Re: Proposal: retire lesstif in f24 and beyond

2015-10-11 Thread Ralf Corsepius 

On 10/10/2015 07:39 PM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:

On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 07:20:22AM +0200, Ralf Corsepius wrote:



I know, we are late in the release schedule, but I am considering to
switching at least Inventor to motif on fc23, as well - It's
unimportant enough to most users, but is important to me ;)


I think that in a case of leaf package like that it totally makes
sense to switch even this late before release. Removal of
a dependency on lesstif seems important enough.


Rebuilding Inventor against motif requires switching
mesa-libGLw and Inventor to motif, i.e. a chain build consisting of
mesa-libGLw and Inventor.

As Inventor seems to be the only user of mesa-libGLw, this should be 
pretty harmless.


Unless somebody objects, I am going to rebuild these 2 packages for fc23 
tomorrow.


Ralf

PS.: derelict-GL3-devel also claims to require mesa-libGLw, but I can
not spot any actual source-code nor object dependency beween GLw nor
Xm. I therefore am inclined to believe this to be a packaging bug in
derelict.





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Re: Proposal: retire lesstif in f24 and beyond

2015-10-10 Thread Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek 
On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 07:20:22AM +0200, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
> On 10/09/2015 09:17 PM, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
> >On 8 October 2015 at 17:04, Kevin Kofler  wrote:
> >>Christopher Meng wrote:
> >>>IMO motif should 'Obsoletes' lesstif in Fedora since motif is free now.
> >>
> >>The reason we kept lesstif even after OpenMotif was finally freed is because
> >>OpenMotif only implements the Motif 2 API, whereas lesstif implemented the
> >>Motif 1 API. Back then, a lot of Motif applications did not compile with
> >>Motif 2.
> >>
> >
> >A lot of applications still do not mainly because by the time
> >OpenMotif was out.. "Motif" was dead except for legacy computer code
> >that a lot of research institutes still use. It looks from the amount
> >of porting that has been done in this thread that a lot of those
> >problems are easier to fix now?
> >
> > From the people who did the porting was it a quick fix or a bunch of 
> > patches?
> 
> As far as the packages I touched are concerned, the "porting effort"
> was very low.
> 
> The effort basically was reflecting the packaging dep-naming changes
> into the specs.
> 
> I did not have to apply any changes to the packages' source code. My
> guess is, on the code-level, today's "Motif" is sufficiently
> backward compatible, the packages already saw testing against Motif
> or even been developed on Motif (and then ported to lesstif)[1]. I
> point, I which makes me wonder, is Fedora seemingly being late in
> the switch to Motif in comparison to other distros.
> 
> A problem hiding is package installation conflicts between the
> *-devel package of different versions of the lesstif, openmotif and
> motif packages. Therefore, I tried to stay with lesstif on fedora <
> 24 and switch to motif only on fedora >= 24.
> 
> I know, we are late in the release schedule, but I am considering to
> switching at least Inventor to motif on fc23, as well - It's
> unimportant enough to most users, but is important to me ;)

I think that in a case of leaf package like that it totally makes
sense to switch even this late before release. Removal of
a dependency on lesstif seems important enough.

Zbyszek
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Re: Proposal: retire lesstif in f24 and beyond

2015-10-09 Thread Ralf Corsepius 

On 10/09/2015 09:17 PM, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:

On 8 October 2015 at 17:04, Kevin Kofler  wrote:

Christopher Meng wrote:

IMO motif should 'Obsoletes' lesstif in Fedora since motif is free now.


The reason we kept lesstif even after OpenMotif was finally freed is because
OpenMotif only implements the Motif 2 API, whereas lesstif implemented the
Motif 1 API. Back then, a lot of Motif applications did not compile with
Motif 2.



A lot of applications still do not mainly because by the time
OpenMotif was out.. "Motif" was dead except for legacy computer code
that a lot of research institutes still use. It looks from the amount
of porting that has been done in this thread that a lot of those
problems are easier to fix now?

 From the people who did the porting was it a quick fix or a bunch of patches?


As far as the packages I touched are concerned, the "porting effort" was 
very low.


The effort basically was reflecting the packaging dep-naming changes 
into the specs.


I did not have to apply any changes to the packages' source code. My 
guess is, on the code-level, today's "Motif" is sufficiently backward 
compatible, the packages already saw testing against Motif or even been 
developed on Motif (and then ported to lesstif)[1]. I point, I which 
makes me wonder, is Fedora seemingly being late in the switch to Motif 
in comparison to other distros.


A problem hiding is package installation conflicts between the *-devel 
package of different versions of the lesstif, openmotif and motif 
packages. Therefore, I tried to stay with lesstif on fedora < 24 and 
switch to motif only on fedora >= 24.


I know, we are late in the release schedule, but I am considering to 
switching at least Inventor to motif on fc23, as well - It's unimportant 
enough to most users, but is important to me ;)


Ralf

[1] In the ole' days, lesstif almost always had been the troublesome 
part, which required app-code to me modified, because of missing 
features or incompatibilities ;)


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Re: Proposal: retire lesstif in f24 and beyond

2015-10-09 Thread Stephen John Smoogen 
On 8 October 2015 at 17:04, Kevin Kofler  wrote:
> Christopher Meng wrote:
>> IMO motif should 'Obsoletes' lesstif in Fedora since motif is free now.
>
> The reason we kept lesstif even after OpenMotif was finally freed is because
> OpenMotif only implements the Motif 2 API, whereas lesstif implemented the
> Motif 1 API. Back then, a lot of Motif applications did not compile with
> Motif 2.
>

A lot of applications still do not mainly because by the time
OpenMotif was out.. "Motif" was dead except for legacy computer code
that a lot of research institutes still use. It looks from the amount
of porting that has been done in this thread that a lot of those
problems are easier to fix now?

From the people who did the porting was it a quick fix or a bunch of patches?


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Re: Proposal: retire lesstif in f24 and beyond

2015-10-08 Thread Marcin Juszkiewicz 

W dniu 08.10.2015 o 12:06, Marcin Juszkiewicz pisze:

W dniu 02.10.2015 o 13:33, Jon Ciesla pisze:

Lesstif being basically dead upstream and motif being available, I think
it's probably time to retire lesstif.



If anyone knows of other packages using it, please let me know and I can
migrate them.


dinotrace
fbb
xastir
xmbdfed
xvarstar

Those are blocking aarch64. Will dig for more.


alliance
polyml

That's all I found.
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Re: Proposal: retire lesstif in f24 and beyond

2015-10-08 Thread Marcin Juszkiewicz 

W dniu 02.10.2015 o 13:33, Jon Ciesla pisze:

Lesstif being basically dead upstream and motif being available, I think
it's probably time to retire lesstif.



If anyone knows of other packages using it, please let me know and I can
migrate them.


dinotrace
fbb
xastir
xmbdfed
xvarstar

Those are blocking aarch64. Will dig for more.
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Re: Proposal: retire lesstif in f24 and beyond

2015-10-08 Thread Ralf Corsepius 

On 10/08/2015 12:24 PM, Marcin Juszkiewicz wrote:

W dniu 08.10.2015 o 12:06, Marcin Juszkiewicz pisze:

W dniu 02.10.2015 o 13:33, Jon Ciesla pisze:

Lesstif being basically dead upstream and motif being available, I think
it's probably time to retire lesstif.



If anyone knows of other packages using it, please let me know and I can
migrate them.


dinotrace
fbb
xastir
xmbdfed
xvarstar

Those are blocking aarch64. Will dig for more.


alliance
polyml

That's all I found.
I believe to have taken care about all of these (but alliance) 
throughout today and rebuilt them against motif on rawhide.


alliance seems multiply pretty broken independently of motif/lesstif.
I would consider it to be a candidate for retirement.

Ralf

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Re: Proposal: retire lesstif in f24 and beyond

2015-10-08 Thread Christopher Meng 
IMO motif should 'Obsoletes' lesstif in Fedora since motif is free now.

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Yours sincerely,
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Re: Proposal: retire lesstif in f24 and beyond

2015-10-08 Thread Jon Ciesla 
On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 10:38 AM, Ralf Corsepius  wrote:

> On 10/08/2015 12:24 PM, Marcin Juszkiewicz wrote:
>
>> W dniu 08.10.2015 o 12:06, Marcin Juszkiewicz pisze:
>>
>>> W dniu 02.10.2015 o 13:33, Jon Ciesla pisze:
>>>
 Lesstif being basically dead upstream and motif being available, I think
 it's probably time to retire lesstif.

>>>
>>> If anyone knows of other packages using it, please let me know and I can
 migrate them.

>>>
>>> dinotrace
>>> fbb
>>> xastir
>>> xmbdfed
>>> xvarstar
>>>
>>> Those are blocking aarch64. Will dig for more.
>>>
>>
>> alliance
>> polyml
>>
>> That's all I found.
>>
> I believe to have taken care about all of these (but alliance) throughout
> today and rebuilt them against motif on rawhide.
>
> alliance seems multiply pretty broken independently of motif/lesstif.
> I would consider it to be a candidate for retirement.
>
> Thank you!


> Ralf
>
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Re: Proposal: retire lesstif in f24 and beyond

2015-10-08 Thread Kevin Kofler 
Christopher Meng wrote:
> IMO motif should 'Obsoletes' lesstif in Fedora since motif is free now.

The reason we kept lesstif even after OpenMotif was finally freed is because 
OpenMotif only implements the Motif 2 API, whereas lesstif implemented the 
Motif 1 API. Back then, a lot of Motif applications did not compile with 
Motif 2.

Kevin Kofler

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Re: Proposal: retire lesstif in f24 and beyond

2015-10-02 Thread Jon Ciesla 
On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 6:52 AM, Joachim Backes <
joachim.bac...@rhrk.uni-kl.de> wrote:

> On 02.10.2015 13:33, Jon Ciesla wrote:
>
>> Lesstif being basically dead upstream and motif being available, I think
>> it's probably time to retire lesstif.  I've migrated the remaining
>> packages still using it I could find in rawhide:
>>
>> xbae
>> mesa-libGLw
>> ski
>> Inventor
>> grass
>>
>>
> An additional pkg is "grace" needing lesstif.
>

Looks like this is just due to xbae and nedit, so it should be fine.

>
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Re: Proposal: retire lesstif in f24 and beyond

2015-10-02 Thread Joachim Backes 

On 02.10.2015 13:33, Jon Ciesla wrote:

Lesstif being basically dead upstream and motif being available, I think
it's probably time to retire lesstif.  I've migrated the remaining
packages still using it I could find in rawhide:

xbae
mesa-libGLw
ski
Inventor
grass


If anyone knows of other packages using it, please let me know and I can
migrate them.  If anyone objects to retiring lesstif, also let me know,
and why you feel that way.  If there are no major objections by Monday
I'll retire lesstif then, and repair any broken dependencies that were
missed.

Thanks!
-j


I have have installed nedit on my F23 box, and this pkg needs lesstif, 
and it won't install with motif!



Kind regards

Joachim Backes


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Proposal: retire lesstif in f24 and beyond

2015-10-02 Thread Jon Ciesla 
Lesstif being basically dead upstream and motif being available, I think
it's probably time to retire lesstif.  I've migrated the remaining packages
still using it I could find in rawhide:

xbae
mesa-libGLw
ski
Inventor
grass


If anyone knows of other packages using it, please let me know and I can
migrate them.  If anyone objects to retiring lesstif, also let me know, and
why you feel that way.  If there are no major objections by Monday I'll
retire lesstif then, and repair any broken dependencies that were missed.

Thanks!
-j

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Re: Proposal: retire lesstif in f24 and beyond

2015-10-02 Thread Ralf Corsepius 

On 10/02/2015 01:33 PM, Jon Ciesla wrote:

Lesstif being basically dead upstream and motif being available, I think
it's probably time to retire lesstif.  I've migrated the remaining
packages still using it I could find in rawhide:



Inventor


[Inventor maintainer speaking]

Migrating Inventor to motif should not be much of a problem, however in 
past, this wasn't possible, because Fedora's lesstif-devel and 
motif-devel clashed and could not be installed in parallel.


I'll try to investigate.

Ralf



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Re: Proposal: retire lesstif in f24 and beyond

2015-10-02 Thread Joachim Backes 

On 02.10.2015 13:33, Jon Ciesla wrote:

Lesstif being basically dead upstream and motif being available, I think
it's probably time to retire lesstif.  I've migrated the remaining
packages still using it I could find in rawhide:

xbae
mesa-libGLw
ski
Inventor
grass



An additional pkg is "grace" needing lesstif.

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Re: Proposal: retire lesstif in f24 and beyond

2015-10-02 Thread Jon Ciesla 
On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 6:49 AM, Joachim Backes <
joachim.bac...@rhrk.uni-kl.de> wrote:

> On 02.10.2015 13:33, Jon Ciesla wrote:
>
>> Lesstif being basically dead upstream and motif being available, I think
>> it's probably time to retire lesstif.  I've migrated the remaining
>> packages still using it I could find in rawhide:
>>
>> xbae
>> mesa-libGLw
>> ski
>> Inventor
>> grass
>>
>>
>> If anyone knows of other packages using it, please let me know and I can
>> migrate them.  If anyone objects to retiring lesstif, also let me know,
>> and why you feel that way.  If there are no major objections by Monday
>> I'll retire lesstif then, and repair any broken dependencies that were
>> missed.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> -j
>>
>
> I have have installed nedit on my F23 box, and this pkg needs lesstif, and
> it won't install with motif!
>
>
> Kind regards
>
> Joachim Backes
>
>
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I've now rebuilt nedit for f24, and lesstif will still be available for
f23.  Thanks!

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