Re: nexuiz-data does not fit on a single CD
On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 10:38:29AM +, Philip Hands wrote: That way, not only can the game and first levels be on the CDs, with the bulk of the levels either being tacked on to later CDs (or simply left off), but if someone wants to have a look at the game to see if they like it, they don't have to waste time/bandwidth in order to discover that it's not for them. That sounds like a good argument for packaging demo versions of games, but I'm not sure that breaking up complete games into separate packages is a good idea. It's a bit like breaking up a commercial game into episodic content and charging at the boundaries (to play this quest, please buy expansion pack zeta!), except I doubt our games would cope with the missing resources in a good manner (most likely, crash when a required resource is missing). -- Jon Dowland signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: nexuiz-data does not fit on a single CD
On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 01:22:46AM +0100, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: ]] Mike Hommey | On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 01:33:29PM -0200, Gustavo Noronha Silva wrote: | On Fri, 2009-11-20 at 15:23 +0100, Bernd Zeimetz wrote: | Ack. People which use computers which did not came with a DVD reader built in | are probably not able to play nexuiz anyway as it needs a pretty fastCPU and | graphics card to be fun :) | | Well, you see, my current computer (Lenovo x200s) does not have an | optical drive at all. I had to install Debian using an usb stick. It | does have a fast enough CPU and graphics card to play nexuiz though, | mind you. | | My point is that the fact that our packages are showing the age of the | media we still want to support should not be a bug. | | It surely is a bug for those who care about CDs. But Zack's point is: | should it be RC, normal, minor, or wontfix ? I disagree with it being a bug in the package; if the data needs to be so big because of quality of textures or number of levels or whatever, that's just how the world is. If for the quality of the textures, or some other difficult to divide data, fair enough, but if it's for the number of levels (or other logically separable unit) it would make sense to split it by level, with a separate package for the first (or first few) levels that should be a Depends, with subsequent levels being Recommends. That way, not only can the game and first levels be on the CDs, with the bulk of the levels either being tacked on to later CDs (or simply left off), but if someone wants to have a look at the game to see if they like it, they don't have to waste time/bandwidth in order to discover that it's not for them. Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560]http://www.hands.com/ |-| HANDS.COM Ltd.http://www.uk.debian.org/ |(| 10 Onslow Gardens, South Woodford, London E18 1NE ENGLAND -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: nexuiz-data does not fit on a single CD
]] Mike Hommey | On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 01:33:29PM -0200, Gustavo Noronha Silva wrote: | On Fri, 2009-11-20 at 15:23 +0100, Bernd Zeimetz wrote: | Ack. People which use computers which did not came with a DVD reader built in | are probably not able to play nexuiz anyway as it needs a pretty fastCPU and | graphics card to be fun :) | | Well, you see, my current computer (Lenovo x200s) does not have an | optical drive at all. I had to install Debian using an usb stick. It | does have a fast enough CPU and graphics card to play nexuiz though, | mind you. | | My point is that the fact that our packages are showing the age of the | media we still want to support should not be a bug. | | It surely is a bug for those who care about CDs. But Zack's point is: | should it be RC, normal, minor, or wontfix ? I disagree with it being a bug in the package; if the data needs to be so big because of quality of textures or number of levels or whatever, that's just how the world is. It's not like it's a bug in linux-image-2.6.31-1-amd64 that it doesn't fit on a 16MB USB stick, which is a similar case albeit with a scale difference. -- Tollef Fog Heen UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: nexuiz-data does not fit on a single CD
On Fri, 2009-11-20 at 14:00 +0100, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: the Debian CD team (in the person of Steve McIntyre) has noted the enormous size of nexuiz-data, which means the package won't fit on a single CD. I'm setting severity serious because this de facto means the package cannot be distributed to our CD users. I agree that the severity can be controversial since we have other ways of distributing packages; feel free to downgrade, better if after discussion with the release team (even better by reducing the size ;-)) This is silly. I haven't seen bug reports about packages not fitting in diskettes, and it would not make any sense if they were filed! =). The world moved on, CDs are getting too small. It's a technical limitation which can be overcome by using the network, or bigger media, such as DVDs. While I think blacklisting the package for CDs is a pragmatical decision, making the package smaller should be just desirable, not a (specially RC!) bug. See you, -- Gustavo Noronha Silva k...@debian.org Debian -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: nexuiz-data does not fit on a single CD
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:59:07 -0200 Gustavo Noronha Silva k...@debian.org wrote: On Fri, 2009-11-20 at 14:00 +0100, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: This is silly. I haven't seen bug reports about packages not fitting in diskettes, and it would not make any sense if they were filed! =). I thought this was why we had dpkg-split, so not exactly the same problem. The world moved on, CDs are getting too small. It's a technical limitation which can be overcome by using the network, or bigger media, such as DVDs. While I think blacklisting the package for CDs is a pragmatical decision, making the package smaller should be just desirable, not a (specially RC!) bug. Or supporting dpkg-split for this case too? But probably not worth the effort for just a handful of packages that arguably would benefit from being broken into more manageable-sized packages anyway. Ben -- ,-. nSLUGhttp://www.nslug.ns.ca sy...@sanctuary.nslug.ns.ca \`' Debian http://www.debian.orgsy...@debian.org ` [ gpg 395C F3A4 35D3 D247 1387 2D9E 5A94 F3CA 0B27 13C8 ] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: nexuiz-data does not fit on a single CD
Gustavo Noronha Silva wrote: On Fri, 2009-11-20 at 14:00 +0100, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: the Debian CD team (in the person of Steve McIntyre) has noted the enormous size of nexuiz-data, which means the package won't fit on a single CD. I'm setting severity serious because this de facto means the package cannot be distributed to our CD users. I agree that the severity can be controversial since we have other ways of distributing packages; feel free to downgrade, better if after discussion with the release team (even better by reducing the size ;-)) This is silly. I haven't seen bug reports about packages not fitting in diskettes, and it would not make any sense if they were filed! =). The world moved on, CDs are getting too small. It's a technical limitation which can be overcome by using the network, or bigger media, such as DVDs. While I think blacklisting the package for CDs is a pragmatical decision, making the package smaller should be just desirable, not a (specially RC!) bug. Ack. People which use computers which did not came with a DVD reader built in are probably not able to play nexuiz anyway as it needs a pretty fastCPU and graphics card to be fun :) -- Bernd ZeimetzDebian GNU/Linux Developer http://bzed.dehttp://www.debian.org GPG Fingerprints: 06C8 C9A2 EAAD E37E 5B2C BE93 067A AD04 C93B FF79 ECA1 E3F2 8E11 2432 D485 DD95 EB36 171A 6FF9 435F -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: nexuiz-data does not fit on a single CD
severity 557218 important
thanks
On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 11:59:07AM -0200, Gustavo Noronha Silva wrote:
On Fri, 2009-11-20 at 14:00 +0100, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
the Debian CD team (in the person of Steve McIntyre) has noted the
enormous size of nexuiz-data, which means the package won't fit on a
single CD. I'm setting severity serious because this de facto means the
package cannot be distributed to our CD users. I agree that the severity
can be controversial since we have other ways of distributing packages;
feel free to downgrade, better if after discussion with the release team
(even better by reducing the size ;-))
This is silly. I haven't seen bug reports about packages not fitting in
diskettes, and it would not make any sense if they were filed! =).
Apparently, a lot of people (not only you, also people on IRC) have
missed the following bits of the above quoted text:
feel free to downgrade
So, let me clarify, I just wanted to prod a decision on whether we want
for our packages the property that packages fit on a CD. Nothing more
than that (besides of course submitting a bug report, that helps keeping
track of the issue).
Personally I completely agree with what you said, CD (at least as a
medium to get the whole of Debian) are the past and I couldn't care less
about supporting them. That, in my eyes, does not solve our problem of
deciding whether we want to support them _nevertheless_, given that CD
are not so long in the past, and given that not every citizen in the
world has a bandwidth capable of downloading 750 Mb.
That said, I'm downgrading severity, but doing that IMO would not solve
our need to decide on this issue.
Cheers.
--
Stefano Zacchiroli -o- PhD in Computer Science \ PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7
z...@{upsilon.cc,pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -- http://upsilon.cc/zack/
Dietro un grande uomo c'è ..| . |. Et ne m'en veux pas si je te tutoie
sempre uno zaino ...| ..: | Je dis tu à tous ceux que j'aime
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Re: nexuiz-data does not fit on a single CD
On 2009-11-20, Stefano Zacchiroli z...@debian.org wrote: Personally I completely agree with what you said, CD (at least as a medium to get the whole of Debian) are the past and I couldn't care less about supporting them. That, in my eyes, does not solve our problem of deciding whether we want to support them _nevertheless_, given that CD are not so long in the past, and given that not every citizen in the world has a bandwidth capable of downloading 750 Mb. Sorry, but there are more options than CD and downloading: DVDs. And that's a viable solution here, IMHO. Kind regards, Philipp Kern -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: nexuiz-data does not fit on a single CD
On Fri, 2009-11-20 at 15:23 +0100, Bernd Zeimetz wrote: Ack. People which use computers which did not came with a DVD reader built in are probably not able to play nexuiz anyway as it needs a pretty fastCPU and graphics card to be fun :) Well, you see, my current computer (Lenovo x200s) does not have an optical drive at all. I had to install Debian using an usb stick. It does have a fast enough CPU and graphics card to play nexuiz though, mind you. My point is that the fact that our packages are showing the age of the media we still want to support should not be a bug. See you, -- Gustavo Noronha Silva k...@debian.org Debian -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: nexuiz-data does not fit on a single CD
On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 01:33:29PM -0200, Gustavo Noronha Silva wrote: On Fri, 2009-11-20 at 15:23 +0100, Bernd Zeimetz wrote: Ack. People which use computers which did not came with a DVD reader built in are probably not able to play nexuiz anyway as it needs a pretty fastCPU and graphics card to be fun :) Well, you see, my current computer (Lenovo x200s) does not have an optical drive at all. I had to install Debian using an usb stick. It does have a fast enough CPU and graphics card to play nexuiz though, mind you. My point is that the fact that our packages are showing the age of the media we still want to support should not be a bug. It surely is a bug for those who care about CDs. But Zack's point is: should it be RC, normal, minor, or wontfix ? Mike -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: nexuiz-data does not fit on a single CD
On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 02:00:18PM +0100, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: Package: nexuiz-data Version: 2.5.2-1 Severity: serious Any reason for not reporting this as a proper bug? Doing that with this post. True, should have done that too. Thanks. :-) -- Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.st...@einval.com Support the Campaign for Audiovisual Free Expression: http://www.eff.org/cafe/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: nexuiz-data does not fit on a single CD
On Fri, 2009-11-20 at 16:47 +0100, Mike Hommey wrote: It surely is a bug for those who care about CDs. But Zack's point is: should it be RC, normal, minor, or wontfix ? minor =) -- Gustavo Noronha Silva k...@debian.org Debian -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
