Re: [digitalradio] Re: Solving the RSID problem once and for all
On 8/16/2010 7:01 AM, jon_g4fut wrote: I thoroughly agree with you Tony. It becomes a chore when one cannot recognise a signals footprint and then has to click through all the digital modes. THEN the wretched transmission ends before success is achieved. :-) It certainly is frustrating Jon. I cannot understand why RS-ID is not used - all it takes is a click of the mouse. Tony -K2MO
Re: [digitalradio] Re: Solving the RSID problem once and for all
On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 02:39:56AM -0400, Tony wrote: On 8/16/2010 7:01 AM, jon_g4fut wrote: I thoroughly agree with you Tony. It becomes a chore when one cannot recognise a signals footprint and then has to click through all the digital modes. THEN the wretched transmission ends before success is achieved. :-) It certainly is frustrating Jon. I cannot understand why RS-ID is not used - all it takes is a click of the mouse. Not exactly, as the car rental advertisements say. First it takes software support, which MixW lacks (Are you folks *LISTENING* to us, MixW developers?). I installed HRD and DM780 because MixW doesn't support RSID and I got so damn tired of failing to ID the correct mode/submode by ear and eye. Once the software support is present, then a click of the mouse will suffice. -- Mike Andrews, W5EGO mi...@mikea.ath.cx Frustrated old sysadmin
[digitalradio] Re: Solving the RSID problem once and for all
--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, mikea mi...@... wrote: First it takes software support, which MixW lacks (Are you folks *LISTENING* to us, MixW developers?). I installed HRD and DM780 because MixW doesn't support RSID and I got so damn tired of failing to ID the correct mode/submode by ear and eye. Once the software support is present, then a click of the mouse will suffice. It isn't only MixW. TrueTTY and MMTTY don't support it either. Then what do you do about all the single mode programs? ROS is probably one of the most common causes of confusion at the moment. I liked the old days when you could tell what a mode was by ear. Julian, G4ILO
RE: [digitalradio] Re: Solving the RSID problem once and for all
But what about the software that doesn't send RSID? Simon Brown, HB9DRV http://sdr-radio.com -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sholtofish I guess someone could write a helper application (say on the system tray) that monitors the sound card continuously and flashes up a box with the detected mode? Not that you would be able to tune to it or reply without the appropriate software but at least it would inform you of what mode was being used.
[digitalradio] Re: Solving the RSID problem once and for all
Hi Simon, My point is that most software that doesn't send RSID is not a problem at all as they are limited to few modes. Does anyone on here not recognize RTTY (MMTTY) or PSK31 MFSK16 (TruTTY) by ear? MixW is a separate point in case as it does have some advanced modes but there is little chance the authors will ever update it again. My idea was just simple prog to run in parallel to any sound card program. It's purpose would be to clue you in on what exotic modes you were hearing. It would then be up the op to decide what program to use. If you're already using DM780,FLDigi or MultiPSK then there would be no need for it at all. In fact taking this idea a step forward, maybe it would be better to write an RS ID front end that all new digi mode programs could take advantage of. Maybe thru a DDE channel or tcp/ip. That way the RS ID detector/transmitter would be a separate entity which could be spawned by a digi mode program or loaded independently. That way digi mode developers could concentrate on their mode and the RS ID developers could harmonize all the RS ID combinations in one place? 73 Sholto --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Simon HB9DRV simon.br...@... wrote: But what about the software that doesn't send RSID? Simon Brown, HB9DRV http://sdr-radio.com -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sholtofish I guess someone could write a helper application (say on the system tray) that monitors the sound card continuously and flashes up a box with the detected mode? Not that you would be able to tune to it or reply without the appropriate software but at least it would inform you of what mode was being used.
[digitalradio] Re: Solving the RSID problem once and for all
Simon, Yes that will be very interesting to see. My only thought about such a system is the complexity cost level for the average ham. Many of us on here lament about people not using RS ID or not being interested enough to try some of the more exotic modes. I don't see this ever significantly changing. For most digimode ops PSK31 RTTY are all that are important - just witness RTTY contests and the activity around 14.070. We talk about ultimate solutions but realistically this will only be a solution for a small percentage of highly technical amateurs. To state it slightly differently: For most ops the ultimate solution has already been invented namely PSK31. We are rapidly discussing developing technologies that are going to bypass a very high proportion of amateurs and to what end? To talk to the same small bunch of guys using a different complex mode each time? Whatever your thoughts about the ROS modem it did capture a lot of interest (and still does) because it was extremely simple to operate (therefore understandable for the average ham) and gave a reward in the form of a confirmation email from a distant land. Actually the same essential qualities that appealed to most of us when we first got into ham radio. CW was simple to operate and we looked forward to the QSL card. I'm not suggesting we abandon attempts like Simon's, far from it, but we might be deluding ourselves if we think an ultimate solution is either necessary or gained through ever more complex technology. 73 Sholto --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Simon HB9DRV simon.br...@... wrote: I think I'm working on the 'ultimate solution' here - a SDR radio and RSID decoder where the RSID decoder analyses between 11.025 and 88.2kHz of bandwidth. I already have a digital decoder built into the console, the RSID will then alert me and with one click I'll be decoding it. Next year I hope to have a SDR receiver which delivers 30Mhz of bandwidth so I can monitor the entire shortwave (or just Ham bands) for RSID other interesting transmissions. Simon Brown, HB9DRV http://sdr-radio.com -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] My idea was just simple prog to run in parallel to any sound card program. It's purpose would be to clue you in on what exotic modes you were hearing. It would then be up the op to decide what program to use. If you're already using DM780,FLDigi or MultiPSK then there would be no need for it at all.
Re: [digitalradio] Re: Solving the RSID problem once and for all
I want one for xmas. VE3BDR From: Simon HB9DRV Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 3:37 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [digitalradio] Re: Solving the RSID problem once and for all I think I'm working on the 'ultimate solution' here - a SDR radio and RSID decoder where the RSID decoder analyses between 11.025 and 88.2kHz of bandwidth. I already have a digital decoder built into the console, the RSID will then alert me and with one click I'll be decoding it. Next year I hope to have a SDR receiver which delivers 30Mhz of bandwidth so I can monitor the entire shortwave (or just Ham bands) for RSID other interesting transmissions. Simon Brown, HB9DRV http://sdr-radio.com -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] My idea was just simple prog to run in parallel to any sound card program. It's purpose would be to clue you in on what exotic modes you were hearing. It would then be up the op to decide what program to use. If you're already using DM780,FLDigi or MultiPSK then there would be no need for it at all. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3079 - Release Date: 08/18/10 02:35:00
Re: [digitalradio] Re: Solving the RSID problem once and for all
Sholto, Simon and all, confirmation email from a distant land. For information, in the last Multipsk version, I proposed this feature (confirmation email) for almost all digital modes (including CW), through a specific sting of characters using a particular protocol (using CRC). The code (Pascal) of formation of the string of characters is public, so... http://f6cte.free.fr/how_to_use_the_r...@_email_reception_report_with_multipsk.doc 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: sholtofish sho...@probikekit.com To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 10:09 PM Subject: [digitalradio] Re: Solving the RSID problem once and for all Simon, Yes that will be very interesting to see. My only thought about such a system is the complexity cost level for the average ham. Many of us on here lament about people not using RS ID or not being interested enough to try some of the more exotic modes. I don't see this ever significantly changing. For most digimode ops PSK31 RTTY are all that are important - just witness RTTY contests and the activity around 14.070. We talk about ultimate solutions but realistically this will only be a solution for a small percentage of highly technical amateurs. To state it slightly differently: For most ops the ultimate solution has already been invented namely PSK31. We are rapidly discussing developing technologies that are going to bypass a very high proportion of amateurs and to what end? To talk to the same small bunch of guys using a different complex mode each time? Whatever your thoughts about the ROS modem it did capture a lot of interest (and still does) because it was extremely simple to operate (therefore understandable for the average ham) and gave a reward in the form of a confirmation email from a distant land. Actually the same essential qualities that appealed to most of us when we first got into ham radio. CW was simple to operate and we looked forward to the QSL card. I'm not suggesting we abandon attempts like Simon's, far from it, but we might be deluding ourselves if we think an ultimate solution is either necessary or gained through ever more complex technology. 73 Sholto --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Simon HB9DRV simon.br...@... wrote: I think I'm working on the 'ultimate solution' here - a SDR radio and RSID decoder where the RSID decoder analyses between 11.025 and 88.2kHz of bandwidth. I already have a digital decoder built into the console, the RSID will then alert me and with one click I'll be decoding it. Next year I hope to have a SDR receiver which delivers 30Mhz of bandwidth so I can monitor the entire shortwave (or just Ham bands) for RSID other interesting transmissions. Simon Brown, HB9DRV http://sdr-radio.com -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] My idea was just simple prog to run in parallel to any sound card program. It's purpose would be to clue you in on what exotic modes you were hearing. It would then be up the op to decide what program to use. If you're already using DM780,FLDigi or MultiPSK then there would be no need for it at all. http://www.obriensweb.com/digispotter.html Chat, Skeds, and Spots all in one (resize to suit) Facebook= http://www.facebook.com/pages/digitalradio/123270301037522 Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [digitalradio] Re: Solving the RSID problem once and for all
Can we persuade Dave (FLDIGI ) and Simon to follow suit? On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Patrick Lindecker f6...@free.fr wrote: Sholto, Simon and all, confirmation email from a distant land. For information, in the last Multipsk version, I proposed this feature (confirmation email) for almost all digital modes (including CW), through a specific sting of characters using a particular protocol (using CRC). The code (Pascal) of formation of the string of characters is public, so... http://f6cte.free.fr/how_to_use_the_r...@_email_reception_report_with_multipsk.doc 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: sholtofish sho...@probikekit.com sholto%40probikekit.com To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com digitalradio%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 10:09 PM Subject: [digitalradio] Re: Solving the RSID problem once and for all Simon, Yes that will be very interesting to see. My only thought about such a system is the complexity cost level for the average ham. Many of us on here lament about people not using RS ID or not being interested enough to try some of the more exotic modes. I don't see this ever significantly changing. For most digimode ops PSK31 RTTY are all that are important - just witness RTTY contests and the activity around 14.070. We talk about ultimate solutions but realistically this will only be a solution for a small percentage of highly technical amateurs. To state it slightly differently: For most ops the ultimate solution has already been invented namely PSK31. We are rapidly discussing developing technologies that are going to bypass a very high proportion of amateurs and to what end? To talk to the same small bunch of guys using a different complex mode each time? Whatever your thoughts about the ROS modem it did capture a lot of interest (and still does) because it was extremely simple to operate (therefore understandable for the average ham) and gave a reward in the form of a confirmation email from a distant land. Actually the same essential qualities that appealed to most of us when we first got into ham radio. CW was simple to operate and we looked forward to the QSL card. I'm not suggesting we abandon attempts like Simon's, far from it, but we might be deluding ourselves if we think an ultimate solution is either necessary or gained through ever more complex technology. 73 Sholto --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com digitalradio%40yahoogroups.com, Simon HB9DRV simon.br...@... wrote: I think I'm working on the 'ultimate solution' here - a SDR radio and RSID decoder where the RSID decoder analyses between 11.025 and 88.2kHz of bandwidth. I already have a digital decoder built into the console, the RSID will then alert me and with one click I'll be decoding it. Next year I hope to have a SDR receiver which delivers 30Mhz of bandwidth so I can monitor the entire shortwave (or just Ham bands) for RSID other interesting transmissions. Simon Brown, HB9DRV http://sdr-radio.com -Original Message-
[digitalradio] Re: Solving the RSID problem once and for all
I thoroughly agree with you Tony. It becomes a chore when one cannot recognise a signals footprint and then has to click through all the digital modes. THEN the wretched transmission ends before success is achieved. :-) --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Tony d...@... wrote: Patrick, Perhaps in detection of the CQ CQ string of characters in transmission, when the TX RS ID is Off and for a sub-set of modes (?) Having the TX RS ID turn on automatically when sending CQ is a great idea. I don't think anyone would oppose to having it on full-time when it comes to the more exotic modes as either. Of course it's not necessary with the ones that are easy to recognize like PSK31 and RTTY. Something for the wish list Patrick. Thank you Tony -K2MO On 8/15/2010 6:34 AM, Patrick Lindecker wrote: Hello Tony and all, For information, on Multipsk, by default the RX RS ID is Off, however the RS ID and Call ID monitoring is On. It means that, by default, on reception of a RS ID, a discrete warning message appears indicating, for example: 10:08:14 RS ID: BPSK125 / 376 Hz Click OK to switch on the RS ID. By clicking on the OK button, the mode and frequency are switched to the detected transmission. Now, as you said except in ALE400, the transmission RS ID is Off. Now it is more difficult to know where a CQ is transmitted. By default the CQ macro (sequence in Multipsk) is the second one but it can be changed... distinguish from others. Domino, Olivia, Thor and Throb would fall into this category along with their derivatives and sub-modes. A few others It would impose a RS ID for each transmission, when it is just necessary for the CQ. main program window to remind the user to turn it on. The animated Perhaps in detection of the CQ CQ string of characters in transmission, when the TX RS ID is Off and for a sub-set of modes (?) 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: Tony d...@... mailto:DXDX%40optonline.net To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com mailto:digitalradio%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 11:04 AM Subject: [digitalradio] Solving the RSID problem once and for all All, Although RSID has been available in just about every digital program for some time now, it continues to see little use. The result has been frustration at both ends as one party tries to figure out which mode is being sent while the other wonders why his CQ's go unanswered. One solution would be to have the RSID turn on by default when the software is switched to a mode that is known to be difficult to distinguish from others. Domino, Olivia, Thor and Throb would fall into this category along with their derivatives and sub-modes. A few others would follow suit. An alternative solution would be to use a flashing RSID button in the main program window to remind the user to turn it on. The animated flashing light can be accompanied by a short mouse-over text message explaining the benefits of RSID. The programmers have certainly gone to great lengths to simplify the use of RSID and they have done a terrific job. But I think they might be able to take things a step further to bring mode identification to the forefront so those CQ's get answered. Patrick Lindeker took the 'always on RSID approach with ALE400 and it works great. Thoughts / suggestions welcomed Tony -K2MO http://www.obriensweb.com/digispotter.html Chat, Skeds, and Spots all in one (resize to suit) Facebook= http://www.facebook.com/pages/digitalradio/123270301037522 Yahoo! Groups Links
