[EVDL] VW's Herbert Diess Explains Why Brand's EVs Are Better Than Gas
https://insideevs.com/news/541485/vw-diess-evs-better-gas/ Hell has finally frozen over and pigs fly. Lawrence Rhodes ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] New subject: Cheap Level 2 EVSE
I have a 24 amp 240v "split volt" that plugs into a Nema 14-30 outlet. I have the outlet inside an RV style charging box that has a lockable closable cover. So I use a combo padlock to lock the cover closed with the plug inside and also pass the cord through the padlock. (the switchvolt unit has a "nail head" hole on the back that goes over a screw in the wall, so it's sort of wall mountedbut you can lift it off if you know how it's mounted...) It's not quite the same as screwed to a concrete wall with security screws, but if somebody cuts the cord they will have to deal with 240 volts... and an EVSE that is missing a plug. Jay On 10/25/21 3:41 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: But that is still a charge cord. I want a non-stealable wall mount cheap L2 charger box for a public space not one's home garage... and they have disappeared. bob On Sun, Oct 24, 2021 at 6:34 PM Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote: https://www.amazon.com/Charger-Portable-Electric-Charging-Universal/dp/B096GBJW14 Here is a $139 level 2 EVSE of course it's only 16amps so limited to 3 or 4kw. Lawrence Rhodes I buy the $299 L2 charge cords that will do both L1 and L2. But what has disappeared is the $300 wall mounted L2. I want to donate an L2 to an organization, but the less expensive ones have disappeared. Bob ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] New subject: Cheap Level 2 EVSE
First of all nothing is non steal able. You can mount anything on a wall and hide the connection. The thief can still open the box unscrew it from the wall and take it. It just takes a little longer if permanently installed. https://www.ebay.com/itm/124848314568 This is from the Czech Republic. Lawrence Rhodes On Monday, October 25, 2021, 12:42:02 PM PDT, Robert Bruninga wrote: But that is still a charge cord. I want a non-stealable wall mount cheap L2 charger box for a public space not one's home garage... and they have disappeared. bob On Sun, Oct 24, 2021 at 6:34 PM Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote: > > https://www.amazon.com/Charger-Portable-Electric-Charging-Universal/dp/B096GBJW14 > Here is a $139 level 2 EVSE of course it's only 16amps so limited to 3 or > 4kw. Lawrence Rhodes > > I buy the $299 L2 charge cords that will do both L1 and L2. > But what has disappeared is the $300 wall mounted L2. > I want to donate an L2 to an organization, but the less > expensive ones have disappeared. > > Bob > ___ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] New subject: Cheap Level 2 EVSE
Yes, I hve identified an excellent exterior rated box at very low cost, but it requires cutting a hole in the front palnle stell box. Something I am excited to do, but now that I am disabled and cannot even make it out to the shop, it wouild be something I am suggesting someone else do and in this case it is someone with no technical skills at a location in anotgher city and a building /group of shich I am not a member. So again, I lament the loss of low cost L2 on-the-wall charge boxes. Bob On Mon, Oct 25, 2021 at 3:51 PM Willie McKemie via EV wrote: > > You might consider putting the unit in a steel securable box. Maybe with a > wire mesh window so the user can see the lights on the unit. I guess the > cost of the steel box would be would cover the difference between a proper > wall mount and the portable. On the other hand the portable is available. > > On Mon, Oct 25, 2021, 14:42 Robert Bruninga via EV > wrote: > > > But that is still a charge cord. > > I want a non-stealable wall mount cheap L2 charger box > > for a public space not one's home garage... > > and they have disappeared. > > bob > > > > On Sun, Oct 24, 2021 at 6:34 PM Lawrence Rhodes via EV > > wrote: > > > > > > > > https://www.amazon.com/Charger-Portable-Electric-Charging-Universal/dp/B096GBJW14 > > Here is a $139 level 2 EVSE of course it's only 16amps so limited to 3 or > > 4kw. Lawrence Rhodes > > > > > > I buy the $299 L2 charge cords that will do both L1 and L2. > > > But what has disappeared is the $300 wall mounted L2. > > > I want to donate an L2 to an organization, but the less > > > expensive ones have disappeared. > > > > > > Bob > > > ___ > > > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > > > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > > > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > > > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > ___ > > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20211025/4e97e9c5/attachment.html> > ___ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] New subject: Cheap Level 2 EVSE
You might consider putting the unit in a steel securable box. Maybe with a wire mesh window so the user can see the lights on the unit. I guess the cost of the steel box would be would cover the difference between a proper wall mount and the portable. On the other hand the portable is available. On Mon, Oct 25, 2021, 14:42 Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: > But that is still a charge cord. > I want a non-stealable wall mount cheap L2 charger box > for a public space not one's home garage... > and they have disappeared. > bob > > On Sun, Oct 24, 2021 at 6:34 PM Lawrence Rhodes via EV > wrote: > > > > > https://www.amazon.com/Charger-Portable-Electric-Charging-Universal/dp/B096GBJW14 > Here is a $139 level 2 EVSE of course it's only 16amps so limited to 3 or > 4kw. Lawrence Rhodes > > > > I buy the $299 L2 charge cords that will do both L1 and L2. > > But what has disappeared is the $300 wall mounted L2. > > I want to donate an L2 to an organization, but the less > > expensive ones have disappeared. > > > > Bob > > ___ > > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > ___ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20211025/4e97e9c5/attachment.html> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] New subject: Cheap Level 2 EVSE
But that is still a charge cord. I want a non-stealable wall mount cheap L2 charger box for a public space not one's home garage... and they have disappeared. bob On Sun, Oct 24, 2021 at 6:34 PM Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote: > > https://www.amazon.com/Charger-Portable-Electric-Charging-Universal/dp/B096GBJW14 > Here is a $139 level 2 EVSE of course it's only 16amps so limited to 3 or > 4kw. Lawrence Rhodes > > I buy the $299 L2 charge cords that will do both L1 and L2. > But what has disappeared is the $300 wall mounted L2. > I want to donate an L2 to an organization, but the less > expensive ones have disappeared. > > Bob > ___ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Dump/Jump charging modern EVs
Thanks Lee, But keep in mind without galvanic isolation on this, (or vehicle support from the manufacturers) it would likely instantly trip the HV isolation detection on one or both EVs. So the magnetics have to handle the full power being transferred, not just the difference. Basically the isolation check circuitry on one vehicle is going to trigger the opposite's. I have also run into this when paralleling 2 EV packs (Tesla). -Phil https://youtube.com/ingineerix/ On Mon, Oct 25, 2021 at 10:01 AM Lee Hart wrote: > (-Phil-) via EV wrote: > > Don't believe everything you read! Definitely not possible to do this > > without some sort of high-power buck/boost converter in-between the EVs. > > Even a 50kW capable unit is going to probably weigh 50lbs minimum even if > > built very well. > > Hi Phil, > > Forgive me for butting in, but that's not quite the case. The > power-handling ability of the DC/DC is determined by the *difference* in > voltage between the two packs, times the current being transferred. > > It works the same as a buck-boost transformer. Suppose you want to buck > 240vac down to 220vac at 50 amps. The transformer doesn't need to be > 240v x 50a = 12KW -- it only needs a 240vac primary, and a (240-220) = > 20vac x 50a secondary. This secondary is connected in series with the > primary, and phased to "buck" the voltage down 20 volts. That's only 1KW > -- 12 times smaller. > > Similarly, the DC/DC needed to transfer power between two EV packs that > are nominally the same voltage only needs to handle the *difference* in > voltage between them, times the current. > > Of course, the real challenge is to handle the battery management needed > during such a charge. The EV already has the necessary fans, fusing, > balancing, and state-of-charge controls; but convincing the EV's > computers to help do this would be a bigger problem than the charging > itself. > > Best wishes, > Lee Hart > > -- > A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is > nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. > -- Antoine de Saint Exupery > -- > Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com > > -- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20211025/b53fbb91/attachment.html> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Michigan still spouting FUD. From the Detroit not so free press.
On 24 Oct 2021 at 20:23, Peter VanDerWal via EV wrote: > Were you making a joke, or did you not know that California passed such a law > 7 years ago? "Landlords are required to allow tenants to install EV charging stations" is a good thing, but it isn't the same as "requiring owners of apartments of more than, say, 4 units, to provide L2 or better EV charging points." I'm a property owner. Not that it's likely around here, but if one of my tenants said that he had an EV and wanted an EVSE for charging it, I'd pay for the installation with the understanding that the EVSE stayed with the unit when the tenant moved. I'm pretty sure that I could take depreciation deductions for it on my income tax. David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Talking about the contents of this poster is illegal. It is important that you share this information with colleagues and neighbors, and discuss it with your family. Failure to do so may lead to prosecution. For more information please reread. -- Scarfolk Council poster = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Dump/Jump charging modern EVs
My PGP public key: https://vanderwal.us/evdl_pgp.key October 24, 2021 6:19 PM, "Haudy Kazemi via EV" wrote: > I think an onboard inverter-charger would be the way to go for this kind of > thing. I'm not sure how much size/weight penalty there is (if any) for a > bidirectional inverter charger design vs charger-only design. > The onboard charger is only used for Level-1 and Level-2 charging. The CCS Combo cord (DC-Fast charging) does NOT use an onboard charger. DC fast charging typically uses a rather large offboard charger. On the vehicle side it's just a set of contactors that connect the charge cable directly to the HV battery. It might be possible to re-task the motor and controller as a large DC-DC converter, plus another set of high power contactors to connect to the Combo port. Now that I think of it, I'd guess you'd need to do something like that, since you couldn't guarantee that both vehicles would have battery packs with the same voltage, which would be required to do a direct battery to battery connection. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] was FUD
Meh, They claim installing a charger is a required expense, and then base the operating cost on solely using public charging. I would say that hardly anyone in the USA operates their EV exclusively on the high priced public chargers. Most would either use 'free' chargers, or charge at home. Many charge at home using solar, which makes the operating costs negligible. This study was about basically charging using the worse case scenario for EVs. My PGP public key: https://vanderwal.us/evdl_pgp.key October 24, 2021 8:48 AM, "Mark Abramowitz via EV" wrote: > I had to actually look (skim) at the study. It appears to be a serious look, > and is the first of a > series on the “EV transition”, so they will do more, and much of you will > have to pay for. > > They do *exclude* some costs, so it could be criticized for that, but at > least they are transparent > in their methodology. That lends itself to making intelligent criticisms > (Iike their cost numbers > on Level 1 chargers), and repeating the analysis with different assumptions. > > As far as Level 1, they acknowledge that most vehicles come with that. They > amortize the cost over > five years (seems a bit short to me, but I don’t know how often they fail). > They assume that if you > mostly charge at home, you will install Level 2, with an annual cost of $320 . > > $120/year is for level 1 - my guess is that they assume that even if you get > it with car, you are > still paying for it, though if the retail replacement cost is $600, using > that number seems > excessive. I’m guessing on this, and perhaps a closer look would provide more > clarity. But there is > nothing to prevent you from going back and subtracting out that annual cost. > > In my opinion, even if you don’t like the assumptions, if you’re into this > kind of analysis, this > is a serious effort, and worthwhile for assessing and modifying the very > detailed methodology. > > - Mark > > Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > >> On Oct 24, 2021, at 12:15 AM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV >> wrote: >> >> -- >> >> Message: 6 >> >> Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2021 17:22:08 -0700 >> >> From: Mark Abramowitz >> >> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List >> >> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Michigan still spouting FUD. From the Detroit not >> >> so free press. >> >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> I know nothing about Level 1 charger costs, so did a quick Google, found >> this: >> >> https://blog.carvana.com/2021/07/how-much-does-it-cost-to-install-an-ev-charger >> >> ? For example, the Level 1 charger costs between $300 to $600 before labor, >> which stands at about >> $1,000 to $1,700.? >> >> Is this wrong? >> >> - Mark >> >> Sent from my Fossil Fuel powered iPhone >> >> Very wrong. For one thing level one evse are standard OEM equipment that >> comes with the car. Most >> garages have a level one plug which is the same plug a cell phone, toaster >> or lamp would use. No >> one would permanently install a level one EVSE. I don't bother permanently >> installing my level 2 >> EVSE. If you needed level one they are about $175 on eBay. If you looked you >> could probably find >> one cheaper. That's why I was out when she said $600 for level 1. That is >> absurd. Lawrence Rhodes >> ___ >> Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org >> No other addresses in TO and CC fields >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive >> LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > ___ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Michigan still spouting FUD. From the Detroit not so free press.
> I think that California should pass a law requiring owners of apartments of > more than, say, 4 units, to provide L2 or better EV charging points equal to > some percentage of their complex's units. Other states should too, but CA > is one of the few that actually might do it. Were you making a joke, or did you not know that California passed such a law 7 years ago? California Legislature passed AB 2565 in 2014. Providing the rental agreement includes parking; Landlords are required to allow tenants to install EV charging stations if the unit has 5 or more parking spots, unless at least 10% of the existing parking spaces already have charging or the unit is rent controlled. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Study compares electric vehicle charge costs vs. gas ? and results were misleading Yahoo
Message: 10 Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2021 20:40:15 -0400 From: "EVDL Administrator" To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Message-ID: <6175c4af.24432.10179...@evpost.drmm.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII On 24 Oct 2021 at 22:27, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote: > Mr. Anderson and his company have 20 years-experience of consulting > with the auto industry and have been providing accurate data over that > time to many publications. >With very few exceptions, success as a consultant hinges on determining what >answer your client wants to hear, and delivering that answer. >David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey BINGO! LR ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Study compares electric vehicle charge costs vs. gas ? and results were misleading Yahoo
YEP! LR Subject: Message-ID: <7555f2a0-a320-b767-33ff-537ffc238...@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed On 10/24/21 6:27 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote: > My email conversation with Jamie the author of the article to see her > excuses/vetting.? Read from bottom to top for proper date alignment. Yahoo > Mail Lawrence, did you get the impression that you were trying to have a conversation with a post (as in fence post)?? Sadly, I think that is the? case. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
