Re: The desktop in Gnome 3
I think neither solution is optimal. I'm pro on idea of letting shell and nautilus to coexist just like browser and spatial mode of nautilus. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: The desktop in Gnome 3
On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 13:31, Alexander Larsson al...@redhat.com wrote: However, there is a problem. The gnome-shell replacement stuff is all mockups and ideas, and we're a few months from Gnome 3.0. There are plans to start implementing this soon, but its unlikely that what we get by Gnome 3.0 time is super-polished. So, we have two options: 1) Remove the desktop in 3.0 and have the not-quiet-polished gnome-shell feature as the only way to handle transient files. 2) Keep the desktop in 3.0, in addition to the gnome-shell feature, and then drop it in 3.2 when the shell is more polished. Neither of these are ideal. Really, the time to change the user experience is in 3.0, but not having a feature complete replacement is kinda sucky for users. I'm not sure what is the best way forward here. But my current plan is to leave the desktop enabled while work on the gnome-shell feature starts. Then we can delay the decision until a date closer to the Gnome 3.0 release when we know better what the status of the shell work is. This topic dovetails nicely with an issue that we haven't discussed yet which is the 3.0 draft schedule. The marketing team needs at least two months to get all of our 3.0 launch videos and promotions done so I was going to ask that we extend the UI freeze period by 2 weeks. That means that 3.0's UI would freeze in a little over 4 months from now. If there's not enough time to feature-complete the UI in that time, then kicking it back to 3.2 would definitely be the preferred option. Or drop-kicking 3.0 back another 6 months to Fall 2011--we do not want to repeat KDE 4.0. The cool stuff isn't done yet, is not a notion we want people to think about 3.0. In summary, if it can't be feature complete in four months, I would prefer moving 3.0 back to Fall 2011. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
The desktop in Gnome 3
Gnome has for a very long time been using the traditional model of using the desktop as a location to store transient files and launchers. Using the desktop in this way has several known problems. A good description of some of them are this blog entry: http://jeff.ecchi.ca/blog/2010/07/25/desktop-in-the-shell/ I could list some more issues, but I think everyone gets the idea. The desktop as a transitional storage is not working well. Furthermore, and imho most importantly, having the traditional desktop metaphor in Gnome 3 to a large degree blocks work on new interesting ways to solve the problems the desktop tries to solve. Gnome 3 will be a big break in the desktop user experience. Now is our chance to go wild and try new solutions. So, my plan for Nautilus is to drop the desktop handling by default. Instead the solution for transient files and such is the Finding and Reminding stuff being worked on in gnome shell: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Design/Whiteboards/FindingAndReminding (I'm told the mockups are a bit out of date) From a Nautilus perspective this just implies disabling the desktop rendering and not showing links to the desktop anywhere (in e.g. sidebars or menus). Technically this is trivial as the code already exists for the show_desktop + desktop_is_home_dir config options. Additionally we need some global option so that e.g. the file selector could avoid showing the desktop icon, etc. However, there is a problem. The gnome-shell replacement stuff is all mockups and ideas, and we're a few months from Gnome 3.0. There are plans to start implementing this soon, but its unlikely that what we get by Gnome 3.0 time is super-polished. So, we have two options: 1) Remove the desktop in 3.0 and have the not-quiet-polished gnome-shell feature as the only way to handle transient files. 2) Keep the desktop in 3.0, in addition to the gnome-shell feature, and then drop it in 3.2 when the shell is more polished. Neither of these are ideal. Really, the time to change the user experience is in 3.0, but not having a feature complete replacement is kinda sucky for users. I'm not sure what is the best way forward here. But my current plan is to leave the desktop enabled while work on the gnome-shell feature starts. Then we can delay the decision until a date closer to the Gnome 3.0 release when we know better what the status of the shell work is. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: The desktop in Gnome 3
Hi Thank you Alexander for your thoughts. As I already mentioned in another thread, I would like to use the desktop as the memory of my thoughts and actions. For this, I personally would like to use the innovative knowledge management tool called Deepamehta (www.deepamehta.org). But since this is a tool for knowledge workers, I wouldn't see it as a default. Neither I think the desktop should be replaced by any other tool, because it never can be the right one for everybody. Therefore, I would warmly welcome if there would be an API for what is considered the new desktop (or, which might be a better word, screentop). Since I am no Gnome developer, I wonder if such an API is possible or even already there? Best Urs Am Donnerstag, den 16.09.2010, 20:31 +0200 schrieb Alexander Larsson: Gnome has for a very long time been using the traditional model of using the desktop as a location to store transient files and launchers. Using the desktop in this way has several known problems. A good description of some of them are this blog entry: http://jeff.ecchi.ca/blog/2010/07/25/desktop-in-the-shell/ I could list some more issues, but I think everyone gets the idea. The desktop as a transitional storage is not working well. Furthermore, and imho most importantly, having the traditional desktop metaphor in Gnome 3 to a large degree blocks work on new interesting ways to solve the problems the desktop tries to solve. Gnome 3 will be a big break in the desktop user experience. Now is our chance to go wild and try new solutions. So, my plan for Nautilus is to drop the desktop handling by default. Instead the solution for transient files and such is the Finding and Reminding stuff being worked on in gnome shell: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Design/Whiteboards/FindingAndReminding (I'm told the mockups are a bit out of date) From a Nautilus perspective this just implies disabling the desktop rendering and not showing links to the desktop anywhere (in e.g. sidebars or menus). Technically this is trivial as the code already exists for the show_desktop + desktop_is_home_dir config options. Additionally we need some global option so that e.g. the file selector could avoid showing the desktop icon, etc. However, there is a problem. The gnome-shell replacement stuff is all mockups and ideas, and we're a few months from Gnome 3.0. There are plans to start implementing this soon, but its unlikely that what we get by Gnome 3.0 time is super-polished. So, we have two options: 1) Remove the desktop in 3.0 and have the not-quiet-polished gnome-shell feature as the only way to handle transient files. 2) Keep the desktop in 3.0, in addition to the gnome-shell feature, and then drop it in 3.2 when the shell is more polished. Neither of these are ideal. Really, the time to change the user experience is in 3.0, but not having a feature complete replacement is kinda sucky for users. I'm not sure what is the best way forward here. But my current plan is to leave the desktop enabled while work on the gnome-shell feature starts. Then we can delay the decision until a date closer to the Gnome 3.0 release when we know better what the status of the shell work is. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
