Re: [firebird-support] Off-Topic: Firebird future

[Fulvio Senore mail...@fsoft.it [firebird-support]]

Il 23/10/2019 17:32, Stefan Heymann li...@stefanheymann.de 
[firebird-support] ha scritto:
>>> For me it must continue with the development of Flamerobin.
>>>
>>> I know many people who feel very comfortable with him.
>>>
>>> I really don't understand why its development has stopped.
> 
>> Development of a free open source project happens by virtue of its
>> contributors. If those contributors lose interest or have other things
>> to do, and no one else steps up, then things just stop.
> 
> AFAIU Milan Babuskov was the main (only?) contributor and he went on
> to do other things.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Stefan
> 

Another problem is that Flamerobin uses the IBPP library to connect to 
the database.
Unfortunately the IBPP project is abandoned: it works but it does not 
support newer Firebird features.

Fulvio Senore






++

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on the main (top) menu.  Try FAQ and other links from the left-side menu there.

Also search the knowledgebases at http://www.ibphoenix.com/resources/documents/ 

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Re: [firebird-support] Off-Topic: Firebird future

[Mark Rotteveel m...@lawinegevaar.nl [firebird-support]]

On 2019-10-23 17:32, Stefan Heymann li...@stefanheymann.de 
[firebird-support] wrote:
>>> For me it must continue with the development of Flamerobin.
>>> 
>>> I know many people who feel very comfortable with him.
>>> 
>>> I really don't understand why its development has stopped.
> 
>> Development of a free open source project happens by virtue of its
>> contributors. If those contributors lose interest or have other things
>> to do, and no one else steps up, then things just stop.
> 
> AFAIU Milan Babuskov was the main (only?) contributor and he went on
> to do other things.

There were (are?) other contributors, but with Milan leaving the drive 
went out of the project.

Mark

Re: [firebird-support] Off-Topic: Firebird future

[Stefan Heymann li...@stefanheymann.de [firebird-support]]

>> For me it must continue with the development of Flamerobin.
>> 
>> I know many people who feel very comfortable with him.
>> 
>> I really don't understand why its development has stopped.

> Development of a free open source project happens by virtue of its 
> contributors. If those contributors lose interest or have other things 
> to do, and no one else steps up, then things just stop.

AFAIU Milan Babuskov was the main (only?) contributor and he went on
to do other things.

Regards

Stefan

Re: [firebird-support] Off-Topic: Firebird future

[Mark Rotteveel m...@lawinegevaar.nl [firebird-support]]

On 2019-10-22 16:12, 'Ismael L. Donis Garcia' sli...@natio.co.cu 
[firebird-support] wrote:
> For me it must continue with the development of Flamerobin.
> 
> I know many people who feel very comfortable with him.
> 
> I really don't understand why its development has stopped.

Development of a free open source project happens by virtue of its 
contributors. If those contributors lose interest or have other things 
to do, and no one else steps up, then things just stop.

Mark

Re: [firebird-support] Off-Topic: Firebird future

[Lucas Franzen l...@frred.de [firebird-support]]

Am 22.10.2019 um 16:08 schrieb 'Martijn Tonies (Upscene Productions)' 
m.ton...@upscene.com [firebird-support]:
> I wonder, Lucas, what will you be publishing then? :)

Well the thingy we wrote.

Didn't we?

Re: [firebird-support] Off-Topic: Firebird future

['Ismael L. Donis Garcia' sli...@natio.co.cu [firebird-support]]

For me it must continue with the development of Flamerobin.

I know many people who feel very comfortable with him.

I really don't understand why its development has stopped.

Best Regards
--
Ismael
Devuan User: http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=devuan

  - Original Message - 
  From: Lucas Franzen l...@frred.de [firebird-support] 
  To: firebird-support@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2019 9:50 AM
  Subject: Re: [firebird-support] Off-Topic: Firebird future




  Am 22.10.2019 um 15:24 schrieb Stefan Heymann li...@stefanheymann.de 
  [firebird-support]:
  >>> If you want to have it for free, like in
  >>> free beer, you can sit down, write it and publish it
  >> This is the plan. ;-)
  >> Gabor
  >
  > Sounds like a good plan :-))

  Yes, I can confirm this, we tested that plan very thoroughly.

  Worked like a charm.

  Lucas



  
  Posted by: Lucas Franzen  
Reply via web post  • Reply to sender  • Reply to group  • Start a New 
Topic  • Messages in this topic (17)  

Re: [firebird-support] Off-Topic: Firebird future

['Martijn Tonies (Upscene Productions)' m.ton...@upscene.com [firebird-support]]

I wonder, Lucas, what will you be publishing then? :)



With regards,

Martijn Tonies
Upscene Productions
http://www.upscene.com

Database Workbench - developer tool for Oracle, MS SQL Server, PostgreSQL,
SQL Anywhere, MySQL, InterBase, NexusDB and Firebird.

-Original Message- 

Am 22.10.2019 um 15:24 schrieb Stefan Heymann li...@stefanheymann.de
[firebird-support]:
>>> If you want to have it for free, like in
>>> free beer, you can sit down, write it and publish it
>> This is the plan. ;-)
>> Gabor
>
> Sounds like a good plan :-))


Yes, I can confirm this, we tested that plan very thoroughly.

Worked like a charm.


Lucas




Posted by: Lucas Franzen 


++

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on the main (top) menu.  Try FAQ and other links from the left-side menu 
there.

Also search the knowledgebases at 
http://www.ibphoenix.com/resources/documents/

++


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Re: [firebird-support] Off-Topic: Firebird future

[Lucas Franzen l...@frred.de [firebird-support]]

Am 22.10.2019 um 15:24 schrieb Stefan Heymann li...@stefanheymann.de 
[firebird-support]:
>>> If you want to have it for free, like in
>>> free beer, you can sit down, write it and publish it
>> This is the plan. ;-)
>> Gabor
>
> Sounds like a good plan :-))


Yes, I can confirm this, we tested that plan very thoroughly.

Worked like a charm.


Lucas

Re: [firebird-support] Off-Topic: Firebird future

[Stefan Heymann li...@stefanheymann.de [firebird-support]]

>> If you want to have it for free, like in
>> free beer, you can sit down, write it and publish it

> This is the plan. ;-)

> Gabor


Sounds like a good plan :-))


Regards

Stefan

Re: [firebird-support] Off-Topic: Firebird future

[blackfalconsoftw...@outlook.com [firebird-support]]

Hi Alexey...
 

 I currently use the EMS SqlManager software for all my Firebird database 
administration 

 

 I have been using their software for many years for the SQL Server, MySQL, and 
PostgreSQL databases with very few issues.
 

 However, I do have an issue with the Firebird SQL error reporting system in 
that it still does not narrow down the actual issue when an error is found 
during compilation of any Firebird SQL code (ie: stored procedures).
 

 Nonetheless, offering a complete DB Administrator for Firebird with the freely 
available downloadable product would go a long way to gaining Firebird 
increased popularity.
 

 Though I see Firebird as an excellent database engine on par with all its 
equivalent engines in the commercial and Open Source sectors, I have been 
critical in the way that the development team has remained with the Open Source 
style of marketing that was prevalent in the 1990s when Open Source was just 
beginning to emerge.  Without more modern mechanisms to interact with the 
Firebird Community and a lack of professional, subscription based support for 
companies, Firebird has remained in the backwaters of the technical 
communities, which in my view is wholly unwarranted given the excellence of 
this engine.
 

This reticence on the development team's part may be based on legitimate issues 
(ie: personal work schedules).  Nonetheless, in reality, how difficult would it 
be for example to set up a Firebird Forum on one of the freely available forum 
hosting services such as ProBoards?  Such a technology implementation is fairly 
standard now with all of the database vendors.

 

 Finally, as I have also written one or two articles on the subject that 
Firebird is not all that friendly to newcomers to this engine, even technical; 
professionals with years of experience as I had.  The way in which Firebird 
implements its SQL is rather alien when compared to the other major database 
engines.  This is not in anyway to be critical of this implementation but 
documentation should be available for professionals (and hobbyists) who would 
like to migrate their databases to Firebird and need to understand the 
differences between the SQL implementations they have become used to and the 
way Firebird does it.
 

 For example, my article at the following link will describe some of the issues 
that people new to Firebird will encounter...  
https://blackfalconsoftware.wordpress.com/2018/05/11/the-firebird-database-engine-the-frustrations-of-the-long-distance-database-application-developer/
 
https://blackfalconsoftware.wordpress.com/2018/05/11/the-firebird-database-engine-the-frustrations-of-the-long-distance-database-application-developer/

 In closing, I believe that any enhancement to the way that this database 
engine is promoted, such as a freely available and complete database 
administration tool, would go a long way to securing Firebird as mainstay 
engine in the future...
 

 Steve Naidamast
 Sr. Software Engineer
 blackfalconsoftw...@outlook.com
 

 

Re: [firebird-support] Off-Topic: Firebird future

[Kevin Stanton kevin.stan...@rdb-solutions.com [firebird-support]]

That would be awesome.



> On Oct 21, 2019, at 10:29 AM, 'Alexey Kovyazin (ak)' a...@ib-aid.com 
>  [firebird-support]  > wrote:
> 
> 
> Hello Stefan,
> 
> 
> If Firebird users want to have GUI too, we should consider the options.
> The situation now is really different than several years ago, so including a 
> free GUI to Firebird umbrella now is really a option. For example, at 
> Firebird Conference there was presentation about RedExpert - GPL license, 
> multi platform, developed by contributor of Firebird and (since last week) 
> Platinum sponsor.
> I tried its beta on Linux and Windows and it worked far better than thing 
> included into Postgresql and abandoned FlameRobin.
> 
> Of course, we should discuss all aspects before making the decision. 
> 
> Regards, 
> Alexey Kovyazin 
> IBSurgeon 
> 
> 
> 
> пн, 21 окт. 2019 г., 19:24 Stefan Heymann li...@stefanheymann.de 
>  [firebird-support] 
> mailto:firebird-support@yahoogroups.com>>:
>  
> 
> > Official or not, we need a simple, up to date, Firebird only, native
> > GUI.
> 
> I don't get the point. There are GUI tools readily available
> (IBExpert, Upscene, etc.). If you want to have it for free, like in
> free beer, you can sit down, write it and publish it (that's how free
> software is made ...). The Firebird Project just doesn't have the
> resources to do it. We need the available developers for the database
> core and not for a fancy GUI tool.
> 
> Best Regards
> 
> Stefan Heymann
> 
> 
> 
> 






Thanks,
Kevin


~~~
Kevin Stanton
Software Architect
P: 541-550-5966 | F: 503-822-0178
www.RDB-Solutions.com 

 






 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [firebird-support] Off-Topic: Firebird future

[Gabor Boros mlngl...@bgss.hu [firebird-support]]

2019. 10. 21. 18:17 keltezéssel, Stefan Heymann li...@stefanheymann.de 
[firebird-support] írta:
> If you want to have it for free, like in
> free beer, you can sit down, write it and publish it


This is the plan. ;-)

Gabor






++

Visit http://www.firebirdsql.org and click the Documentation item
on the main (top) menu.  Try FAQ and other links from the left-side menu there.

Also search the knowledgebases at http://www.ibphoenix.com/resources/documents/ 

++


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Re: [firebird-support] Off-Topic: Firebird future

['Alexey Kovyazin (ak)' a...@ib-aid.com [firebird-support]]

Hello Stefan,


If Firebird users want to have GUI too, we should consider the options.
The situation now is really different than several years ago, so including
a free GUI to Firebird umbrella now is really a option. For example, at
Firebird Conference there was presentation about RedExpert - GPL license,
multi platform, developed by contributor of Firebird and (since last week)
Platinum sponsor.
I tried its beta on Linux and Windows and it worked far better than thing
included into Postgresql and abandoned FlameRobin.

Of course, we should discuss all aspects before making the decision.

Regards,
Alexey Kovyazin
IBSurgeon



пн, 21 окт. 2019 г., 19:24 Stefan Heymann li...@stefanheymann.de
[firebird-support] :

>
>
>
> > Official or not, we need a simple, up to date, Firebird only, native
> > GUI.
>
> I don't get the point. There are GUI tools readily available
> (IBExpert, Upscene, etc.). If you want to have it for free, like in
> free beer, you can sit down, write it and publish it (that's how free
> software is made ...). The Firebird Project just doesn't have the
> resources to do it. We need the available developers for the database
> core and not for a fancy GUI tool.
>
> Best Regards
>
> Stefan Heymann
>
> 
>

Re: [firebird-support] Off-Topic: Firebird future

[Stefan Heymann li...@stefanheymann.de [firebird-support]]

> Official or not, we need a simple, up to date, Firebird only, native
> GUI.

I don't get the point. There are GUI tools readily available
(IBExpert, Upscene, etc.). If you want to have it for free, like in
free beer, you can sit down, write it and publish it (that's how free
software is made ...). The Firebird Project just doesn't have the
resources to do it. We need the available developers for the database
core and not for a fancy GUI tool.

Best Regards

Stefan Heymann

Re: [firebird-support] Off-Topic: Firebird future

[Gabor Boros mlngl...@bgss.hu [firebird-support]]

2019. 10. 09. 5:57 keltezéssel, Alex Castillo acr_k...@yahoo.com 
[firebird-support] írta:
> I'm asking myself how much time I'll still be using Firebird if the 
> project evolves slow, there is no t GUI officially maintened and the 
> cool features are for the commercial companies.


Yes, slooow nowadays and no frequent point releases. 3.0.4 released one 
year ago. Official or not, we need a simple, up to date, Firebird only, 
native GUI.

Gabor






++

Visit http://www.firebirdsql.org and click the Documentation item
on the main (top) menu.  Try FAQ and other links from the left-side menu there.

Also search the knowledgebases at http://www.ibphoenix.com/resources/documents/ 

++


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Re: [firebird-support] Off-Topic: Firebird future

[liviuslivius liviusliv...@poczta.onet.pl [firebird-support]]

Hi
 
lack of GUI tool is a realy big problem, especially for newcommers.
As you have pointed flamerobin looks like abandoned project. It have some 
problems but was quite good tool.
 
But to compare Firebird to other servers like Postgress few points must be 
taken.
1. Firebird have simple instalation and its size is really small. It is simple 
to administration by novice users.
2. Firebird database file is single flat file. It is simple to backup. In 
Postgress it is some folder with number in the name and many files. Novice user 
do not know how to backup it.
3. Firebird have genius embeded version. I use it on near every webpage as i do 
not depend on preinstalled version on the provider side. I am also not limited 
in size of my database :)
   It is working on medium trust servers :)
4. I have made comparission in speed for my biggest project, with not so big 
database file. It is only 50GB. I have catch near the all sql from the system. 
And the resutls are:
   66% of sql are run faster on Postgress 34% are run faster on Firebird. One 
critical for us sql was run faster on Firebird side and it is winner for us 
here.
   I know this is specific comparisoin but i have analysed where the problems 
are.
   I describe it in next points (5..9)
5. Firebird do not have index only scans and include clause in index. This is 
the biggest lack. Because of this i have migreted ~800GB database, 
noncommercial project based on GAIA DR2 data from Firebird. Look at 
http://tracker.firebirdsql.org/browse/CORE-5909.
6. Firebird do not have parallel operations.
7. Firebird indexes are not bidirectional. You must specify asc desc. (this is 
not so big problem as you can crate both separately).
8. Firebird compound indexes cannot use parts from composite index if middle 
part is missed. E.g. 1,2,4 but 3 is missed. Postgres catch this.
9. Lack of hash/merge algorithms for outer joins. Also believe that it will be 
in FB4 :)
10. Firebird triggers and procedures are really good. I know that newcomers 
have problems with it i do not know why. Maybe something obvious is missed in 
the documentation.
11. Firebird miss some obvious feature which made me crasy. Import from CSV 
file. I have proposed simple fix for this 
http://tracker.firebirdsql.org/browse/CORE-5818 but it was rejected by the team 
as the more common/extended version is needed.
    I understand this, but more extended version will be implemented maybe in 
next 10 years but my simple proposition i suppose can be implemented in few 
days. I know it must be then maitained when more extended version will be 
avaiable. This is a know every day developer problem i understand.
12. Lack of lateral join, i believe that it will be in FB4 :)
13. Firebird have really good system monitoring. It have good trace and MON$ 
tables. I like it very much.
14. Firebird have non detailed info in query plan. Compared to other servers.
15. Firebird lack of running query plan as it depend strongly on plan gethered 
at prepare time. It cannot addapt to value provided in parameter by histogram 
use.
16. Firebird have really good CTE also recursive where you can provide almost 
every feature avaiable in normal sql.
17. Firebird have quite good support. But i suppose, team do not have dedicated 
person for this point. Compared to Interbase it is still much much better :) IB 
paid support is something what should be banned. We have migrated all projects 
from Interbase to Firebird because of this.
18. Lack of grouping sets.
19. Finally Firebird 3 is really stable for us. No problems occurred (fingers 
crossed). This is something what also cannot be missed.
 
Finally i can only say really good words about Firebird team. With such limited 
resources they do really big progress. Compare how many persons are in Firebird 
team and how many in Postgress.
The problem is that team is overloaded and new peresons also when provide pull 
requests cannot be carried by the hand from the team as team have not time and 
circle is closed.
I see that some users provide pull requests and as they looks finished stay not 
merged. 
This should be improved as such person can provide more pull requests and maybe 
in the future will be in the team as a member. Maybe not, but every brick 
counts.
E.g. https://github.com/FirebirdSQL/firebird/pull/204
 
I greet everyone warmly and i hope that the Firebird team will grow in the 
future
Karol Bieniaszewski