Re: [digitalradio] Re: WARC band scan results...
Would be interesting if you could scan 10147.0 and 18105.0. there is a lot if RSID'ing there from pskmail stations. Rein PA0R and today's results...nothing on 12M 22:26 PJ2MI PSK31 18101701 21:54 G3WXC PSK31 10140894 21:54 PA0DY PSK31 10141361 21:49 N7UF PSK31 18102092 21:45 ke7hty PSK31 10140615 21:45 W1LXE PSK31 10140894 21:45 VX1CDD PSK31 10141068 21:37 DK2CH PSK31 10141508 21:37 W4VON PSK31 10141631 21:36 W4WM PSK31 10140824 21:29 VX1CDD PSK31 10141068 21:21 W4VON PSK31 10140959 21:20 DB7HH PSK31 10141069 21:13 W4WM PSK31 10140824 21:13 TF3PPN PSK31 10140837 21:12 VX1CDD PSK31 10141069 21:06 N7UF PSK31 18102181 21:05 PA3T PSK31 10140812 21:05 VX1D PSK31 10140918 21:04 OK1AYF PSK31 10141371 20:57 TF3PPN PSK31 10140837 20:56 DL6Z PSK31 10140608 20:50 N7UF PSK31 18101893 20:50 KE4NU PSK31 10141503 20:48 W4WM PSK31 10140825 20:48 F4FWF PSK31 10141404 20:48 G3YJQ PSK31 10141052 20:42 g3yjq PSK31 10141054 20:41 IS0SWW PSK31 10142219 20:41 ON5KST PSK31 10142219 20:33 W4VON PSK31 10141110 20:27 CO8LY PSK31 18102181 20:26 IS0SW PSK31 10141447 20:26 DL9LD PSK31 10142031 20:24 IS0SWW PSK31 10141455 20:24 EA1CDV PSK31 10141113 20:21 ON7GB PSK31 18101010 20:17 F4FWF PSK31 10141464 20:16 PA0RDY PSK31 10142028 20:10 OK2PDU PSK31 10141159 20:04 2O8LY PSK31 18102414 20:02 UY5UY PSK31 10141049 20:00 K1NOX PSK31 10142381 19:54 CO8LY PSK31 18102413 19:53 JA8NIJ PSK31 10141002 19:47 ON7GB PSK31 18101814 19:45 G3VMW PSK31 10141326 19:38 EA5XC PSK31 18102423 19:37 EA5XC PSK31 10142513 19:37 VE9DX PSK31 10140736 19:36 F4ZD PSK31 10141507 19:32 WA5TLP PSK31 18101190 19:21 G3VMW PSK31 10141412 19:21 EA5XC PSK31 10142489 19:18 KI7MT PSK31 18101275 19:11 AF6TX PSK31 24921534 18:59 W7PAQ PSK31 18101899 18:45 SP9UPV PSK31 18101824 18:35 NY4FD PSK31 18101977 18:34 KJ4DJ PSK31 10141879 18:29 F5MFO/QRP PSK31 18100817 18:25 wt9y PSK31 10141519 18:24 wt9s PSK31 10141510 18:22 DL7PO PSK31 18101157 18:18 WA3YFQ PSK31 18100924 18:13 YL3BF PSK31 18101714 18:12 F2YT PSK31 18101335 18:10 K6MKF PSK31 18101336 18:09 VE3CI PSK31 10140485 17:57 DL2VNL PSK31 18101923 17:56 F2YT PSK31 18101535 17:54 AE7CD PSK31 18101910 17:54 W7PAQ PSK31 18101179 17:46 SP6IHE PSK31 18100352 17:38 F2YT PSK31 18101528 17:26 AF6TX PSK31 24921641 17:25 ik8nsr PSK31 18102175 17:25 A6TX PSK31 18101639 17:25 AF6TX PSK31 18101639 17:23 ON7MV PSK31 18100956 17:22 RU3B PSK31 18101348 17:16 F2YT PSK31 18102271 17:11 PU2UEO PSK31 24921832 17:10 DL2OCE PSK31 18102503 17:08 DL2O PSK31 18102501 17:07 AF6TX PSK31 18102076 16:53 WB8RMA/7 PSK31 18101576 16:53 9A2TN PSK31 18101784 16:53 ik8nsr PSK31 18102107 16:53 ik8e PSK31 18102104 16:51 XE2YHR PSK31 18100479 16:50 HB9DEV PSK31 18101948 16:45 UT1XA PSK31 18102266 16:45 9A6ILI PSK31 18100713 16:45 F2YT PSK31 18102265 16:36 GM0KWW PSK31 18101211 16:35 IK5JRM PSK31 18100380 16:35 9A2TN PSK31 18101760 16:26 K0JY PSK31 18101014 16:20 SP9RQH PSK31 18101992 16:13 AF6TX PSK31 18101142 16:13 9A1CCB PSK31 18101702 16:13 IK5JRM PSK31 18100399 16:10 K5JRM PSK31 18100400 16:05 CO8LY PSK31 18101341 15:57 9A1CCB PSK31 18101922 15:55 K6MKF PSK31 18101109 15:54 DL1FMK PSK31 18101558 15:49 CO8LY PSK31 18101339 15:48 CO8L4 PSK31 18101339 15:47 CO8Y PSK31 18101592 15:47 SA0BDK PSK31 18100816 15:46 SP3SO PSK31 18100686 15:45 K8QI PSK31 10141012 15:41 9A1CCB PSK31 18101994 15:41 IK5JRM PSK31 18100562 15:40 SP6IHE PSK31 18101569 15:39 F2YT PSK31 18102236 15:38 SP3SLO PSK31 18100690 15:38 9A2TN PSK31 18101751 15:30 SQ2NNN PSK31 18100909 15:30 CO8LY PSK31 18102003 15:26 PU2UEO PSK31 24921494 15:25 G0DBE PSK31 18101127 15:24 IK3FUS PSK31 18101423 15:20 K6PWP PSK31 10141621 15:15 N5DRG PSK31 18101282 15:15 g3pqb PSK31 18101885 15:15 PF7DKW PSK31 18101283 15:15 G3PQB PSK31 18101889 15:14 CO8LY PSK31 18101751 15:08 KC9ORD PSK31 18100943 15:07 G3IVB PSK31 18102398 15:06 F6EQZ PSK31 18100942 15:05 kd6il PSK31 10141663 15:01 ON4CHD PSK31 18101536 14:59 DL1S PSK31 18101086 14:53 RZ3A PSK31 18102329 14:53 KC9ORD PSK31 18101524 14:53 KC5YPU PSK31 18100874 14:51 PF7DKW PSK31 18101283 14:44 KC9O PSK31 18101285 14:42 DG9KON PSK31 18102007 14:36 M0SAS PSK31 18102014 14:27 PF7DKW PSK31 18101283 14:19 ES7FQ PSK31 18101057 14:11 PF7DKW PSK31 18101283 14:04 IK7JT PSK31 18100311 14:03 ES7FQ PSK31 18101157 13:48 ES7FQ PSK31 18101149 13:46 F6EQZ PSK31 18101005 13:41 IK7EJT PSK31 18100997 13:35 PU2UEO PSK31 24921473 13:32 XE2YWH PSK31 18102502 13:32 G0DBE PSK31 18100779 13:30 PF7DKW PSK31 18101282 13:23 F6QZ PSK31 18101005 13:19 PU2UEO PSK31 24921460 13:17 F6EQZ PSK31 18100983 13:17 CO8LY PSK31 18101115 13:16 ON5PO PSK31 18102195 13:09 PF7DKW PSK31 18101281 13:08 F6EQ PSK31 18102187 13:05 AG6U PSK31 10141047 13:01 CO8LY PSK31 18101115 12:59 F6EQZ PSK31 18100723 12:51 DL6NWA PSK31 18101246 12:21 DK1WU PSK31 18101114 12:18 OZ3HCE PSK31 18101943 11:49 F8DBF PSK31 18101511 11:46 I4GAD PSK31 18100502 On Tue,
[digitalradio] FCC - Spread Spectrum NPRM
Regarding Spread Spectrum Notice of Proposed Rule Making (NPRM) http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2010/03/18/11396/?nc=1 It proposes to reduce some of the restrictions on Spread Spectrum but unfortunately does nothing about permitting the use at HF and VHF of SS modes that completely fit within the bandwidth of a phone signal (say 3 kHz on HF and 15 kHz on VHF). It says comments can be filed on or before 30 days after date of publication in the Federal Register. Instructions on how to file comments on the NPRM only are listed on pages 6-7 in the NPRM. http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-10-38A1.pdf Electronic Comment Filing System http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/ecfs/ 73 Trevor M5AKA
Re: [digitalradio] FCC - Spread Spectrum NPRM
Extensive tests on 70cm using ROS 16 baud spread spectrum have been disappointing. ROS appears to be unable to survive the Doppler shift and Doppler induced flutter so prevalent on that band. The hope was that ROS 16 baud would make traditional communications possible that were difficult on SSB phone because of the Doppler shift and flutter. However, the tests show that Olivia 32-1000, in half the bandwidth, and Olivia 16-500, produce print when ROS only prints garbage. This, together with the fact that both stations must be within 400 Hz of each other before even trying to communicate, instead of being able to tune with the mouse as is possible with Olivia, makes it very difficult to achieve a QSO on 70cm using ROS. Olivia has therefore proven to be much more successful than ROS on UHF. Tests using the ROS 1 baud variation will be made next, but the slow speed of that mode is more suited to EME communications than normal QSO's. In two weeks of monitoring ROS 16 baud on 20m, there has been only one observed case where the S/N was under where Olivia 32-1000 can decode, so even on HF, there does not appear to be any justification for using such a wide mode, even if spread spectrum were permitted on HF in the US. Just use Olivia or MFSK16 instead when band conditions are poor. The new narrow band ROS modes were not tested, since a mode to do better than Olivia is what is needed, and the spread spectrum mode of ROS held the best hope. As it stands, only CW is better than Olivia under the worst conditions, and only when copying by ear, but CW is only a little better than Olivia 16-500. We have also found that the more narrow Olivia modes (i.e. 500 Hz wide) are also too greatly disturbed by Doppler to be useful either. If anyone is within 200 miles of FM02, has 100 watts and an antenna gain of 17 dBi or greater, and would like to try ROS 16 baud on UHF, I am available to do that. I promised to post the results of our attempts to use ROS on UHF on this reflector, and this is what we have found. So, it looks like Olivia is currently still the best digital mode to use on UHF, VHF, or HF for normal (not EME) digital QSO's. 73 - Skip KH6TY Trevor . wrote: Regarding Spread Spectrum Notice of Proposed Rule Making (NPRM) http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2010/03/18/11396/?nc=1 http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2010/03/18/11396/?nc=1 It proposes to reduce some of the restrictions on Spread Spectrum but unfortunately does nothing about permitting the use at HF and VHF of SS modes that completely fit within the bandwidth of a phone signal (say 3 kHz on HF and 15 kHz on VHF). It says comments can be filed on or before 30 days after date of publication in the Federal Register. Instructions on how to file comments on the NPRM only are listed on pages 6-7 in the NPRM. http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-10-38A1.pdf http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-10-38A1.pdf Electronic Comment Filing System http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/ecfs/ http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/ecfs/ 73 Trevor M5AKA
Re: [digitalradio] FCC - Spread Spectrum NPRM
I read the proposed rule making and did not find any reference to frequency/band. So, where is it saying SS is allow but only on 220Mhz and above ? On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 6:11 PM, KH6TY kh...@comcast.net wrote: Extensive tests on 70cm using ROS 16 baud spread spectrum have been disappointing. ROS appears to be unable to survive the Doppler shift and Doppler induced flutter so prevalent on that band. The hope was that ROS 16 baud would make traditional communications possible that were difficult on SSB phone because of the Doppler shift and flutter. However, the tests show that Olivia 32-1000, in half the bandwidth, and Olivia 16-500, produce print when ROS only prints garbage. This, together with the fact that both stations must be within 400 Hz of each other before even trying to communicate, instead of being able to tune with the mouse as is possible with Olivia, makes it very difficult to achieve a QSO on 70cm using ROS. Olivia has therefore proven to be much more successful than ROS on UHF. Tests using the ROS 1 baud variation will be made next, but the slow speed of that mode is more suited to EME communications than normal QSO's. In two weeks of monitoring ROS 16 baud on 20m, there has been only one observed case where the S/N was under where Olivia 32-1000 can decode, so even on HF, there does not appear to be any justification for using such a wide mode, even if spread spectrum were permitted on HF in the US. Just use Olivia or MFSK16 instead when band conditions are poor. The new narrow band ROS modes were not tested, since a mode to do better than Olivia is what is needed, and the spread spectrum mode of ROS held the best hope. As it stands, only CW is better than Olivia under the worst conditions, and only when copying by ear, but CW is only a little better than Olivia 16-500. We have also found that the more narrow Olivia modes (i.e. 500 Hz wide) are also too greatly disturbed by Doppler to be useful either. If anyone is within 200 miles of FM02, has 100 watts and an antenna gain of 17 dBi or greater, and would like to try ROS 16 baud on UHF, I am available to do that. I promised to post the results of our attempts to use ROS on UHF on this reflector, and this is what we have found. So, it looks like Olivia is currently still the best digital mode to use on UHF, VHF, or HF for normal (not EME) digital QSO's. 73 - Skip KH6TY Trevor . wrote: Regarding Spread Spectrum Notice of Proposed Rule Making (NPRM) http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2010/03/18/11396/?nc=1 It proposes to reduce some of the restrictions on Spread Spectrum but unfortunately does nothing about permitting the use at HF and VHF of SS modes that completely fit within the bandwidth of a phone signal (say 3 kHz on HF and 15 kHz on VHF). It says comments can be filed on or before 30 days after date of publication in the Federal Register. Instructions on how to file comments on the NPRM only are listed on pages 6-7 in the NPRM. http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-10-38A1.pdf Electronic Comment Filing System http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/ecfs/ 73 Trevor M5AKA
Re: [digitalradio] FCC - Spread Spectrum NPRM
Andy, As I read it, the NPRM did not disturb the current FCC ruling that spread spectrum is only allowed above 222 Mhz, so that is still in force. What it did was modify the power and power monitoring requirements. 73 - Skip KH6TY Andy obrien wrote: I read the proposed rule making and did not find any reference to frequency/band. So, where is it saying SS is allow but only on 220Mhz and above ? On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 6:11 PM, KH6TY kh...@comcast.net mailto:kh...@comcast.net wrote: Extensive tests on 70cm using ROS 16 baud spread spectrum have been disappointing. ROS appears to be unable to survive the Doppler shift and Doppler induced flutter so prevalent on that band. The hope was that ROS 16 baud would make traditional communications possible that were difficult on SSB phone because of the Doppler shift and flutter. However, the tests show that Olivia 32-1000, in half the bandwidth, and Olivia 16-500, produce print when ROS only prints garbage. This, together with the fact that both stations must be within 400 Hz of each other before even trying to communicate, instead of being able to tune with the mouse as is possible with Olivia, makes it very difficult to achieve a QSO on 70cm using ROS. Olivia has therefore proven to be much more successful than ROS on UHF. Tests using the ROS 1 baud variation will be made next, but the slow speed of that mode is more suited to EME communications than normal QSO's. In two weeks of monitoring ROS 16 baud on 20m, there has been only one observed case where the S/N was under where Olivia 32-1000 can decode, so even on HF, there does not appear to be any justification for using such a wide mode, even if spread spectrum were permitted on HF in the US. Just use Olivia or MFSK16 instead when band conditions are poor. The new narrow band ROS modes were not tested, since a mode to do better than Olivia is what is needed, and the spread spectrum mode of ROS held the best hope. As it stands, only CW is better than Olivia under the worst conditions, and only when copying by ear, but CW is only a little better than Olivia 16-500. We have also found that the more narrow Olivia modes (i.e. 500 Hz wide) are also too greatly disturbed by Doppler to be useful either. If anyone is within 200 miles of FM02, has 100 watts and an antenna gain of 17 dBi or greater, and would like to try ROS 16 baud on UHF, I am available to do that. I promised to post the results of our attempts to use ROS on UHF on this reflector, and this is what we have found. So, it looks like Olivia is currently still the best digital mode to use on UHF, VHF, or HF for normal (not EME) digital QSO's. 73 - Skip KH6TY Trevor . wrote: Regarding Spread Spectrum Notice of Proposed Rule Making (NPRM) http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2010/03/18/11396/?nc=1 http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2010/03/18/11396/?nc=1 It proposes to reduce some of the restrictions on Spread Spectrum but unfortunately does nothing about permitting the use at HF and VHF of SS modes that completely fit within the bandwidth of a phone signal (say 3 kHz on HF and 15 kHz on VHF). It says comments can be filed on or before 30 days after date of publication in the Federal Register. Instructions on how to file comments on the NPRM only are listed on pages 6-7 in the NPRM. http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-10-38A1.pdf http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-10-38A1.pdf Electronic Comment Filing System http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/ecfs/ http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/ecfs/ 73 Trevor M5AKA
Re: [digitalradio] Re: WARC band scan results...
OK, will do on Friday. On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 3:54 AM, Rein Couperus r...@couperus.com wrote: Would be interesting if you could scan 10147.0 and 18105.0. there is a lot if RSID'ing there from pskmail stations. Rein PA0R and today's results...nothing on 12M 22:26 PJ2MI PSK31 18101701 21:54 G3WXC PSK31 10140894 21:54 PA0DY PSK31 10141361 21:49 N7UF PSK31 18102092 21:45 ke7hty PSK31 10140615 21:45 W1LXE PSK31 10140894 21:45 VX1CDD PSK31 10141068 21:37 DK2CH PSK31 10141508 21:37 W4VON PSK31 10141631 21:36 W4WM PSK31 10140824 21:29 VX1CDD PSK31 10141068 21:21 W4VON PSK31 10140959 21:20 DB7HH PSK31 10141069 21:13 W4WM PSK31 10140824 21:13 TF3PPN PSK31 10140837 21:12 VX1CDD PSK31 10141069 21:06 N7UF PSK31 18102181 21:05 PA3T PSK31 10140812 21:05 VX1D PSK31 10140918 21:04 OK1AYF PSK31 10141371 20:57 TF3PPN PSK31 10140837 20:56 DL6Z PSK31 10140608 20:50 N7UF PSK31 18101893 20:50 KE4NU PSK31 10141503 20:48 W4WM PSK31 10140825 20:48 F4FWF PSK31 10141404 20:48 G3YJQ PSK31 10141052 20:42 g3yjq PSK31 10141054 20:41 IS0SWW PSK31 10142219 20:41 ON5KST PSK31 10142219 20:33 W4VON PSK31 10141110 20:27 CO8LY PSK31 18102181 20:26 IS0SW PSK31 10141447 20:26 DL9LD PSK31 10142031 20:24 IS0SWW PSK31 10141455 20:24 EA1CDV PSK31 10141113 20:21 ON7GB PSK31 18101010 20:17 F4FWF PSK31 10141464 20:16 PA0RDY PSK31 10142028 20:10 OK2PDU PSK31 10141159 20:04 2O8LY PSK31 18102414 20:02 UY5UY PSK31 10141049 20:00 K1NOX PSK31 10142381 19:54 CO8LY PSK31 18102413 19:53 JA8NIJ PSK31 10141002 19:47 ON7GB PSK31 18101814 19:45 G3VMW PSK31 10141326 19:38 EA5XC PSK31 18102423 19:37 EA5XC PSK31 10142513 19:37 VE9DX PSK31 10140736 19:36 F4ZD PSK31 10141507 19:32 WA5TLP PSK31 18101190 19:21 G3VMW PSK31 10141412 19:21 EA5XC PSK31 10142489 19:18 KI7MT PSK31 18101275 19:11 AF6TX PSK31 24921534 18:59 W7PAQ PSK31 18101899 18:45 SP9UPV PSK31 18101824 18:35 NY4FD PSK31 18101977 18:34 KJ4DJ PSK31 10141879 18:29 F5MFO/QRP PSK31 18100817 18:25 wt9y PSK31 10141519 18:24 wt9s PSK31 10141510 18:22 DL7PO PSK31 18101157 18:18 WA3YFQ PSK31 18100924 18:13 YL3BF PSK31 18101714 18:12 F2YT PSK31 18101335 18:10 K6MKF PSK31 18101336 18:09 VE3CI PSK31 10140485 17:57 DL2VNL PSK31 18101923 17:56 F2YT PSK31 18101535 17:54 AE7CD PSK31 18101910 17:54 W7PAQ PSK31 18101179 17:46 SP6IHE PSK31 18100352 17:38 F2YT PSK31 18101528 17:26 AF6TX PSK31 24921641 17:25 ik8nsr PSK31 18102175 17:25 A6TX PSK31 18101639 17:25 AF6TX PSK31 18101639 17:23 ON7MV PSK31 18100956 17:22 RU3B PSK31 18101348 17:16 F2YT PSK31 18102271 17:11 PU2UEO PSK31 24921832 17:10 DL2OCE PSK31 18102503 17:08 DL2O PSK31 18102501 17:07 AF6TX PSK31 18102076 16:53 WB8RMA/7 PSK31 18101576 16:53 9A2TN PSK31 18101784 16:53 ik8nsr PSK31 18102107 16:53 ik8e PSK31 18102104 16:51 XE2YHR PSK31 18100479 16:50 HB9DEV PSK31 18101948 16:45 UT1XA PSK31 18102266 16:45 9A6ILI PSK31 18100713 16:45 F2YT PSK31 18102265 16:36 GM0KWW PSK31 18101211 16:35 IK5JRM PSK31 18100380 16:35 9A2TN PSK31 18101760 16:26 K0JY PSK31 18101014 16:20 SP9RQH PSK31 18101992 16:13 AF6TX PSK31 18101142 16:13 9A1CCB PSK31 18101702 16:13 IK5JRM PSK31 18100399 16:10 K5JRM PSK31 18100400 16:05 CO8LY PSK31 18101341 15:57 9A1CCB PSK31 18101922 15:55 K6MKF PSK31 18101109 15:54 DL1FMK PSK31 18101558 15:49 CO8LY PSK31 18101339 15:48 CO8L4 PSK31 18101339 15:47 CO8Y PSK31 18101592 15:47 SA0BDK PSK31 18100816 15:46 SP3SO PSK31 18100686 15:45 K8QI PSK31 10141012 15:41 9A1CCB PSK31 18101994 15:41 IK5JRM PSK31 18100562 15:40 SP6IHE PSK31 18101569 15:39 F2YT PSK31 18102236 15:38 SP3SLO PSK31 18100690 15:38 9A2TN PSK31 18101751 15:30 SQ2NNN PSK31 18100909 15:30 CO8LY PSK31 18102003 15:26 PU2UEO PSK31 24921494 15:25 G0DBE PSK31 18101127 15:24 IK3FUS PSK31 18101423 15:20 K6PWP PSK31 10141621 15:15 N5DRG PSK31 18101282 15:15 g3pqb PSK31 18101885 15:15 PF7DKW PSK31 18101283 15:15 G3PQB PSK31 18101889 15:14 CO8LY PSK31 18101751 15:08 KC9ORD PSK31 18100943 15:07 G3IVB PSK31 18102398 15:06 F6EQZ PSK31 18100942 15:05 kd6il PSK31 10141663 15:01 ON4CHD PSK31 18101536 14:59 DL1S PSK31 18101086 14:53 RZ3A PSK31 18102329 14:53 KC9ORD PSK31 18101524 14:53 KC5YPU PSK31 18100874 14:51 PF7DKW PSK31 18101283 14:44 KC9O PSK31 18101285 14:42 DG9KON PSK31 18102007 14:36 M0SAS PSK31 18102014 14:27 PF7DKW PSK31 18101283 14:19 ES7FQ PSK31 18101057 14:11 PF7DKW PSK31 18101283 14:04 IK7JT PSK31 18100311 14:03 ES7FQ PSK31 18101157 13:48 ES7FQ PSK31 18101149 13:46 F6EQZ PSK31 18101005 13:41 IK7EJT PSK31 18100997 13:35 PU2UEO PSK31 24921473 13:32 XE2YWH PSK31 18102502 13:32 G0DBE PSK31 18100779 13:30 PF7DKW PSK31 18101282 13:23 F6QZ PSK31 18101005 13:19 PU2UEO PSK31 24921460 13:17 F6EQZ PSK31 18100983 13:17 CO8LY PSK31 18101115 13:16 ON5PO PSK31 18102195 13:09 PF7DKW PSK31 18101281 13:08 F6EQ PSK31 18102187 13:05 AG6U PSK31 10141047 13:01 CO8LY PSK31 18101115 12:59 F6EQZ PSK31 18100723 12:51 DL6NWA PSK31 18101246 12:21 DK1WU
[digitalradio] Re: FCC - Spread Spectrum NPRM
Nice work, Skip. Confirms the gut feeling I had using the mode on HF although I only had the chance to make a few ROS contacts before I was banned. It's a pity more users didn't try something like this instead of using it to make endless macro exchange contacts that proved nothing and wasted large amounts of spectrum in the process. Julian, G4ILO --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, KH6TY kh...@... wrote: Extensive tests on 70cm using ROS 16 baud spread spectrum have been disappointing. [snip] So, it looks like Olivia is currently still the best digital mode to use on UHF, VHF, or HF for normal (not EME) digital QSO's. 73 - Skip KH6TY
Re: [digitalradio] FCC - Spread Spectrum NPRM
El 18/03/2010 18:11, KH6TY escribió: Extensive tests on 70cm using ROS 16 baud spread spectrum have been disappointing. ROS appears to be unable to survive the Doppler shift and Doppler induced flutter so prevalent on that band. The hope was that ROS 16 baud would make traditional communications possible that were difficult on SSB phone because of the Doppler shift and flutter. However, the tests show that Olivia 32-1000, in half the bandwidth, and Olivia 16-500, produce print when ROS only prints garbage. This, together with the fact that both stations must be within 400 Hz of each other before even trying to communicate, instead of being able to tune with the mouse as is possible with Olivia, makes it very difficult to achieve a QSO on 70cm using ROS. Olivia has therefore proven to be much more successful than ROS on UHF. I was also dissapointed on HF. To me, ROS is an incomplete solution that stands no comparison to other beter designed protocols already in use. FHSS per se is not a miraculous solution. Even when having some processing gain, is not enough to stand and recover from the real world path impairments. Tests using the ROS 1 baud variation will be made next, but the slow speed of that mode is more suited to EME communications than normal QSO's. In two weeks of monitoring ROS 16 baud on 20m, there has been only one observed case where the S/N was under where Olivia 32-1000 can decode, so even on HF, there does not appear to be any justification for using such a wide mode, even if spread spectrum were permitted on HF in the US. Just use Olivia or MFSK16 instead when band conditions are poor. The new narrow band ROS modes were not tested, since a mode to do better than Olivia is what is needed, and the spread spectrum mode of ROS held the best hope. As it stands, only CW is better than Olivia under the worst conditions, and only when copying by ear, but CW is only a little better than Olivia 16-500. We have also found that the more narrow Olivia modes (i.e. 500 Hz wide) are also too greatly disturbed by Doppler to be useful either. Perhaps what is needed is a variant with wider tones/bins, modulated at a higher speed, so path perturbations have a lesser effect. Have you tried higher bandwidth and less tones ? Maybe you can find a better compromise (it will always be a compromise, I believe) that way. If anyone is within 200 miles of FM02, has 100 watts and an antenna gain of 17 dBi or greater, and would like to try ROS 16 baud on UHF, I am available to do that. I promised to post the results of our attempts to use ROS on UHF on this reflector, and this is what we have found. So, it looks like Olivia is currently still the best digital mode to use on UHF, VHF, or HF for normal (not EME) digital QSO's. Skip, please do tell us. I am particularly quite curious about the results of your tests. 73, Jose, CO2JA
Re: [digitalradio] Re: WARC band scan results...
Dear Andy and puts on MultiPSK to perform this function ? 73 tnx Frank yv4gjn - Original Message - From: Rein Couperus To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 3:24 AM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Re: WARC band scan results... Would be interesting if you could scan 10147.0 and 18105.0. there is a lot if RSID'ing there from pskmail stations. Rein PA0R and today's results...nothing on 12M 22:26 PJ2MI PSK31 18101701 21:54 G3WXC PSK31 10140894 21:54 PA0DY PSK31 10141361 21:49 N7UF PSK31 18102092 21:45 ke7hty PSK31 10140615 21:45 W1LXE PSK31 10140894 21:45 VX1CDD PSK31 10141068 21:37 DK2CH PSK31 10141508 21:37 W4VON PSK31 10141631 21:36 W4WM PSK31 10140824 21:29 VX1CDD PSK31 10141068 21:21 W4VON PSK31 10140959 21:20 DB7HH PSK31 10141069 21:13 W4WM PSK31 10140824 21:13 TF3PPN PSK31 10140837 21:12 VX1CDD PSK31 10141069 21:06 N7UF PSK31 18102181 21:05 PA3T PSK31 10140812 21:05 VX1D PSK31 10140918 21:04 OK1AYF PSK31 10141371 20:57 TF3PPN PSK31 10140837 20:56 DL6Z PSK31 10140608 20:50 N7UF PSK31 18101893 20:50 KE4NU PSK31 10141503 20:48 W4WM PSK31 10140825 20:48 F4FWF PSK31 10141404 20:48 G3YJQ PSK31 10141052 20:42 g3yjq PSK31 10141054 20:41 IS0SWW PSK31 10142219 20:41 ON5KST PSK31 10142219 20:33 W4VON PSK31 10141110 20:27 CO8LY PSK31 18102181 20:26 IS0SW PSK31 10141447 20:26 DL9LD PSK31 10142031 20:24 IS0SWW PSK31 10141455 20:24 EA1CDV PSK31 10141113 20:21 ON7GB PSK31 18101010 20:17 F4FWF PSK31 10141464 20:16 PA0RDY PSK31 10142028 20:10 OK2PDU PSK31 10141159 20:04 2O8LY PSK31 18102414 20:02 UY5UY PSK31 10141049 20:00 K1NOX PSK31 10142381 19:54 CO8LY PSK31 18102413 19:53 JA8NIJ PSK31 10141002 19:47 ON7GB PSK31 18101814 19:45 G3VMW PSK31 10141326 19:38 EA5XC PSK31 18102423 19:37 EA5XC PSK31 10142513 19:37 VE9DX PSK31 10140736 19:36 F4ZD PSK31 10141507 19:32 WA5TLP PSK31 18101190 19:21 G3VMW PSK31 10141412 19:21 EA5XC PSK31 10142489 19:18 KI7MT PSK31 18101275 19:11 AF6TX PSK31 24921534 18:59 W7PAQ PSK31 18101899 18:45 SP9UPV PSK31 18101824 18:35 NY4FD PSK31 18101977 18:34 KJ4DJ PSK31 10141879 18:29 F5MFO/QRP PSK31 18100817 18:25 wt9y PSK31 10141519 18:24 wt9s PSK31 10141510 18:22 DL7PO PSK31 18101157 18:18 WA3YFQ PSK31 18100924 18:13 YL3BF PSK31 18101714 18:12 F2YT PSK31 18101335 18:10 K6MKF PSK31 18101336 18:09 VE3CI PSK31 10140485 17:57 DL2VNL PSK31 18101923 17:56 F2YT PSK31 18101535 17:54 AE7CD PSK31 18101910 17:54 W7PAQ PSK31 18101179 17:46 SP6IHE PSK31 18100352 17:38 F2YT PSK31 18101528 17:26 AF6TX PSK31 24921641 17:25 ik8nsr PSK31 18102175 17:25 A6TX PSK31 18101639 17:25 AF6TX PSK31 18101639 17:23 ON7MV PSK31 18100956 17:22 RU3B PSK31 18101348 17:16 F2YT PSK31 18102271 17:11 PU2UEO PSK31 24921832 17:10 DL2OCE PSK31 18102503 17:08 DL2O PSK31 18102501 17:07 AF6TX PSK31 18102076 16:53 WB8RMA/7 PSK31 18101576 16:53 9A2TN PSK31 18101784 16:53 ik8nsr PSK31 18102107 16:53 ik8e PSK31 18102104 16:51 XE2YHR PSK31 18100479 16:50 HB9DEV PSK31 18101948 16:45 UT1XA PSK31 18102266 16:45 9A6ILI PSK31 18100713 16:45 F2YT PSK31 18102265 16:36 GM0KWW PSK31 18101211 16:35 IK5JRM PSK31 18100380 16:35 9A2TN PSK31 18101760 16:26 K0JY PSK31 18101014 16:20 SP9RQH PSK31 18101992 16:13 AF6TX PSK31 18101142 16:13 9A1CCB PSK31 18101702 16:13 IK5JRM PSK31 18100399 16:10 K5JRM PSK31 18100400 16:05 CO8LY PSK31 18101341 15:57 9A1CCB PSK31 18101922 15:55 K6MKF PSK31 18101109 15:54 DL1FMK PSK31 18101558 15:49 CO8LY PSK31 18101339 15:48 CO8L4 PSK31 18101339 15:47 CO8Y PSK31 18101592 15:47 SA0BDK PSK31 18100816 15:46 SP3SO PSK31 18100686 15:45 K8QI PSK31 10141012 15:41 9A1CCB PSK31 18101994 15:41 IK5JRM PSK31 18100562 15:40 SP6IHE PSK31 18101569 15:39 F2YT PSK31 18102236 15:38 SP3SLO PSK31 18100690 15:38 9A2TN PSK31 18101751 15:30 SQ2NNN PSK31 18100909 15:30 CO8LY PSK31 18102003 15:26 PU2UEO PSK31 24921494 15:25 G0DBE PSK31 18101127 15:24 IK3FUS PSK31 18101423 15:20 K6PWP PSK31 10141621 15:15 N5DRG PSK31 18101282 15:15 g3pqb PSK31 18101885 15:15 PF7DKW PSK31 18101283 15:15 G3PQB PSK31 18101889 15:14 CO8LY PSK31 18101751 15:08 KC9ORD PSK31 18100943 15:07 G3IVB PSK31 18102398 15:06 F6EQZ PSK31 18100942 15:05 kd6il PSK31 10141663 15:01 ON4CHD PSK31 18101536 14:59 DL1S PSK31 18101086 14:53 RZ3A PSK31 18102329 14:53 KC9ORD PSK31 18101524 14:53 KC5YPU PSK31 18100874 14:51 PF7DKW PSK31 18101283 14:44 KC9O PSK31 18101285 14:42 DG9KON PSK31 18102007 14:36 M0SAS PSK31 18102014 14:27 PF7DKW PSK31 18101283 14:19 ES7FQ PSK31 18101057 14:11 PF7DKW PSK31 18101283 14:04 IK7JT PSK31 18100311 14:03 ES7FQ PSK31 18101157 13:48 ES7FQ PSK31 18101149 13:46 F6EQZ PSK31 18101005 13:41 IK7EJT PSK31 18100997 13:35 PU2UEO PSK31 24921473 13:32 XE2YWH PSK31 18102502 13:32 G0DBE PSK31 18100779 13:30 PF7DKW
[digitalradio] Re: WARC band scan results.. via Multipsk/Commander
--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Francesco Piccone fpicc...@... wrote: Dear Andy and puts on MultiPSK to perform this function ? 73 tnx Frank yv4gjn Frank, It is really Commander that performs the band changes , then Multipsk with the decode. 1. Set Commander to scan specific frequencies (see config in Commander 2. Set 'dwell time in Commander to suit your needs (I used 120 seconds) 3. Launch Multipsk, press Commander button ,at bottom of Multipsk screen ,to link Commander and Multipsk for frequency information. 4. in Multipsk, activate PSK reporter DLL 5. In Multipsk, if interested in PSK data, choose PSK31 as the mode and then press Panoromic 6. When ready to look at the signals decoded and captured, examine the PSK reporter window in MultiPSK, you will see things like.. 22:26 PJ2MI PSK31 18101701 21:54 G3WXC PSK31 10140894 21:54 PA0DY PSK31 10141361 21:49 N7UF PSK31 18102092 So far, these two days of band scanning have only captured PSK31 signals via the Panoramic feature. It has not captured any RSIDs. I am not sure if that is because there were NO RSIDs transmitted on the frequencies I was scanning, or if the RS-ID decode does not work in Multipsk when Panoroamic is enabled. I will do some more testing tomorrow as I check the frequencies suggested by Rein. Andy K3UK
Re: [digitalradio] FCC - Spread Spectrum NPRM
Hi Jose, We will be starting with tests of ROS 1 baud tomorrow but I will not have any results until next week, after we have been able to make tests over several days and under many different conditions. The tests with ROS 16 baud have been finished and our results are as I have already reported. Perhaps if the spreading were much wider, say as much a 10 kHz or 20 kHz, the result might be better, but then nobody on UHF SSB has an IF filter wider than 2.5 kHz anyway. It would probably take at least a SDR on both ends, I think, but so far those are still rare, even though they make excellent IF's for VHF and UHF transverters. So, wider spreading is just not practical. Whatever it is that is causing a raspy CW note, and raspy sounding ROS tones, must be destroying the data modulation on the carriers, but I do not know enough about the modulation technique or the autocorrelation function that ROS uses to understand why that is causing ROS to fail. Perhaps it is because EVERY tone in the bandpass is so badly distorted that autocorrelation is not possible and decoding fails (i.e. is the Doppler shift perhpas moving the carriers outside some very narrow DSP filter?). As best I can remember from my college days (50 years ago!), autocorrelation will only work if reoccurring signals are identified among random noise, but if the tones are distorted so they appear too much like the noise, correlation may not be possible. I am sure experienced communications theorists can make a better guess than I can! The Olivia tones are also raspy sounding, but Olivia survives and ROS does not. When the tones sound pure, ROS does OK, but that does not happen very often at fringe area reception on UHF, and mostly only when there is propagation enhancement. 73 - Skip KH6TY I promised to post the results of our attempts to use ROS on UHF on this reflector, and this is what we have found. So, it looks like Olivia is currently still the best digital mode to use on UHF, VHF, or HF for normal (not EME) digital QSO's. Skip, please do tell us. I am particularly quite curious about the results of your tests. 73, Jose, CO2JA
Re: [digitalradio] FCC - Spread Spectrum NPRM
Skip, Just a thought, but raspy signals on VHF/UHF are usually associated with aurora. Can you correlate that? 73... Jon W1MNK PS Great discussion!! KH6TY wrote: Hi Jose, We will be starting with tests of ROS 1 baud tomorrow but I will not have any results until next week, after we have been able to make tests over several days and under many different conditions. The tests with ROS 16 baud have been finished and our results are as I have already reported. Perhaps if the spreading were much wider, say as much a 10 kHz or 20 kHz, the result might be better, but then nobody on UHF SSB has an IF filter wider than 2.5 kHz anyway. It would probably take at least a SDR on both ends, I think, but so far those are still rare, even though they make excellent IF's for VHF and UHF transverters. So, wider spreading is just not practical. Whatever it is that is causing a raspy CW note, and raspy sounding ROS tones, must be destroying the data modulation on the carriers, but I do not know enough about the modulation technique or the autocorrelation function that ROS uses to understand why that is causing ROS to fail. Perhaps it is because EVERY tone in the bandpass is so badly distorted that autocorrelation is not possible and decoding fails (i.e. is the Doppler shift perhpas moving the carriers outside some very narrow DSP filter?). As best I can remember from my college days (50 years ago!), autocorrelation will only work if reoccurring signals are identified among random noise, but if the tones are distorted so they appear too much like the noise, correlation may not be possible. I am sure experienced communications theorists can make a better guess than I can! The Olivia tones are also raspy sounding, but Olivia survives and ROS does not. When the tones sound pure, ROS does OK, but that does not happen very often at fringe area reception on UHF, and mostly only when there is propagation enhancement. 73 - Skip KH6TY I promised to post the results of our attempts to use ROS on UHF on this reflector, and this is what we have found. So, it looks like Olivia is currently still the best digital mode to use on UHF, VHF, or HF for normal (not EME) digital QSO's. Skip, please do tell us. I am particularly quite curious about the results of your tests. 73, Jose, CO2JA
Re: [digitalradio] FCC - Spread Spectrum NPRM
John, The raspy sound is similar to that associated with aurora, but this far south, aurora is very rare, and the raspy tone is there almost all the time, every day, if there is no propagation enhancement. So I don't think it is caused by aurora, but if you picture how aurora looks visually, with curtains of light moving about, it makes one wonder if the tropospheric scattering is also unstable in a similar way. The general consensus is that VHF/UHF communication over the curvature of the earth (i.e. past line of sight ) is mostly by either tropospheric scattering or by ducting. What makes the medium unstable in the manner observed does not seem to be well understood. Check the Hepburn prediction page for an excellent discussion of tropospheric scattering: http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo.html scroll down to the bottom, past the maps, and see the links in yellow - really fascinating reading! 73 - Skip KH6TY Jon Maguire wrote: Skip, Just a thought, but raspy signals on VHF/UHF are usually associated with aurora. Can you correlate that? 73... Jon W1MNK PS Great discussion!! KH6TY wrote: Hi Jose, We will be starting with tests of ROS 1 baud tomorrow but I will not have any results until next week, after we have been able to make tests over several days and under many different conditions. The tests with ROS 16 baud have been finished and our results are as I have already reported. Perhaps if the spreading were much wider, say as much a 10 kHz or 20 kHz, the result might be better, but then nobody on UHF SSB has an IF filter wider than 2.5 kHz anyway. It would probably take at least a SDR on both ends, I think, but so far those are still rare, even though they make excellent IF's for VHF and UHF transverters. So, wider spreading is just not practical. Whatever it is that is causing a raspy CW note, and raspy sounding ROS tones, must be destroying the data modulation on the carriers, but I do not know enough about the modulation technique or the autocorrelation function that ROS uses to understand why that is causing ROS to fail. Perhaps it is because EVERY tone in the bandpass is so badly distorted that autocorrelation is not possible and decoding fails (i.e. is the Doppler shift perhpas moving the carriers outside some very narrow DSP filter?). As best I can remember from my college days (50 years ago!), autocorrelation will only work if reoccurring signals are identified among random noise, but if the tones are distorted so they appear too much like the noise, correlation may not be possible. I am sure experienced communications theorists can make a better guess than I can! The Olivia tones are also raspy sounding, but Olivia survives and ROS does not. When the tones sound pure, ROS does OK, but that does not happen very often at fringe area reception on UHF, and mostly only when there is propagation enhancement. 73 - Skip KH6TY I promised to post the results of our attempts to use ROS on UHF on this reflector, and this is what we have found. So, it looks like Olivia is currently still the best digital mode to use on UHF, VHF, or HF for normal (not EME) digital QSO's. Skip, please do tell us. I am particularly quite curious about the results of your tests. 73, Jose, CO2JA
