Re: recommendation(s) for new computer
From owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org Mon Apr 30 05:55:04 2012 From: Chad Leigh Shire.Net LLC c...@shire.net Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 04:52:35 -0600 To: FreeBSD Mailing List freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: recommendation(s) for new computer On Apr 30, 2012, at 4:41 AM, Erich Dollansky wrote: - Enermax Platimax 600W I do not know about your location but at mine power supplies have the tendency to have a short life due to lightning strikes in the area. Get a cheaper model but buy two. I just ran into this problem but did not have a second one for the affected machine. The new one fits only upside down into the box with all the consequences. no. no. no. Get a quality power supply. And get a Brick Wall. www.brickwall.com Bric k Wall surge suppressors are real surge suppressors, not the fake things you buy in the store for $25 with $0.10 worth of sacrificial MOVs that degenera te over time. If you have a bunch of 'sensitive' gear, also look at a Tripp-lite voltage conditioner. that gear, and and a lot of other Tripp stuff comes with an insurance coverate (in five figures) that will replace gear -behind- the Tripp device that gets damaged. Tripp does use 'sacrificial' devices, but I've never lost any gear 'behind' one, nor had a 'false postivie'. I've had several units that did sacrifice themselves, and in each case, I lost other gear that was -not- on the suppressor. Lightning strikes within 100' are no fun! :(( ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: UFS Crash and directories now missing
Alejandro Imass a...@p2ee.org wrote: On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 11:49 PM, Erich Dollansky wrote: On Monday 30 April 2012 02:02:41 jb wrote: Alejandro Imass ait at p2ee.org writes: ... Back to theory on how the http-proxy jail 'swallowed' all the other jails including the basejail. A theory that contains assumptions which are, unfortunately, unsupported by any factual evidence. Just like _every_other_ theory you have advanced to date. FACT: It is a virtual certainty that something operating -outside- any jail environment is what did the deed. Available evidence to date is that you 'fixate' on a particular _remote_ possibility -- *without* knowledge of what it would take for that scenario to come to pass -- making a sh*tload of 'assumptions' along the way (many of which are contrary to reality), and offer that as 'the explanation' for events. Given that EzJail uses a single basejail and links/mounts stuff in the child jails it would seem plausible (regression?) that somehow any jail could access other jails' files, Demonstrating, yet again, that you do not understand how jails work. :(( or that _maybe_ in an event of crash the nullsfs mounts confuse the system somehow when fsck restores or the journal is recovered. Demonstrating, yet again, that you do not understand what nullfs is, how it works, or that it is totally -irrelevant- to fsck and/or journaling. Hint: nullfs is merely a 'path translation' mechanism -- it affects _only_ 'file open' syscalls. fsck doesn't _touch_ nullfs. Hint; journaling is an add-on to the UFS filesystem. nullfs doesn't know what journaling is. Journal recovery doesn't _touch_ a nullfs. A competennt, not stupid, sysadmin would know these things. And not 'remove all doubt' (in the words of Abraham Lincoln), by raising such nonsense questions. Whatever the cause, it actually happened and I have already ruled out just about anything. It doesn't seem to have been an attack, it surely wasn't me, and EzJail author agrees it was not the EzJail scripts. So maybe nullfs and journaling, or crash + nullfs + journaling, could cause something like this to happen? Postulating the right combination of _unrelated_ failures, virtually *anything* can happen. cf. Nasal Monnkeys. It has already been demonstrated how the (im-)probability of such an event relates to the age of the universe. Maybe journal has some confusion on restoring the nullfs view of the directories or something after bad crash like this one?? Short answer: No chance. Again, if you had any understandinng of how UFS, and nullfs for that matter, works -- not to mention how disk I/O works inside the kernel, you wouldn't be embarassing yourself by your _continued_ raising of what are, to put it charitiably, such 'patently ridiculous' questions. You can engage in all the 'unfounded speculation' you want to, but you are simply -not- going to determine what happened. IF there was a systemic fault, you have already destroyed the forensic evidence trail that _might_ have allowed a qualified expert to run it down, *if* you could afford to have such an analysis done. (middle five figures is a starting point for such an analysis.) Absent _multiple_ reports of like events, *WITH* enough detail in the reports to have a reasonable chance of identifying a 'pattern' of events leading to the failure, *OR* the existance of a -reliable-, =repeadable=, method of inducing the failure, this simply isn't going to go anywere. Absent any of those things, it is a 'freak' event, *PROBABLY* (read 'virtually certain') caused by human error (despite your claim of the 'impossibility' of that factor) in some form. If you insist on 'knowing' what happened in any future instance of single putatively 'abnormal' events, you will need to change to a MIL-SPEC 'B2' (or higher) rated O/S, with active mandatory access controls, 'security labels' with multi-level, non-hierarchical, security enabled, audit logging of -every- system call, etc. This also requires a staff position of 'security officer', which is _separate_and_distinct_ from 'system administrtor'. I strongly suspect that you cannot afford the required hardware and software for this type of 'solution'. The 'underlying cause' almost certainly falls into the class known as PEBKAC. (The current admin has demonstrated an inability to accurately report the state of his system -- that at least one thing he previously asserted to be true was _not_, in fact, the case. It is *HIGHLY*LIKELY* that _that_ 'exception' to the claimed state is =not= the only such violation on that system.) That there was an action where there was a difference between 'that which was intended', and 'what it really did'. Such things are almost -impossible- for the perpetrator of the action to identify -- they 'know' what they did, and read the act as 'doing what they meant it to do',
Re: Performance and mouse problems
Le 29/04/2012 ? 00:58:01+0200, Jerome Herman a écrit I was afraid this would happen. And I fear it is just the begining. Why you say that ? I assume you did not create any custom hald rule. Did you ? I have one, but I try with him (I use since hal existe on BSD) and without him. For the same result. The pad in the laptop working but not the usb mouse. In fact I don't think the cpu load is connected to this problem. I already send a email to freebsd-stable. Well but that not a solve the Xorg don't see the mouse. The first thing to do is to add Option AutoAddDevices Off In your ServerLayout section of xorg.conf. Then restart X and try to plug a mouse again. It may result in your mouse not working in X, but at least it should stop your computer from using all it's CPU trying to map the mouse. If indeed the CPU load does not reach skyhigh levels when you plug a USB mouse, we will be able to conclude that there is a DBus/hald problem. Also could you do the following - Mouse unplugged : # /usr/local/etc/rc.d/hald stop # /usr/local/sbin/hald --daemon=no --verbose=yes /tmp/hald_debug.log 21 # dbus-launch lshal /tmp/dbus_hal_debug.log 21 - plug mouse # dbus-launch lshal /tmp/dbus_hal_debug.log 21 And post the content of both log files ? That should help in understanding what is going on. In the worst case there are mecanism that will keep HAL from tinkering/probing usb mouse. Here : the hald log file : http://dl.free.fr/rqLTgOvPS (I put some blank ligne juste before I plug the mouse) the dbus log file before I plug the mouse : http://dl.free.fr/iDgqyLgu6 and the dbus log file after I plug the mouse : http://dl.free.fr/lZuRadJFx I'm not qualified to said if it's hald/dbus problem, FreeBSD-Stable problem or both. I don't think it's a FreeBSD-Stable problem because in the dmesg we see the mouse plug ugen5.2: vendor 0x413c at usbus5 ums1: vendor 0x413c Dell Premium USB Optical Mouse, class 0/0, rev 2.00/0.09, addr 2 on usbus5 ums1: 5 buttons and [XYZT] coordinates ID=0 Regards. JAS -- Albert SHIH DIO bâtiment 15 Observatoire de Paris 5 Place Jules Janssen 92195 Meudon Cedex Téléphone : 01 45 07 76 26/06 86 69 95 71 xmpp: j...@obspm.fr Heure local/Local time: lun 30 avr 2012 13:22:45 CEST ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: recommendation(s) for new computer
hI, On Monday 30 April 2012 17:52:35 Chad Leigh Shire.Net LLC wrote: On Apr 30, 2012, at 4:41 AM, Erich Dollansky wrote: - Enermax Platimax 600W I do not know about your location but at mine power supplies have the tendency to have a short life due to lightning strikes in the area. Get a cheaper model but buy two. I just ran into this problem but did not have a second one for the affected machine. The new one fits only upside down into the box with all the consequences. no. no. no. Get a quality power supply. And get a Brick Wall. www.brickwall.com Brick Wall surge suppressors are real surge suppressors, not the fake things you buy in the store for $25 with $0.10 worth of sacrificial MOVs that degenerate over time. This only helps when the over voltage comes via the power line. A lightning strike nearby is a different story. And get a good UPS while you are at it as well. I have an APC and it still does not help when then lightning comes down in the neighbourhood. This is plain physics. The current is induced behind the UPS might be enough to kill the power supply. It never killed any of my machines though. I even have had one a switch burning after the neighbour's house got hit by a lightning. While the switch was really burned, some of the connected machines survived with no damage at all while some others have had the network interface killed. The UPS was an online version and no other damage via the power supplies has occurred. As I said before, this strategy only makes sense in an environment with a lot of thunderstorms and lightning strikes. Erich ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: firefox is marked as broken?
On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 23:29:40 -0600 (MDT) Warren Block articulated: On Mon, 30 Apr 2012, Jong-Beom Kim wrote: I have installed FreeBSD 9.0 last night and so far, so good except firefox installation. it simply doesn't build with this message. # make install clean === firefox-12.0,1 is marked as broken: does not build. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/ports/www/firefox. is it just me or is firefox really broken currently? Turn off the PGO option. Maybe it is just me, but trying to live by the KISS principal as much as possible, wouldn't it have been easier, and saved a lot of chatter to have just disabled the option and removed it from the Makefile? A splash screen could have been used to alert the user that the option was turned off. -- Jerry ♔ Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. __ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: UFS Crash and directories now missing
Hi, On Monday 30 April 2012 18:36:08 Robert Bonomi wrote: Alejandro Imass a...@p2ee.org wrote: That simply *ISN'T* going to happen -- not without a -lot- more evidence than any individual can provide from a single =unrepeadable= incident. ok, I am not the original poster but let me tell me of an experience here I have had. I reported also something extremely strange. Of course, the comments I have gotten have been the same as here. But what happened then? I do not know why but somebody found a race condition in the affected system. There is no fix available yet. With other words, no matter how strange things are, I encourage people to report it. Not with the real hope to get a solution at the spot. But with the chance that somebody who knows the code well and has some strange feelings takes a look. I also encourage my clients to do the same for our products and services. Erich ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: recommendation(s) for new computer
Hi, On Monday 30 April 2012 18:22:18 Robert Bonomi wrote: If you have a bunch of 'sensitive' gear, also look at a Tripp-lite voltage conditioner. that gear, and and a lot of other Tripp stuff comes with an insurance coverate (in five figures) that will replace gear -behind- the Tripp device that gets damaged. Tripp does use 'sacrificial' devices, but I've never lost any gear 'behind' one, nor had a 'false postivie'. I've had several units that did sacrifice themselves, and in each case, I lost other gear that was -not- on the suppressor. Lightning strikes within 100' are no fun! :(( hey, they are real fun! Didn't you have damage caused by induction into cables? I never bothered to get shielded network cables which would have saved me some money. Wireless has a plus point here. Erich ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Performance and mouse problems
On Mon, 30 Apr 2012, Albert Shih wrote: Le 29/04/2012 ? 00:58:01+0200, Jerome Herman a écrit I was afraid this would happen. And I fear it is just the begining. Why you say that ? I assume you did not create any custom hald rule. Did you ? I have one, but I try with him (I use since hal existe on BSD) and without him. For the same result. The pad in the laptop working but not the usb mouse. In fact I don't think the cpu load is connected to this problem. On one computer here, only one of the touchpad or external mouse works unless moused is enabled in rc.conf. That's without hal, but worth trying even with hal. Just moused_enable=YES.___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Performance and mouse problems
On 30/04/2012 13:39, Albert Shih wrote: Le 29/04/2012 ? 00:58:01+0200, Jerome Herman a écrit I was afraid this would happen. And I fear it is just the begining. Why you say that ? Short answer : I am a proud member of the HAL and DBus are evil group. Middle answer : HAL and DBus were made, maintained and tuned with pretty much nothing but Linux in mind. As a result they hardly play well with other OS, and will tend to play worse as the time goes by. In fact general opinion is that HAL never truly worked under Linux either, it is now officially deprecated. I assume you did not create any custom hald rule. Did you ? I have one, but I try with him (I use since hal existe on BSD) and without him. For the same result. The pad in the laptop working but not the usb mouse. In fact I don't think the cpu load is connected to this problem. I already send a email to freebsd-stable. Well but that not a solve the Xorg don't see the mouse. The first thing to do is to add Option AutoAddDevices Off In your ServerLayout section of xorg.conf. Then restart X and try to plug a mouse again. It may result in your mouse not working in X, but at least it should stop your computer from using all it's CPU trying to map the mouse. If indeed the CPU load does not reach skyhigh levels when you plug a USB mouse, we will be able to conclude that there is a DBus/hald problem. Also could you do the following - Mouse unplugged : # /usr/local/etc/rc.d/hald stop # /usr/local/sbin/hald --daemon=no --verbose=yes /tmp/hald_debug.log 21 # dbus-launch lshal /tmp/dbus_hal_debug.log 21 - plug mouse # dbus-launch lshal /tmp/dbus_hal_debug.log 21 And post the content of both log files ? That should help in understanding what is going on. In the worst case there are mecanism that will keep HAL from tinkering/probing usb mouse. Here : the hald log file : http://dl.free.fr/rqLTgOvPS (I put some blank ligne juste before I plug the mouse) the dbus log file before I plug the mouse : http://dl.free.fr/iDgqyLgu6 and the dbus log file after I plug the mouse : http://dl.free.fr/lZuRadJFx I'm not qualified to said if it's hald/dbus problem, FreeBSD-Stable problem or both. I don't think it's a FreeBSD-Stable problem because in the dmesg we see the mouse plug ugen5.2:vendor 0x413c at usbus5 ums1:vendor 0x413c Dell Premium USB Optical Mouse, class 0/0, rev 2.00/0.09, addr 2 on usbus5 ums1: 5 buttons and [XYZT] coordinates ID=0 Ok looking at your files, it does not appear to be a hal/dbus problem either : The device is correctly probed and registered with DBus, known as /dev/ums1, and the x11 driver is mapped to mouse which should be correct. For one reason or another, xorg is not catching/processing the info. Can you send the Xorg log ? Just wait until X is up and then plug the mouse. I am curious to see what happens inside xorg. Regards. Jerome Regards. JAS ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: UFS Crash and directories now missing
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 7:36 AM, Robert Bonomi bon...@mail.r-bonomi.com wrote: Alejandro Imass a...@p2ee.org wrote: On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 11:49 PM, Erich Dollansky wrote: On Monday 30 April 2012 02:02:41 jb wrote: Alejandro Imass ait at p2ee.org writes: ... [...] A competennt, not stupid, sysadmin would know these things. And not 'remove all doubt' (in the words of Abraham Lincoln), by raising such nonsense questions. Whatever the cause, it actually happened and I have already ruled out just about anything. It doesn't seem to have been an attack, it surely wasn't me, and EzJail author agrees it was not the EzJail scripts. So maybe nullfs and journaling, or crash + nullfs + journaling, could cause something like this to happen? Postulating the right combination of _unrelated_ failures, virtually *anything* can happen. cf. Nasal Monnkeys. OK, I tried to be patient with you and tried to keep my composure and nettiquete against your insistence to insult me and by doing so, damaging the good spirited nature of this mailing list, FreeBSD and Open Source in general. And sorry beforehand to my fellow co-listers, and other nice people here, that I have to do this publicly but there is a limit and I am sure many of you have been just waiting for this to happen. I mean, I have had a couple of altercations here and there with a few smart asses, but I have *NEVER* seen such an obnoxious little shit in the more than 14 years I have been participating in ANY mailing list. This used to be one of the most enjoyable and helpful lists and it is people like you who draw people away from sharing and trying to help one another. What is your problem man? Who do you think you are? Who gives you the right to go patronizing and insulting people, and by the way using these ridiculous quotes, like some stupid little jerk, relying on other people's wisdom quotes instead of your own words. Instead of being frontal, you are probably frustrated with your own little techy life that you have to take out your frustration on other people. I find you intoxicating to this list and to this community, no matter how smart you are, if half the stuff you say is even accurate or true. You don't contribute anything except to the degradation of the FreeBSD ambiance and to drive people away, and from sharing. You don't have the right to do that. I honestly love FreeBSD and this community and I am not going to let you ruin that for me or anyone else here. Why don't you take the time to read your posts and see that you propose nothing, so why even bother to participate? What are you trying to prove? If you were so smart as *you believe* you are, you would be helping instead of trying to prove something by your condescending attitude. The very fact that you need to use this attitude is proof of your insecurities, and your need to bully other people, but not me, Sir. I have been in this too long. I am surely not going to take this shit from you man so if you don't have anything positive to say, just shut up and let other people help each other, without being scared of being insulted or patronized. I am surely not afraid of you and I am sick and tired of your attitude, so if no one else here has the balls to tell you off, I will. This is the kind of shit that drives people away and refrains people from participating and sharing experiences and knowledge, and I'm not going to let you do that, to me or any one else here. This is not *your list* nor do you have any special right here, you are just like everybody else, just not very helpful or fun. This attitude will get you nowhere but deeper into your creepy little world. -- Alejandro Imass ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: UFS Crash and directories now missing
On 04/30/2012 08:38 AM, Alejandro Imass wrote: just not very helpful or fun. This attitude will get He is helping,you need to learn how UFS, jails, nullfs, journaling, disk I/O and other stuff work. I have been following this thread and i must admit I also need to learn more on those subjects.:-) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: UFS Crash and directories now missing
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 8:22 AM, Erich Dollansky erichfreebsdl...@ovitrap.com wrote: Hi, On Monday 30 April 2012 18:36:08 Robert Bonomi wrote: Alejandro Imass a...@p2ee.org wrote: That simply *ISN'T* going to happen -- not without a -lot- more evidence than any individual can provide from a single =unrepeadable= incident. ok, I am not the original poster but let me tell me of an experience here I have had. I reported also something extremely strange. Of course, the comments I have gotten have been the same as here. But what happened then? I do not know why but somebody found a race condition in the affected system. There is no fix available yet. With other words, no matter how strange things are, I encourage people to report it. Not with the real hope to get a solution at the spot. But with the chance that somebody who knows the code well and has some strange feelings takes a look. I also encourage my clients to do the same for our products and services. Thanks Erich for pionting this out. This is the FreeBSD USERS LIST, not the elite exchange. I I was posting this on some expert list like the kernel list or some other more technical list I could understand the attitude, but this is the user's list. We are NOT required to know the details, just share experiences and try to help one another, not put other people down for trying to solve our issues as users. What is really frustrating is that it actually happened and I try to do everything by the book. I don't do any fancy or strange things, so something caused these directories to be moved through NORMAL use of the system, regardless if some people believe it or not, I could care less. It happened, period, and if someone wants to help fine, if not they should just shut up. Thanks again for pointing this out. We are the users, we are the people that keep this project alive and share the good. -- Alejandro Imass ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: UFS Crash and directories now missing
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 1:03 PM, Edward M eam1edw...@gmail.com wrote: On 04/30/2012 08:38 AM, Alejandro Imass wrote: just not very helpful or fun. This attitude will get He is helping,you need to learn how UFS, jails, nullfs, journaling, disk I/O and other stuff work. I have been following this thread and i must admit I also need to learn more on those subjects.:-) Oh, please! He's not helping anyone. He's just being an obnoxious prick that thinks that by pointing out a lot of technical blabber and some cheap philosophical posé, he's going to gain some sort of place amongst his peers, and you are just trying to do the same by sucking-up, siding with him and seconding an simply unacceptable attitude in a community of real peers. If you truly know your stuff you don't have to go putting people down and patronizing them to show off. It is only when you go over the top, trying to prove something that your are actually just showing your insecurities and just plain ignorance. Why don't you google and read my posts over the years when I help other people in things they don't know, and tell me if it's remotely close, or if I patronize people. I might go tell someone to RTFM but I would never go and try to put someone down just to show off that I know a lot. Furthermore, this is a user's list, not a deeply technical one. I don't have to read the fsck source code to use FreeBSD or participate on this list. If you are indeed an expert you try to help other people, or at least give the other person the benefit of the doubt. If you have really followed the thread, all I have done is try to find some explanation for a strange behavior of the system under normal use. It hung, and some directories were moved, period. I have posted some ideas to share with other people expecting some insight and maybe similar experience from other users, which there probably are many, but many times afraid to speak up and avoid getting insulted. I don't take that crap from anyone and much less in a community that I have come to love and respect. And it's all about that: RESPECT and you can either learn it the easy way or the hard way, but I will tech respect one way or another. -- Alejandro Imass ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: UFS Crash and directories now missing
On 30 April 2012 07:36, Robert Bonomi bon...@mail.r-bonomi.com wrote: A competennt, not stupid, sysadmin would know these things. And not 'remove all doubt' (in the words of Abraham Lincoln), by raising such nonsense questions. A competent sysadmin would ask questions when they don't know the answer bringing up possibilities they thought about. A stupid sysadmin would yell at someone asking a question claiming they should have known the answer. -- Eitan Adler ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: UFS Crash and directories now missing
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 1:23 PM, Eitan Adler li...@eitanadler.com wrote: On 30 April 2012 07:36, Robert Bonomi bon...@mail.r-bonomi.com wrote: A competennt, not stupid, sysadmin would know these things. And not 'remove all doubt' (in the words of Abraham Lincoln), by raising such nonsense questions. A competent sysadmin would ask questions when they don't know the answer bringing up possibilities they thought about. A stupid sysadmin would yell at someone asking a question claiming they should have known the answer. Thank you Eitan! I am admittedly limited in the use of the English language and many times frustrated not to be able to redact such beautifully and to the point. -- Alejandro Imass ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: UFS Crash and directories now missing
On 04/30/2012 10:22 AM, Alejandro Imass wrote: Oh, please! He's not helping anyone. He's just being an obnoxious prick that thinks that by pointing out a lot of technical blabber and some cheap philosophical posé I guess i was going according to the fact that i have followed his suggestions on a problem i was having and i was able to find the cause and solved the problem. :-) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: UFS Crash and directories now missing
Alejandro Imass ait at p2ee.org writes: ... If you have really followed the thread, all I have done is try to find some explanation for a strange behavior of the system under normal use. It hung, and some directories were moved, period. I have posted some ideas to share with other people expecting some insight and maybe similar experience from other users, which there probably are many, but many times afraid to speak up and avoid getting insulted. ... Well, I try to help only, so I hope I do not get insulted ... I could become vicious :-) Here it is. You said you have your jail env on a separate disk. I looked at problem reports for nullfs and there are quite few. Hierarchical Jails NOTES You said you have your jail env on a separate disk. I looked at problem reports for nullfs and there are quite few. http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr-summary.cgi?category=severity=priority=cl ass=state=sort=nonetext=nullfsresponsible=multitext=originator=release= As a matter of fact I just mounted a nullfs but was not able to unmount it (device busy) - a Google search shows it as a problem reported for many many years. Nullfs does not seem to be stable. Anyway, I found one PR http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=kern/147420 that is about troubles with jails, nullfs, UFS, and NFS. Synopsis: [ufs] [panic] ufs_dirbad, nullfs, jail panic (corrupt inode) Take a look at this paragraphs: ... After two more failures, I now found the offending inode ... ... As one point, I found the inode in a directory which usually is mounted for an (ez-) jail via nullfs. This proves that problems with jails, nullfs, and fs corruption are possible. So, they can not be excluded up front in your case too because nullfs is just a simple path translation. jb ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: UFS Crash and directories now missing
Quoth Eitan Adler on Monday, 30 April 2012: On 30 April 2012 07:36, Robert Bonomi bon...@mail.r-bonomi.com wrote: A competennt, not stupid, sysadmin would know these things. And not 'remove all doubt' (in the words of Abraham Lincoln), by raising such nonsense questions. A competent sysadmin would ask questions when they don't know the answer bringing up possibilities they thought about. A stupid sysadmin would yell at someone asking a question claiming they should have known the answer. -- Eitan Adler ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org Best response in this thread so far. -- .O. | Sterling (Chip) Camden | http://camdensoftware.com ..O | sterl...@camdensoftware.com | http://chipsquips.com OOO | 2048R/D6DBAF91 | http://chipstips.com pgpPEnYYipOaV.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: UFS Crash and directories now missing
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 1:57 PM, jb jb.1234a...@gmail.com wrote: Alejandro Imass ait at p2ee.org writes: ... If you have really followed the thread, all I have done is try to find some explanation for a strange behavior of the system under normal use. It hung, and some directories were moved, period. I have posted some ideas to share with other people expecting some insight and maybe similar experience from other users, which there probably are many, but many times afraid to speak up and avoid getting insulted. ... I looked at problem reports for nullfs and there are quite few. Hierarchical Jails NOTES You said you have your jail env on a separate disk. Yes. I looked at problem reports for nullfs and there are quite few. http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr-summary.cgi?category=severity=priority=cl ass=state=sort=nonetext=nullfsresponsible=multitext=originator=release= As a matter of fact I just mounted a nullfs but was not able to unmount it (device busy) - a Google search shows it as a problem reported for many many years. Nullfs does not seem to be stable. Dirk Engling guessed that somehow nullfs was involved. Anyway, I found one PR http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=kern/147420 that is about troubles with jails, nullfs, UFS, and NFS. Synopsis: [ufs] [panic] ufs_dirbad, nullfs, jail panic (corrupt inode) Take a look at this paragraphs: ... After two more failures, I now found the offending inode ... ... As one point, I found the inode in a directory which usually is mounted for an (ez-) jail via nullfs. This proves that problems with jails, nullfs, and fs corruption are possible. So, they can not be excluded up front in your case too because nullfs is just a simple path translation. Up until yesterday (and Dirk's answer) I didn't look for specific references to nullfs, and today I was busy getting vicious myself ;) Thanks for pointing a plausible cause. What I have done so far is limit the offending jail to a specific cpuset and I wanted to add another disk to avoid contention with other jails. MySQL not only consumes the whole CPUs but also limits the whole drive, while it's doing some crazy full scan query on a very large database. I don't have any control of the code or the MySQL myself and the client said it's known problem with VTiger CRM and the way it implements some reports that I guess were not designed for the amount of data they are handling. I have already recommended they move to a dedicated server altogether because their system simply outgrew what we sold them. I really appreciate the time you dedicated to search for a possible explanation and at the very least it helps in taking some immediate steps to avoid it from happening again. Hopefully, someone with deep knowledge will find the root cause and a long-term fix. What is true, that if it happened to me, it can happen to anyone, so maybe your findings will help someone pin-point the problem and fix it. Thanks, -- Alejandro ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: UFS Crash and directories now missing
Alejandro Imass ait at p2ee.org writes: ... Thanks for pointing a plausible cause. What I have done so far is limit the offending jail to a specific cpuset and I wanted to add another disk to avoid contention with other jails. MySQL not only consumes the whole CPUs but also limits the whole drive, while it's doing some crazy full scan query on a very large database. ... I would strongly suggest that you file a PR for nullfs, with included reference to that PR#147420 I mentioned. There is enough of circumstancial evidence. I think there is a chance that a jail panic (corrupted fs or nullfs path translation) may be the cause of MySQL going bananas. Anyway, the more similar reports they receive the better a chance they will discover any problems, if any. It would be good if you read these sections: JAIL(8) Setting up the Host Environment - a potential for mixing up traffic of same services in host env and jail env. Jails and File Systems - multiple jails sharing the same file system can influence each other. Hierarchical Jails - jail names reflect the hierarchy, but jids on the other hand exist in a single space, and each jail must have a unique jid. BUGS NOTES JEXEC(8) BUGS (ref to JAIL(8), Hierarchical Jails) jb ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: UFS Crash and directories now missing
On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 13:23:40 -0400, Eitan Adler wrote: On 30 April 2012 07:36, Robert Bonomi bon...@mail.r-bonomi.com wrote: A competennt, not stupid, sysadmin would know these things. And not 'remove all doubt' (in the words of Abraham Lincoln), by raising such nonsense questions. A competent sysadmin would ask questions when they don't know the answer bringing up possibilities they thought about. A stupid sysadmin would yell at someone asking a question claiming they should have known the answer. I know I don't add anything substantial by the following statement, but allow me to post it anyway in addition to your statement: There is no problem in mentioning thoughts, possibilities and options. It's also not a problem to admit a lack of knowledge in certain fields (e. g. how UFS, journaling, nullfs and fsck do interact with each other). Things start to be problematic when conclusions are made out of untrue assumptions or expectations. It must be a system error, as I don't see a human error here. The problem is: don't see != doesn't exist, and of course != can't be proven. Such kinds of conclusion often lead into wrong directions. Of course it's hard to narrow down possibilities. A test bed with limited variables is neccessary to have. Also the proper tools and procedures of testing are important. That's the ONLY way to be sure - by eliminating one possibility after the other. What's being found in the end - and even if it's regarded unprobable from the beginning - must be the reason. Robert mentioned important things to consider. If you (unintendedly) destroy evidence for a forensic analysis of what happened (whatever it may be), you'll have a hard time finding out _what_ happened - except you can get it to happen again. In case of security breaches this is something you _don't_ want to risk IN PUBLIC just to be able to observe it. At this point, one could argue politeness vs. importance of arguments. From what I've seen on other lists, Robert's statements are still polite and full of things you can take as a start to what to additionally learn. You should concentrate on that essence. If you take the time to do your homework, you'll be better prepared _if_ such thing should ever happen again. Finding out _what_ has happened is very hard (which I admit), and maybe it's even impossible. You would have needed a more verbose auditing facility to find out what program (user) caused a mv-like syscall. Command logs can be altered, logged syscalls... yes, it's not impossible, but magnitudes _harder_ to remove trails. By the way, I can understand the frustration when something impossible happened and you never can _really_ say what it was, hoping it would not happen again. I've experienced such kinds of trouble myself. (That's why I'm on this list.) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: editor that understands CTRL/B, CTRL/I, CTRL/U
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 12:23:47PM +0200, Polytropon wrote: On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 17:01:56 -0600, Chad Perrin wrote: On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 08:01:13AM +0200, Polytropon wrote: On Fri, 27 Apr 2012 18:36:13 -0600, Chad Perrin wrote: On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 06:00:51PM -0400, Jerry wrote: I have been told by several people in HR that the trend to give preference to those all ready working as opposed to the unemployed is based on the philosophy that if no one else will hire them, then why should we. While we could argue whether that logic is flawed, it is never-the-less presently in use. However, it doesn't really pertain to entry level openings. With the glut of individuals entering the job market, for an applicant to not be proficient in the skills being advertised for by the prospective employer is just a waste of time. If the employer is looking for skill A and B, crying to him/her that you have skill C is just a waste of both your times. It *does* pertain to entry level positions, because (from what I have seen) most entry level positions come with an experience requirement of at least two years. But then this would invalidate ENTRY level. How exactly is an applicant supposed to get a job from that entry level pool when he doesn't have previous experience because he simply wants to ENTER that field of profession? Yes -- that is *exactly* the question that comes up. These are not jobs that are entry level in terms of requirements, even if they are entry level in terms of pay and actual skill required to do the job to a reasonable level of competence. Consider examples like first-level call center jobs that require a college degree and a couple years expericence, as pretty much the canonical example. Seems to exactly that way in Germany. I did talk to a HR guy last week and he explained that those requirements are typical. I think he wasn't honest about the reasons. One may be the continuous degrading of school education and the recent loss of quality in university education (due to european processes). This may be an honest reason, but it is not a good reason. It's the thinking that if schools are worse, you have to require more schooling to get the same effect -- and schools *are* getting worse, in large part to satisfy the demand for more formal education to get even the most mundane and easiest of skilled jobs, resulting in a vicious circle. People may honestly believe increasing the education requirement is a good answer to a bad problem, so that the problem is not their honesty but rather their reasoning. Obviously, if autodidacts with degrees are much better than anti-intellectual lumps on a log with degrees (and they are), autodidactism is of great value. In many cases, that value greatly outstrips the value of the degree itself, so that autodidacts without degrees are better than anti-intellectual lumps on a log with degrees. The approach to hiring that says we must require ever-more diploma carrying education on the resume selects for anti-intellectual lumps on a log quite often. Another reason might be that companies need to be _certified_ theirselves in order to get orders from other companies, and for that kinds of certification, it seems they have to show that they employ lots of highly qualified personnel in order to justify their prices. I have never seen a company that lists all of its tech support people and their degrees. In fact, the most I've ever seen for people in entry level positions is that they have CompTIA A+ Tech certifications, or something equivalent, which is easily acquired with a heavy weekend course and a single test. For autodidacts, you don't even need the coursework -- just get a $40 book and some practice test software. This might be worth some marketing, when a company can say all its support people are certified experts or specialists of some sort, but it's a heckuva lot less onerous than demanding bachelor's degrees in computer science just to get a twelve dollar per hour job answer the telephone and reading from a script, and more prone to selecting for autodidactism skills. Offer people flexible schedules if they want to take college classes while they're working, and you're even more likely to get people who can think critically, learn quickly, and do good work, because people who try to pay their way through college while working in a technical field are far more likely to be good at such jobs than people who breezed through college on a sports scholarship or parental support and have never really learned anything on their own. In fact, I'm generally of the opinion (based on my experience and what I've observed in others) that the only way to really learn anything useful in college is to be an autodidact, doing the coursework mostly to get a piece of paper and get ideas of *what* stuff to learn on your own time, rather
Re: UFS Crash and directories now missing
On 30/04/2012 19:23, Eitan Adler wrote: On 30 April 2012 07:36, Robert Bonomibon...@mail.r-bonomi.com wrote: A competennt, not stupid, sysadmin would know these things. And not 'remove all doubt' (in the words of Abraham Lincoln), by raising such nonsense questions. A competent sysadmin would ask questions when they don't know the answer bringing up possibilities they thought about. A stupid sysadmin would yell at someone asking a question claiming they should have known the answer. I must admit that Robert Bonomi tone was highly insulting for this list, and though I completely condemn the form of his post, I cannot say I disagree with the content. There are quite a lot of things that are wrong with Alejandro Imass' post and analysis. The fist thing is that he did not give is setup in one go. It took quite a while to figure what happened, what system he was using and how he was using it. At first he had to hard reboot an unresponsive system, then at reboot he would have lost all of his jail. Then it appeared that all the jails where inside another jail and that the unresponsiveness came from MySQL. Then we learn that all his daemons are inside jails. Then we learn that ftp-proxy is not. Then we learned that jail are not handled manually but through EZJail. Then we are told that the problem with MySQL is known and comes from a client using TigerCRM with a too much data. There are litterally dozens of little pieces of important knowledge all over the thread. And you have to read it all to make sure you have the global view. Not really a good start. It is OK to forget to mention a thing or two, discarding what you think is irrelevant to the problem at hand, but it is not OK to force people who are trying to help you to read 50+ posts to learn about the basics of your installation. What is even more irritating is the fact that Alejandro Imass ignores pretty much anything that would leads toward a human mistake. Most posts implying a possible bad use of jails/nullfs/ezjail are ignored or answered by a simple I have done everything by the book. Now from my experience someone with 6 servers, each containing multiple jails will not do everything by the book every time. It might be that Alejandro is exceptional, but it is more likely that at least one if not more of these jails were not made by the book. Nothing to blame anyone in here, we all get tired/bored/overconfident sometime - but refusing to admit the very possibility of a human mistake won't help at all in finding a solution. Reading the thread I realized that my suggestion that he might have over-used ln had been discarded as stupid, but the information came a lot later in answer to another post. Of course in the mean time I learned that he was using ezjail, which, if I had known earlier, would have made me wonder if he had not overused nullfs or ln. He furthermore discarded the possibility saying that he did not think that ezjail was using links, just nullfs. Well too bad ezjail is massively using links, at least for basejail, and sometime for port trees or perl setup depending which guide you are using as your reference. During the thread he pretty much bashed anyone who tried to tell him that no amount of jail/ezjail/nullfs/journal screw up could have resulted in the entire content of the jails being moved into another completely unrelated directory node. If one jail had moved it would already have been extraordinary, with a probability of it happening so cleanly that fsck would find nothing already magnitude of order above the chances of winning the national lottery. But all of them ? Not a chance. He finally admitted that he had very little knowledge about UFS and fsck, but still managed to do it in a quite offensive way. That was basically the point were I decided to stop to try to help him. I think others felt the same. This problem is quite interesting in itself, and I think a lot of the most talented people on this list would have been on it but were repelled by the attitude. On the other hand Alejandro Imass pretty much jumped on anything that would be a third party interaction. From someone hacking into his box to a potential nullfs bug that might result in a PR. Now the thing is that EZJail make use of the system immutable flag quite a lot for its config file, resulting in quite a lot of file being impossible to delete or move unless the box is running at kern_secure_level 0. This renders the whole jails moved on their own theory even more improbable. After so much ranting, I would feel bad not to try to help a little : Here are the facts : - In a jail, MySQL was grabbing all the CPU and making the box non responsive. This is due to TigerCRM making requests to a too huge database. - The jail was working - Unless all the data were in memory at this time (unprobable), it means that access path/nullfs/EZJail were OK at this time. - After a force reboot
which filesytems zfs needs to function
Hi, I was running FreeBSD 9.0 using ZFS with the following setup on one harddrive: *(5) Create appropriate filesystems (feel free to improvise!).* zfs create zroot/usr zfs create zroot/usr/home zfs create zroot/var zfs create-o compression=on-o exec=on-o setuid=off zroot/tmp zfs create-o compression=lzjb-o setuid=off zroot/usr/ports zfs create-o compression=off-o exec=off-o setuid=off zroot/usr/ports/distfiles zfs create-o compression=off-o exec=off-o setuid=off zroot/usr/ports/packages zfs create-o compression=lzjb-o exec=off-o setuid=off zroot/usr/src zfs create-o compression=lzjb-o exec=off-o setuid=off zroot/var/crash zfs create-o exec=off-o setuid=off zroot/var/db zfs create-o compression=lzjb-o exec=on-o setuid=off zroot/var/db/pkg zfs create-o exec=off-o setuid=off zroot/var/empty zfs create-o compression=lzjb-o exec=off-o setuid=off zroot/var/log zfs create-o compression=gzip -o exec=off-o setuid=off zroot/var/mail zfs create-o exec=off-o setuid=off zroot/var/run zfs create-o compression=lzjb-o exec=on-o setuid=off zroot/var/tmp from: http://www.aisecure.net/2012/01/16/rootzfs/ However I decided to reinstall FreeBSD such for thisparticular reason:-) to see if is possible to create lessfilesystems, if so, which ones in order for zfs to work properly or are the ones mention up above required, even though it says feel free to improvise? Hope gave all needed info:-) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: which filesytems zfs needs to function
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 7:20 PM, Edward M eam1edw...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I was running FreeBSD 9.0 using ZFS with the following setup on one harddrive: *(5) Create appropriate filesystems (feel free to improvise!).* zfs create zroot/usr zfs create zroot/usr/home zfs create zroot/var zfs create-o compression=on-o exec=on-o setuid=off zroot/tmp zfs create-o compression=lzjb-o setuid=off zroot/usr/ports zfs create-o compression=off-o exec=off-o setuid=off zroot/usr/ports/distfiles zfs create-o compression=off-o exec=off-o setuid=off zroot/usr/ports/packages zfs create-o compression=lzjb-o exec=off-o setuid=off zroot/usr/src zfs create-o compression=lzjb-o exec=off-o setuid=off zroot/var/crash zfs create-o exec=off-o setuid=off zroot/var/db zfs create-o compression=lzjb-o exec=on-o setuid=off zroot/var/db/pkg zfs create-o exec=off-o setuid=off zroot/var/empty zfs create-o compression=lzjb-o exec=off-o setuid=off zroot/var/log zfs create-o compression=gzip -o exec=off-o setuid=off zroot/var/mail zfs create-o exec=off-o setuid=off zroot/var/run zfs create-o compression=lzjb-o exec=on-o setuid=off zroot/var/tmp The filesystems are mostly arbitrary. You really only need the rootfs with appropriate directories underneath. The list provided is simply a concise idealized layout. -- Adam Vande More ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: UFS Crash and directories now missing
Hi, On Monday 30 April 2012 22:38:13 Alejandro Imass wrote: On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 7:36 AM, Robert Bonomi bon...@mail.r-bonomi.com wrote: A competennt, not stupid, sysadmin would know these things. And not 'remove all doubt' (in the words of Abraham Lincoln), by raising such nonsense questions. Postulating the right combination of _unrelated_ failures, virtually *anything* can happen. cf. Nasal Monnkeys. the more than 14 years I have been participating in ANY mailing list. oh, you have not been in many then. Or you missed the fine prints there. Just ignore it. Erich ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Invitation to APAC Oil Gas Deepwater Forum 2012 - KL
3 – 4 July 2012, Kuala Lumpur – Malaysia Spearhead Your Deepwater Equipment Integrity and Disaster Management Without A Hitch Dear Oil Gas Peer, “Deepwater oil-drilling is of extreme importance to us. How do we prevent incidents while drilling in 8316 feet of water, then deeper into the substrata?” Equip ourselves with proven technologies and strategize sustainable implementation mean everything to us. But how should we deal with it? Attend to meet the deepwater oil-drilling experts (representing their regional oil gas companies) and learn how to drill even deeper depths with the best practices: A Future Outlook on Deepwater Projects in Asia Dual Gradient Drilling Understand Pore Pressure Prediction for Drilling Operations Drilling in a High Pressure High Temperature (HPHT) Environment Increasing Drilling Tool Reliability in Harsh Environments Maintaining the Integrity of Your Topside and Deepwater Equipment Deepwater Drilling Hazard Management Well Integrity Management Increasing Deepwater Production Rates through Efficient Efficient Well Intervention The Roles of Remotely Operated Vehicles (ROV) and Autonomous Underwater Vehicles (AUV) Deepwater Operations Support Multiphase Metering – selecting the right system suited to your needs Flow Assurance Challenges in the Deepwater Environment Hydrate Re-mediation in Flow-lines Subsea Separation – key lessons from experiences Implementing Integrity Management for Deepwater Projects... and more Download Agenda! Forward this to your deepwater oil-drilling team members also. Best of Luck, Mr. Kyle Law kyle@fleminggulf.com Supported by: EU-Malaysia Chamber of Commerce and Industry ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
