Re: [digitalradio] Re: Questions on digital opposition, QRM on PACTOR PMBOS now from DAVE, Congrats
IMNSHO malicious interference, interference that prevents or interrupts a QSO on a frequency from any source is ILLEGAL by the existing rules. The fact that this rule is not being enforced should generate information to the FCC on these interferences and requests to the same agency to clean it up. If I were operating on a frequency and one of these stations climbed on MY frequency (yes, I own it while operating on it legally) a report would go to the FCC the same day with time, frequency, and any identifying information on the interfering station. The squeaky wheel concept. Again in MO, any station operating unattended and generating RF interfering signals should NEVER be allowed on Amateur frequencies. If any persons/organizations wishes to operate in this fashion they should apply for licenses and frequency assignments that allow this type of operation. It certainly is more commercial than hobby. 73 Les At 01:36 PM 12/27/2007, you wrote: +++ more AA6YQ comments below --- In mailto:digitalradio%40yahoogroups.comdigitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Demetre SV1UY [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: QRM from PMBOs and other deaf robots spoils the enjoyment of amateur radio for many operators Demetre. That's why so many are willing to do practically anything to make WinLink stop generating QRM. Anti-radiation missiles tuned to PMBO frequencies were on a lot of Christmas lists; Ack *this*. You see now why the PBMOs cannot install any DCD mechanism that detects QRM and they leave the busy detection to be the responsibility of the client? Because people like you would misuse such a mechanism and the PMBOs would be rendered useless. This is a VERY bad practice that you and your followers excercise and hence you should have your license revoked for this action you just admitted yourself. +++Demetre, an anti-radiation missile is a weapon typically used to destroy air-defense radars by locking onto their transmitter frequency. Anti-radiation missiles tuned to PMBO frequencies were on a lot of Christmas lists was a humorous way of pointing out that PMBO QRM has generated widespread and massive frustration. Nowhere in this message -- or any other message I have posted -- do I advocate QRMing PMBOs. This sort of action would be as irreponsible as using or operating a PMBO, and I have made that point here on several occasions. +++I have heard the argument that WinLink can't now apply busy- frequency detectors because the amateur radio community is so angry at them for years of QRM that operators would camp on PMBO frequencies just to prevent them functioning. This argument is completely bogus - just another rationalization for continuing to generate QRM. While a few operators might QRM a few PMBOs for a few days, the effect would be minimal. Even the most perverse human operator won't sit at a station continuously just to QRM an automated station. He or she will get bored and go bother someone more likely to provide a reaction. 73, Dave, AA6YQ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.11/1200 - Release Date: 12/27/2007 1:34 PM
RE: [digitalradio] Re: Questions on digital opposition, QRM on PACTOR PMBOS now from DAVE, Congrats
You caught me, Demetre. I did rent an F-16 last weekend and got all the way to Winlink Planetary Headquarters before realizing that the HARMs Hertz gave me were tuned to 7.105 GHz instead of 7.105 MHz as requested. So I buzzed the tower and flew home to beat the commuter congestion at Hanscom. What's your grid square? 73, Dave, AA6YQ -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Demetre SV1UY Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 5:42 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: [digitalradio] Re: Questions on digital opposition, QRM on PACTOR PMBOS now from DAVE, Congrats --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Dave Bernstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: +++ more AA6YQ comments below --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Demetre SV1UY sv1uy@ wrote: QRM from PMBOs and other deaf robots spoils the enjoyment of amateur radio for many operators Demetre. That's why so many are willing to do practically anything to make WinLink stop generating QRM. Anti-radiation missiles tuned to PMBO frequencies were on a lot of Christmas lists; Ack *this*. You see now why the PBMOs cannot install any DCD mechanism that detects QRM and they leave the busy detection to be the responsibility of the client? Because people like you would misuse such a mechanism and the PMBOs would be rendered useless. This is a VERY bad practice that you and your followers excercise and hence you should have your license revoked for this action you just admitted yourself. +++Demetre, an anti-radiation missile is a weapon typically used to destroy air-defense radars by locking onto their transmitter frequency. Anti-radiation missiles tuned to PMBO frequencies were on a lot of Christmas lists was a humorous way of pointing out that PMBO QRM has generated widespread and massive frustration. Nowhere in this message -- or any other message I have posted -- do I advocate QRMing PMBOs. This sort of action would be as irreponsible as using or operating a PMBO, and I have made that point here on several occasions. +++I have heard the argument that WinLink can't now apply busy- frequency detectors because the amateur radio community is so angry at them for years of QRM that operators would camp on PMBO frequencies just to prevent them functioning. This argument is completely bogus - just another rationalization for continuing to generate QRM. While a few operators might QRM a few PMBOs for a few days, the effect would be minimal. Even the most perverse human operator won't sit at a station continuously just to QRM an automated station. He or she will get bored and go bother someone more likely to provide a reaction. 73, Dave, AA6YQ Exactly Dave, This is because of people like you. You just admitted it, so don't cry now. You know all the techniques of war it seems. 73 de Demetre SV1UY
Re: [digitalradio] Re: Questions on digital opposition, QRM on PACTOR PMBOS now from DAVE, Congrats
At 04:23 PM 12/27/2007, you wrote: Again in MO, any station operating unattended and generating RF interfering signals should NEVER be allowed on Amateur frequencies. It's not ! under FCC rules
Re: [digitalradio] Re: Questions on digital opposition, QRM on PACTOR PMBOS now from DAVE, Congrats
At 04:37 PM 12/27/2007, you wrote: Unless you're willing to purchase an SCS TNC, you will not be able to know who or what QRM'd you. A requirement that all unattended stations identify in CW at least once within each 5-minute period of activity would eliminate this problem. Dave I'm not to sure about this. My pactor station *WILL* ID in either CW or P1 my call no matter what pactor mode I'm running at the time. John, W0JAB
Re: [digitalradio] Re: Questions on digital opposition, QRM on PACTOR PMBOS now from DAVE, Congrats
Listen to mineIt IDs in CW at the end of an unsucessful connect attempt and at the end of a completed connect... The rules allow for ID via Pactor exchanges in the interim showing the callsigns of both stations. Dave WB2FTX - Original Message - From: Dave Bernstein To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 8:26 PM Subject: [digitalradio] Re: Questions on digital opposition, QRM on PACTOR PMBOS now from DAVE, Congrats I have never heard a WinLink PMBO identify in CW. 73, Dave, AA6YQ --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, John Becker, WØJAB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 04:37 PM 12/27/2007, you wrote: Unless you're willing to purchase an SCS TNC, you will not be able to know who or what QRM'd you. A requirement that all unattended stations identify in CW at least once within each 5-minute period of activity would eliminate this problem. Dave I'm not to sure about this. My pactor station *WILL* ID in either CW or P1 my call no matter what pactor mode I'm running at the time. John, W0JAB -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.11/1200 - Release Date: 12/27/2007 1:34 PM
Re: [digitalradio] Re: Questions on digital opposition, QRM on PACTOR PMBOS now from DAVE, Congrats
Dave Bernstein wrote: I have never heard a WinLink PMBO identify in CW. 73, Dave, AA6YQ That is because they never do. The SCS TNCs can be set to ID in CW, but in practice no one ever does. de Roger W6VZV
Re: [digitalradio] Re: Questions on digital opposition, QRM on PACTOR PMBOS now from DAVE, Congrats
Dave, you said earlier that you were running Winlink Classic, not Winlink 2000.
That would make your station a BBS instead of a PMBO, wouldn't it?
Dave (the other one) was commenting about PMBOs. Maybe the WL2K code is
different?
73, Howard K5HB
- Original Message
From: David Struebel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 7:36:45 PM
Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Re: Questions on digital opposition, QRM on PACTOR
PMBOS now from DAVE, Congrats
Listen to mineIt IDs in CW
at the end of an unsucessful connect attempt and at the end of a completed
connect... The rules allow for ID via Pactor exchanges in the interim showing
the callsigns of both stations.
Dave WB2FTX
- Original Message -
From:
Dave
Bernstein
To: digitalradio@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 8:26
PM
Subject: [digitalradio] Re: Questions on
digital opposition, QRM on PACTOR PMBOS now from DAVE, Congrats
I have never heard a WinLink PMBO identify in CW.
73,
Dave,
AA6YQ
--- In digitalradio@ yahoogroups. com,
John Becker, WØJAB [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
At 04:37 PM
12/27/2007, you wrote:
Unless you're willing to
purchase an SCS TNC, you will not be
able
to know who or what
QRM'd you. A requirement that all unattended
stations identify in
CW at least once within each 5-minute period of
activity would
eliminate this problem.
Dave I'm not to sure about
this.
My pactor station *WILL* ID in either CW or P1 my call
no matter what pactor mode I'm running at the time.
John,
W0JAB
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free
Edition.
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.11/1200 - Release Date:
12/27/2007 1:34 PM
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Re: [digitalradio] Re: Questions on digital opposition, QRM on PACTOR PMBOS now from DAVE, Congrats
At 07:26 PM 12/27/2007, you wrote: I have never heard a WinLink PMBO identify in CW. Like I said Dave my winlink station does it all the time. Either in P1 or CW. Now if I'm in a KB2KB QSO it will not I will force the SCS modem to do it. But under computer control it will. It's in use right now. and I will let you know what it does. Nice really nice - some lid with a PSK signal is tuning up and down the band to make sure he get's us. P1 ID when the link was dropped. John, W0JAB
Re: [digitalradio] Re: Questions on digital opposition
Demetre SV1UY wrote: What about the Radio Hams that do not have the luxury of 100 meg Internet that YOU ENJOY, or don't even have a 56k dial-up connection? What about the ones who travel the world in a boat, in an RV, the ones that are on holiday away from home? What about the ones who travel in places where not even a mobile phone can operate? Are these not Radio Hams? Well I do travel in remote portions of our South West. I carry an IC 7000 and a VX-7. But I also have a satellite phone and an emergency locater in addition to my normal cell phone. It is important to separate business from a hobby. In such a situation there are not that many scenarios where ham radio would be a better emergency solution than those systems designed for the task. The reason I say this is that VHF and UHF are only occasionally viable. If there is a situation where one has a personal emergency, accident or injury, it is not really practical to set up an HF rig. There is also the question will there be the appropriate band conditions for the necessary communications. On a ship there HF gear would already be installed and would be great as a last resort, but I for one would start out with a system where I knew there was 24 hour monitoring. For those who do not have an Internet connection, I have two comments - 1 - They would be better served with a UHF link that offers decent band width. 2- I would question the legality of such a data link in the first place. Not to mention emergency situations where these Extremely Wide HF Networking Digital Modes like PACTOR 3 might assist. (2.2 KHZ wide, less than a voice channel, hmm some width, don't you think?) . 'Might assist' is the operative word. I don't know about you, but I have lived through a few emergencies both here in New York and elsewhere. On 9-11 we lost virtually all communications in the city. The digital radios failed our fire fighters and cost lives. Repeater systems Amateur, Public safety, cell phone and ENG were all lost when the towers fell. Regular telephone and cell phone systems were jammed. The city's emergency management office was destroyed. Things that worked then were the basic things. Same goes for the black outs we have had. We learned not to depend on any installed infrastructure. Our club is in the process of building a repeater that should remain functional under all but the very worst of situations. Helping in Emergencies is number ONE PRIORITY in every Amateur Service all around the World!!! From what I have read it is also number ONE in USA. Very true, but the modes should be reliable and usable under primitive conditions QSL card collection (although I do not dislike it) is not number ONE. It is number TWO in Amateur Radio. Actually experimentation is my number two and it includes a number of digital modes. Are you trying to tell us that number ONE priority is worthless??? No, I am telling you that the number one priority should be given more serious consideration. Anyone can use almost any situation as a straw man and claim that it supports emergency communications. Everyone has the right to exercise their hobby in the Ham Radio Bands OM. And don't tell me that PACTOR 3 operators do not listen before they transmit. They always listen because they want their transmitters to stay cool, especially if this HF radio they are using is their only means of communication. Makes sense doesn't it? At least I hope it does to you!!! That is not what other PACTOR operators have stated as recently as today in this thread. PACTOR stations listen for other PACTOR stations but not stations operating in other modes.
Re: [digitalradio] Re: Questions on digital opposition
Demetre, I think you did not read carefully what Dave wrote and you quoted. He said, Currently deployed PMBOs have no way to reliably determine whether or not the frequency is *LOCALLY* clear. This means that if a PMBO is next door to me ( i.e. locally) and I am in a QSO that the client cannot hear, the PMBO will transmit anyway on top of me because the PMBO cannot detect signals in any mode except Pactor, even it busy channel detection is not turned off. Even though I may be strong at the PMBO location, but weak, or even not detectable at all at the client location, the PMBO will transmit anyway in response to a client station that cannot hear me. This is the problem with unattended stations. When stations on both ends are attended, each can hear a station local to itself, so the chances of inadvertant QRM to a local station are probably cut in half. 73, Skip KH6TY - Original Message - From: Demetre SV1UY [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 4:56 PM Subject: [digitalradio] Re: Questions on digital opposition --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Dave Bernstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Currently deployed PMBOs have no way to reliably determine whether or not the frequency is locally clear. They may be configured to detect Pactor signals, but they cannot detect signals in any other mode. 73, Dave, AA6YQ You said that, but the clients always listen OM. After all we do not live in a perfect world and if there is a little QRM, you can always blame the client if this is what you are after. You can report the client to your FCC and they can pull his/her ear, if it makes you happy!!! 73 de SV1UY No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.9/1197 - Release Date: 12/25/2007 8:04 PM
Re: [digitalradio] Re: Questions on digital opposition
Demetre SV1UY wrote: Sometimes through the night when I cannot access any European PACTOR PMBOS because I do not have a decent 80 meters antenna, I can connect to PMBOs in Canada or USA on 30 or 40 meters. How about that? If it uses more than 500 hertz bandwidth it is not something I want on 30 meters period.
Re: [digitalradio] Re: Questions on digital opposition
Demetre SV1UY wrote: First of all not many can afford a satellite phone, which is also not amateur radio. A satellite phone plus connection fees are far more expensive than a PACTOR MODEM. Second many do not even have the luxury of a UHF link, nor are they near a town, so HF is playing a viable role in their communications. This is where PACTOR 3 comes and solves their problem. Also when everything has gone down in an emergency, PACTOR 3 can give you reliable communications using a PACTOR mailbox that resides in a neighbouring country. Sometimes through the night when I cannot access any European PACTOR PMBOS because I do not have a decent 80 meters antenna It looks like your Internet connection to this list is working fine. Are you using PACTOR?
