Re: Flash viewer for FBSD
On Sat, Mar 06, 2010 at 04:49:16AM +0100, Polytropon wrote: [SNAFU] That's the situation with Flash. And as I have experienced it, I can honestly say that I'm fine without Flash. I may review my opinion, if given some reason to do so. But as it has already been mentioned, that's a very individual decision, based upon likes and dislikes. Well, it is, indeed. Me I am very glad beeing able to do eg linux-opera -display :0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhmf4l4OxNw since I live in a Windows free zone at home. It might be a stupid example and not at all the aim of all those noble guys working on FreeBSD but, again, I am very glad they did. It might be a kind of 'Splendid Isolation' refusing things the rest of the world uses and it has its very merits but sometimes it's not bad to be part of the rest of the world. Just my 2 EURct. Sabine ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Calculating kernel/user/idle time
In freebsd-questions Digest, Vol 300, Issue 11, Message: 8 On Fri, 5 Mar 2010 16:58:20 -0600 Dan Nelson dnel...@allantgroup.com wrote: In the last episode (Mar 05), Peter Steele said: What's the proper way to calculate kernel/user/idle time? I know the raw values come from sysctl kern.cp_time, but these values need to be massaged based on the number of CPUs and so on. Can someone explain briefly what the algorithm is calculating the final percentages representing these times. They shouldn't need to be massaged. Just sample the values at two intervals, and your percentages can be calculated by dividing each delta by the sum of the deltas (since the sum equals the total CPU usage over the interval, by definition). If you want to calculate per-cpu usage, use the kern.cp_times sysctl instead. A bit over a year ago mav@ redesigned powerd's algorithm for measuring 'summary' load for multiple CPUs, as explained with revision 1.21.2.2 at http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/src/usr.sbin/powerd/powerd.c which code may prove worthwhile exploring, or stealing. cheers, Ian ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Flash viewer for FBSD
On Sat, 6 Mar 2010 09:03:58 +0100, Sabine Baer bae...@t-online.de wrote: Well, it is, indeed. Me I am very glad beeing able to do eg linux-opera -display :0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhmf4l4OxNw since I live in a Windows free zone at home. Well, there's always youtube-dl -a for that. Just for YT I don't need Flash. The need, to illustrate that, is often nothing more than a useless barrier built by people who don't seem to know better. As I said before, most things that Flash can do could be achieved with standardized (!) and free means. And often, Flash is (ab)used to do idiotic things like simply providing animated buttons. It might be a stupid example and not at all the aim of all those noble guys working on FreeBSD but, again, I am very glad they did. I am too, and I'd like to emphasize this. Without the work done to make Flash availabe on FreeBSD, I would never know how annoying it can be. If a web designer abuses (!) Flash to raise a barrier, to make content unavailable, then I am surely not his target audience. That's his decision, and I accept it. (By the way, barrier-free web and thinking about how disabled people can participate on informations is something that needs an educated point of view and some intelligence to consider it. Still, there are web developers who can't provide this, and so can't their work.) It might be a kind of 'Splendid Isolation' refusing things the rest of the world uses and it has its very merits but sometimes it's not bad to be part of the rest of the world. Erm, I don't consider rest of the world to be a reason for my decisions; in fact, they are of technical and usage nature. Just because everyone else jumps out of the window doesn't create a need for me to jump out of the window myself. :-) Honestly: If Flash would be something standardized, freely available and acceptably performant, in best case coming integrated with the browser (including an option to switch it off) - just like images are processed by Opera - then I wouldn't do what I do now: I just ignore it. With the upcoming HTML 5 standard, there's even a chance that Flash will be ignored by the rest of the world sooner or later. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Flash viewer for FBSD
On Sat, 6 Mar 2010 08:46:16 -, Graham Bentley ad...@cpcnw.co.uk wrote: Points very well made. In fact shouldn't we be campaigning against such closed source perversion of our Open Standards Internet, not complaining that one company doesn't make a media content viewer for us? In fact, if Adobe wishes NOT to provide a Flash product for the FreeBSD platform, it absolute is their right to do so. They control the format (that's why I woulnd't call Flash a standard, or an open product). On the other hand, Adobe's product is so popular because of its usage. They made successful marketing so that content providers came to the tought: This is a good product, and I need it., no matter if this really was the case. Please don't get me wrong: I don't see anything particularly bad in Flash itself, it is a quite closed product, as many others. There may even be places where it is useful, but as you will agree, animated buttons to navigate the content within a web page is *not* such place. The right that I admitted Adobe to have - to exclude me from using their techology - continues to the right of the web developer to provide content that is only viewable on an arbitrary subset of existing OS platforms. Let me come back to my stupid JPG image viewer plugin. Why is Flash so complicated? Why does a plugin that does so very little (measured in how it is actually used, as I said, for displaying video or animating buttons) seem to hook into the system and even its kernel so deeply that it's really hard work to make it run on an unsupported platform? Imagine that JPG images could only be viewed on x86-64 with 2.5GHz and more. That would be idiotic. And of course, there's always the race after the most recent version of the JPG plugin, because every year there will be a new, incompatible format. But because Flash is considered modern technology, it is heavily employed to create the stuff that is consumed on the Internet most: Games (and the thing with P and three further letters). And within a free and environment such as the Internet, that what is required by the masses will be produced, even if the masses wish to stick with proprietary and dangerous stuff. This is exactly why Stallman harks on about freedoms etc it almost feels pathetic; Please Mr Adobe, we poor FreeBSD users don't have a flash viewer, please make one for us too bleat bleat If they don't want to make one, there's no way to convince them. Since the majority of free and standardized operating systems isn't oriented at market share, there is no reason for Adobe to follow a crying Please! :-) The only content I 'miss' is occasional utube vids ; No probs. Download as .flv and play with mplayer. That's right - and works perfectly. Even for stand-alone Flash games, there's the swfplayer program. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Flash viewer for FBSD
Pongthep Kulkrisada ptkris...@gmail.com wrote: * Warren Block (wbl...@wonkity.com) wrote: When you upgrade from 7.x to 8.x, it's necessary to rebuild *all* ports. ... Some people only use console, they should rebuild all ports relating to their work. They do not have to rebuild KDE or GNOME, for example. Instructions like rebuild *all* ports mean rebuild *all* ports that you have installed on your system. No one expects you to build every port in the tree, unless your system is pointyhat :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Flash viewer for FBSD
On Fri, 5 Mar 2010 23:02:36 -, Graham Bentley ad...@cpcnw.co.uk wrote: It looks very bad for browsing web without flash viewer. I think it looks great - no ads !!! Hurray !!! I may politely add that exactly this is the reason I removed a working Flash support from my system. I rather like to see empty plug-in content boxes instead of being annoyed by Flash stuff that is mainly used for advertising. Have you noticed that Flash has taken the place of animated GIFs, adding sound and providing nothing that couldn't be done using existing standards? I'm sure you have. A growing part of today's web designers seem to have accepted Flash as a replacement for valid HTML, and even for invalid HTML. Have you ever heared of a modern web browser that forces you to install, let's say, a plugin for viewing JPG images, and this plugin is only available for an arbitrary chosen subset of operating systems, and loaded with patents and other cripple-stuff? And it forces you to have an up-to-date computer, of course, with an expensive OS (free OSes are out of scope already). And all the clever web designers now replace their working sites with JPG - even the text is given as a JPG image. And it is assumed that you have the plugin installed. And of course, there's a new version of the plugin every year. All this just to view a JPG image. Could you imagine such a stupid situation? It's so idiotic, but it's the reality. That's the situation with Flash. And as I have experienced it, I can honestly say that I'm fine without Flash. I may review my opinion, if given some reason to do so. But as it has already been mentioned, that's a very individual decision, based upon likes and dislikes. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... Points very well made. In fact shouldn't we be campaigning against such closed source perversion of our Open Standards Internet, not complaining that one company doesn't make a media content viewer for us? This is exactly why Stallman harks on about freedoms etc it almost feels pathetic; Please Mr Adobe, we poor FreeBSD users don't have a flash viewer, please make one for us too bleat bleat The only content I 'miss' is occasional utube vids ; No probs. Download as .flv and play with mplayer. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: can't bring ath0 up
Leslie Jensen wrote: If it's a wireless you need to set wlan0 as described in the handbook. This is new from version 8. The handbook hasn't been updated yet, but the man page for ath has all the details: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=ath These commands work for me: ifconfig wlan0 create wlandev ath0 wlanmode hostap ifconfig wlan0 inet 192.168.0.1 mode 11g channel 2 ssid freebsdap - Colin Brace Amsterdam http://lim.nl -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/can%27t-bring-ath0-up-tp27734134p27802878.html Sent from the freebsd-questions mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: freebsd install from floppy
Piotr Lukawski plukaw...@googlemail.com wrote: ... I really cannot understand why nobody can change just one parameter and put the file in a proper place in ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.org/pub/FreeBSD/releases/i386/8.0-RELEASE/floppies/ I seem to remember something about the floppy images being dropped because few current (or even recent) systems have a floppy drive at all, much less a bootable one. I sure hope they don't start applying the same reasoning to drivers for old-ish devices. Some of us do not rush out and acquire the latest/greatest whiz-giz every few months just because it's available. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Thousands of ssh probes
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 06/03/2010 06:33:53, Ian Smith wrote: In freebsd-questions Digest, Vol 300, Issue 10, Message: 6 On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 16:07:29 + Matthew Seaman m.sea...@infracaninophile.co.uk wrote: On 05/03/2010 15:51:52, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: The spamtrap is a shiny object for spam, and anything that goes there gets blocked for an hour from hitting the low port. I presented this at a conference once. Having an IPv6-only high-mx seems to terminally confuse most spambots... I understand why IPv6 would confuse them, but don't follow why higher numbered MXs would be more attractive to them in the first place? Are they assuming a 'secondary' MX will be more likely to accept spam? Yes. Generally a high-numbered MX is more trusted than the run-of- the-mill internet by the actual mail server (lowest numbered MX)[*], so forwarding between MXes tends to bypass chunks of anti-spam protection. The high-numbered MX itself is usually a pretty low importance system at a location remote from all the rest of the mail servers, so it tends to have less effective anti-spam protection. Thus spammers ignore the normal MX priority rules and just attempt to inject spam through the highest numbered MX, because it is more likely to get through. On the whole, I don't see the value in having a high-numbered MX to dumbly accept, queue and forward messages like this. It doesn't really add any resilience: the SMTP protocol is intrinsically all about store and forward, and if a message cannot be delivered immediately, the sending side will keep it in a queue for up to 5 days anyhow. Low priority MXes make some sense for load shedding, but realistically as part of a cluster of servers at one site. If you want resilience against network outages, then you're going to have to provide a resilient solution for /reading/ the e-mails too, and that's a whole different ball game. Cheers, Matthew [*] Even if the low-priority MXes are treated as untrusted, you've still got the whole backscatter problem to consider. - -- Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 7 Priory Courtyard Flat 3 PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate Kent, CT11 9PW -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.14 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkuSIgcACgkQ8Mjk52CukIxQEQCffVtAHVHs5u58+Sz0SIZlDM0Q 0pYAoJD8d6Tyd6xypSbx0Z/3qmScmbeR =VCWG -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: freebsd install from floppy
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 06/03/2010 09:26:22, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: I seem to remember something about the floppy images being dropped because few current (or even recent) systems have a floppy drive at all, much less a bootable one. Yeah, but the floppy disk drive was already obsolete 10 years ago. It's just taken this long for it to fall down dead. Good riddance to it. Why would anyone want an unreliable, slow and tiny capacity device when you can get GiB capacity USB sticks everywhere nowadays? Not providing floppy disk installation images doesn't imply dropping kernel support for floppy drives. My ancient system has a floppy, and if I blew the dust out of it and could find some media it should work just fine with FreeBSD 8.0. In fact, if you need to support older equipment, free OSes like FreeBSD are really your only choice. Drivers for old devices tend to stick around in the source tree for much longer than in any commercial offering. They might suffer from bit-rot due to lack of developer access to samples of kit, but if you really need something like that fixed you probably could get patches. In fact, I think the primary reason for dropping old device drivers is usually because they don't receive any attention during the occasional code refactoring that occurs: no one complains, and the device sits around unusable or needing special backwards compatibility shims for a while, then gets quietly deleted. - -- Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 7 Priory Courtyard Flat 3 PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate Kent, CT11 9PW -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.14 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkuSJl4ACgkQ8Mjk52CukIxSWACfSkJ6k09ig0sR5lctO7tooF1k NnUAnRrWUeDMssvWDx7rvzMgPWb3fHSw =3zRd -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Flash viewer for FBSD
On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 11:53 PM, Jerry ges...@yahoo.com wrote: Adobe, a commercial entity, obviously feels that the cost of supporting the FreeBSD community is not a financially prudent business venture. Well, that's their decision, of course. However, Linux and FreeBSD aren't so far apart either, at least on the API level. After all, they ARE more or less POSIX systems. It shouldn't be too hard for Adobe to tweak their Linux or Solaris Flash port so that it compiles cleanly on FreeBSD too. How complicated could that be? We're adapting software in /usr/ports all the time, and that's no black magic either. IIRC, there was a thread a while ago about what Adobe expects of FreeBSD so that they can port their Flash player -- or was that NVIDIA? I don't remember exactly what they needed though... Maybe something about memory mapping? Hmmm... In the finally analysis, it is their product to do with as they see fit, unless the socialist EC starts to stick their fascist nose into someone else's business. Adobe never stated that they would support FreeBSD; at least as far as I can tell. That would sort of eliminate any pseudo Breach of Contract accusation against them. If they provided an obscure product, or a product for which alternatives existed, EC wouldn't care. But with near-monopoly of an increasingly ubiquitous format comes great responsibility. In the eyes of the EC, a company shouldn't be allowed to abuse their monopolistic power to lock out competitors. IMHO, they are quite right on this point, though you are free to disagree. ;-) -- Jerry ges...@yahoo.com -cpghost. -- Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Flash viewer for FBSD
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 9:25 AM, Polytropon free...@edvax.de wrote: On Sat, 6 Mar 2010 09:03:58 +0100, Sabine Baer bae...@t-online.de wrote: Well, it is, indeed. Me I am very glad beeing able to do eg linux-opera -display :0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhmf4l4OxNw since I live in a Windows free zone at home. Well, there's always youtube-dl -a for that. Just for YT I don't need Flash. That's true. I love youtube-dl too, as it helps me keep a local .flv copy, even for videos that have been removed for one reason or another. However, there are other video sites like dailymotion. What downloader do you use for these? And remember, youtube-dl is a hack. It can break anytime YT changes its embedding. I wished YouTube would switch to HTML5, or at least added this as an option. The need, to illustrate that, is often nothing more than a useless barrier built by people who don't seem to know better. As I said before, most things that Flash can do could be achieved with standardized (!) and free means. And often, Flash is (ab)used to do idiotic things like simply providing animated buttons. I've talked with the IT department of a company recently who had to switch from perfectly usable barrier-less HTML to Flash. Actually, the IT guys didn't want to, but their management was adamant. The main reason wasn't buttons or little animations, but something much more mundane: the graphics design company they hired to create their new corporate identity insisted that the only way to get a 100% pixel-precise layout was with Flash... and management fell for it. Basically, they wanted to duplicate their glossy brochures 1:1, and didn't care about reduced usability and accessibility. Incredibly silly move, but their company, their decision. With the upcoming HTML 5 standard, there's even a chance that Flash will be ignored by the rest of the world sooner or later. HTML 5 isn't the problem, that will be easy to implement. It's about picking the right video codec. There's no high quality codec available that is both ubiquitous in hardware, and unencumbered by patents. Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... -cpghost. -- Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Flash viewer for FBSD
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 10:01 AM, Polytropon free...@edvax.de wrote: If they don't want to make one, there's no way to convince them. Since the majority of free and standardized operating systems isn't oriented at market share, there is no reason for Adobe to follow a crying Please! :-) There is only one way to convince them: through legislation! You may live in a world of bliss where you can access your online bank via standardized HTML, where you can fill in your IRS (or equivalent) forms, various applications etc. without Flash, but many parts of the world are a lot more dependent on Flash. Of course, one can always send complaints to those banks and public services who use Flash-only interfaces, but those complaints usually get ignored and thrown in the grey dumpster. If you try to escalate your complaint, the letter goes from the grey into the red dumpster, but you're still effectively locked out. That's the problem with near-monopolies of proprietary formats: sometimes you can't escape them and have to resort to tricks (like emulations etc...) to make them work. -cpghost. -- Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Flash viewer for FBSD
On Sat, 6 Mar 2010 12:07:25 +0100, C. P. Ghost cpgh...@cordula.ws wrote: That's true. I love youtube-dl too, as it helps me keep a local .flv copy, even for videos that have been removed for one reason or another. A very useful feature, especially for offline operations. However, there are other video sites like dailymotion. What downloader do you use for these? None, because I don't know / need other sites that steal my time by providing useless videos. :-) And remember, youtube-dl is a hack. It can break anytime YT changes its embedding. That's what make update is used for. :-) I wished YouTube would switch to HTML5, or at least added this as an option. This may happen in the future. YT is one of the main promoters for Flash as a means to provide video contents. I've talked with the IT department of a company recently who had to switch from perfectly usable barrier-less HTML to Flash. The IT department? Shouldn't this be the responsibility of the department providing the content to be published on the web? Actually, the IT guys didn't want to, but their management was adamant. Oh yeah, management. Market share. All new. Revolutionary. Leverage. I could go on for hours. :-) The main reason wasn't buttons or little animations, but something much more mundane: the graphics design company they hired to create their new corporate identity insisted that the only way to get a 100% pixel-precise layout was with Flash... and management fell for it. If I hear pixel precise... Why don't they provide the content COMPLETELY as PNG images without compression? That would be really 1:1. Basically, they wanted to duplicate their glossy brochures 1:1, and didn't care about reduced usability and accessibility. In this case, my opinion would be: If they don't care, than I don't care supporting them by investing attention on them. They don't deserve it. Incredibly silly move, but their company, their decision. Their right. If they want to lose customers (idea: the more people you exclude from the content, the more potential customers you lose). But I agree: Absolutely idiotic. Let's see how much fun they will have when Adobe changes something in their Flash format - then everything needs to be re-done. :-) HTML 5 isn't the problem, that will be easy to implement. It's about picking the right video codec. There's no high quality codec available that is both ubiquitous in hardware, and unencumbered by patents. That's true. I didn't want to hide that. A free, open and standardized video codec, capable of carrying video and audio information and providing streaming the content, while being compatible with HTML, and being able to be used in every country, would be a good solution. It HAS to be supported out of the box, at least in terms of web browsers (like the thing inside the browser that displays JPG images, to follow my example). -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: freebsd install from floppy
In many situations, especially for and old or non standard equipment floppies are the best or even the only solution. Actually if I haven't found the solution to use floppy to install FreeBSD, I would be forced to use another system eg. OpenBSD instead, even if I prefer FreeBSD. The decision to make floppies obsolete is very bad, because it is still needed by many people. On 6 March 2010 10:54, Matthew Seaman m.sea...@infracaninophile.co.ukwrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 06/03/2010 09:26:22, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: I seem to remember something about the floppy images being dropped because few current (or even recent) systems have a floppy drive at all, much less a bootable one. Yeah, but the floppy disk drive was already obsolete 10 years ago. It's just taken this long for it to fall down dead. Good riddance to it. Why would anyone want an unreliable, slow and tiny capacity device when you can get GiB capacity USB sticks everywhere nowadays? Not providing floppy disk installation images doesn't imply dropping kernel support for floppy drives. My ancient system has a floppy, and if I blew the dust out of it and could find some media it should work just fine with FreeBSD 8.0. In fact, if you need to support older equipment, free OSes like FreeBSD are really your only choice. Drivers for old devices tend to stick around in the source tree for much longer than in any commercial offering. They might suffer from bit-rot due to lack of developer access to samples of kit, but if you really need something like that fixed you probably could get patches. In fact, I think the primary reason for dropping old device drivers is usually because they don't receive any attention during the occasional code refactoring that occurs: no one complains, and the device sits around unusable or needing special backwards compatibility shims for a while, then gets quietly deleted. - -- Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 7 Priory Courtyard Flat 3 PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate Kent, CT11 9PW -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.14 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkuSJl4ACgkQ8Mjk52CukIxSWACfSkJ6k09ig0sR5lctO7tooF1k NnUAnRrWUeDMssvWDx7rvzMgPWb3fHSw =3zRd -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Flash viewer for FBSD
On Sat, 6 Mar 2010 12:15:37 +0100, C. P. Ghost cpgh...@cordula.ws wrote: On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 10:01 AM, Polytropon free...@edvax.de wrote: If they don't want to make one, there's no way to convince them. Since the majority of free and standardized operating systems isn't oriented at market share, there is no reason for Adobe to follow a crying Please! :-) There is only one way to convince them: through legislation! Legislation won't influence economy - it's the other way round. Sadly. On a free market, the masses dictate what will happen. And if the masses don't WANT to be free, their freedom will be taken off them. Freedom of choice? No, you better go with what we provide you, because that's the best for you. And now shut up and buy our crap! :-) You may live in a world of bliss where you can access your online bank via standardized HTML, where you can fill in your IRS (or equivalent) forms, various applications etc. without Flash, but many parts of the world are a lot more dependent on Flash. In the context you've mentioned, I would have thought of Java in the first place, not Flash. And I know that there are whole branches of economy that are trapped in the Flash problem - once you're in, you're convinced that you can't get out. (There are other problems like this.) As a pure private person, I can be lucky not to depend on Flash, and not have to be told that I'm using the wrong operating system. I know that not everyone is that lucky. Of course, one can always send complaints to those banks and public services who use Flash-only interfaces, but those complaints usually get ignored and thrown in the grey dumpster. If you try to escalate your complaint, the letter goes from the grey into the red dumpster, but you're still effectively locked out. Yes. That's the problem with near-monopolies of proprietary formats: sometimes you can't escape them and have to resort to tricks (like emulations etc...) to make them work. I agree, but I'd like to emphasize that those tricks are always a good chance for migration, such as I have predicted, seen, experienced and done it with OpenOffice. The growing interest in heterogenous IT environments where interoperability is important will help to make the decision carriers aware of how to decide: Go with open standards and continue work, or stick with proprietary and closed products and have a surprise from time to time (such as We can't open our documents anymore! or This has to be rewritten!) If you work with standards, then interoperability, compatibility and transition is no big deal. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Pinnacle nanostick 73e on FreeBSD, possible?
I'm curious if it's possible to get a pinnacle nanostick 73e to work with Freebsd. When inserted /var/log/messages repports the following root: Unknown USB device: vendor 0x2304 product 0x0237 bus uhub7 kernel: ugen7.2: Pinnacle at usbus7 /Leslie ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: freebsd install from floppy
On Sat, 6 Mar 2010 12:24:30 +0100, Piotr Lukawski plukaw...@googlemail.com wrote: In many situations, especially for and old or non standard equipment floppies are the best or even the only solution. [...] The decision to make floppies obsolete is very bad, because it is still needed by many people. Sometimes you simply stick with systems that just work, even if they are 10 years old - and older. So a machine with no USB support can likely exist. It gets even more interesting if you need to read and write floppies to keep computer systems alive for a museum (see 5,25 floppies). Sometimes, a floppy is completely sufficient and easy to use, e. g. when transfering some config files to a system without network and USB; the tar utility can be used to directly operate on floppies, which is very useful, and maybe even faster than using USB (device detection, mounting etc.). So when booting via CD, USB or network isn't possible, what are the options? Okay, with FreeBSD, you can extract the hard disk, place it into a different computer and then install the OS there; retransfer the hard disk to the original computer and everything should work from now on. (Special hardware may require additional configuration, but the base system doesn't care on what kind of hardware it is running, basically.) The reason to still use such old systems can be very different, for example just works is one of the main reasons. Others may include accurate and reliable working, or less power consumption. (One thing that I could observe over the years: The older hardware is, the longer it works - mostly.) Another reason could be the idea of resisting to buy something new that does the same as the old stuff, an action that costs money and creates electronic waste. I still have such a system which I keep for nostalgia mostly: It introduced me to FreeBSD: A 150MHz P1 with 128 MB SDR-SDRAM, SCSI CD (which I can't boot from), no USB, but Ethernet (which I also can't boot from), and it's in a perfect condition, still usable as a workstation. It does nearly everything my current workstation (P4, 2GHz) can do, and some of the things even faster. I'm sure most of you can't even imagine that. :-) FreeBSD has always impressed me by providing working (!) drivers for older stuff that still works, e. g. SCSI PCI cards, SCSI scanners and PD drives. Most hardware works out of the box, and for very special cases, there are modules or kernel options. And why use FreeBSD? Because it runs faster on the same hardware with every new release. That's something other operating systems can't do. Settings where you update your software, then need to update your hardware, and then still don't feel that anything is faster at all, are known. If floppy images aren't included on the install CD / DVD or via FTP, then at least there should be a simple means to generate them, e. g. make floppies. I wouldn't like to see floppies disappear for, let's say, the next 10 years, as much as I dislike floppy media per se. By the way, their form factor is superior to CDs and DVDs in every concern! Give the world a rewritable optical media the size of a Minidisc and the world is yours. I don't like the idea that I need a drive with the size of a full-featured computer to use media that dissolves chemically and gets unreadable if touched with the finger on the wrong side. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Flash viewer for FBSD
On Fri, Mar 05, 2010 at 12:14:15PM +0700, Pongthep Kulkrisada wrote: Hi all, I have been using FBSD since 5.4 until now 8.0. Mostly, I use it as a server and coding C (as my hobby). All the time I stay in console without fancy of any GUI. For GUI applications, I mostly use Windows. Now I want to use only FBSD for web browsing and don't want to use Windows. I installed FBSD 7.1 with KDE 3.5 from CD. Then I csup(ed) and buildworld to FBSD 7.2 and then finally FBSD 8.0 while remaining KDE unchanged. I use opera-10.10 for web browsing. The problem is that ``flash viewer'' is not installed. I don't know whether someone has said it already. Whenever you have a problem look first in the Handbook to see whether the issue is addressed there. Concerning the flash viewer: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/desktop-browsers.html Harald ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Booting MFS from Secondary Partition
Fbsd1 writes: just dd the image to what ever drive you want That is the goal. The challenge is to launch a script that detects when the boot device has been unmounted as dd will not work on an active file system. Memory disk images apparently survive until reboot so there is a possibility that one can get in the write between the umount of everything and complete shutdown. I am truly impressed with how robust FreeBSD is as it probably should be very hard to log in to a working system and remotely rebuild it. I did read one of many introductory articles about mfsbsd that tells you to just use scp to get the image over to the target system and then, as root, use dd to apply it to the boot device. That is not possible unless one first boots from some other medium. Martin McCormick ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: amd64 won't install on Core Duo
What system board revision does you're Thinkpad have? You can use CPU-Z (http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php) to check on this. The revision 3 and above system boards can run 64bit OS's. Also if you're CPU is one of the following a a BIOS upgrade/setting may enable the full set of processor features : SL9K4 2.33 GHzT2700 2 667 MHz 65 nm D0 2 MB Micro-FCBGA N/A SL9JN 2.16 GHzT2600 2 667 MHz 65 nm D0 2 MB Micro-FCPGA N/A SL8VS 2.16 GHzT2600 2 667 MHz 65 nm C0 2 MB Micro-FCBGA N/A SL9K3 2.16 GHzT2600 2 667 MHz 65 nm D0 2 MB Micro-FCBGA N/A SL9EH 2 GHz T2500 2 667 MHz 65 nm D0 2 MBMicro-FCPGA N/A SL8VP 2 GHz T2500 2 667 MHz 65 nm C0 2 MBMicro-FCPGA N/A SL9K2 2 GHz T2500 2 667 MHz 65 nm D0 2 MBMicro-FCBGA N/A SL9JU 1.83 GHzL2500 2 667 MHz 65 nm D0 2 MB Micro-FCBGA N/A SL8VU 1.83 GHzT2400 2 667 MHz 65 nm C0 2 MB Micro-FCBGA N/A SL9JZ 1.83 GHzT2400 2 667 MHz 65 nm D0 2 MB Micro-FCBGA N/A SL9JM 1.83 GHzT2400 2 667 MHz 65 nm D0 2 MB Micro-FCPGA N/A SL8VW 1.66 GHzL2400 2 667 MHz 65 nm C0 2 MB Micro-FCBGA N/A SL8VV 1.66 GHzT2300 2 667 MHz 65 nm C0 2 MB Micro-FCBGA N/A SL9JT 1.66 GHzL2400 2 667 MHz 65 nm D0 2 MB Micro-FCBGA N/A SL9JL 1.66 GHzT2300 2 667 MHz 65 nm D0 2 MB Micro-FCPGA N/A SL9JS 1.50 GHzL2300 2 667 MHz 65 nm C0 2 MB Micro-FCBGA N/A SL8VX 1.50 GHzL2300 2 667 MHz 65 nm C0 2 MB Micro-FCBGA N/A SL99V 1.20 GHzU2500 2 533 MHz 65 nm C0 2 MB Micro-FCBGA N/A SL99W 1.06 GHzU2400 2 533 MHz 65 nm C0 2 MB Micro-FCBGA N/A On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 2:28 AM, Chad Perrin per...@apotheon.com wrote: The amd64 arch installer for 8.0-RELEASE fails to start on a ThinkPad T60 with an Intel Centrino Core Duo. What am I doing wrong? error message: CPU doesn't support long mode -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] -- Opportunity is most often missed by people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. Thomas Alva Edison Inventor of 1093 patents, including: The light bulb, phonogram and motion pictures. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: xorg, xdm, desktop env
Polytropon writes: A small addition: In order to be able to use X with an initialisation file even when not using XDM (i. e. starting X by startx) AND not having to maintain two startup files (.xsession and .xinitrc) AND furthermore incorporating shell settings for the shell of choice (default: the C shell), you can use this approach: Perhaps since I don't run xdm from ttys (having been bit by that in the past), I have for years simply linked one to the other. Works fine, and saves having to remember to update one when the other changes. There are no negatives I know about. Robert Huff ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Flash viewer for FBSD
On Mar 5, 2010, at 11:35 PM, Pongthep Kulkrisada wrote: * Warren Block (wbl...@wonkity.com) wrote: When you upgrade from 7.x to 8.x, it's necessary to rebuild *all* ports. Thanks for your suggestion, but it does not seem likely. All operating systems can always distinguish the system and packages. For instance, gcc is tightly coupled with the system, it will be upgraded automatically while upgrading the system. Some people only use console, they should rebuild all ports relating to their work. They do not have to rebuild KDE or GNOME, for example. I myself, after upgrading the system, I always rebuild MOST of textual ports like vim, fetchmail, apache, etc and all ports required by them. For GUI application, I keep updating ONLY web browser because the old version is usually prone to vulnerability issues. If it is not enough, please tell me. :-) Yes, it's not enough. When you upgrade the base OS to a new major version (ie, going from 7.x to 8.x), the system libraries get bumped to a new version, but any libraries coming from ports are still linked against the older version of the frameworks. If you don't touch anything, backwards compatibility for 7.x will continue to work fine, but as soon as you start installing something new or upgrade any port, you run into the situation where executables are linked against two different versions of libc.so (etc) and they break. For all practical purposes, if you upgrade to a new major version, then you must rebuild all installed ports. Regards, -- -Chuck ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Flash viewer for FBSD
Polytropon writes: And remember, youtube-dl is a hack. It can break anytime YT changes its embedding. That's what make update is used for. :-) More importantly, it's about the author (and maintainer, if they're different) fixing things promptly after a change, My experience has been 2-3 days. Robert Huff ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
In Need of Some Extra Cash?
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-STABLE vs security branches, was: Flash viewer for FBSD
On Mar 6, 2010, at 1:57 AM, Pongthep Kulkrisada wrote: So your system is approx. 4 months old, despite you cvsup-ping? I don't know what do you mean. Normally, FBSD issues new STABLE RELEASE once a year (approx). Whenever new release or new branch is available, I shall do either wget iso images, or cvsup/csup and buildworld. The time between RELEASEs, there are patches. But FBSD teams stated that those patches are not well tested comparing to RELEASE. So I do not update the system until new STABLE RELEASE is available again. Things going into -CURRENT may not be well tested, but anything being merged back to -STABLE ought to be. Humans make mistakes, but I can't recall more than two or maybe three significant issues over a decade tracking -STABLE, and these were fixed in a matter of hours. If you do care about this level of precision, you should be building to a test platform and then running sanity checks for whatever your machines do before upgrading production boxes, anyway. Beyond that, however, you ought to consider tracking the security branch, ie, RELENG_8_0, rather than 8-STABLE aka RELENG_8, as the former does include recommended changes like security bugfixes, but avoids merging in anything which has not been well tested. Regards, -- -Chuck ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Flash viewer for FBSD
Chuck Swiger writes: For all practical purposes, if you upgrade to a new major version, then you must rebuild all installed ports. And if you have the time and knowledge to not have to do this ... you're probably not involved in the discussion to begin with. :-) Robert Huff ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Flash viewer for FBSD
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 2:54 PM, Robert Huff roberth...@rcn.com wrote: And remember, youtube-dl is a hack. It can break anytime YT changes its embedding. That's what make update is used for. :-) More importantly, it's about the author (and maintainer, if they're different) fixing things promptly after a change, My experience has been 2-3 days. Which is pretty good... esp. considering that some ports take months or more to get updated, esp. when security concerns pop up (*cough* java/jdk16 *cough*) ;-) But the point is, that even the author is no magician: should YT decide to switch to a completely different scheme, reverse- engineering that could prove very hard and up to impossible. We're lucky to have youtube-dl, and I hope author and maintainer will keep updating it as often as possible, as they do now. Robert Huff -cpghost. -- Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Thousands of ssh probes
On Mar 6, 2010, at 4:36 AM, Matthew Seaman wrote: Having an IPv6-only high-mx seems to terminally confuse most spambots... I understand why IPv6 would confuse them, but don't follow why higher numbered MXs would be more attractive to them in the first place? Are they assuming a 'secondary' MX will be more likely to accept spam? Yes. Generally a high-numbered MX is more trusted than the run-of- the-mill internet by the actual mail server (lowest numbered MX)[*], so forwarding between MXes tends to bypass chunks of anti-spam protection. The high-numbered MX itself is usually a pretty low importance system at a location remote from all the rest of the mail servers, so it tends to have less effective anti-spam protection. Thus spammers ignore the normal MX priority rules and just attempt to inject spam through the highest numbered MX, because it is more likely to get through. While this is undoubtedly true in some cases, you're offering too much credit to the spammers for other cases. :-) There are spambots which simply scan through IPv4 address space trying to talk to port 25, and they attempt to deliver the same spam (or some template put through an obfuscator which adds random text) to a list of usernames, regardless of MX records. Some try to deliver to unqualified addresses (ie, rcpt to: cswiger); others do a reverse lookup of each address and append the domain name to the addresses. It's pretty easy to notice this when you've got a bunch of IPs setup on different domains. Anyway, for personal domains, you can setup teergrubes on both high and low numbered MX records, which delay but never accept mail, and have your real mailserver in the middle. Unfortunately, there are so many broken SMTP servers out there, which don't retry delivery to all MX hosts, that a fair amount of legitimate email will be lost-- you can't realistically do this for normal users. On the whole, I don't see the value in having a high-numbered MX to dumbly accept, queue and forward messages like this. It doesn't really add any resilience: the SMTP protocol is intrinsically all about store and forward, and if a message cannot be delivered immediately, the sending side will keep it in a queue for up to 5 days anyhow. The two main uses are: 1) If your primary MX is where delivery happens, and it goes down or is otherwise unavailable for a while, you can do an ETRN against the secondary(-ies) and get all of the queued mail relatively immediately once you fix the issue. If you have drastic problems (ie, a box goes down permanently and you can't get a replacement up in less than a week due to shipping time), you can even have your secondary queue email for longer than the default 5 days if that becomes necessary. 2) Domains without permanent network connectivity: http://www.postfix.org/ETRN_README.html Regards, -- -Chuck ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Thousands of ssh probes
On Sat, 6 Mar 2010, Matthew Seaman wrote: On 06/03/2010 06:33:53, Ian Smith wrote: In freebsd-questions Digest, Vol 300, Issue 10, Message: 6 On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 16:07:29 + Matthew Seaman m.sea...@infracaninophile.co.uk wrote: On 05/03/2010 15:51:52, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: The spamtrap is a shiny object for spam, and anything that goes there gets blocked for an hour from hitting the low port. I presented this at a conference once. Having an IPv6-only high-mx seems to terminally confuse most spambots... I understand why IPv6 would confuse them, but don't follow why higher numbered MXs would be more attractive to them in the first place? Are they assuming a 'secondary' MX will be more likely to accept spam? Yes. Generally a high-numbered MX is more trusted than the run-of- the-mill internet by the actual mail server (lowest numbered MX)[*], so forwarding between MXes tends to bypass chunks of anti-spam protection. The high-numbered MX itself is usually a pretty low importance system at a location remote from all the rest of the mail servers, so it tends to have less effective anti-spam protection. Thus spammers ignore the normal MX priority rules and just attempt to inject spam through the highest numbered MX, because it is more likely to get through. Makes sense. Since I wrote that, some repressed memories surfaced .. On the whole, I don't see the value in having a high-numbered MX to dumbly accept, queue and forward messages like this. It doesn't really add any resilience: the SMTP protocol is intrinsically all about store and forward, and if a message cannot be delivered immediately, the sending side will keep it in a queue for up to 5 days anyhow. Low priority MXes make some sense for load shedding, but realistically as part of a cluster of servers at one site. If you want resilience against network outages, then you're going to have to provide a resilient solution for /reading/ the e-mails too, and that's a whole different ball game. Indeed. About 10 years ago when we ran a few domains on a 56k modem link with a secondary MX on $bigisp, woke up one day to find we were being DoS'd by some 90,000 big email from some marketing outfit via the unfiltered secondary MX. Had to cancel that on the spot to chuck them away or spend days doing nothing else; haven't bothered using one since. Cheers, Matthew [*] Even if the low-priority MXes are treated as untrusted, you've still got the whole backscatter problem to consider. Yea; another nightmare system 'inherited' had a qmail frontend accepting everything thrown at it, even for invalid usernames, passing it to a backend system to sort and sift through it and yes, generate something like 95% backscatter, mostly bound for nowhere. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot .. still getting resultant tryhard attempts 18 months after getting sendmail going - spambots have long memories! Thanks for the clear explanation, Ian ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Can't install octave
On Friday 05 of March 2010 17:09:56 Pietro Cerutti wrote: On 2010-Mar-05, 16:47, Jan Henrik Sylvester wrote: There has been one more commit on that port: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/ports/x11-toolkits/fltk/files/patch -src_filename_list.cxx.diff?r1=1.4;r2=1.5;f=h That one looks suspicious because (__FreeBSD_version = 73) make the clauses before obsolete. Before that commit, the condition was true for 8-STABLE and 9-CURRENT, but not for 8.0-RELEASE or 7-ANYTHING. The commit was supposed to fix 7.3-RELEASE (and probably 7-STABLE) but changed the behavior for 8.0-RELEASE, too, which probably has not been intended. Good catch! Fixed, thanks! Thank you all. Now is OK. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Debug still in kernel
Hello all, I am currently tracking RELENG_8_0. I did a csup last night and noticed that debug is still enabled in the GENERIC kernel. I thought debugging was supposed to be left out once the 8 branch went RELEASE? Can anyone shed light on this subject? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Thousands of ssh probes
Matthew == Matthew Seaman m.sea...@infracaninophile.co.uk writes: Matthew On the whole, I don't see the value in having a high-numbered MX to Matthew dumbly accept, queue and forward messages like this. High-numbered MX came from a time where an internal machine could only be delivered from outside via an external gateway. If you want to deliver to internal.example.com, you tried its lowest MX first, and failing to connect, you fall back to the next MX, external.example.com. The idea is that external.example.com would then be able to see the next hop, and forward the mail. The modern recommendation is to avoid MX altogether, and rely on split-horizon DNS and SMTP delivery reattempts. But a lot of people are still stuck in the old ways. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 mer...@stonehenge.com URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/ Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: amd64 won't install on Core Duo
On Sat, Mar 06, 2010 at 03:19:31PM +0200, Ross Cameron wrote: What system board revision does you're Thinkpad have? You can use CPU-Z (http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php) to check on this. That looks like a handy tool. Is there a version that will run on FreeBSD? -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] pgpjj5iP9Eea4.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: amd64 won't install on Core Duo
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 5:42 PM, Chad Perrin per...@apotheon.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 06, 2010 at 03:19:31PM +0200, Ross Cameron wrote: What system board revision does you're Thinkpad have? You can use CPU-Z (http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php) to check on this. That looks like a handy tool. Is there a version that will run on FreeBSD? Something like sysutils/dmidecode maybe? Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] -cpghost. -- Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: freebsd install from floppy
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2010 09:54:38 + From: Matthew Seaman m.sea...@infracaninophile.co.uk Subject: Re: freebsd install from floppy To: per...@pluto.rain.com Cc: questi...@freebsd.org, plukaw...@gmail.com Message-ID: 4b92265e.5030...@infracaninophile.co.uk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 06/03/2010 09:26:22, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: I seem to remember something about the floppy images being dropped because few current (or even recent) systems have a floppy drive at all, much less a bootable one. Yeah, but the floppy disk drive was already obsolete 10 years ago. It's just taken this long for it to fall down dead. Good riddance to it. Why would anyone want an unreliable, slow and tiny capacity device when you can get GiB capacity USB sticks everywhere nowadays? Correction: Apple stopped selling computers with floppy drives about 10 years ago. The floppy drive is not obsolete because there is still no viable replacement that has the same (or better) functionality. The problem with USB sticks is that they don't have user-accessible write-protect tabs. If you plug a USB stick into a compromised system, it is tainted. Secure Digital Cards have a write-protect tab, but Secure means secure against copying (Copy Protection for Recordable Media), making them inappropriate for known good filesystem images. I have started using CD-ROM booting to install FreeBSD. The problem with CD-R images is that any tweaks to the disk image require burning a new disk. Regards, James Phillips Recent Slashdot exchange about exactly this issue: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1565678cid=31302916 __ Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet Explorer® 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Flash viewer for FBSD
On 3/6/10, C. P. Ghost cpgh...@cordula.ws wrote: On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 9:25 AM, Polytropon free...@edvax.de wrote: On Sat, 6 Mar 2010 09:03:58 +0100, Sabine Baer bae...@t-online.de wrote: Well, it is, indeed. Me I am very glad beeing able to do eg linux-opera -display :0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhmf4l4OxNw since I live in a Windows free zone at home. Well, there's always youtube-dl -a for that. Just for YT I don't need Flash. That's true. I love youtube-dl too, as it helps me keep a local .flv copy, even for videos that have been removed for one reason or another. However, there are other video sites like dailymotion. What downloader do you use for these? clive, and it can pass url directly to mplayer, so it works with lynx and elinks too. (vlc and xine should also work ...) clive also allow to pick quality of video. And remember, youtube-dl is a hack. It can break anytime YT changes its embedding. I wished YouTube would switch to HTML5, or at least added this as an option. The need, to illustrate that, is often nothing more than a useless barrier built by people who don't seem to know better. As I said before, most things that Flash can do could be achieved with standardized (!) and free means. And often, Flash is (ab)used to do idiotic things like simply providing animated buttons. I've talked with the IT department of a company recently who had to switch from perfectly usable barrier-less HTML to Flash. Actually, the IT guys didn't want to, but their management was adamant. The main reason wasn't buttons or little animations, but something much more mundane: the graphics design company they hired to create their new corporate identity insisted that the only way to get a 100% pixel-precise layout was with Flash... and management fell for it. Basically, they wanted to duplicate their glossy brochures 1:1, and didn't care about reduced usability and accessibility. Incredibly silly move, but their company, their decision. With the upcoming HTML 5 standard, there's even a chance that Flash will be ignored by the rest of the world sooner or later. HTML 5 isn't the problem, that will be easy to implement. It's about picking the right video codec. There's no high quality codec available that is both ubiquitous in hardware, and unencumbered by patents. Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... -cpghost. -- Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: freebsd install from floppy
On Mar 6, 2010, at 12:44 PM, James Phillips wrote: Correction: Apple stopped selling computers with floppy drives about 10 years ago. The floppy drive is not obsolete because there is still no viable replacement that has the same (or better) functionality. While I think floppy drives are still useful for BIOS updates and the like, it's not just Apple that isn't selling machines with floppy drives any more. Go to HP or Dell and try to buy a new machine with a floppy drive-- they don't sell them anymore, either... The problem with USB sticks is that they don't have user-accessible write-protect tabs. If you plug a USB stick into a compromised system, it is tainted. Some USB flash drives have write-protect switches: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820141486 Regards, -- -Chuck ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Flash viewer for FBSD
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 1:07 PM, C. P. Ghost cpgh...@cordula.ws wrote: And remember, youtube-dl is a hack. It can break anytime YT changes its embedding. I wished YouTube would switch to HTML5, or at least added this as an option. Actually this option exists http://www.youtube.com/html5 The problem is Opera and Firefox do not support h.264 decoding but you can use Chromium for that. http://wiki.freebsd.org/Chromium http://code.google.com/p/chromium-freebsd8/ It would be nice if Firefox used the plugin mechanism to do the decoding. With something like ffmpeg there would be no problem. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Debug still in kernel
On 3/6/10, Jason Garrett kinged...@gmail.com wrote: Hello all, I am currently tracking RELENG_8_0. I did a csup last night and noticed that debug is still enabled in the GENERIC kernel. I thought debugging was supposed to be left out once the 8 branch went RELEASE? Can anyone shed light on this subject? What makes you think debugging is still on? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Debug still in kernel
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 13:51, Tim Judd taj...@gmail.com wrote: On 3/6/10, Jason Garrett kinged...@gmail.com wrote: Hello all, I am currently tracking RELENG_8_0. I did a csup last night and noticed that debug is still enabled in the GENERIC kernel. I thought debugging was supposed to be left out once the 8 branch went RELEASE? Can anyone shed light on this subject? What makes you think debugging is still on? From /usr/src/sys/i386/conf/GENERIC makeoptions DEBUG=-g# Build kernel with gdb(1) debug symbols options PREEMPTION # Enable kernel thread preemption why are these still in GENERIC after release? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Debug still in kernel
On 3/6/10, Jason Garrett kinged...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 13:51, Tim Judd taj...@gmail.com wrote: On 3/6/10, Jason Garrett kinged...@gmail.com wrote: Hello all, I am currently tracking RELENG_8_0. I did a csup last night and noticed that debug is still enabled in the GENERIC kernel. I thought debugging was supposed to be left out once the 8 branch went RELEASE? Can anyone shed light on this subject? What makes you think debugging is still on? From /usr/src/sys/i386/conf/GENERIC makeoptions DEBUG=-g# Build kernel with gdb(1) debug symbols options PREEMPTION # Enable kernel thread preemption why are these still in GENERIC after release? I can confirm debug symbols is still in the kernel, but that is most likely used for backtraces and debugging when a kernel panic happens. This is instead of asking the user who had a kernel panic to rebuild with debugging to debug it. PREEMPTION as I understand it should have been removed from the kernel config file. It should have been removed from the GENERIC config file after RELENG_8_0_RELEASE tag is made. I don't know what your tag is when you update. Perhaps you're copying or using a config file from the BETA or RC days? I'll help until I can't help no more with your issue. --Tim ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Suitable laptop for FreeBSD?
On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 18:06, Aaron Lewis aaron.lewis1...@gmail.com wrote: Bas v.d. Wiel wrote: Aaron Lewis wrote: Umm... that's incorrect. Maybe you mean ATI doesn't supply closed drivers for FreeBSD (although they do have Linux drivers, I think). Well , the opensource ati driver doesn't work for me , no matter linux or FreeBSD , it crashes I've read the documents , and found my ATI is on the support list , but it just don't work ;-( Are you saying the R400 has both integrated and discrete video cards? Lenovo's web site doesn't seem very oriented to telling potential customers details about their newer computers. -Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota USA I bought it in china , you'll had to know R400 has lots of types , mine is 2784a18. Of course you can choose to buy an energy-save laptop , which has on independent Video Cards , Just an build-in intel Video Card , it's better for power saving someway. It's very strange that your machine should crash so early in its boot process. I don't own any ATI hardware so I'm not entirely sure on this, but my impression is that booting into the console should work with just about any kind of video hardware. Does Windows actually work with the ATI card? I'm beginning to suspect broken hardware here.. Bas ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org Yeah , when i enable Switchable Video Card in BIOS , my Linux won't start X11 , fglrx driver doesn't allow me to do so , it tell me directly to disable this feature , and must turn to Discrete Card Mode. And if i do so , after boot menu , right after the progress bar , ( not the boot loader ) i don't know how to describe this , it just hangs at prompt when i press enter. I think it's because my ATI Video Card is kind of special , it has Switchable Video Card ability , some new features , even ATI official linux driver can't really handle this , and for BSD , it even don't boot. -- Best Regards, Aaron Lewis - PGP: 0xA476D2E9 irc: A4r0n on freenode I also have a Dell D630, but I have not tested with FreeBSD yet. I think after reading this thread I will wipe the M$ off the drive and attempt to get FBSD working according to my needs. I will also make a section at http://laptop.bsdgroup.de/freebsd/ with my findings. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Java in FF3.6
According to /usr/ports/UPDATING the Java plugin does not work in FF3.6. Is this a Java issue, a FireFox issue or a FreeBSD issue? I just noticed this today as I was going through looking through it because of the thread about upgrading from perl5.8 to perl5.10 (the instructions in UPDATING don't seem to be working for me, but that's not a concern as I'm not looking to upgrade to 5.10, yet). I didn't know if this question belongs here or on the -ports mailing list, but I am not x-posting. I'll just start a discussion there depending on how I'm informed here. -- Yours In Christ, PIT Emails are not formal business letters, whatever businesses may want. Original content copyright under the OWL http://owl.apotheon.org Please do not CC me. If I'm posting to a list it is because I am subscribed. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Debug still in kernel
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 14:18, Jason Garrett kinged...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 14:12, Tim Judd taj...@gmail.com wrote: On 3/6/10, Jason Garrett kinged...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 13:51, Tim Judd taj...@gmail.com wrote: On 3/6/10, Jason Garrett kinged...@gmail.com wrote: Hello all, I am currently tracking RELENG_8_0. I did a csup last night and noticed that debug is still enabled in the GENERIC kernel. I thought debugging was supposed to be left out once the 8 branch went RELEASE? Can anyone shed light on this subject? What makes you think debugging is still on? From /usr/src/sys/i386/conf/GENERIC makeoptions DEBUG=-g# Build kernel with gdb(1) debug symbols options PREEMPTION # Enable kernel thread preemption why are these still in GENERIC after release? I can confirm debug symbols is still in the kernel, but that is most likely used for backtraces and debugging when a kernel panic happens. This is instead of asking the user who had a kernel panic to rebuild with debugging to debug it. PREEMPTION as I understand it should have been removed from the kernel config file. It should have been removed from the GENERIC config file after RELENG_8_0_RELEASE tag is made. I don't know what your tag is when you update. Perhaps you're copying or using a config file from the BETA or RC days? I'll help until I can't help no more with your issue. Tim, Thanks for the quick responses. I downloaded 8.0 RELEASE iso disc 1 from ftp yesterday and did a fresh install, I then used csup to catch RELENG_8_0 made world, built and installed kernel then installed world without problems. sun# uname -ar FreeBSD sun.blah.blah 8.0-RELEASE-p2 FreeBSD 8.0-RELEASE-p2 #0: Sat Mar 6 10:24:07 UTC 2010 r...@sun.blah.blah:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC i386 This is totally a fresh system installed from .iso yesterday. If I can provide more info, please tell me. --Tim Anyone else? I don't mind commenting this stuff out of my own kernel, but maybe a PR is needed here? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Debug still in kernel
Tim Judd wrote: makeoptions DEBUG=-g# Build kernel with gdb(1) debug symbols options PREEMPTION # Enable kernel thread preemption why are these still in GENERIC after release? I can confirm debug symbols is still in the kernel, but that is most likely used for backtraces and debugging when a kernel panic happens. This is instead of asking the user who had a kernel panic to rebuild with debugging to debug it. It creates a 'kernel.debug' compiled with -g as well as a normal kernel. You can use 'make install.debug' to install the debug kernel. It doesn't have any impact on the normal kernel at all. PREEMPTION as I understand it should have been removed from the kernel config file. It should have been removed from the GENERIC config file after RELENG_8_0_RELEASE tag is made. I don't know what your tag is when you update. Perhaps you're copying or using a config file from the BETA or RC days? PREEMPTION has nothing to do with debugging at all. It allows threads that are in the kernel to be preempted by higher priority threads. It helps with interactivity and allows interrupt threads to run sooner rather than waiting. See /usr/src/sys/conf/NOTES Bye, Frank ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Java in FF3.6
On Sat, 06 Mar 2010 14:30:28 -0600 Programmer In Training p...@joseph-a-nagy-jr.us articulated: According to /usr/ports/UPDATING the Java plugin does not work in FF3.6. Is this a Java issue, a FireFox issue or a FreeBSD issue? I just noticed this today as I was going through looking through it because of the thread about upgrading from perl5.8 to perl5.10 (the instructions in UPDATING don't seem to be working for me, but that's not a concern as I'm not looking to upgrade to 5.10, yet). I didn't know if this question belongs here or on the -ports mailing list, but I am not x-posting. I'll just start a discussion there depending on how I'm informed here. Please check out this URL: http://www.java.com/en/download/faq/firefox_newplugin.xml I believer that the FreeBSD version of Java is several versions behind that. Therefore, it would appear to be a FreeBSD problem. -- Jerry ges...@yahoo.com |=== |=== |=== |=== | Sturgeon's Law: 90% of everything is crud. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
[ANSWERED] Re: Java in FF3.6
On 03/06/10 16:57, Jerry wrote: snip Please check out this URL: http://www.java.com/en/download/faq/firefox_newplugin.xml I believer that the FreeBSD version of Java is several versions behind that. Therefore, it would appear to be a FreeBSD problem. I'll just wait for FreeBSD to update their Java. I'm not recompiling everything currently linked against the Java I have installed (to include OOo, which I would just upgrade to 3.2 from what I have). Too much hassle. Thanks (that link needs to go into UPDATING with the FF3.6 entry). -- Yours In Christ, PIT Emails are not formal business letters, whatever businesses may want. Original content copyright under the OWL http://owl.apotheon.org Please do not CC me. If I'm posting to a list it is because I am subscribed. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Debug still in kernel
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 17:06, Mikhail Goriachev mikha...@navalradio.clwrote: Jason Garrett wrote: On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 14:18, Jason Garrett kinged...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 14:12, Tim Judd taj...@gmail.com wrote: On 3/6/10, Jason Garrett kinged...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 13:51, Tim Judd taj...@gmail.com wrote: On 3/6/10, Jason Garrett kinged...@gmail.com wrote: Hello all, I am currently tracking RELENG_8_0. I did a csup last night and noticed that debug is still enabled in the GENERIC kernel. I thought debugging was supposed to be left out once the 8 branch went RELEASE? Can anyone shed light on this subject? What makes you think debugging is still on? From /usr/src/sys/i386/conf/GENERIC makeoptions DEBUG=-g# Build kernel with gdb(1) debug symbols options PREEMPTION # Enable kernel thread preemption why are these still in GENERIC after release? I can confirm debug symbols is still in the kernel, but that is most likely used for backtraces and debugging when a kernel panic happens. This is instead of asking the user who had a kernel panic to rebuild with debugging to debug it. PREEMPTION as I understand it should have been removed from the kernel config file. It should have been removed from the GENERIC config file after RELENG_8_0_RELEASE tag is made. I don't know what your tag is when you update. Perhaps you're copying or using a config file from the BETA or RC days? I'll help until I can't help no more with your issue. Tim, Thanks for the quick responses. I downloaded 8.0 RELEASE iso disc 1 from ftp yesterday and did a fresh install, I then used csup to catch RELENG_8_0 made world, built and installed kernel then installed world without problems. sun# uname -ar FreeBSD sun.blah.blah 8.0-RELEASE-p2 FreeBSD 8.0-RELEASE-p2 #0: Sat Mar 6 10:24:07 UTC 2010 r...@sun.blah.blah:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC i386 This is totally a fresh system installed from .iso yesterday. If I can provide more info, please tell me. --Tim Anyone else? I don't mind commenting this stuff out of my own kernel, but maybe a PR is needed here? In addition to what others have said: http://forums.freebsd.org/showpost.php?p=66508postcount=43 Regards, Mikhail. Thanks all, while I disagree that the debug line should be in the RELENG_8_0 branch, (useful for STABLE maybe and necessary for CURRENT) I guess I'll have to deal with what I'm dealt. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Non-maskable interrupt trap
Hi, Fot the first time in years I had a kernel panic in FreeBSD (8.0-ST). While playing a flash movie in Firefox (3.6), everything just locked up and only resetting helped. After the reboot it wrote a corefile in /var/crash/ which is unfortunately too big to read by any text editor. The trap number is 19 and the current process was 11. Hope that someone has an idea what has caused this. I just can't imagine that a flash plugin is able to crash FreeBSD. Regards, Marco -- Most people have a furious itch to talk about themselves and are restrained only by the disinclination of others to listen. Reserve is an artificial quality that is developed in most of us as the result of innumerable rebuffs. -- W. S. Maugham ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
mailing list archive as mbox
hi there, what are the steps i need to perform to get a copy of the entire mailingslist archive of lets say freebsd-current@ in mbox format? cheers. alex ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Non-maskable interrupt trap
Marco Beishuizen mb...@xs4all.nl wrote: Fot the first time in years I had a kernel panic in FreeBSD (8.0-ST). While playing a flash movie in Firefox (3.6), everything just locked up and only resetting helped. After the reboot it wrote a corefile in /var/crash/ which is unfortunately too big to read by any text editor. Corefiles are binary, not usefully readable with anything text oriented. See the Handbook section on Kernel Debugging for how to get a backtrace from it. ... Hope that someone has an idea what has caused this. I just can't imagine that a flash plugin is able to crash FreeBSD. One possible cause is a driver bug in some obscure corner case that the flash player tried to use. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Updating ports was Flash viewer for FBSD
* Chuck Swiger (cswi...@mac.com) wrote: Yes, it's not enough. When you upgrade the base OS to a new major version (ie, going from 7.x to 8.x), the system libraries get bumped to a new version, but any libraries coming from ports are still linked against the older version of the frameworks. If you don't touch anything, backwards compatibility for 7.x will continue to work fine, but as soon as you start installing something new or upgrade any port, you run into the situation where executables are linked against two different versions of libc.so (etc) and they break. For all practical purposes, if you upgrade to a new major version, then you must rebuild all installed ports. Thank you for your suggestions. I should mention that recently ``cdrecord'' is broken in 8.0. It ran pretty well in 7.2. After I updated the ports and rebuilt, it works fine. But it takes very long time to rebuild all ports. Main problem is KDE, big big ports. Okay, I shall do it, when I have time. Things going into -CURRENT may not be well tested, but anything being merged back to -STABLE ought to be. Humans make mistakes, but I can't recall more than two or maybe three significant issues over a decade tracking -STABLE, and these were fixed in a matter of hours. If you do care about this level of precision, you should be building to a test platform and then running sanity checks for whatever your machines do before upgrading production boxes, anyway. Beyond that, however, you ought to consider tracking the security branch, ie, RELENG_8_0, rather than 8-STABLE aka RELENG_8, as the former does include recommended changes like security bugfixes, but avoids merging in anything which has not been well tested. I understand what you said. But I always have no time to do so. Normally, I concentrate on my work rather than tracking new patches. * Robert Huff (roberth...@rcn.com) wrote: Chuck Swiger writes: And if you have the time and knowledge to not have to do this ... you're probably not involved in the discussion to begin with. :-) I upgrade ALL FREQUENT used ports and ALL related libraries required by them. Excluding GUI stuffs. When I want to update *ALL* these kinds of things (2-3 years once), I wget iso images, in stead of cvsup/csup. I always do this way since 5.4 without any problems excepted ``cdrecord'' as mentioned earlier. Thanks, Pongthep ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: mailing list archive as mbox
In the last episode (Mar 07), Alexander Best said: hi there, what are the steps i need to perform to get a copy of the entire mailingslist archive of lets say freebsd-current@ in mbox format? Go to ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/doc/mailing-lists/archive/ where you can download weekly gzipped archives of all the mailing lists since their creation. -- Dan Nelson dnel...@allantgroup.com ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Updating ports was Flash viewer for FBSD
On Sun, 7 Mar 2010 11:30:04 +0700, Pongthep Kulkrisada ptkris...@gmail.com wrote: But it takes very long time to rebuild all ports. Main problem is KDE, big big ports. Okay, I shall do it, when I have time. You can consider using pkgadd -r to install binary packages. Those are quite synchon with the ports tree (as they are centrally built from the ports tree). I understand what you said. But I always have no time to do so. Normally, I concentrate on my work rather than tracking new patches. What about using freebsd-update? It delivers patches in binary form for the OS, so you don't need to make world and kernel, and if you're following the 8.x-RELEASE-p track, you don't have to recompile your whole software ports - as it has been mentioned, this is only needed if you update the major version number (e. g. 7.2 - 8.0). I upgrade ALL FREQUENT used ports and ALL related libraries required by them. Programs like portmaster can be really helpful here. Excluding GUI stuffs. Oh yes, the joy if you want to have a german OpenOffice version, where you could run pkg_add -r de-openoffice in the past... :-) I know what you mean, I try to avoid compile orgies whenever possible, at least on my home system. On servers which usually don't have GUI stuff, but services that need updates often due to security considerations, it's not a big deal.) When I want to update *ALL* these kinds of things (2-3 years once), I wget iso images, in stead of cvsup/csup. The ISO images are tied to a specific OS version, and they can be used with it without problems. You can run into trouble when upgrading the OS, and then try to install software from a CD that expects another OS version. Using pkg_add -r offers the same comfortability as installing software from local CD or DVD, but it's usually up to date and fits better to the ports tree - which is useful when you install software both from source and from binaries. I always do this way since 5.4 without any problems excepted ``cdrecord'' as mentioned earlier. Which has been explained. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Flash viewer for FBSD
On Sat, Mar 06, 2010 at 09:25:41AM +0100, Polytropon wrote: On Sat, 6 Mar 2010 09:03:58 +0100, Sabine Baer bae...@t-online.de wrote: Well, it is, indeed. Me I am very glad beeing able to do eg linux-opera -display :0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhmf4l4OxNw since I live in a Windows free zone at home. Well, there's always youtube-dl -a for that. Just for YT I don't need Flash. The need, to illustrate that, is often nothing more than a useless barrier built by people who don't seem to know better. OK, I really didn't know youtube_dl (and clive someone mentioned in the thread). So, thanks a lot. I youtube-dl-ed my puff pastry examle. It took me 5 minutes and 11.69M space on diks but then I was able to look at it using mplayer. Fine. Same with clive. Fine too. [...] If a web designer abuses (!) Flash to raise a barrier, to make content unavailable, then I am surely not his target audience. That's his decision, and I accept it. (By the way, barrier-free web and thinking about how disabled people can participate on informations is something that needs an educated point of view and some intelligence to consider it. Still, there are web developers who can't provide this, and so can't their work.) Yes, that's all very true. I remember, when I had linux-fc4 installed and flashplugin7, I tried to look at a video on the site http://www.hr-online.de. The only result was you haven't the latest version of Adobe's Flash Player. I wrote an email to them and got an answer (that's remarkable, not 'normal', I wrote 2 complaints about accessibility to given contact addresses at European community sites and didn't get any answer) but it wasn't helpful. Well, this site and http://news.bbc.co.uk as well are barrier-free so I can use them with lynx only and the videos are a surplus. But I am in the target audience of www.hr-online.de at least. BTW, neither clive nor youtube-dl (sic!) can download a video from those sites. Of course, it is the fault of the 'web designers' ignoring those who deny using 'quasi standard OS' and 'quasi standard applications'. But I'm tired of sitting in front of my monitor and thinking 'if they don't want me to look at their content, it's their misfortune'. Sabine -- Nun hat Client B ein überaus schlaues Tool laufen, welches augen- blicklich Einbruch! Zonenalarm! Hülfäää!!! schreit, was ziemlich blöde ist, ... (TOT in TOS) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Flash viewer for FBSD
On Sun, 7 Mar 2010 07:29:48 +0100, Sabine Baer bae...@t-online.de wrote: OK, I really didn't know youtube_dl (and clive someone mentioned in the thread). So, thanks a lot. I youtube-dl-ed my puff pastry examle. It took me 5 minutes and 11.69M space on diks but then I was able to look at it using mplayer. Fine. Same with clive. Fine too. The option youtube-dl -a is fine, too, because it creates an AVI file on the fly, so you can even share downloaded videos with persons who don't have the luck of being able to use mplayer (with its ability to play every format). It's even possible to combine youtube-dl and mplayer in a way that playing the video starts along with the download, and because the download is linear (to the video itself), you can watch while downloading (thanks to mplayer being able to play incomplete video files), even fullscreen is possible. I remember, when I had linux-fc4 installed and flashplugin7, I tried to look at a video on the site http://www.hr-online.de. The only result was you haven't the latest version of Adobe's Flash Player. I wrote an email to them and got an answer (that's remarkable, not 'normal', I wrote 2 complaints about accessibility to given contact addresses at European community sites and didn't get any answer) but it wasn't helpful. Yes, the latest version, a common problem. What a luck that things like HTML are standard; just imagine a message like This page is optimized for HTML 8. You currently have HTML 7 installed. The page cannot be displayed at all. :-) That's the difference between standards and what you called quasi standards (which are no standards at all, in my opinion). Well, this site and http://news.bbc.co.uk as well are barrier-free so I can use them with lynx only and the videos are a surplus. Personally, I don't have much fun viewing pages in lynx, but it is an excellent validator to find out how, for example, blind persons see (in the meaning of content reception, of course) web pages. On very modern and optimized web pages, they don't see anything. But I am in the target audience of www.hr-online.de at least. [...] But I'm tired of sitting in front of my monitor and thinking 'if they don't want me to look at their content, it's their misfortune'. The keyword here is target audience. If you consider yourself to be in the target audience of a certain service, you need to fulfill requirements to participate on this service, e. g. having a driving license in order to be part of the motorized traffic. And if HR-online requires you to run the right OS and the right programs, then you don't have much choice. So if the usage of a certain family of formats intendedly excludes users of many operating systems... Furtunately, Flash is quite usable on FreeBSD, allthough there are more than one form to run it (linux binary, OpenSolaris in a VM, Windows version in wine). So there usually are ways to see the content that is not intended for us. :-) And I may add that I am thankful to the developers who invest their time in order to provide an ongoing support for Flash. So maybe it always lasts some time until a FreeBSD based system is able to run the lastest Flash stuff, but finally it's possible. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Updating ports was Flash viewer for FBSD
Hi Polytropon, Firstly, thanks for your suggestion. * Polytropon (free...@edvax.de) wrote: You can consider using pkgadd -r to install binary packages. Those are quite synchon with the ports tree (as they are centrally built from the ports tree). I checked /var/db/pkg; I have 464 ports installed on my system (including X). I would probably not do so. What about using freebsd-update? It delivers patches in binary form for the OS, so you don't need to make world and kernel, and if you're following the 8.x-RELEASE-p track, you don't have to recompile your whole software ports - as it has been mentioned, this is only needed if you update the major version number (e. g. 7.2 - 8.0). Once I used binary upgrade from 6.2 - 6.3. The source tree was still 6.2 while the system was 6.3. I know there are no problems with the system. But it is *untidy*, I don't want to. I upgrade ALL FREQUENT used ports and ALL related libraries required by them. Programs like portmaster can be really helpful here. Yes, it is what I am expecting. Thank you. I read the handbook. There are 2 choices i.e. portmanager and portmaster. I am now thinking which one is better. I must also check time and disk space required to build all these ports. Oh yes, the joy if you want to have a german OpenOffice version, where you could run pkg_add -r de-openoffice in the past... :-) I know what you mean, I try to avoid compile orgies whenever possible, at least on my home system. On servers which usually don't have GUI stuff, but services that need updates often due to security considerations, it's not a big deal.) I have nothing to do with Office suite. I might probably not do so, thanks. The ISO images are tied to a specific OS version, and they can be used with it without problems. You can run into trouble when upgrading the OS, and then try to install software from a CD that expects another OS version. I have never installed any softwares from CD/DVD. I install from CD only when I want to wipe out everything. And install a new fresh system. Using pkg_add -r offers the same comfortability as installing software from local CD or DVD, but it's usually up to date and fits better to the ports tree - which is useful when you install software both from source and from binaries. If I choose between packages and ports, I opt ports. As previously mentioned ``portmaster'' or ``portmanager'' should be helpful. Please give some comments, which one is better. I read from handbook; but I have never used it. I don't know so much in this area. It is system specific and not part of the standard (POSIX or SUS). Note: I'm just a hobbyist not pro. :-) Thanks, Pongthep ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Updating ports was Flash viewer for FBSD
On Sun, 7 Mar 2010 14:29:57 +0700, Pongthep Kulkrisada ptkris...@gmail.com wrote: I checked /var/db/pkg; I have 464 ports installed on my system (including X). I would probably not do so. The pkg_add utility is especially useful when building a new installation from scratch, because it additionally automatically installs dependencies. For example, pkg_add -r xmms would finally even install X from precompiled binaries, which is much faster than compiling everything by hand (or even by using portmaster). But for some things, there aren't packages available, and if you need to compile something, trouble may start. Once I used binary upgrade from 6.2 - 6.3. The source tree was still 6.2 while the system was 6.3. I know there are no problems with the system. But it is *untidy*, I don't want to. In such a case, you have to use freebsd-update for the system AND c(v)sup for the sources, to keep them in sync. Some programs that you can compile from ports do rely on system sources. Yes, it is what I am expecting. Thank you. I read the handbook. There are 2 choices i.e. portmanager and portmaster. There are even more, but those two seem to be the most popular ones. I am now thinking which one is better. I have used portupgrade / portinstall in the past, but I think portmaster really is the way to go, at least for me, and for now. In /usr/ports/UPDATING, instructions on how to solve certain problems are given for portupgrade, too. It can furthermore handle creating bianry packages (-p), if you want to transfer something you've built from one system to another, as well as an option to NOT compile, but use binary packages (as pkg_add -r) instead (-P and -PP). There are other options that are powerful when processing all installed ports in an automated manner. I must also check time and disk space required to build all these ports. Those are valid considerations. Time is the less important, let the update run while you sleep, the computer won't notice that you're not infront of it. :-) I have never installed any softwares from CD/DVD. I install from CD only when I want to wipe out everything. And install a new fresh system. Okay, I misunderstood. By the way, that's my common way of doing a fresh install, too: Boot from CD, install base system, configure basic things, update sources and ports, and regarding on the usage, use freebsd-update + pkg_add or make for system and ports. If I choose between packages and ports, I opt ports. If your system is not older than a few years, I would say the same. For older systems where you just can't afford compiling everything (e. g. 24h for just kernel + world), then using precompiled binaries is much more comfortable. As previously mentioned ``portmaster'' or ``portmanager'' should be helpful. Please give some comments, which one is better. Well... portupgrade isn't bad, but I think portmaster is better, especially because it doesn't involve a huge scripting language as a dependency. And as far as I've experienced, it can do everything needed. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
