jul 2021, Ahmed Hassan wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > >i have used linux with orca long times > > > > > >orca is not perfect but are jaws or nvda perfect? > > > > > >or windows narrator? > > > > > >we should not talk about surfing the web with voiceover on osx > > > > > > > > > > Voiceover for macos is slowly becoming a joke. It's unfortunate > really > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
Re: Screen Reader
It may be a combination of devices like what's in a proper testing lab. On Fri, 30 Jul 2021, Ahmed Hassan wrote: > Well, if we know what device the demonstration will be done on, I believe > we will be able to make more reasonable adjustments >
Re: Screen Reader
lynx configured properly makes web browsing from the terminal possible if not necessarily easy. With cursor turned on so it shows and links and form fields numbered and images identified by labels web pages halfway compliant are navigable. Probably some other settings I forgot. The links and elinks browsers are more difficult than lynx to configure and use though those support tables and frames better than lynx. On Fri, 30 Jul 2021, Adrian Orjales wrote: > And talking about terminal, espeakup and brltty are the most used and > updated I think. But from terminal, the web browsing is difficult to perform > > > El El vie, 30 jul 2021 a las 21:58, Jude DaShiell > escribi?: > > > VoiceOver can do things Jaws cannot. It's possible to interact with web > > elements using VoiceOver and that's the only screen reader I ever used > > that could do that. No Jaws is not perfect, that's why so many updates > > and the same holds for narrator and nvda. > > Both jaws and nvda need rather much expertise to use them well too. > > Fenrir is available for Linux as well as espeak-ng but those are for us > > command line users. Fenrir can run in a G.U.I. terminal though. > > VoiceOver needs a large amount of expertise to use it well. > > > > > > On Fri, 30 Jul 2021, Ahmed Hassan wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >i have used linux with orca long times > > > > >orca is not perfect but are jaws or nvda perfect? > > > > >or windows narrator? > > > > >we should not talk about surfing the web with voiceover on osx > > > > > > > > Voiceover for macos is slowly becoming a joke. It's unfortunate really > > > > > > > > > >
Re: Screen Reader
If you're planning to run Debian, then Orca would be your best option. It's reliable for Web browsing, in my experience. The other possibility that you might be able to run under Linux is ChromeVox (the new version, not the now obsolete browser extension). The new version requires you to build Chromium from source with various options specified, as though you were compiling for Chrome OS. It obviously isn't packaged for Debian, although I suppose it could be in principle. On 30/7/21 3:05 pm, Ahmed Hassan wrote: Well, a list of screen readers: Voiceover (apple operating systems: ios, macos ETC) Orca (linux screen reader) NVDA (windows screen reader: free) JAWS (windows screen reader: paid but has a free trial) Kind regards: Ahmed <>
Re: Screen Reader
Hi, Orca on Nix or Windblows you can use NVDA or a demo of JAWS. Good luck On 31/07/2021 4:51 am, Aaron wrote: I need to demonstrate the benefits of writing accessible html to my development group, and I'm wondering if anyone can recommend a good screen reader I can use. It doesn't have to be open source, but I'd like it to do a really good job of showing what is possible and how following the WCAG standards helps, and allow me to demonstrate some of the things that make even compliant sites a pain to use when you can't see the screen. Thanks, Aaron
Re: Screen Reader
Hi Aaron There are also blind users of the Linux console. They most often use links or lynks and read the screen with espeakup, fenrir, speechd-up a hard synthesizer (with speakup) or a Braille display. Cheers, Didier -- Didier Spaier Slint maintainer https://slint.fr Le 30/07/2021 à 20:51, Aaron a écrit : I need to demonstrate the benefits of writing accessible html to my development group, and I'm wondering if anyone can recommend a good screen reader I can use. It doesn't have to be open source, but I'd like it to do a really good job of showing what is possible and how following the WCAG standards helps, and allow me to demonstrate some of the things that make even compliant sites a pain to use when you can't see the screen. Thanks, Aaron
Re: Screen Reader
And talking about terminal, espeakup and brltty are the most used and updated I think. But from terminal, the web browsing is difficult to perform El El vie, 30 jul 2021 a las 21:58, Jude DaShiell escribió: > VoiceOver can do things Jaws cannot. It's possible to interact with web > elements using VoiceOver and that's the only screen reader I ever used > that could do that. No Jaws is not perfect, that's why so many updates > and the same holds for narrator and nvda. > Both jaws and nvda need rather much expertise to use them well too. > Fenrir is available for Linux as well as espeak-ng but those are for us > command line users. Fenrir can run in a G.U.I. terminal though. > VoiceOver needs a large amount of expertise to use it well. > > > On Fri, 30 Jul 2021, Ahmed Hassan wrote: > > > > > > > >i have used linux with orca long times > > > >orca is not perfect but are jaws or nvda perfect? > > > >or windows narrator? > > > >we should not talk about surfing the web with voiceover on osx > > > > > > Voiceover for macos is slowly becoming a joke. It's unfortunate really > > > > > >
Re: Screen Reader
Well, if we know what device the demonstration will be done on, I believe we will be able to make more reasonable adjustments
Re: Screen Reader
VoiceOver can do things Jaws cannot. It's possible to interact with web elements using VoiceOver and that's the only screen reader I ever used that could do that. No Jaws is not perfect, that's why so many updates and the same holds for narrator and nvda. Both jaws and nvda need rather much expertise to use them well too. Fenrir is available for Linux as well as espeak-ng but those are for us command line users. Fenrir can run in a G.U.I. terminal though. VoiceOver needs a large amount of expertise to use it well. On Fri, 30 Jul 2021, Ahmed Hassan wrote: > > > > >i have used linux with orca long times > > >orca is not perfect but are jaws or nvda perfect? > > >or windows narrator? > > >we should not talk about surfing the web with voiceover on osx > > > > Voiceover for macos is slowly becoming a joke. It's unfortunate really > > >
Re: Screen Reader
> > >i have used linux with orca long times > >orca is not perfect but are jaws or nvda perfect? > >or windows narrator? > >we should not talk about surfing the web with voiceover on osx > > Voiceover for macos is slowly becoming a joke. It's unfortunate really >
Re: Screen Reader
i have used linux with orca long times orca is not perfect but are jaws or nvda perfect? or windows narrator? we should not talk about surfing the web with voiceover on osx Den 30 juli 2021 21:46:31 skrev Adrian Orjales : The best that you can do is give a try to all of them. I am not apple fanboy, I prefer windows instead of mac os. Also I am sysadmin and I use all the systems including android and Linux, and all systems have good and bad things. Give a try to all of them, and you will see But in my opinion, NVDA fits perfectly to your needs Kind regards El El vie, 30 jul 2021 a las 21:38, mattias jonsson escribió: orca and talkback are stable. only apple fanboys says anything else Den 30 juli 2021 21:34:59 skrev Adri Orjales : Hi Aron I strongly recommend you to use NVDA. Under my opinion, is the simplest and most stable screen reader. Under Linux, there are not stable screen readers. Orca can be used if there's no other option. Back to windows, Jaws is good but has a high learning curve. In terms of smartphones, voiceover is more stable than talkback. I can't say the same under Mac OS, but there in OSX there are no options. If you need more info, nvda has an official mailing list on it's official site. Regards El 30 jul 2021, a las 21:24, Aaron escribió: On 7/30/21 3:05 PM, Ahmed Hassan wrote: Well, a list of screen readers: Voiceover (apple operating systems: ios, macos ETC) Orca (linux screen reader) NVDA (windows screen reader: free) JAWS (windows screen reader: paid but has a free trial) Kind regards: Ahmed Thanks Ahmed. Do you have any recommendations of which of those work better for you? I use Orca for my own testing, but have never gotten it working well enough to use for a demonstration. It is a bit inconsistent about what it reads when tabbing through elements, and if I use a voice other than espeak (flite, marytts, etc) it clips badly. I'd love to know if your experience is better. I will check out NVDA and JAWS. I've heard of them, but rarely work with Windows. Unfortunately, I think MacOSX or iOS are right out for me. Thanks, Aaron
Re: Screen Reader
The best that you can do is give a try to all of them. I am not apple fanboy, I prefer windows instead of mac os. Also I am sysadmin and I use all the systems including android and Linux, and all systems have good and bad things. Give a try to all of them, and you will see But in my opinion, NVDA fits perfectly to your needs Kind regards El El vie, 30 jul 2021 a las 21:38, mattias jonsson escribió: > orca and talkback are stable. > only apple fanboys says anything else > > Den 30 juli 2021 21:34:59 skrev Adri Orjales >: > >> Hi Aron >> I strongly recommend you to use NVDA. >> Under my opinion, is the simplest and most stable screen reader. >> >> Under Linux, there are not stable screen readers. Orca can be used if >> there's no other option. >> >> Back to windows, Jaws is good but has a high learning curve. >> >> In terms of smartphones, voiceover is more stable than talkback. I can't >> say the same under Mac OS, but there in OSX there are no options. >> >> If you need more info, nvda has an official mailing list on it's official >> site. >> >> Regards >> >>> El 30 jul 2021, a las 21:24, Aaron >>> escribió: >>> >>> On 7/30/21 3:05 PM, Ahmed Hassan wrote: >>> Well, a list of screen readers: Voiceover (apple operating systems: ios, macos ETC) Orca (linux screen reader) NVDA (windows screen reader: free) JAWS (windows screen reader: paid but has a free trial) Kind regards: Ahmed >>> >>> Thanks Ahmed. Do you have any recommendations of which of those work >>> better for you? I use Orca for my own testing, but have never gotten it >>> working well enough to use for a demonstration. It is a bit inconsistent >>> about what it reads when tabbing through elements, and if I use a voice >>> other than espeak (flite, marytts, etc) it clips badly. I'd love to know >>> if your experience is better. >>> >>> I will check out NVDA and JAWS. I've heard of them, but rarely work with >>> Windows. Unfortunately, I think MacOSX or iOS are right out for me. >>> >>> Thanks, Aaron >>> >> >>
Re: Screen Reader
> > >orca and talkback are stable. > Orca has significantly less people working on it than other screen readers. Voiceover for ios can be considered as far more mature and refined than talk back. > > >only apple fanboys says anything else >
Re: Screen Reader
orca and talkback are stable. only apple fanboys says anything else Den 30 juli 2021 21:34:59 skrev Adri Orjales : Hi Aron I strongly recommend you to use NVDA. Under my opinion, is the simplest and most stable screen reader. Under Linux, there are not stable screen readers. Orca can be used if there's no other option. Back to windows, Jaws is good but has a high learning curve. In terms of smartphones, voiceover is more stable than talkback. I can't say the same under Mac OS, but there in OSX there are no options. If you need more info, nvda has an official mailing list on it's official site. Regards El 30 jul 2021, a las 21:24, Aaron escribió: On 7/30/21 3:05 PM, Ahmed Hassan wrote: Well, a list of screen readers: Voiceover (apple operating systems: ios, macos ETC) Orca (linux screen reader) NVDA (windows screen reader: free) JAWS (windows screen reader: paid but has a free trial) Kind regards: Ahmed Thanks Ahmed. Do you have any recommendations of which of those work better for you? I use Orca for my own testing, but have never gotten it working well enough to use for a demonstration. It is a bit inconsistent about what it reads when tabbing through elements, and if I use a voice other than espeak (flite, marytts, etc) it clips badly. I'd love to know if your experience is better. I will check out NVDA and JAWS. I've heard of them, but rarely work with Windows. Unfortunately, I think MacOSX or iOS are right out for me. Thanks, Aaron
Re: Screen Reader
Hi Aron I strongly recommend you to use NVDA. Under my opinion, is the simplest and most stable screen reader. Under Linux, there are not stable screen readers. Orca can be used if there's no other option. Back to windows, Jaws is good but has a high learning curve. In terms of smartphones, voiceover is more stable than talkback. I can't say the same under Mac OS, but there in OSX there are no options. If you need more info, nvda has an official mailing list on it's official site. Regards > El 30 jul 2021, a las 21:24, Aaron escribió: > > On 7/30/21 3:05 PM, Ahmed Hassan wrote: >> Well, a list of screen readers: >> Voiceover (apple operating systems: ios, macos ETC) >> Orca (linux screen reader) >> NVDA (windows screen reader: free) >> JAWS (windows screen reader: paid but has a free trial) >> Kind regards: Ahmed > > Thanks Ahmed. Do you have any recommendations of which of those work > better for you? I use Orca for my own testing, but have never gotten it > working well enough to use for a demonstration. It is a bit inconsistent > about what it reads when tabbing through elements, and if I use a voice > other than espeak (flite, marytts, etc) it clips badly. I'd love to know > if your experience is better. > > I will check out NVDA and JAWS. I've heard of them, but rarely work with > Windows. Unfortunately, I think MacOSX or iOS are right out for me. > > Thanks, Aaron > >
Re: Screen Reader
Android: TalkBack out-of-the-box, speel, and commentari user-installed imports. Commentari from China and I don't mean Tiwan so you may want to be careful of that one. MS-dos provox user-installed needs supported hardware speech synthesizer. On Fri, 30 Jul 2021, john doe wrote: > On 7/30/2021 9:05 PM, Ahmed Hassan wrote: > > Well, a list of screen readers: > > Voiceover (apple operating systems: ios, macos ETC) > > Orca (linux screen reader) > > NVDA (windows screen reader: free) > > NVDA is very good to create and interpret HTML pages. > > -- > John Doe > >
Re: Screen Reader
On 7/30/21 3:05 PM, Ahmed Hassan wrote: > Well, a list of screen readers: > Voiceover (apple operating systems: ios, macos ETC) > Orca (linux screen reader) > NVDA (windows screen reader: free) > JAWS (windows screen reader: paid but has a free trial) > Kind regards: Ahmed Thanks Ahmed. Do you have any recommendations of which of those work better for you? I use Orca for my own testing, but have never gotten it working well enough to use for a demonstration. It is a bit inconsistent about what it reads when tabbing through elements, and if I use a voice other than espeak (flite, marytts, etc) it clips badly. I'd love to know if your experience is better. I will check out NVDA and JAWS. I've heard of them, but rarely work with Windows. Unfortunately, I think MacOSX or iOS are right out for me. Thanks, Aaron OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Screen Reader
On 7/30/2021 9:05 PM, Ahmed Hassan wrote: Well, a list of screen readers: Voiceover (apple operating systems: ios, macos ETC) Orca (linux screen reader) NVDA (windows screen reader: free) NVDA is very good to create and interpret HTML pages. -- John Doe
Re: Screen Reader
Well, a list of screen readers: Voiceover (apple operating systems: ios, macos ETC) Orca (linux screen reader) NVDA (windows screen reader: free) JAWS (windows screen reader: paid but has a free trial) Kind regards: Ahmed
